Orthene works, Spinosad (although labeled for thrips) does not. Orthene however is chemically stable in water, so you can mix up a batch per label directions in a small sprayer and leave that sprayer -- with the solution in it -- outdoors behind some plant in deep shade for the whole season. Then just take it out when needed and spray just the buds showing color (and usually only on the light colored roses). You do not need or want to spray the whole plant with it -- that's overkill and a waste.

Good luck,

Kathy

I like the idea of mixing one batch of orthene & using when needed over the season. The thrip I have are the ones that attack the blooms before they open. I used Bayer Advanced Insect Control last year & it didnt help much at all.

Now I just need to find orthene. My local lowes & HD didnt even know what it was.

appreciate the info
tim

Well, I'm glad to hear spinosad works for someone on thrips. I generally try the least toxic thing and work my way up to something that works, so I tried Spinosad last year for a couple of sprayings before going back to my old standby (Orthene). Spinosad didn't do a darn thing on them, and I do spray just the buds and just as they show color. We DO NOT have chili thrips (to my knowledge anyway) in California, but we have lots of other kinds (I think 200 plus species, and counting).

Tim, there are several trade names for Orthene's active chemical, which is acephate. Try any of these: Orthene, Orthenex, Bonide Systemic Insect Control, Isotox (acephate plus a miticide). It's probably in the garden centers these days under the Bonide name -- I think I've seen it.

Kathy

Here is a link that might be useful: No Chilli Thrips in California YET

The registrations of many (not all) of the Orthene products (including the systemic insect spray) have been cancelled, see:

http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Product.jsp?REG_NR=00023902406&DIST_NR=000239

I found a PAN list of those cancelled and those not cancelled but the link would not transfer to here. (You have to enter the front door of PAN:
http://www.pesticideinfo.org/ ). Enter Orthene in the "products" section.

Here is a link that might be useful: link for above

With any insecticide that you have to mix, I think it's important to check the label and see if it must be used within a certain amount of time. Some of these lose effectiveness after they've sat around awhile. I don't know about Orthene.

Honey, those ain't thrips.
Those are aphids.

Take a garden hose, and wash them off. They'll fall to the ground and die.
They're weak, soft-bodied insects, and anything will kill them.
Mostly, I just wipe them off with my fingers, but if I hit a period when they're numerous, I wash them off.

Some predatory insects eat them.
Also, hummingbirds think they are candy.
Attract hummingbirds to your garden, leave the insecticides out of it, and the hummers and bush tits will eat the aphids before you have time to worry about 'em.

Thrips are a whole different insect, and are found INSIDE the blooms. If you get them. (Birds eat those, too.)

Chili Thrips look scary, but are not in CA.

Jeri

Thrips is always plural. A single thrip is a thrips, oddly enough, and thrips are very hard to see.

For Aphids like yours, I use a hand-held squirt bottle on the stream setting to blast the aphids into outer space. If you hit them four or five days in a row, you can vanquish them. No chemicals required.

Renee

Kathy, I will look on the labels to see what has acephate in it.
Jeri, yes those are aphids I found on my stroll the other morning. I am just getting ready for the thrips as they always come & I want to be ready for them. The aphids were dead soon after the pic was taken, big blast of water. I dont worry about aphids. The things I worry about are thrips, whitefly & spidermites. I have never seen our hummers on our rose bushes. We have LOTS of birds, but they dont put much of a dent in the bugs.
Tim

I think thahalibut knows they are aphids and are easy to get rid of, if you re-read there original post.

But, they also have Thrip problems and want to know how to get rid of the Thrips.

Besides a nuclear holocaust, I have no idea.
Best of luck!

Try an antitranspirant spray (such as Wilt-Pruf)
See:

http://books.google.com/books?id=5es-nfISl9EC&pg=PA97&lpg=PA97&dq=Antitranspirant+thrip&source=bl&ots=6_Ch6cgfwN&sig=lyakRNQFnlNx-lOgWx_7y_YWnBA&hl=en&ei=eW-pS6fqKcWblgf07P3SBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Also see:
http://www.google.com/patents?hl=en&lr=&vid=USPAT6464995&id=soUKAAAAEBAJ&oi=fnd&dq=antitranspirant+and+thrip&printsec=abstract#v=onepage&q=&f=false

AND:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T5T-4R7F3Y0-1&_user=10&_coverDate=05%2F31%2F2008&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1264522522&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0amp;_userid=10&md5=4274eade980b60b7929341bca0a559dd

AND

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/aab/annals/2001/00000139/00000001/art00068

Here is a link that might be useful: antitranspirant and trips

I am don't spray with chemicals unless its the last resort. IF the aphids get out of control I use Safers rose and flower spray. Its soap and oilbased. Once the lady bettles & other good bugs get active the aphids diseapear. For thrips I use yellow sticky traps. NOOOO, they don't get complete control of them but, it cuts them down to numbers my roses & me can live with.

Henry,

Here's a article I do not fully understand. Maybe you can get more out of it.

http://www.apsnet.org/pd/PDFS/1993/PlantDisease77n09_915.pdf

jim1961, thank you for the link to the full paper. Apparently they feel that the monomer (beta-Pinene) that polymerizes in Wilt-Pruf acts as a feeding deterrent (right side page 19), in addition to the polymerized film being an obvious protective barrier.

I have added Neem (with its insect active ingredient Azadirachin) and in other tests garlic to Wilt-Pruf to discourage Japanese Beetles. My "idea is that having the Neem or garlic in the film gives me a "slow release" of the Neem or Garlic as the film breaks down. This may be similar to the slow release of beta-Pinene from the Wilt-Pruf as the polymer film breaks down (probably from the sunlight).

Others have reported using antitranspirants to try to discourage the mite that spreads rose rosette disease.

If you have any specific questions about the paper, please do not hesitate posting them.

I have found that if I spray a blackspot infected leaf with an antitranspirant, it stops the further spread of the blackspot (the spot stays there but does not get any bigger).

Henry,

That's interesting about the antitranspirant on Blackspot Henry.
Stop by this post and give your thoughts on Baking soda sprays, if you have time.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/roses/msg0319094120904.html?1

Oh, I just realized something about Kathy's statement that Spinosad doesn't work. She mentioned she only sprays the buds. That's what I've always done with Bayer or Orthene (which, incidentally, I bought ages ago--haven't see in a while). But with Spinosad I've sprayed every surface of the plant, concentrating especially on all new growth. Maybe that is the difference in success. I've done that because my target was Chilli Thrips, not Western Flower Thrips. They are quite different in their mode of attack. But happily, when I did that, I found I no longer saw a problem with the flower thrips. Maybe spraying the whole plant is the key?

I, too, try to avoid excess use of incesticides. When I realized I was dealing with Chilli Thrips, I was quite unhappy. They are a nasty problem. Nearly all my roses were effected, and badly. I know a number of other rose growers who had rose bushes killed by them. They attack numerous other plants, too, including some herbs and vegetables. Fortunately, Spinosad seems to be relatively mildly toxic.
Mike

That makes sense Mike. Spinosad is very expensive here, due to the large concentration called for by the label -- It calls for 2 oz. per gallon of spray, and to do my whole garden, I would have to fill a 4 gallon sprayer. That would mean I would only get 2 sprays out of a whole bottle of the stuff, and they recommend it be reapplied every week or two, or after overhead watering (and I do that quite a bit).

Moreover, most of the bugs on my roses are "good" bugs, and I don't want to kill them other than the ones that take up residence on the buds, like the thrips. Maybe once per year I'll have to spray for sawfly larvae, but they are very seasonal -- you see them and know you have to do it right then. I do spray everything sometimes for spider mites, but that's a miticide, not an insecticide. But mostly the 4 gallon aprayer is for fungicides, which we need a lot of here in our coastal fog.

That ssid, I am wondering, Mike, how often did you have to reapply Spinosad to get control over your thrips, and did you use it at the full label strength? Once they were gone, did they come back, or is it something that can be taken care of for a long period with one spraying?

Kathy

Kathy

I wish you guys all the luck in the world with having to deal with Thrip problems in your zones.

I just bought a bottle of pre-mixed Spinosad under the label of Captian Jacks Deadbug Brew. I usually have a bad problem with thrips on a few of my roses. All of them get thrips, but it doesn't affect all of them. So I was hoping to use this spray on just the bushes that have the problems. From what mike posted, I should probably start as soon as I see buds and spray the whole bush.

From what I've read, spinosad is not supposed to be toxic to the good predatory bugs such as lady bugs and minute pirate bugs, but who really knows.

Ugh, that picture is pretty gross.

Regarding thrips, does anyone have suggestions for getting rid of them once they are already in the bloom? If I've cut a rose with thrips, first I shake it upside down, which usually dislodges some of the thrips. Then I use a Q-tip and smash any thrips that I see running around. I've heard of people dunking the whole bloom underwater to try to flush them out. Does that work? I haven't tried it because I'm not sure how to dry it off without damaging the petals. I don't want to put a dripping rose into a vase. Plus, it might ruin the form, causing the bloom to "blow" earlier than normal.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rare Roses.com

Azurerose,
I do the same thing w/ my roses, I try shaking it and then sometimes I knock it gently against a hard surface - occasionally I knock it too hard and snap the bloom off in my exuberance.

I have also tried dunking the entire bloom underwater, but usually there are plenty of die-hards that cling. I have also LEFT the entire roses underwater in a bucket, which does better at dislodging thrips - but also damages the edges of the bloom somewhat. My roses are always dripping when I cut and arrange them because I do the cutting in the early AM while the overhead sprinklers are running, so the extra water doesn't bother me...

I also wanted to go the organic, environmentally friendly route with my roses (72 and counting), but it's a difficult road to travel. Conserve SC is $150/qt at one prominent site, and I just can't see spending that kind of money.
What I have noticed is that their Conserve SC is 11.6% spinosad, where others, such as Monterey and Green Light, are only .5% spinosad. However, the mixing ratio for Conserve SC appears to be .1 ounce(2.96ml) per gallon of water (from:
(http://www.cdms.net/LDat/ld24P009.pdf), so it would appear that this "professional" Conserve SC is just a way to make quite a bit of money, IMHO. I haven't found either the Monterey or the Green Light brands locally to date, but I'm still looking. In the meantime, a tip in our local Houston Rose Society "Rosette" told of an Ant Killer called Surrender, which is 75% acephate, and sells locally for $12.95. As earlier stated, I'd love to go the organic route, but there's just too much work, sweat, and money tied up in my roses, so I'll be using the Orthene in the lowest % acephate per gallon to control thrips if the .5% spinosad doesn't work out. I actually saw some other products that contained the same .5% spinosad at a local feed store, and purchased a bottle of this product, which I'll try initially.
Please correct me if I'm wrong on those mixing ratios.

Last summer I had thrips on my roses, and the Knock-outs were the worst....we were invaded by the Chili-Thrips in this area, but I am not sure what kind I had.......I sprayed with hose-end Bayer 3-in-1 twice, a week apart, and that was the end of them, period......it also takes care of BS.... sally

eagleshadow, how would you apply the Surrender product as it is listed as a wettable powder. For thrips you'd need a contact spray not a systemic or something that would work through the plants roots.

to Saldut - good grief. you say you are spraying the
Bayer 3in1 to get rid of Thrips? I have Bayer 3 in 1 and
I have been mixing it in a watering can and putting it in
the ground. have I totally screwed up ? I have a terrible
thrip problem and I thought the 3 in1 was a systemic and
that it was supposed to be watered around the base of the
plants. help, help.

So may choices of sprays and chemicals to choose from it makes yah want a drink don't it ?

Belinda, the 3in1 is systemic. I used it regularly as a spray for a long time with good results though. You just have to be sure that they are well watered several hours before. Like all products, it stopped working after while on the thrips. They adapt to insecticides and then it has to be changed.
Nancy

thank you Nancy. I assume that you still use
the proportion to water as if it were going
into the ground. Oui? I am going to try this.
belinda