Kerosene heaters have always been my back up too. Now that I am on gas, I dont worry about it too much. I still have all 4 of those heaters. They are great work horses and come in hand at times.
The hardest part of all this is staying up at night.

No gas-line out where we live. Everything out here is electric. No one uses propane either. Some old timers still use kerosene or wood stoves. It'll take me a few days to recover from the lost sleep.

Tonight I ordered another Portable/PreWired PORT8 1 $37.00 Thermostat from KKontrols for the HFGH. There's no way to keep a steady temp with these cheap little electric heaters without some kind of thermostat. And boy do I hate running out there in the cold to keep trying to adjust it.

alia z5

I was surprised the tea-lights and hot water worked as well as they did considering the bitter cold temperature. This wont happen again I assure you. I have the kerosene heater ready to go with plenty of kerosene. I made space in the back of the GH for it today - I would just have to carry/drag it in. I need another one, a smaller one for the 6X8 HFGH. I'm going to check the second hand stores first.

ladylotus Z3/4

Do get a backup heater. Don't wait. You can lose all your plants because someone hits a pole or a storm takes the wires down with the help of falling trees.

The power going off when I'm asleep is and has been one of my greatest fears. Have you heard of any kind of buzzer or something that warns of a power failure? I remember a lady in Nashville who kept tropical birds in an outbuilding. She had one but she passed away so I can can't ask her what they're called or where she got it.

agardenstateof_mind

What a night you had! I'll bet you were fuming, which probably actually helped ... all that adrenaline boosts your energy ;-) You were resourceful, though, and both you and your plants (except that one basil) survived it.

I don't know how I made it up and down the icy steps with the hot water and then up and down with the Orchids that had spikes under my coat. My teeth were chattering so bad I was shaking like a leaf. I put a kerosene lamp on the porch but couldn't get light on the steps. The wind kept blowing out the candles. Trust me - it was a nightmare come true!

That's one of my nightmares, too, and, though I make sure my little backup kerosene heater is handy ... I'll be darned if I can remember to ask my husband where the fuel tank is! Some "canned fuel" sounds like a good backup for the backup ... Plan C, as it were. Last resort is to bring in as many plants as possible; the evacuation list, indicating which plants get priority, is already made up.

I thought the kerosene heater was still where I saw it last, about 20' away in the corner of the 2 car garage. As close to the GHs as possible. I looked for it frantically before I woke up my husband for help. I didn't know where it was and thought perhaps someone stole it. He said he stuck it up in the rafters and refused to get it down for me. I couldn't believe that one, he the stuck it where he knew I couldn't get it down myself in an emergency. And two, that he refused to get up and help me get it down. He knows how I love my plants and he knew I was deeply distressed and upset. If one of his grown children calls, or when friends would call he would get up and drive 100 miles for them in the middle of the night.

I'm just curious - do you have the 6x8 HFGH and is it insulated in any way? I've often wondered how quickly mine would cool down (I've added some insulation), but haven't had the courage to test it. Your experience just may prompt a drill under controlled circumstances.

I have both the 6X8 HFGH and a 8X16 Rion. The HFGH only has insulation on the north wall and roof section. It's something covered with tinfoil. It cooled down rapidly. See my posts above. The Rion cooled down much slower but it's bigger and has more plants plus several tubs of water for water lettuce and water hyacinth. There are a lot more things to hold the heat. Also everything has bubble wrap but the south wall and 1/2 the south roof.

Good topic! Thanks for sharing.

I hope it spurs others to make sure they have a backup and know where it is.

dcarch

In a pinch, you can use a long 4" flex duct (clothes dryer duct), duct tape to your car's heat blower and run your car at idle. You can get a lot of heat that way. Of course you should never run your engine inside your garage.

There's nothing to attach a flex duct to in my van and nowhere to buy one at midnight if there was. The heat comes out a grill like thing at the top and bottom. And then what would I do if I could attach a duck - cut a hole through the polycarb to heat the GH? Cut it with what when there's no power? I wouldn't damage the polycarb. I would and did find another way. :)

You can also buy an inverter and plug in your car to get 110V AC to power some home gas heating systems which need electric power to run.

That should work for those with gas heat. Our house and GHs are all electric.

It can be very expensive if your house is too cold and your water pipes burst.
dcarch

He knew that when he refused to get out of bed. I had the fireplace going and it kept the main living area at 68. I ran water on and off so the pipes wouldn't freeze under the house - that was between running hot water buckets out and orchids in..... and with this virus I can't shake. I've had it now for several weeks. The last thing I needed was to be out in the bitter cold all night and lose a night's sleep.

"There's nothing to attach a flex duct to in my van and nowhere to buy one at midnight if there was. The heat comes out a grill like thing at the top and bottom. And then what would I do if I could attach a duck - cut a hole through the polycarb to heat the GH? Cut it with what when there's no power? I wouldn't damage the polycarb. I would and did find another way. :) "

I bought a 25' long flex duct from HD originally to attach to my leaf blower to clean the gutters. I forgot how much but it was cheap ($10?) It takes very little room to store.

When I had a power out some winters ago, that's what I did. I duct tape the flex duct to one of the hot air vents in the car, shut off all the others, put a card board in front of the car's radiator, and ran the engine to warn up the house.

with a 500 watt car inverter, you can run your TV and computer/internet, and a small CFL light.

dcarch

Power outage.

Do yo have a battery backup for your computer? I have several.

None are connected to a computer, they power the alarm clock and a bedside lamp with a 40 watt bulb, one is in my living room and powers another small lamp and the cordless phone base station.

I also have a REAL phone connected to the phone line! (they work when there is no power)

If you have my kind of set up you do not need to have an alarm that tells you when you have no power, them UPS things beep at you!

Also, if you have enough thermal mass in your greenhouse you can sleep in peace, nothing will die, it may not grow much that day though....

I do not have a greenhouse yet but am I ever glad I decided to click on this post. Next time I see a kerosene heater at the thrift I will pick it up -- just in case power does go out when my GH is up and running.

greenhouser ,
Glad things turned out OK in the end.

DL

dcarch, those are some creative ideas, thanks.

I didn't see anyone mention an obvious solution, a generator. We were out of power for about 48 hours with the ice storm last month and the house was kept nice and toasty with a 5500W generator. It could also work well for a GH.

I will mention another possible solution for those with propane or nat gas...get it off the grid by using a thermocouple/microvoltage thermostat. My two 24K BTU heaters kept right on generating heat all the way through our power outage.

Stressbaby...my gas heater doesnt use any electric, what are you talking about the grid thingy. If my power went out, it would keep burning as normal. I would not have a fan to blow the warm out around, but it would still be warm. I got a generator also. In fact, I have so much back up, my backup is backing up my backup....lol

I remember the old days when my heater failed or something broke and I would wake up only to fine the temp down to 40°F and dropping. At 2:00am this is something you dont want to see. Up ya go and out the door in 23°F weather. You check the problem, try to fix it, your freezing, its cold, the winds blowing, theres no light except for the flashlight, did I say it was cold. Then you hook up the backup and get it going. By this time your wired up and can't sleep if you wanted to. Thank god for backups.

I am glad all your babies survived...... I hope you feel better soon..... Barb

Backup generator of course.

Not only you have to worry about winters, but also summer power outage can ruin all you food in the frig and freezer quickly. ThatÂs more $ than buying a generator.

ItÂs good to have an auto-switching system to power up your house, but thatÂs a very expensive installation.

If you have some degree of handy-ness and electric skills, it is very easy to backup your house.

Get two heavy-duty extension cords, cut them in halves and splice the two male plugs together.

When the power is out, find an outlet on the same side of the electric panel as the refrigerator to plug in the spiced extension cord, turn off the main breaker to the grid, turn off everything in the house, start the generator, and then turn on the various things you need to operate. At least half of your house will be powered up.

Never run your generator inside your house.

Your neighbors will hate you when they see your house is all nice and bright, your TV is on and you are still connected to the Internet.

dcarch

OD, some propane or nat gas heaters are powered by thermostats or controllers that require a 120AC power source, thus they are "on the grid." It sounds as if you have the same setup as me, with a thermocouple and a microvoltage thermostat. It is good setup, more reliable. It seems that the failure point is the thermocouple. I always get my heaters serviced and checked every fall. As a result, I have replaced one thermocouple so far.

Dcarch,
I heat the GH with gas and electric backup. I also have a generator with automatic switching if the power is down. But in the long run Mother Nature wins. She decided to take a poly panel out in a winter storm, she didnÂt do it in the summer. All you can do is make her try harder the next time.
John

Chris, I never thought of using the UPS (uninterruptable power supply) for anything but a computer. Hmmm. We also find that it's a good alarm system. When the power goes off and the battery takes over, that loud beep wakes us up. It's so loud it terrifies our old German Shepherd. Between the beeps and a flailing 100 pound dog, we're all well aware the power is off.

chris_in_iowa

Power outage.

Do yo have a battery backup for your computer? I have several.

None are connected to a computer, they power the alarm clock and a bedside lamp with a 40 watt bulb, one is in my living room and powers another small lamp and the cordless phone base station.

I also have a REAL phone connected to the phone line! (they work when there is no power)

If you have my kind of set up you do not need to have an alarm that tells you when you have no power, them UPS things beep at you!

Also, if you have enough thermal mass in your greenhouse you can sleep in peace, nothing will die, it may not grow much that day though....

Yes, all our computers have a battery and something for lightning protection. They do beep when we lose power but we've both slept through that before. They're not in the bedroom. The only thing that wakes us up is the fire alarms shrill piercing sound. I can look into a cheap UPSs the next time I'm in town and keep it in the bedroom. That's a good idea - thanks. :)

jbest123

If a panel had been taken out that night I could kiss the plants goodbye. It dropped to 11F before dawn. As for the Rion, I doubt a panel can be blown out. It would take hurricane winds and then I think the frame and all would go. :(

rosepedal

Thanks Rosepedal. I feel a little better today. My cough is easing up and no runny nose. I also feel better knowing the kerosene heater is right where it belongs if this happens again. The plan is to start the kero' as soon as the juice is off and start moving all the plants in the HFGH to the larger Rion. I can stuff them everywhere for an emergency. That is, if it's below, or expected to drop below 40F. We actually don't get many nights that are that bitter cold here - as we had that night.

A UPS back up, depending on size, only gives you the most couple of hours of power and they are not cheap.

Before I have my generator, I used to keep a few old car batteries on trickle charge, with a 400w inverter (about $40.00) you can get many more hours of power.

Old car batteries, while not good enough to crank an engine, have plenty of mussle left to power lights, computers, etc.

dcarch

GH,
You can buy at HD or Lowe's a FREEZER ALARM. Its use it to alert you when the power goes out so that you do not have everything in your freezer go bad.

1i

Ho far does the signal go?

dcarch

The size generator I'd need to heat my GHs in an emergency runs around $600. That's a lot for an occasional power outage and a hobby, not business, greenhouse.

greenhouser,

My generator is free. Actually, more than free!

Everytime the power went out, I sent a request for compensation (about $400) for spoiled food to the power company here (Con Ed), and they would send a check. This happened about four or five times in the past. I figured I should not have to pay for a generator and gas to run it.

I bought my 2,500 watt generator on eBay for $200.00.

dcarch

dcarch

Con Ed? You must live on Long Island NY. :) That's where I'm originally from. I don't think I'd get a penny from our electric Co. because the power wasn't off long enough for anything to spoil. I don't remember it ever being off more than 4 hours at a time. Our Homeowners Ins has a deductible so nothing from there either......

Greenhouser, you sure can throw killer balls.

The size generator I'd need to heat my GHs in an emergency runs around $600. That's a lot for an occasional power outage and a hobby, not business, greenhouse.

Not really considering the time and money invested in the hobby. I got my 5500W generator for $600. There is a 7200W generator on ebay right now with a current bid of $315...hurry, a little over 2 hours left to bid...wonder what the shipping would be on that puppy!

For goodness sake, buy another kerosene heater. You can buy a 10K BTU k-1 heater for $100 or a 20K btu for $130. Buy the larger one. Now about the husband who stored the heater and then wouldn't get it out when there was an emergency, shame on him. But shame on you as well. You should have been prepared. I have my backup ready when I prepare the greenhouse for the coming winter. BTW, do you have or would you buy a gas barbecue grill? That makes an excellent backup and and serves a purpose other than cooking. I bought a portable grill with greenhouse backup in mind and I keep 2 gas tanks on the ready during the winter. If you are going to have a greenhouse you need to make a plan for heating AND BACKUP. You got by this time and now is the time to make a commitment to a plan for next time.

My greenhouse is set up with propane-it uses a thermocoupler-no electricity required.Like stressbaby said,these must be watched-mine needs to be cleaned regularly.Propane is very common around here,It's probably the easiest thing about my greenhouse-I just fire it up in the fall,and turn it off late spring!!No fuss,no muss-power or no power.Wish watering,fertilizing and spraying for bugs was so automatic!!Been thru several power outages-ice storms-the greenhouse kept humming along.Mark

You can be sure with shipping it would come close to the price of a new one. My husband would never go for that much money as a backup when we already have the kerosene heater. You gotta remember he's semi-retired and in a few months will be fully retired. I haven't worked in several years. We're on a limited income right now. I can't go too nuts with my hobbies anymore. :*(

* Posted by tsmith2579 Z7B/8A-Alabama (My Page) on
Sat, Jan 5, 08 at 22:58

For goodness sake, buy another kerosene heater. You can buy a 10K BTU k-1 heater for $100 or a 20K btu for $130. Buy the larger one. Now about the husband who stored the heater and then wouldn't get it out when there was an emergency, shame on him. But shame on you as well. You should have been prepared.

Shame on me? You apparently missed a few messages. I was prepared. I had the heater where it was easy to reach in an emergency. The last time I checked it was still there. He didn't bother to tell me he moved it. I very seldom go into the 2-car garage so didn't notice it was gone. I can't get one for the HFGH because it's too small. There is no space for even a small kerosene heater.

I have my backup ready when I prepare the greenhouse for the coming winter. BTW, do you have or would you buy a gas barbecue grill? That makes an excellent backup and and serves a purpose other than cooking. I bought a portable grill with greenhouse backup in mind and I keep 2 gas tanks on the ready during the winter. If you are going to have a greenhouse you need to make a plan for heating AND BACKUP. You got by this time and now is the time to make a commitment to a plan for next time.

No, we don't have or use an outdoor grill. I was prepared. Had the kerosene heater not been moved to the rafters I would have ran it into the Rion, lit it, cracked a vent and been done with it. It only takes 15 minutes to move the plants from the smaller HFGH to the Rion.

Good luck, because you are going to need it. I believe the Lord helps those who help themselves.

tsmith2579, that's kind of a contradictory statement.
If the Lord helps those that help themselves, then "luck" has nothing to do with it.
greenhouser, sounds like your ready for the next one.
Dave

tsmith, I know exactly what you are saying and I couldn't agree more.

pushindirt

I sure am. There's even a large can of kerosene out there in case the juice is out for 48 hours or more.

Just wondering if some posters in here have got their act together to survive a long power outage in their home.

At this time of year some of us need to make sure we have at least a week of food and water. (and toilet paper!!! )

It does no harm to play a simple game of "what happens if ..." at this time of year.

What happens if the power goes out for 3 days....

What happens if I cannot get to a store for a week...

What happens if I lose a couple of panels on my greenhouse...

During winter if I loose power for 48hrs then the greenhouse would be way down on my list of priorities.

(P.S. OK I lied, if I lost power for two days I would be living in the greenhouse as it would be warmer than my home.)

:)

I didn't read all the replies but know some of you asked about a way to tell if the power is out if you're sleeping. Run, don't walk and get a temperature monitor called Thermalarm. Works on a 6 or 12 volt battery and you can buy a small, LOUD alarm from Radio Shack. You set the lower and upper temperature ranges and if the temps fall outside the range, the alarm sounds. We run it w/ telephone wire and have one in each of our 4 commercial greenhouses. They'll pay for themselves after only one "save".

Regards,

Tom in VA

Here is a link that might be useful: Thermalarm

For power outage in the home (which we have here frequently):
1. I heat mostly with a wood stove (have forced air but too expensive to run)
2. Have 2 rain barrels to catch 120 gals of water. Use this to flush toilets.
3. have 2 dedicated plugs installed in living room and 1 in kitchen that go to a generator outside to power lights and refrigerator.(use only for emergency).
4. 4 Kerosene wall lamps.
5. 1 land line phone because the cordless doesn't want to work when the power goes out (go figure).
6. Water cooler in kitchen that stores 20 gals of drinking water. We use it all year so it stays fresh.

Dave

tom_va

I can't find any price there on the site. What do they cost?

chris_in_iowa

We don't get snowed in here but do occasionally lose the power for 3 to 4 hours, usually when lightening or a drunk gets one of the poles.

We have a fireplace insert that keeps 1/2 the house quite warm. No problem. We have several kerosene lamps and and a camping lamp plus 100s of candles I got on sale dirt cheap. We have some camping equipment to heat a meal or make coffee. And we have the kerosene heater for the larger GH.

We're pretty well fixed for a power loss.

If you think of a back-up generator as an insurance policy, the cost becomes far more reasonable in comparison. Then, factor in the deductable on your homeowner's policy, and the generator becomes downright cheap.

I could not agree more with the observation already stated here; that if you think of the cost of replacement for what you can lose, you might find a small generator to be a cheap investment and unlike an insurance policy, you only pay the premium once. Keep the simple gasolene motor on a back-up generator properly serviced and it could outlive you.

I agree, BW. Keeping it properly serviced is key. Lots of the old timers around here swear by Sta-bil.

A small generator is also great for camping.

dcarch

Sorry, I didn't realize they didn't sell them directly on their page. They usually run around $50. Here are a couple of links to try but if you use Google, you might find them cheaper. Any greenhouse "should" be happy to order you one. They make a couple of different models.

http://www.farmerboyag.com/Manufacturers/Thermalarm/

http://www.amazon.com/Thermalarm-III-Temperature-Sensor/dp/B0002VOJPO

http://www.aaagreenhouse.com/alarmmonitoringsystems.htm

Regards,

Tom in VA

Stress: My husband uses Sta-bl in the lawn tractor, mowers and his chain saws and I think he adds something to the gas tank when he pulls the battery out of his steel mistress and puts it up on blocks for the winter, but the generators are kept ready for use year round and run up monthly, so I don't know if he uses it in them or not. But now I'm curious, so will have to ask.

My father-in-law took the engine put of an old Case and used it as a generator. It was an amazing Rube Goldberg sort of contraption and made enough noise to wake the dead and had to be started with a hand crank, but produced enough electric power to run a 40 stall milking parlor, with enough left over to operate the lights and the cooler. It ran whenever he needed it for over 50 years.

The cows were smart enough to get used to the racket and it didn't bother them but the hens stopped laying for days after every power outage. My mother-in-law used to say that it took a power outtage for her to get the makings for chicken soup. LOL!

I use a Temp Alert alarm system in my greenhouse. I paid $50 for it five years ago, and it's saved my plants more than a time or two. The bell in my bedroom was an additional $5-6. There is no way you can sleep through that sound. It's loud enough to wake the dead.

I have two propane and three electric heaters, and a backup propane "Mr. Heater". Between them, I'm covered pretty well for emergencies. But I really depend on the Temp Alert to keep me aware of the temps dropping.

Here is a link that might be useful: Temp Alert greenhouse alarm

I definitely need one of those alarms. I was up when the power went off. Had I already been asleep I would have lost a lot of plants. Where did you get your alarm?

Generators are a life saver. One in the neighborhood of 5500w is just about right. When Andrew waltzed thru my house I had to stay there for 7 days to guard my gun collection and the only thing that made it bareable was a genator. Sure it made a lot of noise, but it powered a fan that kept the bugs off me at night and lite some lights for me to shoot by and I was glad to have it. They are not all that expensive and if you use it a couple of times and it saves the stuff in your frig alone it is paid for. I ended up with two which I gave away to my brother for coming over and saving my ass and taking the guns away. I had almost 100 long guns and a basket full of handguns. I had to carry one of them for over a month and a half. There was no law after Andrew for over a week. They just had no way of getting to us out in the subberbs. A generator is well worth the bucks.

1eyedJack and the Dawg

old dawg

They're also $500 to $600 for that size. We never lose the power for more than maybe 4 hours. I think anyone who lives where power outages are common and last for 12 hours or more really should have one. If they can afford it. Just to keep a GH warm for say 12 to 24 hours a kerosene heater would be the least expensive way to go.

I'm wondering if you could have just left the greenhouses sealed up if the outage was only for a few hours like you stated. It seems to me that having the doors opened and fanning that frigid air into the greenhouse made more work for you.

Pam

pkponder

I think you missed a few messages. I never opened the doors on the GHs until the temps dropped to 39F. The Electric Co. said the power would be off all night, that a pole had to be reset. It was 11F by then. A few more degrees and I would have lost loads of plants. At 39F I started to carry out buckets of steaming 140F water and lit all those candles under the benches. I couldn't wait any longer. I was hoping the power would come back on before they dropped to 40F, but no such luck. :(

as far as the greenhouse goes,i keep a small propane tank with heater on top as backup.as far as food goes,if it's that cold outside you can get tubs[plastic,with lids]and put perishable items in them and put them outside on porch,etc.LOL