Benny Lopez scorches here in my coastal area -- but only in weather like our present, with strong, dry, hot desert winds. And to be honest, very few roses don't have that problem.

Fortunately, this sort of weather is not normal for us.

Brent -- Latest news I have is that "Old Town Novato" is a match for Jay Williams "Hudson Crimson." Blooms are considerably larger than those of "Benny Lopez," but similar in form and color (at least, most of the time).

Here is "Old Town Novato."

Any thoughts if all three are actually the same rose in different conditions?

(FYI Benny is on my wish list if anyone will have cuttings)

"Benny Lopez" and "Old Town Novato" grow about 10-ft. apart here. They are definitely NOT the same rose. OTN has much larger blooms than B.L.

Cass Bernstein (who found "Old Town Novato") now believes that it is the same as Jay Williams foundling "Hudson Crimson." (I call it "Hudson Crimson" because that is what Jay calls it.)

Jay collected it on Hudson St., in Oakland, CA.
Cass collected it in an older area in Novato, CA

I suppose "Old Town Novato" is also not in commerce?

If it is a hybrid perpetual, we cold zoners might be able to grow it.

Unless Burlington Roses has it, I suppose it is not. We have so fewer nurseries, these days.

Yes, I imagine it might be good for you. :-(

Jeri

On the bright side, at the Sacramento City Cemetery's open garden and rose sale, we had for the first time enough OTN to satisfy everyone looking for it. :-)

Benny Lopez grew slowly over the summer. It is now about 15" tall. It gave a few flowers last spring. The best news is how clean and healthy the foliage is. Some of my other Damask Perpetuals are almost defoliated, Miranda and Pergolese especially, but BL is showing no disease and none of the brown leaves, the "Damask crud", on Pergolese. Miranda is in a very bad location and needs to be moved. These Damask Perpetuals do seem to need rich soil, and I am beginning to think they do better on their own roots than on multiflora.

You know what? That just TICKLES ME PINK.

Nastarana -- it makes my day to think that this little rose from Southern California has done so well in your colder climate.

Nicest thing I've heard all day!

Jeri

Brnny Lopez is now about 30" tall and is now blooming again. Still a bit sparse, but I trust it will fill in next year. I am now seeing some browming of leaves towards the bottom of the canes. I don't know if this is BS or just dead leaves which continue to cling to their stems, but I can live with it. I just cut a flower for the house. It almost looks like a mad Gallica in color and form, and did anyone mention the lovely fragrance? On the basis of first year performance, I think I can confidently say BL is hardy to at least zone 5a, with protection. Like all my Damask Perpetuals, it does seem to require rich soil and a good fert regimen--I would say, treat this group like modern roses if you want them to grow and bloom.

Well it is in commerce in at least one (obscure) nursery in Europe.and seems highly appreciative of our chilly winters. Wonder if Mariannese has it (for it is she who gave me the heads up)?.

campanula, might there be any historic collection of Damask Perpetuals in Europe against which Benny could be compared? Maybe we could get a correct ID of this rose.

Fraid that this rose is one of a tranche of US roses - came to my notice because they (Rosaplant) are selling a couple of older hulthemias raised by Mr Moore (Persian Sunset et al) and also a handful of Kim's roses....so I am pretty sure someone on your side of the pond knows more than me.

However, Sangerhausen has proved (and still does) a treasure trove of obscure and almost forgotten roses - have you contacted them?

I know that a few of our CA roses -- including Benny Lopez and Grandmother's Hat -- have gone to European nurseries ... and I was startled recently to see a B.L. bloom posted on Facebook by a gentleman in Japan. (WHEEEE!!)

My conditions are almost fatal for HPs and difficult for most DPs -- but remember -- Benny was found a few miles from here, in coastal Santa Barbara. I don't care what he is. I just enjoy knowing that he does so well for me.

It is a beautiful rose. I am thrilled that it grows well for me. I love it.

Jeri

It looks like an early HP to me: 1840s-1850s. The amply-proportioned and somewhat shiny leaves just don't have the pert and matte look of those characteristic of DPs (not to say that there aren't exceptions!); the spination, though showing a very strong DP influence, also shows that there's "something else" as well in the plant's heritage; and there's something going on in the way the flowers open, as if there's a thought of opening spirally (like a China-influenced rose), but it's being overwhelmed by an instinct to open radially (like a DP). All of this suggests to me that its parentage was something like (DP) x (Bourbon x early HP), or maybe (and perhaps more likely) just an early HP going all mixed-up ancestral on us in its progeny. Trying to identify an early-ish red HP would be rather a challenge, to put it mildly!

One thing that's interesting about this rose is that it performs well here. And that is NOT characteristic of most HPs -- indeed, not characteristic of most DPs!

In general, the things that have survived in Santa Barbara seem to be Teas, or have a healthy dose of Tea -- so its survival is as surprising as its performance.

I do know that it performs best when well-hydrated. And I love it.

I am surprised by how many of the recently reintroduced found roses are proving to be excellent garden plants. I am thinking of Benny, Secret Garden Musk Climber, Darlow's 'Enigma, Pleasant Hill Cemetary and Mancheser Gardian Angel, just to name a few I have grown.

The only found rose I have so far decided I could live without was the Red Runabout. Most turn out to be some of the best in the garden.

Nastarana -- You're right.

But think on it! They survived because they were "easy keepers," who could get along with little or no attention and fuss. And that is part of what attracts me to them.

Absolutely. I don't mean to be lazy and negligent, it's just that I have short attention spans and there is always something else coming around the corner so this years crazes have to manage without any further input....and these 'found' roses are usually, by their very nature, the ones most appropriate for slackers such as myself. Of course, we don't really do the 'found' thing here in the UK....but a fertile source of cuttings has always been old gardens and even better, Victorian municipal recreation parks. Years ago, when we had park-keepers and groundsmen, these places often boasted wonderful glasshouses and fabulous rhododendron and other shrub collections (such as my beloved deutzias)....but these days of cutbacks, only the toughies survive years of non-watering, non-feeding and rumbustious children and wayward dogs and footballs - exactly the plants I am looking for.

I want Benny Lopez! Living in Santa Barbara it seems like a must.

I would love to hear more about Benny Lopez the person.

Old Town Novato has also been on the wish list.

Kippy -- Somehow, I thought you already had it.

I should ask Ingrid -- who obtained the rose from Mr. Lopez -- to tell the story again.

Hi, Rosie Friends,

@portlandmysteryrose

@jerijen

@Kippy

@nastarana

I hope to resurrect this thread & I mentioned this on the new 2022 “Damask Perpetual,” thread that I bought a Benny Lopez from Rose Petals Nursery kast fall 2021. I am zone 6a & Benny Lopez is zone 6-I gave researched so far. I grew Benny Lopez on my south sunny side of home and being she’s vigorous-she made it tgrough winter. She has not had enough sun-so I am movibg her slightly forward on that south side to get more sun perpetually!

Benny Lopez, being a Damask Perpetual, seems pretty hardy, oh had a ti y bloom in fall 2021. No cane loss in my cold winter! I would live to see more photos of her, see hiw he grows in your gardens, & see ”how tall he gets?” Height not mentioned on internet.

Rose Petals Nursery photo

Benny Lopez, Santa Barbara Mystery Rose

I heard on another Benny Lopez thread about CA fires 8-9 yrs ago. I used to live in LA, CA with fires from San Diego-Los Angelos. How are you all now?I read Benny took a beating in the heat at that time.

Not too worried about fires in NY , where I am now. Summers are usually mild-70-80F usually-pretty lovely esp. right now in gorgeous spring! 75F today-beauriful & sunny! My gardens are almost 1/2 in bloom and all roses almost have buds.

Hi Kitty, Thanks for checking in about Benny! Such a special rose!! I need to contact Burling. She is propagating one for me. I love your photo of Benny! It sounds like he is doing really well for you in NY, and he is even hardier than suspected. 🎉 When I receive my plant, I’ll be sure to post. In the meantime, others will likely have more to offer. Carol

@portlandmysteryrose Thank you for your comment. I’m excited you will be getting a Benny Lopez. That’s wonderful Burlington is growing you one. Do they estimate when they will ship it to you? You have waited a long time to get one-8 years! . My Benny Lopez is only 1 foot tall and couple sm canes & not growing much because not enough sun, but very healthy! . I’ll move her today to sun to see her grow more! It will be nice to see how she grows for you!

I started a new OGR thread & posted Benny Lopez on it-hope someone has a Benny Lopez on it.

I have been kind of neutral about it but it's growing on me, quite literally. Seems like it has some thrive genes. I like the color.

@erasmus_gw

Do you have BL?

FRIENDS &

@jerijen

@nastarana

@odinthor

I just loved the deep fushia & many petals! It is sipposed to be 4 inches diameter, And it says it has a strong damask fragrance!!! Also, that old garden rose appearance frilly oetals! I read it had hundreds of petals them 40+ petals-both on helpmefind-so which is it? A hundred ir 40+ petals! It sounds like a sumptous big bloom which is 4-5 inches diameter! Love it! How tall does BL get???

@jerijen Thank you-very helpful! Love hearing it can continuously bloom & lovely fushia -likac bloom-decadent color! 4ft-good size! I look forward to seeing our Benny L grow & compare & photos!!!!

Yes, Kitty, I have it ...got mine from Burling. Glad to hear it's a moderate grower even in CA.

@KittyNYz6 Thank you for starting a Benny conversation (and new thread) ! Please do give us updates. It will be fun and informative to hear how your experience compares with @erasmus_gw and @jerijen. I’ll chime in when my Benny arrives. I am so happy you are finally growing your Benny after waiting 8 long years! As a whole, I LOVE the Damask Perpetual class, and individually, I love this rose for its history, fragrance and charm. Carol

I really wish this rose was more widely available. It's an easy rose to root, so should be a good one for nurseries.

@jerijen

Presently, BL is in stock at Rose Petals Nursery. Has been available from them for 2+ years.

@portlandmysteryrose Thank you! I am excited to see how we all do with our Benny L this season!!! Let us know when your BL is delivered!It does have a fascinating history!

@jerijen Oh, gosh that’s gorgeous!! Someone once described Portland from Glendora’s blooms as looking like the elegant print on floral Victorian wallpaper, but I think your Benny’s frilled and swirled layers of petals give PfG a tough run for that caption. I wish I could smell that raspberry pink bloom! Carol

@jerijen

Oh, My, your BL is sumptous!!!! Wowsa! I have to look at yours again & again until mine blooms! So excited….. lice to see mibe look like that! Gorgeous raspberry frills!

Good Evening, Friends,

@jerijen

@portlandmysteryrose

@erasmus_gw

My Benny Lopez bloomed first bloom… has 3 buds…

At first very colorful…yesterday…June 27, 2022…

Has a lion’s face, LOL!

very hot here so it faded in sun when opened… but still beautiful today! June 28, 2022

OGRs have such beautiful shapes! Looking forward to it growing bigger as it’s only 1 1/2 ft height. Love it‘s fushia & frills! Love it’s deep colors when it’s cool, too! Love your photos of it above!!!

June 29, 2022, Coastal Southern California

@jerijen Oh, My, Goodness!!! Says, Shirley Temple! That is the most decadent, gorgeous ever BL bloom! I have to look at it again & again up close….. it’s deep fushia then fading to purple is enchanting! Someday maybe mine will color up like that in cooler weather!!! Oh, heavens beautiful!!! I kooked at it enlarged & it is the most beautiful rose I have seen all season possibly!! I’m fainting over it! How big in diameter is the bloom? I knew this rose was fabulous!!!

i'd say, maybe 3 inches???

The thing that makes it valuable to me is that it just keeps blooming, and the foliage, here at least, is clean as a whistle. The depth of color varies a bit with the weather, but I find it interesting that the color gets paler as the bloom opens.

I'd say its only downside is the prickles.

The stems are strong and straight, and I think it would make an excellent exhibition rose.,

3inches is still big & beautiful! I look forward to mine maturing & having 3 inch blooms!!! I read it can be 4-5 inches-maybe it will bloom BIG! How tall does yours grow?

Kitty, it's not TALL, but it wants to arch out, so that I can see it being 4-ft. across.

Mr. Lopez grew all of his plants of it trimmed into standards, and that must have been spectacular.

@jerijen

Lovely! 4ft is fine. Standards must have been beautiful! I can see training it to grow into a tree form. It grows straight up right now.

Thank you!

Benny Lopez bloomed it’s 3rd time this season Aug 20, 2022…. today… Bigger blooms now -about 3inches. Still it’s first year! Except blooms to get even bigger in future….

Benny Lopez, Damask Perpetual

Very happy with it’s disease resistant healthy leaves-growing well. Now 2,ft tall.

@jerijen But you photo is still the most stunning…above…..!!!!

@portlandmysteryrose When will Burlington becdine propogating Benny L for you? It is such a delicious rose! Fragrant, sumptous fushia big plump bloons, healthy disease resistant leaves!

I'm glad you folks like it. It's rapidly becoming my husband's favorite, and may even beat out "Grandmother's Hat". For me, it is a rose without a flaw.

@jerijen Benny is sooooooo lovely! Yours has purplish colors…. Where are you in S. Cal.? Orange, County? I used to live in Arcadia! Rose gardening is wonderful there!

I am really busy now…. I recently was hired as a horticulture specialist for a rose company… M-F full-time. I advise on roses. . Not much time for Houzz friends….boo! Love seeing your gardens! Esp. Benny!

My Benny bloomed today! More blooms coming soon….It’s cooling here now…. 71F-87F this week. Maybe Benny is more fushia in cooler & purple hues in hotter CA sun? I winder if I will get some purple hyes next summer when its hotter…. Love him any color! He’s gorgeous! And soooooo healthy even in humidity & rain!

@portlandmysteryrose When do you think your Benny will arrive? Fall or spring 2023?

Benny Lopez a week ago bloomed…..

Kitty . . . I grew up in Alhambra, and El Monte. My grandmother lived in Temple City, and when I stayed with her, I could hear at night the peacocks screaming at the Arboretum/Lucky Baldwin Estate in Arcadia. . So we have some similarities of experience.

My friend Ingrid Wapelhorst, who obtained the rose from Mr. Lopez (a family friend) said that she asked MRS. Lopez what she would call the color of the rose.

She answered: "Cerise."

I agree! One of my favorite dresses, in my teens, was a cerise sundress. "Benny Lopez" is, IMHO, CERISE.

I am so very glad that people are learning about this rose.

Distribution is the only protection from extinction.

Lovely rose - thank you so much, Jeri for continuously reminding people about all of these marvelous mystery "found" roses!

Jackie

@jerijen Oh, My, I lived sooooo close to you when I was in CA! Loved looking at roses at Monrovia Nursery! I had friends in Alhambra! Ny fav place used to be to visit Laguna Beach!

That is incredible that you were friends w/ Ingrid Wopelhorst! She’s like a ”rose celebrity for Benny Lopez!” Cerise Benny Lopez!!!! Lovely color!

My it’s a small world. Do you still stay in touch w/ her??

Oh, yes!!!! The peacocks at the Arboretum! Wonderful memories! I used to drive daily past the race tracks to work on Huntington Dr and through Pasadena neighborhoods to see their rose gardens in their landscapes !!!! I’d get my ideas from their gardens. Abd kove the Long Beach Aquarium, The Hollywood Bowl, and Disney new auditorium for concerts-what do they call it now?

Yes, we have much in common!

We do!

I went to Pasadena City College, and worked in advertising at Bullocks Pasadena, and Nash's. Later, at the San Gabriel Valley Tribune. Worked for a while at All Saints Church in Pasadena, too. I loved the San Gabriel Valley.

And yes. I do still keep in touch with Ingrid. And miss her, here in Ventura County.

@jerijen It’s lovely to hear about your lifestyle in CA where I used to live and your friend, Ingrid W. it’s a small world. I was a teacher and raised my family there, as well as had many roses in my gardens. I remember Bullocks! It was a lovely store! I miss Malibu and airange County visits, warm beaches, no snow-yay, sunshine and swimming pools in backyards! Lol!