Agree with everyone. If I was suggesting roses for someone I know isn't going to take care of them, I would suggest KO or some of the newer Star Roses that have come out. Or Earthkind.

But not for me, sorry. And the mass plantings by roadsides and shopping centers, while nice as a mass display, are literal breeding ground for RRD. I passed one the other day where at least half were affected so badly I could see it from my car. Maybe that will kill them off :)

I did notice that Lowes and HD were now carrying more roses, Kordes and some other brands, even HTs. So maybe Joan Q Public is burnt out on KOs.

I wish the big box stores would step beyond the KO's here. Used to be you could find some interesting roses there, rugosas, Austins, and sometimes even an OGR or two. Now they have a ton of KO's and almost equal space goes to just a few varieties of Easy Elegance roses. (There may be space for 50 EE roses on the table, but they are of only 2 or 3 types, never anything out of the ordinary.) There is nothing wrong with any of those roses other than they are way over used. I feel badly that the public is missing out on what other types of roses can potentially add to a garden. But you know it is just the way those stores are stocked. I see the same thing in say, heucheras. You can only get two colors at our Big Box stores this year - an odd tan/rust color and a splotchy pink on purple. It is sad because a whole palette of colors in coral bells is out there - if you order on line, just like roses. How many regular folks (I mean other than the rose obsessed like us) know to do that?
At other local places that dabble in selling roses, like the local feed store or the large chain grocery/home store, you'll find totally inappropriate for our cold zone hybrid teas and large flowered climbers that will never survive to see the top of that trellis they have been so hopefully planted in front of. I guess if I had to see local people choose from what is potted and available here in town I'd rather see them with KO's and the repetitive EE's than those HT's that are going to freeze out next winter or slowly dwindle away. At least they'll be more or less successful growing the landscape roses.

This post was edited by annececilia on Sun, Jun 1, 14 at 17:06

The rose community needs to MARKET the Earthkind roses the way that Knockout has been marketed.

The non-rosarian needs to KNOW WHICH (few) roses he/she can grow as easily and successfully as Knockout.

Everytime a casual gardener tries one of the other 40,000 varieties of roses available ... and has less than stellar success ... Knockout has just won another adherent.

He/she needs a roster of (at most) ... maybe a DOZEN roses which will grow well for him/her.

My most successful rose this year in zone 5 is Carefree Beauty.

The Knock-outs were knocked out by the past winter ...

You may be right about burnout, going by what's been available & what's been selling at the local Lowes. Large displays of Knockouts seem to be lingering while HTs, floribundas & climbers are selling briskly. Good selection of Drift roses are moving, too. A promising change from recent years when Knockouts dominated the sales tables.

Better selection than the local nurseries often carry this year, including a good range of the out-of-patent roses along with newer offerings. Pleasantly surprised to find a pair of Kordes' Golden Gates among the climbers.

Scouted a local garden shop's roses only to discover they weren't watering theirs (a typical situation at my Lowes) to the point of wilt & were asking $28 for Fragant Cloud. Would have bought there if the plant was in good shape, if only in support. Stopped at Lowes & picked up a robust Fragrant Cloud for $12 on the way home...

You won't catch me ever buying a single one of these. Over my dead body!
& they had better not use them then, either, even if they hacked them down, to place them there on it. lol

I have two Double Knock outs, so I'm not totally opposed to them--and there are times when that splotch of vivid color is welcome as the other roses are resting between blooming cycles. And I agree with Monarda--the Yellow Knock Out is really rather pretty, judging by my neighbor's rose that I sometimes admire across the backyard fence. I really wouldn't object if landscapers would start substituting the Yellow Knock Out for the over-used red and pink ones.

That's called "give the devil his due"--cuz I am really becoming quite irritated with seeing Knock Outs of one kind or another EVERYWHERE! They are taking over! And I'm getting especially irritated --when I mention I grow 70 roses to someone new--that their invariable response is, that's a lot of Knock Outs! To too much of the public, roses have become synonymous with Knock Outs. There is no other rose in their minds--even when you try to explain it to them.

Kate

This post was edited by dublinbay on Sat, May 31, 14 at 10:08

I love Knockout roses, I have all colors more than 200 of them. They are my landscape roses, they give me beautiful colors through out the season. And I just purchased 23 Knockout rose trees this Spring. See how much I love them! :-) I do like my Carefree Beauty and Carefree wonder roses too, they're also my landscape roses.
Landscape roses are different, they're not born for rose shows, they are like geraniums, we all grow them and love them for their beautiful colors. By the way find some geraniums trees, they're very pretty indeed.

Lili von Shtupp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIb5872TLXo

This post was edited by michaelg on Sun, Jun 1, 14 at 10:17

I still like them a whole lot better than azaleas, which I think have become somewhat clichéd over the years.

Are you on Long Island? That's where I'm from, and in Levittown (where I grew up from age 11 on), they (azaleas) could be found in almost every front yard.

:-)

~Christopher

Michael, you are too funny. I hadn't seen that clip in ages.

Christopher: Yeah. I'm on Long Guyland. You from Joisey? What exit? :)

Maybe I'm wearing antique rose colored glasses, but I haven't seen many Knockouts in Portland gardens. (I celebrate!) I've noticed some swimming in bark mulch in gas station and fast food beds but find these Knockouts preferable to the usual swathes of sheared junipers and weirdly-pruned rhodies. When last in Dallas, TX, I spotted Knockouts dominating both private and commercial planting schemes. Like other forum members, I suspect that Earthkind roses would serve equally well and contibute to greater visual interest and preservation of antique and vintage goodies. Maybe my reply is a plug for professional designers, but really, for a few extra bucks, a business or private client can get a commercial planting plan that is unique, stimulating, attractive, and low maintenance. Personally, I'd appreciate more diversity--both in the aesthetics and the genes of the plants I encounter in the world around me. Maybe I'm part Aristotelian: Knockouts (and other overused shrubs and perennials) in moderation, please! There are, after all, more than 5 types of plant materials suited to colorful, low-care green spaces. Carol

This post was edited by PortlandMysteryRose on Sat, May 31, 14 at 20:09

I think KOs are very popular in the southeast because of the disease resistance factor, since we are in blackspot heaven. But I did hear something interesting today from a very experienced rosarian. She said that the other color KOs are not as disease resistant as the original red.

Again, it depends on what you want and how much work goes into it. There are plenty of old garden roses that have good disease resistance that make excellent landscape roses. And they have many colors, better bloom form and are sometimes fragrant.

About other plants, today I went with a friend to see another rosarian's garden, which was beautiful. On the way home we stopped at this nursery, Nearly Native, which sells almost all native plants. I was able to get some host plants for butterflies. Some that you would never see in Home Depot or Lowes. I love supporting places like that.

Buford, woo-hoo! The butterflies, independent nurseries, and I cheer you on. :-) Now if only gas station and fast food franchises would consult you before installing plants.... Carol

I am with you 1000%, David!!!! BORING! But it is a perfect example of good PR. Star Roses did such a good job of advertising it to landscapers as the perfect rose for easy care landscaping that now it's taken over. Even though there are others out there that would do just as well. But the Knock Out branding is so recognized that people don't even look at any thing else.

Mom bought one when they first came out and I kept it when she passed away but it DID black spot for me and it died this winter. All in all it required just as much care as my HTs do, sun, water, pruning and fertilizing...and spraying if I did that.

Hey! Don't knock it!!

Out.

I was in central Florida in April.

Need I say more?

Even the rather much touted rose garden at the Leu Botanical Garden in Orlando appeared to be relying on a big percentage of Knockout in the beds, as though it was thought the other kinds couldn't be depended upon.

I noticed this phenomena while at the Home Depot this year. Most of the roses were Knock Out or its derivatives. I think the reason is most people aren't like us. We're committed rosarians addicted to fragrance and beauty. The average homeowner just wants a pretty ever blooming shrub that they don't have to spray for black spot. I see this trend continuing as more and more gardeners move away from using chemicals entirely. The fact is even the Earthkind roses black spot a lot here in the Mid-Atlantic when grown without the use of fungicides.

dmny -- I'm not "from" NJ but I live here now (2 years in July). I was born in Queens, then moved to Nassau County just before 6th grade, then went back to school again and lived in Buffalo for three years before moving to New Brunswick, NJ.

:-)

~Christopher

Some of you have expressed so well exactly what I have been thinking about Knock Outs. I don't want to be a rose snob, but it is difficult not to be at times. It must have to do with marketing, because there are lots of easy to grow roses that are so much prettier than Knock Outs. I have a co-worker who had told me she wanted to plant a few roses and I was hoping she wasn't planning to go the Knock Out route, but I didn't want to interfere. A little bit later on she told me she had planted a Mister Lincoln, and I told her I was glad she didn't get a Knock Out and she let me know she wasn't fond of them and told me that was what her mother-in-law told her she should plant. She doesn't mince words and I'm sure she told her mother-in-law exactly what she thought about Knock Outs. I have noticed recently that even people who aren't big into roses are sick of Knock Outs, maybe there is hope.

My bf bought me a kordes flamigo koloscape .. way healthier then any k/o ive ever planted i do howwver enjoy there drifts. Sorru

I agree with these sentiments! The thing that really annoys me is that anymore a lot of the garden centers near me are mostly offering Knockout roses - in past years, you used to be able to find some interesting gems locally, but anymore, its just Knockout. I have even been to "heirloom" plant sales where the only roses offered were Knockouts. And honestly, I think they are shooting themselves in the foot - why would people pay $30 for a Knockout at the nursery/garden center, when they can get the exact same plant for $12.99 at Home Depot or Lowes (or heck, the grocery store, for that matter).

I think they are nice plants - I have a few, they are useful for some purposes. But they are by no means the only easy roses! And there are lots of other easy roses that are, at least imho, much prettier (prime example: Carefree Beauty, what a great rose! Or, in the right climates, most of the rugosas.) I do wish garden centers would do more to try to educate people about this.

I think the "average" flower gardener likes to follow the latest fashion--be "in style," as it were. KOs are the latest fashion, so that is what they want. They are not looking for a special rose, but for the plant that says they are fashionable (gardenwise)--and that is Knock Out roses.

In fact, for many of them, Knock Out is the only name they know--and they do like to be "in the know." Sometimes a visitor, leaning forward with interest, asks if my Eutins are Knock Outs. When I say No and begin to explain the differences, you can see the visitor lean back and eyes wander off to gaze at another part of the garden. In other words, they are not interested in roses--other than the one name they know is fashionable and makes them sound like they know what they are talking about.

That's one way I can tell a casual flower gardener from a dedicated rose gardener. : )

Kate

I think Knockouts are great roses. They are planted enmass where I live by the roadside and on commerical properties. I have even more respect for these tough roses when they seem to shrug off this past harsh winter and are currently blooming their heads off right now.

Note that Knockouts are the roses that get newbies like me into roses. They are the perfect starter rose and helps demystify the process of growing roses. I would argue that Knockouts are probably the best thing that has ever happened to the rose world: without it, a lot of gardeners would not plant roses at all. More importanlty, out of the gardners who bought these, there are bound to be a lot of them would move up to the "higher-end" market, just like me.

The sucess of Knockouts shows that an "average" gardener wants easy care, disease resistant rose. We don't want roses that have to be on constant life support and cannot thrive except in a chemical comma. No disrespect to the rosarians involved in this process: the list of AARS award winners (some of the recent winners aside) is probably the best explanation why people don't grow roses. I, for one, are gratefully that Knockouts came along and changed the game.

I have mixed feelings about them. Yes, it's a great example of marketing, but you have to remember that you can't successfully market and sell something to people who don't want it. Knock Outs have proved to the rose industry that the public WANTS roses and they WANT disease-free roses. I actually think that's a pretty great thing and I suspect that the rest of the industry is in their gerbil wheel trying to catch up.

I think for years and years many people viewed their growing roses as a badge of honor. In my local paper today their was a story about the 60th anniversary of a local garden club. One of the founders commented that she "used to grow roses back when it was difficult, before those Knock Outs that are so much easier." Rose growers were an insular group and the Knock outs have blown a hole through it! Now if others can come marching through that big hole with other options...

I'm tired of the Knock Outs, but I sure sit up and take notice when someone uses something else! One of my neighbors has used some pink drift roses around their front gate. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts it's a result of moving beyond Knock Outs.

I like the KO's in my garden. They are excellent landscape plants.

I love my azaleas. They are outstanding when in bloom. They are also great evergreen shrubs which look good 12 months a year. They have a pleasing form and texture.

I don't have time to tell others what not to grow. I am soooo tired of these anti-KO threads.

So basically farmerduck what your saying is knockouts are a gatway drug to harder and more serious roses . That knockouts are getting the kids hooked on roses and before they know it they they are searching for long lost bourbons and rooting their own cuttings soon they will be breaking in to puplic gardens to steal hips lmao jk but i here the point your making and agree

I would never tell anyone what to plant. I just went to the open garden of a real rose exhibiting champion and she has KOs in her yard. They don't appeal to me. But to each his own.

I do think that the big box stores are trying to branch out. And hopefully some of the genetics of the KO can make it's way into other roses.

I'm still not paying $35 for a David Austin in a local nursery. I will wait till they are on clearance!

I don't own any Knock Outs, but I have recommended them to other people. In some cases, any rose is better than no rose and some people just don't have the time or interest for anything beyond picking something up quickly from a garden store. For family and close friends, I always recommend and enable them to get other varieties that I've researched for them. Price is a big factor. You can get a large size, leafed out and blooming Knock Out for less than $13 here.

I think that local garden centers are a bit to blame. Here, the non-knockout bagged varieties are pretty inappropriate for our zone and climate. Maybe 1 out of 10 varieties of the bagged roses is suitable for our area.

But can we agree that, while it is nice for the big box garden centers and others to be able to offer easy growing Knock Outs to their customers, that it would be great if they could see beyond "what's in" and offer just a bit more variety to other shoppers who may be ready to "move beyond" or like the original poster are "sooooooooo tired of Knock Out?" Not everyone wants a cookie cutter garden.
And why aren't the commercial growers encouraging more of the newest disease resistant shrub roses to the garden center buyers? I'm tired of the KO bashing, too, Harryshoe. They have their place and their niche in rose history, I get it. But I keep watching the industry take this idea of easy care roses and working with it - I know there are many more roses released in recent years that are disease resistant, repeat blooming and colorful - so why aren't the biggest national sellers interested in offering variety to their customers?
That's my question. You don't think if John Q Public was to stick his nose into a FRAGRANT bloom and be told that this rose is disease resistant and low care (ok, maybe you'd have to say "just like a Knock Out") - that he wouldn't want to be the first on his block with something new and different?

This might vary from local to local, but where I live (NYC suburbs) you do see more easy care roses other than Knockouts on the market and being planted. In my towns, the main streets are lined with Knockouts, Carpet roses, Drift roses, and the Fairy roses. In the City, you can see lots of easy care roses if you know where to look. For example, not far from where I work, miles of purple Pavement roses growing along West Highway. Although local Home Depot stock non-Knockout roses that for the most part are not suitable for this area, you do see from time to time "better" varieties (e.g., Carefree Wonder, Cinco De Mayo and Easy Does It) being offered. The local Costco does a better job than HD in offering varieties that are cold hardy here and relatively more disease resistant here. Of course I don't have data or any hard hard evidence to back this up, but my gut reaction is that the trend seems to point in the "right" direction (perhaps, thanks to Knockouts).

The local independent nurseries are a mixed bag. For the most part, the operators are fairly uneducated when it comes to roses, and the one close to me, pushes Weeks' bagged roses at about $25 a pop. Ninety percent of these roses are hybrid tea that are borderline hardy here at best or not cold hardy at all. But you do see varieties like Julia Child and Sunsprite among these bagged roses. This particularly nursery would have about 50 or 60 various varieties on offerings, including potted Austins, every year. My guess is that 90% of what they sell would be great roses elsewhere, but they are garbage here for the "average" garden. If Knockouts crowd out these "garbage" roses or kill nurseries knowingly sell these year after year for eternity just because they can, good riddance!

One tends to see what wants to see, but I do feel that the success of Knockouts might be creating a market for other easy care roses (and for the not so-easy care roses as well). I do see why Knockouts can be boring/offensive to some, but I am grateful that Knockouts are making tens of thousands gardeners, me included, take a second look at roses.

I find the name "Knockout" to be offensive. I assume the word has something to do with Baseball - a part of the sports sickness helping to destroy America. I'm sure the name was a cynical ploy to make it 'OK' for gender-obsessed men to buy and plant roses.

Sadly, the ploy seems to have worked. I think the giant corporate entity worked as hard selecting a name, as it did in developing that frankenrose.

I like to think of gardeners - and particularly rosarians - as being gentle free-thinkers. The "Knockout" marketing scheme seems to have been aimed at group-think types who are the antithesis of horticulturists.

And yes: the presence of frankenroses in every boulevard median and strip mall planting island means that the RRD Mites won't have far to fly, and will thus, far more quickly, make it (theoretically) from my Clotilde Soupert to your Silver Moon.

They are available over here but are not remotely ubiquitous anywhere. However, a couple of points - all those feeling mortified by the presence of Knockout roses need to spend a little time perusing the general landscape plantings across the EU (we call them amenity or municipal plantings - I guarantee you will look afresh at your roses - ROSES!, compared to our feeble hebes (non-flowering) dreadful clumps of spirae, skimmia, hideous spotted laurels and other assorted vaguely green clumps which festoon every car park, traffic island, kerbside and common ground. Frankly, I would give my eye-teeth (if I still had 'em) for some relief from the deadly dire lack of imagination and colour which sends me to sleep with boredom (unless I am frothing with disdain).
Secondly, whatever is the matter with you - a rose which reblooms well, does not require spraying daily, grows to a nice mannerly size.....what is so hateful about that! True, we have our own ubiquitous versions (Bonica, Sommerwind, Kent) but who cares - I could gaze upon acres of Sommerwind rather than be forced to stare at yet another scrubby hebe or grim clump of eunymous.
Also, they are not even slightly deserving of the term 'frankenrose'.

Now, I am as guilty of horticultural snobbery as everyone, possibly even more so, and yep, I am always looking for diversity in my own gardens but for general landscaping use, nothing lights up the area like a blast of vivid scarlet or sunny yellow....and Knockouts are hardy and vigorous to be grown in tight groupings with other perennials (grasses, for example can look stunning, interspersed with Knockouts). Their mauintenance is a doddle - a quick shearing with hedgetrimmers (I have seen a hedging flail used) and I would particularly like to see them decorating traffic islands, with variagated dogwoods, hakone grass, geums.
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with these roses apart from their ubiquity....a failure of imagination and planning rather than anything wromng with these roses themselves.

I know this posting is showing my brass neck since not many are as opinionated as myself....but I never like to see plants condemned to dismissal (given the absolute dominance of Austins, for example, you might think that both the horticutural industry and the general public had never heard of any other types of rose) while Knockouts even have the vast virtue of excellent health (more than can be said for Austins). A bit like arguing for sharing music on pirate peer to peer networks - the smart money always recognises that it is worth disseminating things for free since eventually interest will be awakened and people will dig into their pockets once lured in - Knockouts perform the same service - they promote growing roses and educate the public into giving up erroneous ideas that roses are specialist difficult plants.
And if you don't like them in your garden, no-one is making you plant them.
Not edited for dodgy spelling since I am still in shock after my weekend ordeal (will post on that later)>

I think that local garden centers are a bit to blame. Here, the non-knockout bagged varieties are pretty inappropriate for our zone and climate. Maybe 1 out of 10 varieties of the bagged roses is suitable for our area.

Correct ...

And novices who wish to try growing these roses end up with plants which struggle for a year, ... and die back to the the Baby Huey root-stock over the winter.

In a year, ... they become prime Knockout candidates.

I was not impressed with Knockout when they first came out.

But after a couple years of trying to coax success out of a few "higher quality" roses, .... I was ready to try Knockouts.

Actually, I took a fifteen-year hiatus from roses altogether in the intervening years. I was convinced that I would never plant another rose.

Unfortunately, there is a dearth of good information out there for the buying public about roses. Those who are interested in "SELLING" THE PUBLIC are much more VOCAL ...

There will need to be a good, market-savvy educational plan if we wish to overcome this ...

... or ...

... a COUPLE of alternative "CHAMPION" roses need to be promoted to be marketed against KNOCKOUT.

{{gwi:273067}}
Carefree Beauty

I think that local garden centers are a bit to blame. Here, the non-knockout bagged varieties are pretty inappropriate for our zone and climate. Maybe 1 out of 10 varieties of the bagged roses is suitable for our area.

Correct ...

And novices who wish to try growing these roses end up with plants which struggle for a year, ... and die back to the the Baby Huey root-stock over the winter.

In a year, ... they become prime Knockout candidates.

I was not impressed with Knockout when they first came out.

But after a couple years of trying to coax success out of a few "higher quality" roses, .... I was ready to try Knockouts.

Actually, I took a fifteen-year hiatus from roses altogether in the intervening years. I was convinced that I would never plant another rose.

Unfortunately, there is a dearth of good information out there for the buying public about roses. Those who are interested in "SELLING" THE PUBLIC are much more VOCAL ...

There will need to be a good, market-savvy educational plan if we wish to overcome this ...

... or ...

... a COUPLE of alternative "CHAMPION" roses need to be promoted to be marketed against KNOCKOUT.

{{gwi:273067}}
Carefree Beauty

They will receed in popularity and go away, as all common cultivars eventually do. 100 years from now, some rose rustler will rediscover a big healthy specimen, propagate it, share the plants, and rosarians will grow and enjoy it, and wonder why it ever faded away from gardens everywhere.

Oh, so true! That made me laugh, HoovB.

Personally, I like the yellow knockouts--very pretty especially en masse.

Anne

Knockouts lack grace, soul if you will and that hedge trimming does not help, no scent, no grace, no soul. If the sole objective is to see a bright blotch of color, they are satisfactory but so is a bright red billboard with even less maintenance. A garden is a place to be surrounded by beauty of scent, form , color and movement. This aura can be augmented by many types of roses but not by Knockouts. A Knockout is to be viewed, period. However, if Knockouts are a "gateway drug" to the art of gardening, they have a very valuable role in garden history. I do not hate Knockouts but I do not love them either. Does anyone really love a Knockout or are they only ever merely a practical compromise?

Cath

Knockouts can be quite lovely, particularly the doubles.

They're a bit easy, .... but a beauty can be easy ...

Speaking of pushing aside other 'named' varieties (btw I discovered some nurseries selling only KO roses call anything other than KO 'heirloom')...I called a huge nursery near us when we moved here, assuming they must have a good selection of roses. I asked what roses they have. They said...'oh yes! we have pink knockout rose, yellow knockout rose, white knockout rose. come on in!'.

I asked about the named varieties (which I had to explain a few times before she understood) and she said 'well we don't carry those anymore because no one bought them so now we only carry KO'.

I love beauty as much as the next gardener, but nothing can replace the personality of unique rose varieties for me. KO roses have their place in the landscape, and they are great for people who don't care to do much work, but it's so sad to hear that nurseries only carry them--what does that mean for the roses of the future?

We have three in our yard from the prev owner, they are pretty to be sure, but I won't be buying more, too many other varieties to try (and maybe fail) with.

My sentiments, exactly, Portia.

Knock Out and other, similar varieites may prove to be the death knell of many roses where people are satisfied with one rose. I doubt that it will be the "gateway drug" for people to grow other roses. Newbies who experience Knock Out will quickly grow tired of other roses that require more care and get turned off from roses altogether. These customers just want color in their yard, not soul or grace or elegance.

Ironic, isn't it? That Star Roses, who market Knock Out, may find itself losing sales of their other roses to Knock Out, leaving them dependent on one variety.

I feel sad about this whole Knock Out thing, i.e., on it's possible impact on rose growing. The whole culture of gardening roses could suffer. I am reminded of a poem I learned years ago:

So in the Libyan fable it is told
That once an eagle, stricken with a dart,
Said, when he saw the fashion of the shaft,
"With our own feathers, not by others' hands,
Are we now smitten."

There is a restaurant I pass on the way to work with some island-planting along the sidewalk, one of which includes 'Pink Double Knock Out' in a beautiful ensemble including other things. I'll have to take pics tomorrow on my way to work.

I know I said that I'm among those who find them boring, I should amend that to mean "...when used in broad swaths as bedding plants." To be honest, I'm bored with that whole style, anyway -- I like tangled mixed plantings. But I will have to show you all that they CAN be incorporated into something that becomes rather beautiful -- if you're looking for just easy-care color.

:-)

~Christopher

Chris, yup the three that the prev owner planted are the double pink (bright pink) so I put blue salvia and feverfew amongst it for some combination contrast. Of course one day I may need that space for 'heirloom' roses but we'll see. ;)

Actually there already is a general reaction AGAINST Knock Outs starting out there--fed by the rumor that Knock Outs are susceptible to RRD. As news about that virus circulates, more and more beginner rose gardeners tend to back off in horror at those disease-plagued Knock Outs (in their opinion).

For the record, Knock Outs are no more susceptible to RRD than any other roses are.

Kate

Indianapolis planted enslaved island plantings of KOs all along 38th St. Not sure what else to describe such horrible design as.

After our winter they're all dripping into the roads. Some have been lashed back to protect car and pedestrian alike and now resemble vases of thorny canes while others lie as they were apparently broken by the snow plows.

I think like any plant a KO can be fine for it's space (right plant in the right space mindset) but it's terrible they way they've been incorporated into the sort of municipal mass-planting I've described where they languish when needing even basic care and just become eyesores. They're just waiting to be a vector of infection of some sort or another (and certainly not infecting any impressionable child with the joy of gardening when they are in such a state).

The above live-and-let-live stated...I do admit that when my mother-in-law responded to me encouraging her to add some Canadian roses to her planting this year by stating that she wanted KO you can be assured my eyes rolled maybe just a bit.

~Anika

They say a picture's worth a thousand words.This one shows why I'm no longer a fan of Knock Out roses. The Japanese beetles clearly favor it over my Scarlet Carpet rose planted right next to it. They do nibble on the buds of my Yellow Carpet rose and a few of my Champlain roses but don't destroy them as they do all of my KO's.

I yanked all my knockouts out this spring except 2, the original cherry red knockout roses that are growing in partial shade and add a nice punch of color, to make room for roses whose sent is as beautiful as its flowers. Winter kill on them was absolutely horrific, plus the JBs loved the pink knockout roses in my garden. Even my Buck rose "Folksinger" which has weathered much colder winters than this one suffered with winter kill to the ground, but being own root after pruning down to about 4 inches from the ground it is recovering beautifully and sporting buds already. I'll be planting some Austins for their luscious scent and exquisite flowers plus some other less fussy (hopefully) roses like Julia Child, Bolero, Macy's Pride, Zepherine Drouhin, Darlow's Enigma, which is bullet proof and smells so sweet, Cl "Compassion" and The Fairy. I have some Kordes Fairy Tale roses that did well over the winter and "Heritage" came through once again. I have too little yard space that offers the best sunlight for roses and am not willing to give up the space for such a mundane, and yes, overused, rose.

Knockouts are so boring. When we bought our house I planted some David Austin and some peace roses and my husband was so amaze because he never seen anything so amazing. His mom only grow knockouts.

I'd love to try the Zepherne Droughin - had a friend in TN with one that she lost over the winter though so I'm wondering if it would survive in New England Z5? I tried some of the Amber peach-colored Flower Carpet rose in our driveway last year - was worried that this years deep freeze and plowing may have damaged them but they're fine now. I had to cut them all the way back to the ground with the winter kill but they're in full bloom now.