There's such a personal element of preference that it would be difficult to offer meaningful suggestions. My personal favorites can be narrowed down to these three: species -- C. violacea, multifloral (and hand's down best fragrance) -- C. Bactia Fireball 'Lea', and best Toshie Aoki clone -- Blc. Williette Wong 'The Best'.

Check out the link below to find ones that suit your fancy.

-Bruce

Here is a link that might be useful: Odom's Orchids cattleyas

Hey Sam, welcome back!

Your desires seem relatively broad. For us to make worthwhile suggestions, I personally think you really should narrow down what it is you're looking for. Flower color isn't the only thing to consider. What about:

What plant size are you looking for? (aclandiae=mini, warscewiczii=large!)
Flower shape/size? (Standard large classic cattleya flowers vs. avant garde modern hybrids?)
What kind of flower count are you looking for?
Specific preference for multiple bloomings a year, or indifferent to this consideration?
What conditions do you need it to survive in? (Sophronitis will not do well next to standard cattleyas! able/unable to provide a winter rest?)

Indiscriminant suggestions:
BLC Occnee 'Mendenhall'
BLC George King 'Serendipity'
SLC Hazel Boyd
Cattleya Angel Bells 'Suzie' AM/AOS
Brassavola nodosa
Bc? Richard Muller and its hybrids

Check out what Kawamoto has to offer this week on eBay. About a couple of hundred beautiful Cattleyas. If one of these does not blow your skirts up get a HD Phaelie.

http://shop.ebay.com/kawamotoorchids/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

Good searching, Nick

Hello.
I have to agree with Orchidnick. Kawamoto Orchids has some of the largest (plants) and best Cattleya's on Ebay. I usually bid on a few, just at minimum bids $9.99... But I heard that if you are looking for budded catts you could call them....(808)732-5808. I just talked with the sales manager Tani (Last week Monday), and I was asking if I could send a budded Catt out as a gift for someone... He took the phone order right then... Talked me into a couple of Large reds and a beautiful Large White, all plants were budded in 5" pots. He charged $20 per plant, 3 plants total + $22 for 2nd day Fed Ex... My friend then got it on Weds. in Florida. She then called me with great joy and excitement. All plants were large and in great shape, with plump buds that should bloom soon. I gave her the Ebay store link so she could admire the flowers.... So Sam, I would really check out the ebay store at Kawamoto Orchids. New listings are coming on usually Monday and Tuesday, I estimate 400 orchid auctions (usually about 150 cattleya's). They have to be my favorite orchid vendor on ebay, and I buy many orchids from all orchid ebay vendors. But most orchid vendors do not have the same quality, size, variety, and the most important thing too me SERVICE!!!
http://shop.ebay.com/kawamotoorchids/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

You are right about the size of the plants. I usually bid on 20 or more plants, sometimes as many as 40. Here is the strategy:

1) The plant must be one I don't have, it must be a desirable flower in my eyes and it must grow in my backyard. B nodosa does not, it gets too cold.

2) The plant must be bigger than the usual 4 growth seedling. Many have 6 to 9 growths and/or are in bud.

3) The caption must list 'You will get the actual plant shown' rather than 'Photo #2 is a sample plant'.

4) The price must be less than $12.99, usually its $9.99

Right as we speak I have bid on enough plants from them I would have to sell one of my grandchildren if I won them all. What invariably happens is that I get outbid on most or all of the plants, but usually one or more get left out of the feeding frenzy and I can pick them up for $1.00 or a little more than that in excess of the asking bid. Then you are looking at a real bargain. A full sized mature Cattleya in bud for under $12.99 plus a little shipping is a bargain in my books. They hold my plants until the first of the month, then I pay for all of last month's winnings and they get shipped at a reduced rate.

Having said all of this I hope I don't get meaningful competition but there are so many plants, there is room for anybody. I have bought from Kawamoto either in Hawaii, various orchid shows or from eBay for over 12 years, they are absolutely top of the line.

Nick

Sorry i guess it was kinda general wasn't it. well i need something medium sized no more than 3 feet, 2 feet would be ideal in growth. flower count more the merrier 2-5, Blooms.. Large classic semi modern show stoppers??? blooms once or twice a year. No winter rest. i always get those rest periods wrong LOL. thanks for the help and for helping me to help u help me.
that was a mouthful
P.S. hope this isn't to general or to specific! i will check out ur suggestions!
~Sam

Back to the Kawamoto eBay site. The description of the plant may say 'compact grower' which means the adult plant remains small. If plant size is not mentioned assume its the usual Cattleya size. He will specify the flower count and the flower size and state that the plant blooms twice a year if this is the case. If nothing is said about blooming frequency assume its once a year.

So, in 3 lines you have plant size, flower size, flower count, frequency of blooming and you also get a picture of the flowers and the actual plant you are going to get.

The rest is up to you, pick one you like. Before you actually bid go to his web page and check if the plant you have chosen is offered there. That will give you an idea of the maximum you should bid on the plan, it would be silly to bid $14.00 if the same plant is offered for $12 on the web page.

Nick

PS Kawamoto is not unique with this presentation, I'm just using him as a good example and also he has about 250 plus items for sale right now.

Take some time to peruse these vendors, as they are known for their cattleyas:

Hausermann
Carter and Holmes
Fenders Flora
Chadwick and Sons
Sunset Valley Orchids

Just some places for you to start :)

Thanks guys! i looked at Kawamoto and there are several i like! two i definitely want to bid on! one that i couldnt find this cheap as well everywhere else i have looked had it for 150 so i wanna jump on that!
Thank you all!

~Sam

I recommend BLC Golden Tang. It's intermediate in size, a vigorous grower, blooms several times a year, the flowers open golden and then gradually turn to a gorgeous rusty red. (or is it visa versa?) Anyway, it's beautiful. It's a Richard Mueler hybrid.

5 sites were suggested by terpguy. I have bought from C and H and know Sunset Valley Orchids quite well. All great places with different areas of expertise.

Fred Clark at Sunset excels with some of the species, most markedly the Mormodes, Catesetums and Bulbophyllums. He has great Cattleyas but not the variety of Hybrids that Kawamoto or Carmela have. You will pay more for his plants which also will be smaller. Excellent place for different stuff than what cattleya17 is looking for.

Carter and Holmes have a great variety of Catt hybrids including some expensive, famous, great clones. You will however pay more and get a smaller plant. Some people swear by them.

Hauserman has a great reputation, I have never bought from them. I do not know the other 2 (Fenders and Chadwick).

Now we are fine tuning this, for what cattleya17 is looking for its still Kawamoto and/or Carmela as far as I'm concerned.

Cattleya17, a word of warning, most of the action with these bids is in the last minute or two. You can place a bid and nothing will happening for 5 days then suddenly your out of it and its all over. Keep an eye on it notably as it ends. My son is getting married this week-end so I won't be able to play the last second game as I'll be sitting in a monkey suit at some mega restaurant eating dead chicken. - Oh well.

Nick

Nick! Congratulations on your sons Marriage! and you are absolutely right kawamoto is what i am looking for! i am currently watching 4 plants i have fell head over heels in love with! Thank you soo much for the help! Thanks all of you for the websites. i have looked at sunset valley and chadwick and they are to pricey for my taste but maybe one day for one of those splurge buys! lol. I have used ebay before i know how quick it goes! i find it exciting! thanks for the heads up Nick. Snipping i think they call it when you bid last second. its so gratifying when you win!!!!! Red Blooded Competition!

~Sam

Gold Country Orchids

They have lots and lots of Catts. Lots of art shades, lots of species, and plenty in between to fill the deviation from pink.

Hey Sam

Glad you found what you were looking for.

Next Sunday evening let us know what, if anything, you won from them. Right now I have minimum bids on 25 of them, have already been outbid on 4 and may end up with none to three when its all over on the week-end. Unless the price stays low, there will be no wins for me. I keep a list of their plants that I have to avoid duplication. Right now I'm growing 15 of their catt hybrids. Even if only one is added per week, that's still 50 plants over the course of a year. That's why I could care less if I end up with no plants in my shopping cart by the end of a bidding cycle. With patience and low pressure persistence in time I should have a nice collection of these 'FLUFFY CATTS', that's what I call these BLCs with their huge flowers. It's actually just a sideline for me as I'm much more interested in species.

I'll report on Monday what, if anything, I won this week.

By the way I love snipping, the adrenaline rush, the thrill of victory, the agony of defeat! Just one of the innocent little games to add spice to life. Once I was poised for the kill and clicked on 'one click bid' with 2 seconds to go only to be asked for my password! Grrrrr!

Nick

Nick I'm surprised with your long history in orchids you don't know the Chadwicks. One of my first orchid books was their "The Classic Cattleya". They are the ones who name a new hybrid catt after each First Lady and other well known personalities like the Queen of England. Their culture sheets on species cattleyas has been my Bible to get them to grow and bloom successfully.

Brooke

Chadwick has great stuff but I have long ago passed the point where I'm willing to pay their prices. I know you have to pay for quality which I'm willing to do for certain things, Cattleyas are not one of them. I have forked over major bucks for awarded D speciosums and will chase bizarre species. For me Cattleyas are just for fun, no offense to Catt buffs intended.

Nick

No offense taken from this species catt buff. For some reason I misunderstood your statement when you said you didn't know Chadwicks. I thought you meant you had never "heard" of them.

You may have my share of all the hybrid catts and all the Den speciosums you desire. Good luck with your auctions and your son's upcoming nuptials.

Brooke

You are right, I heard of them and may have looked at their sites in the past but have never bought from them. To each his own, there is room at the table for everyone, what a great hobby!

Nick

Right now it's nervous time for me. I have bid the minimum bid on way too many Cattleyas from Kawamoto's eBay site. The bidding ends Saturday noonish. If no one outbids me I'll have way too many plants in my win basket. If I get outbid on all of them I get nothing. So I want people to outbid me on most but not all of them, leaving me with a few great clones at minimum prices. Then repeat the process next week etc, etc, etc.

Wishful thinking, let's see what Saturday brings.

Nick

I am waiting till the last minute on a few so i can get it! monday my auctions end 2pm california time and 5 o'clock my time!

Most of mine end on Saturday, some on Sunday. I won't be near a computer either time so this time around I have just put in the minimum bid on a large number of plants and am prepared to get knocked out with $.50 bids. Right now I'm sweating it as if I win all of these plants I'll have to refinance my home to pay for them and since that's upside down under water it may prove difficult.

I'm sure people doing exactly what you are doing will decimate my win list in the last minute. I received the plants I won in September from him earlier this week. The only thing I can say other than 'WOW' is that his plants are twice as big as the photo makes them look. With most vendors its the opposite. If you collect enough plants he'll ship them in a wholesale fashion at great shipping rates. You need to ask but that won't work for 2 or 3 plants.

Nick

Hey Nick,
I've just heard word that the Kawamoto's are doing a local orchid show (Honolulu Orchid Society) this weekend. They left me a message that they might be a little slow in answering questions or sending invoices this weekend. Just thought you should know...

I let all my stuff sit and pay them in the beginning of every month. That reduces the shipping to a commercial cost for one package. Thanks for the heads up.

Nick

Help! I'm in the process of being killed. For the last 4 weeks I have bid on 5 to 10 Catts per week and sticking to minimum price only, would win one out of 10, loosing the rest to other bidders. This time I thought I would get at least 5 to 10 plants and bid on a whole lot expecting the same loss rate. So far I'm winning most of them, that was not my intention. Is everyone taking the long weekend off and not bidding?

If this keeps up I'll have to sell the gold fillings on my teeth to pay for all this!

Nick

I thought you couldn't watch because of your son's wedding?

Sorry there are consequences to hitting the buy button - enjoy your new purchases.

Brooke

Nick What are you going to do???? i got a Phal Bellina! didnt win any catts! im happy with this phal though. didnt get from kawamoto another ebay store. they ship in cycles and so my plant wont get here til oct 30th i will post pics then! i hope you come into some money soon! if you had the money it would be one of those problems you want! win every orchid you wanted! if only they were free!

PS how was the wedding? Fantastic i am sure!

The wedding was both elegant (Hilton, Torrey Pines Golf Course, ocean view garden) and Southern California casual (no jackets or ties please). By prior permission the most reverend preacher (I think my son met him at a nudie bar some time ago and they became friends) made not one, not two, but actually three snarky remarks about the bride's 7 months pregnancy. Had the audience in stitches. The ring bearer was their 70 lbs British Bull dog. My son had a small piece of hot dog in his pocket in case the brainless mutt lost his way.

A good time was had by all. The bride is the General Manager of another Hilton so we got all kinds of perks. Her parents are old stock Virginia but with a stiff upper lip they joined right in and had a blast.

What am I going to do about Kawamoto? What can I do, sign over my Social Security check for November and eat dog food for a month. The cost of the 36 plants I won is $366.64, a couple were $7 and change and a couple were $12. All minimum bid, not a penny more! Shipping cost is $257 minus 'Seller's discount' of $160 comes to a grand total of $463.64. That figures to $12.87 each for large Cattleyas, I have no problem with the per plant cost. The only problem is the total cost. I tried selling my body at the wedding but there was no interest so I'll just have to find it and fork it over.

I can't wait to get them at the end of the first week in November, should be quite a thrill to unpack them. Looking for a way in which I can block eBay like some people block Porn for their kids but have not managed that so far.

In the end it all will be good.

Nick

hello, Nick, I had a blast reading the "goings on " at your son's wedding. I felt as if i was there. you are a gifted storyteller.
i hope you will post pictures of your new winnings. I guess that it is mixed blessings for me that they don't ship to canada.. at those prices, i would be tempted to follow your bidding strategy.
sue

Paid for them yesterday, 30 Catts and 13 species are on their way to me and should arrive tomorrow. I'm as exited as I could ever be at Christmas!.

My kids gave me a brochure entitled:

"99 ways to cook Spam." Great, but Spam is much too expensive considering the hit I just took so I'll just substitute Dog Food for Spam, 3 meals a day for 30 days of Sept means I'll have 9 preprations left over for Dec since I put in 4 bids for species he is listing right now.

Will report tomorrow.

Nick

The Kawamoto plants arrived and I just finished unpacking them. Took me the entire afternoon. It was an over whelming experience, never before have I unpacked such a group of large, healthy, perfectly packed plants. A full sized garbage can is filled with newspaper, foam etc. The box they came in I'm not throwing away, its big enough that when I die they can bury me in it.

There were 10 species, 4 vandaceous types, healthy, in baskets. Of the other 6, one was in full bloom, 4 either in spike or had just finished blooming. Other than the Vandas these are all blooming sized plants (for real, not eBay talk).

Then there were 33 Cattleya types:

6 do not have sheaths or signs of previous bloom. Their average growth count is 8, they all look healthy and vigorous, one would think they should all be capable of blooming with the next growth but you never know.

The other 27 are just simply huge. All have either one or two sheaths, most of them budded. One large flower ready to burst, 3 faded flowers who were packed near the end of the bloom. Remember I bought these plants 3 weeks ago. Let me describe one which is representative:

Blc Varut Rittinum 'Varutglade'; $9.99 plus $2.79 shipping
11 pbulbs plus 2 new growths, 2 budded sheaths on the next to new growth. Growing out of a 5" pot.

Well, its one of the bigger ones, not all have 2 budded sheaths but where can you get a plant like that for less than $13.00. Keep in mind that the low shipping cost applies only to larger orders.

Overall a very positive experience, now comes the hard part. Leaving feedback on all of them, a pain in the butt. What's even harder is avoiding the 'Bid' button on current and future offerings. They are growing so well in their bark mix that I'm going to find a special place for them where they will not get watered frequently as is the case with my mostly mounted plants, and then next spring when the growth cycle starts I will bare root them. This after all is November and messing with them now after they were rudely yanked from their humid wonderful Hawaii climate would not be a good idea.

Most of these plants will yield a back division which I will make in the spring. A blooming 13 growth Cattleya will not mind having the back 3 bulbs removed so in essence I may well end up with twice as many plants. A strong back division may take 6 month to a year to grow again and 2 years to bloom but as long as taking it does not slow the main plant is is definitely worth it. Keep your eyes on the 'exchange' section.

What a trip!

Nick

Here we go again! Kawamoto just threw a bunch of very nice Catt hybrids on Ebay for $4.99 each. How can you resist that. It's going to be a choice of Xmas presents for my grandkids or new orchids. It would be a character building experience for them to cut back on gifts so I think orchids will get the nod.

Nick

Thanks a lot Nick!
You are helping me feed my addiction! ahh! I just checked out Kawamoto's ebay store and place a few bids (15 or so) on some great priced plants (under $10). I called them to ask if the starting price is correct, they said "we are trying something new". I couldn't believe they started some plants at .99 cents, with no reserve! I spoke with " Tani "and he said that Thanksgiving weekend is usually a slow weekend for them, because of all the Holiday traveling. I also asked if the plants would be okay to ship this time of year, and he said "no problem". They've been shipping everywhere from Alaska to New York with no problems. I've seen the way they have been packing (insulating the box or plants & sealing the box so that it is air tight), I do not think anyone packs as good as them. The amount of effort, care and all around professionalism is outstanding! Tani, also said if you think you need (40 degrees or below) a 60 hour heat pack that they could put one in the box for $3, or free with winning 3 plants or more "just let them know". He also reassured me that they "guarantee the plants" (believe me I needed no reassurance!). I've been really Happy with the Kawamoto's the past 4-5 months (and 150 or MORE of there plants). For anyone who has not tried them, You are really missing out! Here's a link to there Ebay Store... http://stores.ebay.com/Kawamoto-Orchids?_rdc=1

Happy Bidding @ Thanksgiving Everyone!

A new twist on Kawamoto Orchids. Not only do they have great plants, good prices and superb packing, they also have a sense of humor. Obviously they must read this forum as Reid Kawamoto seems to know that because of their hard to resist offerings on Ebay, my diet has been reduced to dog food and spam.

I just unpacked the December box from them and found not only the yummy plants one could drool over (30 odd total, 7 of them in full bloom) but also a can of Spam! It was expertly packed, of high quality and also in full bloom. Along with it a Xmas wish!

Thank you Reid and best of the holidays to you and your family, specially your father who started me with you guys 13 years ago. There will now be one less day I need to purchase food so I'll be able to buy one extra plant this coming month.

Nick

Ohh goodness i meant to tell you guys about how i made out with the ebay seller.... it was a huge mishap!!!! the plant was wilted and soft and all the roots were shriveled and the new root that was there was broken! i sent them pics of the plant and they did not give me my money or a new plant! but im over it. i got an awesome phal from Odoms!

Here is the Damaged Goods
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Soo Upsetting!!!! and i just didn't have the energy to fight.
After i watered it, i looked at the roots and i saw that mold started growing on the roots just after 3 days! so i pitched it in the trash. It just wouldn't perk up

Hi Sam. Happy to hear you got a nice healthy plant from Odoms. If your phal came from Royal Orchid Club (Bill Asia), you need to know that his plants are not for novices. He does have special instuctions on his website for reviving his plants. It's a shame you discarded your plant. I think with more time it would have fully recovered. I have a few phals that look worse than that and I fully expect them to recover and become healthy blooming plants.

Is your phal from Odom's also a bellina? You'll have to post pics when it blooms.

Sheila :)

maybe. Well no the phal i got from odoms was not a bellina. im gonna get that this summer though!!! i got a Phal. Sogo Yukidian Odoms Snowfall. you should look it up! its amazing!

the first buds are forming! its not making the classic cascade its known for but this is the plants second blooming in its entire life so i expect that to come with time. i am sooo excited to see its blooms! and you will definitely see the pics!!!! 5 inches! White!

i was having a bad bad week one of the worst of my life! and i really had no patience. and im sure if i got moss it would have been fine someday. then the mold showed up and i just gave up!

Looks to be very pretty! I'll watch for your photos. Odom sure has some very pretty phals. I love the alba violacea...others too. It would be difficult to choose just one!

I hope your bad times are over and you enjoy a wonderful holiday season :)

Bounce.

Why?

Why was it bounced??? So a new poster/forum member could get an answer to the same question of this OP.

This is just wrong.

The photos of this phalaenopsis bellina hybrid show green undamaged leaves and a healthy flower spike and roots. It was shipped bare root. It is healthy or it would not have a flower spike. There is nothing wrong with the plant other than it has not been rehydrated when received.

This plant needs to be soaked in a treatment solution when received. Prepare a treatment solution 'Dip' made from 2 gallons of rain or sodium free tap water. Add in half cup of brown sugar, a normal dose fertilizer that includes an amount of vitamin E solution, 1-2 teaspoons of your favorite root-stimulant. Leave it in the dip for an hour.

Remove and carefully lay the plants on newspaper in a dark location with high air circulation. I recommend you use a fan on the lowest setting. Do not allow the plants to come into direct sunlight. Gently turn the plant every 15 minutes until dry.

Once the plant is dry, place it in a fresh clean plastic (not clay or ceramic that retains cold) pot in its proper growing position. If your area has low humidity or the plants are very dehydrated, add a quarter inch layer of presoaked Sphagnum Moss to the bottom of the pot to add additional humidity and soak the moss in clean water. Place in a dark location with good air circulation. For Phalaenopsis plants like this one, wait 24 hours and then pot. Gently wrap the plants in presoaked sphagnum moss or coconut husk and stuff carefully into a plastic pot or mount sized correctly to hold the root ball and allow the leaves to fall over the side. So dont put the plant in the middle of the pot, instead put it on the side of the pot so you can tilt it and allow the leaves to fall strait down like it would if on a tree in the jungle.

The leaves in the photo are floppy (extra so during shipping) and should be hanging down and not in a pot like a Phalaenopsis DTPS plant. Most people mount this plant on a tree or mounting board. Lava rock is the wrong medium as it maintains low moisture and will damage the roots when you repot it every year. This plant is used to being in rain everyday and needs moisture. You need Spag moss or crushed coconut husk and daily soaking to insure fresh oxygenated water reaches the plant roots. If the Dry root shown in the clear pot photo does not recover from the soaking then you should trim it off about 2 inches from the plant. The other roots (green and white) shown above is sufficient for the plant and if needed it will grow new ones if it needs more moisture and feeding.

Not sure where you got this plant, but if you got it from the royalorchidclub.com there is a wealth of growing and care tips available in the information for almost all plants available commercially. You should take a second look at the site of the grower you purchased from. I would agree with the grower, there is no reason for you to receive a refund or replacement. There is nothing wrong with this plant and if it died it was not the growers fault. This plant would not have flowered if it was not healthy.

Very old post but try Akatsuka Orchids out of Hawaii’- see website. My current favorite. they sell mostly mericlones and blooming size in 5-5.5 pots for $35-$40 budded getting read to open or in early buds. The mericlones will look like the picture they show. they have a few hybrids. They also have either out of bloom preparing for first blooms or have already bloomed ince or more but already bloomed current year or will shortly be in bloom for around $35. 5”+ pots pots. The top shipping 2-3 days Fed-X in the US is $32 I believe. Depends on whats coming up. they sell young plants mericlones $15-17, some a little more .Sell Nutricoat in 1 lb bags 13-11-11 and with trace minerals. Depending on size of pots, will feed quite a few plants. Lasts 8-9 months before neeing to replace. Very nice plants. Have been buying fir couple if years , great packaging and boxes and best plants I have gotten ith nuce roots, you do nit need to repot for a couple years unless the have over pot, , good size large bark well drained orchiata so you can water well without rotting roots.

Also look at Palmer Orchids in Florida — great variety, mericlones and hybrid crosses. Lovely plants, not the best in roots, sometimes not doing well under too much moss in 4”. But I have gotten plenty of plants from them and will buy plenty more. If not bifoliates, repot as soon as you receive in spring, summer. Bifoliate cattleyas will have to wait to repot when roots just starting under new growth so they can take off under new leads. This us super important for bifoliates. I have gotten where I don't like buying hybrid seedlings unless I can buy when in bloom so I can see what I’m getting. too many seeded plants are just duds that should be culled not sold to us. .

Also Odoms Orchid's, and RF Orchids both in Florida.

Way too many times we play the guinea pigs and end up with bad color, poor shape and balance, poor growth habit, too long to reach blooming, sickly, at too high a price. They sell these as a magical experience, no one will have one like yours. well thank you, I’d rather not. when we could buy plants at coulle dollars and grow them on, throw away the bad ones, retain the good ones it was okay. But thats hard to do today. and they fail to tell buyers that the plant they say will take 3-5 years to bloom is in optimal cinditions in a greenhouse, not your kitchen window which may be 5-7 years if then. No other horticultural industry does it like this. When you buy a rose, perennials, shrub shrub, etc you know it will be just like it shows on the picture. Not show you a gorgeous bloom of pink with red lips qnd turns out to be yellow with yellow lip. Rest of industry keeps breeding maybe 10 years to get a great plant, trials it across the country/world, throws away thousands and thousands of culls and when you get it it looks like what you thought you were getting. Not the orchid industry. more than likely, you will get a whole batch that dont meet the descriptions if you git one and you pay big prices. i think the buyers need to bush back. i see people paying $50-75 for a seedling that has almost no chance to look like what you think it will look like. Good luck.