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peaceful_heart_05

On a tight budget and need advice with no-till gardening

peaceful_heart_05
12 years ago

I am new to the forum. I have limited space and funds and would like to do some sort of no-till square foot style garden. I want to maximize the organic food production for my space. I'm not sure how to do this cheaply. For example, one recommendation was for a repeated application of grass clippings/chopped leaves/broken twigs as a mulch. However, I have no way of getting the quantities of these things he recommended, and I have no way to chop the twigs. What can I do in a city lot with a garden about 10X30? I will have little time and little water, so I really want to try mulching, etc. I'm already going to have to buy soil because mine is not good at all. There's gotta be a way! HELP!

Comments (23)

  • bi11me
    12 years ago

    Your post raises a lot of questions that need to be answered before we can set you on the path to success.

    What first comes to mind for me is how do you know your soil is no good? Do you have the results of a soil test?Was the space a garden before?

    what assets do you bring to the project? Do you have gardening experience and tools? How much time will you really have, and how fit are you?

    What is the garden location like - what city, how much sun, security issues? What do you hope to grow? Urban gardens have issues that are very different from what many of us deal with, and require different solutions.

    What are your motivations - why no-till square foot organic with heavy mulch instead of any other method?
    10x 30 is a pretty big garden for a beginner, you could grow a lot of food in that amount of space, but you have to do it in a way that will make the best use of every advantage that you can bring.

    There are no wrong questions, but the more detail you provide, the more likely it is you can get the right answers.

  • Kimmsr
    12 years ago

    There are sources of organic matter all around you, your yard, your neighbors, friends. Bil asks about a soil test which may be a good place to start and reading what Pat Lanza has to say about Lasagna Gardening may alos be of some since she developed that gardening method.
    Some idea of where in the United States you are will also help since soils, rainfall, and sun, vary widely over this vast land.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Lasagna Gardening 101

  • elisa_z5
    12 years ago

    I second (third?) the motion for a soil test, especially since you're in a urban area. You'll want to know what's up with your soil lead levels. If you do have high lead levels, you can do a couple of things to adjust them, and you'll treat some of your crops differently. (like peeling any root crops before eating.)

    Can you put a few buckets and plastic bags in your car (or borrow a car if you don't have one) and drive to the nearest horse stables? (horse back riding/lessons is often an urban thing.) While there, you can ask if they have any spoiled hay you could cart away for them.

  • maplerbirch
    12 years ago

    With a tight budget and little time, never attack the whole project 10X30 all at once. Don't be lazy and grab a shovel to loosen aerate and create a good root zone for your bedding plants. No-till, later.
    Protect them from rodents and cutworms and water them in with a sprinkler can with Miracle-Gro type fertilizer then start adding your organic material between the plants.
    Rotting material kills living tissue if it touches.
    That is the cheapest and quickest way to start with adequate results.

    Square foot gardening is a great concentrated start. All the "organic" rules tried all at once w/out understanding the whys and wherefore will ensure a 95% failure rate. Take it easy and enjoy your new garden.

  • Kimmsr
    12 years ago

    The soil test for lead, or other heavy metals, is quite expensive, which is why few people have it done. In urban gardens people should simply assume thee are heavy metals and should not eat what is grown in that garden without washing it quite well. Most of the tests we had done for heavy metals last spring around here (10 gardens in various locations in the city) that showed the presence of heavy metals but in low, but not prohibitive, numbers. Many of the urban gardens use raised beds, 1)because of potential contamination of thjese urban plots, and 2) because many of the gardeners are unable to get down to ground level anymore because of age, wheelchairs, joint problems.

  • elisa_z5
    12 years ago

    Kimmsr, the lead test doesn't have to be expensive: University of Massachusettes does the lead test, and tests for other heavy metals, along with NPK, micronutrients, CAC, etc, for $10.00 (the price just went up from $9.00). You do not need to be from Mass to get the test done.

    They also give you info about what to do to help lower the availability of the lead in the soil. Most important to note is that lead levels that are safe to grow vegetables in may not be safe for children to play on or pregnant women to garden in. This is because plants do not uptake lead very well, and because small children eat dirt by putting their hands in their mouths. I've helped my daughter with her garden in Jersey City, and my (pregnant) niece with her garden in Chicago, so we're dealing with this issue.

    Peaceful heart: about starting with organic rules and no till all at once and possibly facing failure, as posted above -- you will find many varying opinions on this board, but I figure that since you posted on the organic thread rather than the veg gardening thread, that you're pretty convinced of going organic from the start. Please be assured that many of us did start with all organic and no till, and had very successful gardens. I'd suggest looking at the threads where people have posted that they're planting for the first time and read them. There's lots of good info, and you'll have to sift it all through your own intuition to decide what is right for you. Teaming With Microbes is a great starter book, and a favorite of many people here. Also books or searches on the Lasagna Method.

    Have fun and happy growing!

  • elisa_z5
    12 years ago

    oops -- I guess that was CAC for "Cation Akschange Capacity."

  • Kimmsr
    12 years ago

    The CAC should be CEC or Cation Exchange Capacity.
    Miracle Grow is not an acceptable type of fertilizer for an organic gardner.
    If good planning of the garden is not done before planting and the gardener knows not enough about the soil the plants will be growing in there can be failure. However, advance planning can help prevent problems. Many people think all they need do is till some soil, drop seeds and they will grow, but if the soil does not have enough nutrients to supply those plants they will not grow very well at all and probably will not produce what is expected.
    scientia potentia est, Knowledge is Power. The more you know about your soil the better able you will be at growing plants in that soil and having a successful garden, even in the first year. It can take 3 to 5 years of work to get a soil into good condition, so that soil will grow good, healthy plants. However, taking the time to properly prepare the garden can help it produce well in the first year, not as good as it will in later years, but good and the plants will not necessarily be eaten up by insect pests or killed off by plant diseases. That does require getting rid of the concepts of "conventional" gardening of spraying synthetic fertilzers and pest controls everywhere "to prevent problems", materials that only exacerbate those problems by killing off the beneficial insects that can help a properly maintained garden.

  • lazy_gardens
    12 years ago

    A 10x30 bed is HUGE. It's better to have a small bed with a full layer of thick mulch and adequate soil than a skimpy layer across a larger bed.

    Start with a small bed - whatever you can fill with whatever organic material and decent topsoil. A kid's wading pool makes a good start.

    And start a compost collection ... get your friends and neighbors to contribute veggie trimmings, shredded paper, leaves, etc. If you can find a source of rabbit poop, excellent. Ask pet shops and schools if they have any.

    This year, build raised beds with whatever you can find and start layering your collected materials into them ... gardening is often a gradual process.

    Keep in mind that the bed needs to be narrow enough for you to plant, weed and harvest without stepping in it: 5 feet is about as wide as you can tend from both sides.

    Here is a link that might be useful: cheap raised beds

  • gardenlen
    12 years ago

    check our gardening process feature, might be some idea there for you?

    len

    Here is a link that might be useful: lens straw bale garden

  • Alyssa DeRonne
    12 years ago

    "Rotting material kills living tissue if it touches. "

    Is this really true? I thought, in being sustainable, that you should just leave the dead leaves/bad fruits of plants on the ground and work them back into the soil? I thought that the "rotting material" fed the living plants?

  • bi11me
    12 years ago

    Dead leaves and bad fruits are often the result of plant pathogens. Working them back into the soil only perpetuates the problem. Decomposing material can create ammonia and harm plant roots. This is why compost should be cured and green manures should be incorporated several weeks before planting.

  • Lloyd
    12 years ago

    This opens in a word document.

    The Importance of Compost Maturity

    Lloyd

  • leira
    12 years ago

    I wonder if Lloyd meant this link (though this is the PDF version):

    The Importance of Compost Maturity

  • Lloyd
    12 years ago

    Yes, yes I did. It worked when I tested it, honest. :-)

    Thx for fixing that leira.

    Lloyd

  • bi11me
    12 years ago

    I was surprised at that. I think of Lloyd as the link-master.

  • Alyssa DeRonne
    12 years ago

    Thanks :)

  • Alyssa DeRonne
    12 years ago

    I sent the link to some fellow Arizona gardeners and one replied that it isn't as important here to have mature compost... supposedly the desert makes things different?

    Here is what he said exactly:

    eh, i disagree, if you are putting the right things into your compost, ie, not cistrus in this climate, you can use non mature compost no problem in az, if you burry it under your soil, it will decompose quickly and helps growth! this is supposing of course you are not box gardening, which is less than ideal here anyway, ive also heard this can be good way to revitalize "bad soil" in less than a year.

  • lazy_gardens
    12 years ago

    yayanator ... define "mature" compost.

    We're so short on organic material that I dump grass straight from the lawnmower bag onto the veggie beds as mulch. The higher temps year-round, and the sandy soil, make the organic matter vanish extremely rapidly.

  • Alyssa DeRonne
    12 years ago

    I was referring to the link about mature compost that Lloyd posted.

  • Lloyd
    12 years ago

    There is (or ought to be) a distinction between unfinished compost and raw materials. Unfinished compost is stuff that has started to be composted in a composting setting but is not finished. Most reputable compost facilities would not allow unfinished compost off site due to the potential damage it could do. I've run the Solvita test just to make sure my 'post is good to go.

    If one is going to put the unfinished compost into a soil that isn't growing anything, or won't be for a period of time, then it doesn't really matter. I, however, will not let unfinished compost go off site. Period.

    Lloyd

  • kevinitis
    12 years ago

    I would say look in the newspaper or craigs list under fertilizer for people giving away horse manure. Arizona has a pretty active horse racing community who would probably be thrilled to give you some. Then I would mix that into your area and plant.