Ellen,

I"m not a big fan of miracle grow but I have used it in the past. I found a supplier for pro mix this year and iI love it! I won't use miracle grow even in a pinch anymore. Thanks for the info.

Lisa

Ellen: That opens a big can of worms. Biggest problem is, I think, that most people practice chemical gardening. They have used MG ferts and potting soils for years and, as a result, megacorporation Monsanto blossomed. Now it's a supply and demand thing- for many people, MG is all that's available to them in some markets- aka monopoly.

I used Pro-Mix for several years and was happy with it. I bought it at my local Home Depot. They aren't carrying it this year, the only potting mix they have is MG. I bought a small bag of it only because I couldn't buy anything else. I will continue to look for the ProMix locally but won't order online and pay more for shipping than the cost of the mix itself. Shipping rate on PM is outrageous (size plus weight). Few people could afford that.

Karen

Miracle Gro is a Scotts-Miracle Gro Company product is it not? I am trying to unweave the tangled corporate web online, but their only connection I could find to Monsanto was their Roundup product.

If you have a link that has details to the contrary though, I'd like to see it.

Karen -

BFG grower supply sells promix by the bale. They are a wholesaler so most of what that sell has to be purchased in case quantities. Fortunately they consider a single bale of promix to be super sized enough for them to sell the bales individually.

There is a branch in Xenia Ohio near Dayton.

I think they also sell bulk packs of those fancy planters with all of the holes in the sides that you wrote about last summer.

As for Miracle Gro, boy has the quality of that just nosedived in the past 5 years. I had to use a couple of bags to WS when I was out of good stuff this year. I wish I had driven up to Xenia right away for the promix at that time.

It doesn't hold moisture evenly like my Promix or my Sunshine mix. My germination levels in the Miracle Gro are much poorer than in the other mixes (from rapid drying in closed containers). And my HOSs in Miracle Gro need to be watched much more closely for drying out than the others.

And don't get me started on the rocks, bark and sticks in Miracle Gro. It's not enough that you have to pay for nutritionally bankrupt stuff with a bit of fertilizer juiced in - then they give you sticks and rocks as a booby prize!

I will never again risk wasting a seed in that stuff when Promix and other good stuff are always in stock at BFG. Yhere's quite a few locations in the Midwest - see the link if you need them.

Lynda

Here is a link that might be useful: BFG web site with catalog and locations tabs

Not to bash MG, but I posted somewhere here before that they're like sponge. I really had a hard time sowing my seeds. I was even told that seeds will slowly go down during the freeze and thaw. However, they're still on top and I don't see any germination.

I do see 70% of my promix containers with seedlings. :)

The more I read online, the more I find the claim that Miracle Gro is "owned" by Monsanto to be incorrect.

Miracle Gro products are owned by the Scotts Miracle-Gro Company. They are a publicly traded company headquarted in Ohio. Monsanto is a completely different, publicly-traded company headquarted in Missouri. Scotts has the exclusive rights to Roundup in the United States, which is a Monsanto product. You can see this association by the copyrights on Scott-MG website for their Roundup products. Monsanto does not make Miracle Gro, does not have copyrights to anything associated with it, therefore I do not think they have anything to do with the product.

As for the quality of the MG mix, I find it to be inconsistent at best. A couple years ago it was ok. Last year I bought a bag that was full of wood chips. This year I went with a few bags of Agway-brand mix which was more expensive and was even worse (practically mulch), and went back to MG because it was the only stuff I could find in February. This year's batch was ok, and didn't have nearly the amount of wood and other debris that I saw last year. If I could get ProMix locally I would. Unfortunately I've never seen it around here, and I'm not paying to ship potting mix.

I love MG and use it every year with great success.

Before I ever stop buying a product I like, I stop and think about the consequences.

A while ago, people around me were talking about a gas boycott. Oh great... prices are through the roof, why not? The problem is simple... before we effect the people who we actually want to "get back at", how many workers will be effected? How many franchise owners will go out of business? Are we sure that the "Wall Street" guys will actually be able to "fix" what is wrong?

Maybe Monsanto is an unscrupulous company, but their name is not on my bag of Miracle Grow. Neither are the names of those actually responsible for the "misdeeds".

If you really want to voice anger, please folks, direct it toward the right people and think about who else it might effect.

Perhaps your Senators might be the ones who can really make a difference. People are being sued... well then, a case obviously went to court... who was the judge and what did he base his decision on?

Think about this folks! Who is to blame? Is it me for using Miracle Grow? Is it the workers who make it?

Donning my newbie flame suit:

Scotts is not owned by Monsanto. Monsanto has an agreement, dating back to a 1998 separation of its Pharmacia business unit, for Scotts to market Monsanto's lawn-and-garden herbicides (chiefly Roundup). If you really want to see the details, they are in Monsanto's 2008 annual report.

http://www.monsanto.com/investors/financial_reports/annual_report/2008/default.asp

Here's a link

Here is a link that might be useful: monsanto-miracle grow

Remember folks, getting sued and getting a judgment are vastly different things.

Bakemom, exactly!
Here's what I found out about the most famous case involving Monsanto:

The 1998 case was portrayed in the media as a classic David and Goliath confrontation. In March 2001, Supreme Court Judge W. Andrew MacKay ruled that Schmeiser had violated Monsanto's genetically engineered patent. "This is very good news for us, Mr. Schmeiser had infringed on our patent." said Monsanto's Trish Jordan.

The court rejected Monsanto's claim for damages and did not impose punitive damages on Schmeiser, which would not have been expected in a case involving a new question of law. The case did cause Monsanto's enforcement tactics to be highlighted in the media over the years it took to play out. [42]

In 2008, Monsanto agreed to pay the Schmeiser $660 to settle the original small-claims court case for the cost of removing the patented Roundup Ready canola from their field in 2005. Monsanto had offered to settle the case in 2005, but Schmeiser refused the original offer because it required that the couple sign a release stating they would never discuss the case or the terms of the agreement.[43] In the settlement, Monsanto Canada assumed no liability. [44]

Here is a link that might be useful: wiki

Miracle grow is mostly what I can buy. I sometimes can find others but I read a lot of people use MG so that is what I got. I will try something else next year maybe a combo and see what does better. I thought MG was what worked from some posts I read.

karen

Lynda: thanks for that BFG link but Xenia isn't exactly what I call local. By mapquest 69 miles, 1 hr and 23 min. each way.

Called Lowes, a few feed stores and garden centers and none have promix. Only worm's way.

Worm's Way does have it but at $41 this year.

Karen

Karendee, this thread really has nothing to do with what product works better for winter sowing, and several sowers do use Miracle Gro.

Since this really has nothing to do with sowing, I wonder if conversations wouldn't be a better place for it - on topic posts go down the line fast enough with containers germinating just now without pushing them out of the way for off topic threads.

I've never been able to find pro-mix in Atlanta, GA. Home Depot only carries Miracle Gro. Low's carries Sta-Green and Jungle Growth. I've had good results with both.

I don't necessarily think that boycott's ever work. Using proper channels like writing to your local politicians can.

Morz8, I agree with you that this is not a real discussion on WS or what product works better than another.

Many WS's including myself use Miracle grow and nothing but.

I go by the old "if it ain't broke, don't fix". I've had near 100% germination with miracle grow potting mix.
Only once have I had a bag that was a problem with sticks and stones. I called Scotts and was pleasantly surprised to have my purchase price refunded, coupons sent for free bags of miracle grow potting mix and coupons that took of $4.00 on further purchase of any Scott product.

Scotts is not owned by Monsanto but rather went into agreement with Monsanto for exlcusive rights to the sale of certain Monsanto products that include:
Roundup
Ortho proudcuts

Miracle products and name where purchased from a separate company years before this agreement with Monsanto

Scotts also has osmocote as well.

An agreement between 2 companies, does not make one own the other.

It has been stated many, many times before that Monsanto owns Scotts and that is not the truth.

Pro mix is far to expensive for my wallet and with the number of containers I put out every year, miracle grow is what has given me near 100% germination for 5 years of WS and I don't expect anything different in year 6.

I use it for all my containers as well, including my Toms, cukes, peppers, etc. and have never had a complaint.

I containers dry out to quickly, you should be using deeper containers with more soil and not putting them in direct sun all day.

My WS containers go in full sun from the time they go out, till the time they are transplanted and I never have a problem with the soil drying out to quickly either.

Boycotts, rarely if ever work, and to boycott a company under false accusations is not only wrong, it's not fair or right.

Fran

Is my math off here? 7 cu ft = 179 dry quarts, right?

Re cost: Miracle Grow around $10 for 32 dry qt
Promix $40 for 7 cu feet

So It would take about 5.5 bags of MG ($55) to equal the same volume, 7 cu ft of promix ($40).

Am I wrong here Fran?

Well kind of, yes. The size bag of MG you chose is very small. I got a 64 qt for a little over $10 or $12. Lowes has the MG 32 qt size for $8.82.

You are wrong for what I buy and pay for.

I buy 2 cubic foot bags of miracle grow potting mix.

That is 51.4 cubic feet of miracle grow potting mix and the price I pay for 1 bag ranges from $6.99 -$8.99 per bag, depending on where I purchase it and if it is on sale.

Last fall, in Oct I purchased 12 bags, 2 cubic foot bags and paid $6.99 per bag.

Even if I paid the highest price I have seen for miracle grow potting mix in the 2 cubic foot bags at $9.79 a bag last year, it still comes out to far less than the price you have posted.

Of course if you buy smaller bags, then you pay more and your prices may be correct. I have never purchased nor do I know the prices of small bags of miracle grow potting mix.

The 2 cubic foot bags and sometimes there is a bonus and it is 2 1/2 cubic feet in the bag for the price of the 2, is readily available.

Fran

OK, I'm really trying to make sense of this. It's apparently the conversion from dry qt to cu ft that I'm hung up on.

ProMix 7 cu ft = $40. Got that strait.

Miracle Grow
nancy drew: you say $10 or $12, let's pick average $11 for 64 dry qt.
64 qt= 2.4 cu ft, so you need 2.91 bags to equal promix.
that would be $33.

fran:
"I buy 2 cubic foot bags of miracle grow potting mix.
That is 51.4 cubic feet of miracle grow potting mix"
How can 2 ct ft = 51 cu ft?

The MG I saw was marked in dry qt not cu ft. It was their organic choice.

On Home Depot website
MG 2.5 cu ft = $12.47. So it would take 3.2 of these 2.5 cu ft bags to equal promix volume.
3.2 x $12.47 = $39.90

So, equal volumes of promix and MG are same price. Right?

Karen

Here is a link that might be useful: home depot

Sorry Karen, that was supposed to be 51.4 dry quarts. In my rush of trying to finish getting dinner I posted incorrectly.

The price you have quoted is much higher than is being sold in the local stores and the website for home depot says that prices will vary in stores.

2 home depot stores within 7 miles of my home both have the miracle grow potting mix in 2.5 cu ft bags for under $10, which makes the price less than the pro mix.

My local true value store has the 2 cubic foot bags for under $9 and that is the regular price, going on sale in 2 weeks again for under $8

The local Kmart had the 2 cu ft bags for $8.29 regular price

Walmart has the same size bags for under $10 as well.

Another point to make is that the miracle grow bags are far easier to manage and easier to use that huge bales of pro mix. And much easier to store in a cellar as well.

Many of us do our WS from our Kitchens. There is now I could carry up a bale of pro mix from my cellar to my kitchen to WS.

Compressed bales take time to soak up water to be able to use. When I WS for a day, I am putting out between 50-100 containers that day.
I don't have time to take out the pro mix and mix it with water to get it wet so that I can fill containers and sow the seeds, then get them outside.

Miracle grow soaks water quickly, in a minute or 2. Is draining out in my kitchen sink, seeds go in, covers go on, depending on the container and out they go without any wasted time in soaking anything.

Karen, you keep trying to prove the point that pro mix is the same price and or less than miracle grow and you keep looking to find high prices to prove your point.
The organic miracle grow is more money than the regular potting mix as well and I believe the miracle grow with moisture control may also be more.

You really aren't going to win the point that you are trying to make. Miracle grow potting mix goes on sale constantly from now through the fall.

WS that use miracle grow potting mix stock up on their supply towards the end of the summer into the fall for the next year when the soil is on sale.

Pro mix is not readily available to everyone, nor do I want to or intend to go searching around for it and driving to various locations in an attempt to buy it and get it home, only to have no one to get it out of the car for me, a place to store it and no ability to bring it up from my cellar to my kitchen to use.

For some reason you seem to be obsessed with trying to get people to stop using miracle grow potting mix based on the misconception that Monsanto owns Scotts and miracle grow which is not true.

As Bakemom said and I have to agree, I love miracle grow potting mix and well over 5,000 containers of WS seedlings prove the point, I barely have a germination problem in any of those past 5,000 plus containers that have been WS and expect nothing different with this years 800 plus cotainers.

As the old saying goes "if it ain't broke, don't fix". Miracle grow potting mix has been my best friend with WS and gardening and I am not changing it now.

Fran

No, Fran, not at all. No political agenda involved against MG as a product. But I really don't like the fact that the company has become such a huge conglomerate that it's an effort to find anything else. I shop at Kroger, it's my favorite local grocery. But they are getting huge around here and many other groceries have closed. For that reason I do occasionally go to other chains to give them some support. I like having an option, some competition is healthy.

A positive comment about MG: I like that they're finally recognizing that a large segment of the population is looking for organic options, and they have responded to that with a few organic choices. That's why I bought the organic MG product. It was the only organic choice when I was at HD and I had dragged my husband there with me to carry that huge bale of promix. And yes, that huge bale is cumbersome for me too. But once home it sits in my basement where I sow. Fortunately I have a husband to lug it there for me.

I don't care what you use. What you choose to use is isn't the point, it was that you said it's cheaper, and it always seems so much more expensive to me than the compressed bale of promix. Kinda like 2 small bottles of ketchup brand x are usually more $ than one bottle of Heinz at twice the size even if brand x is cheaper in same size bottles.

I was really trying to "get" the concept of MG being cheaper. When I googled "MG potting mix" the first hit was the Scott's site, the second was Home Depot. HD is usually about the cheapest place available to me, so I used their site. Google it- HD comes first, that's all. And since I've been buying PM at Home Depot since I started WSing, I assumed that they'd have it this year too. I was shocked that they stopped carrying it.

The other thing that confused me when at a store is the dry qt vs. cu ft thing. Without an online calculator at hand I never seem to be able to convert the two for price comparison.

Karen

Well, I honestly don't care who owns Miracle Gro. I just don't like that it's not the same quality product that I used in the past.

With winter sowing this year so far I've up 2 bales of Pro-Mix, 6 bags of Miracle Gro and 6 bags of Sunshine mix. (Bags were around 3 cu ft each). With uniform sized containers with three inches of soil in the bottom, put out in the same part of the yard there is an obvious difference in germination levels and how even the moisture retention is.

Miracle Gro does not perform as well for me as the other two.

It could be possible that Miracle Gro has more than one manufacturing center and that I actually am getting a different product now that I'm not on the east coast anymore. I don't know. I just know that it used to be lovely stuff, and in the past few years the bags I've bought aren't as good and have big sticks and stones in them.

It's just really disappointing to go out in the yard and be able to spot the Miracle Gro containers from a distance because they are the ones with poorer germination. Not total washouts, just sparse hunks of seeds compared to the other two types of mix. Enough to convince me that it's worth a road trip to stock up with an alternative for my sowing needs. And that road trip is 120 - 180 miles round trip depending on where I go to buy supplies.

That doesn't mean that if someone else is happy with their results that they should change. But if they are unhappy with Miracle Gro there are alternatives and in my case those alternatives are working a whole lot better.

Lynda

Good heavens Lynda, you use more potting mix than professional nurseries. That's what happens when you qualify for your own zone, Zone Lynda!

Did you like the Sunshine Mix? I picked up a bag of it at a local nursery today. It's their own custom blend that they use for seed starting. They had a bag dumped out on a huge tray, in current use for sowing. It seemed nice and fluffy. I paid $12 for a 2.8 cu ft. professional size bag.

Karen

Karen - I really love the Sunshine mix. We use the LT 5 version.

Sunshine is my absolute favorite, but in terms of WS performance bot Promix and Sunshine got the job done equally well for me. I'm happy using either.

But that Sunshine is still my favorite. :)

Lynda

Thanks, Lynda, good to hear. What I bought was a custom blend ordered by this particular nursery for seed starting. Not sure what I got (the seed starting lady wasn't there when I stopped in) but it seems nice and fluffy. Looks peat based.

I can't find the LT5 on their website. Is it a peat one, bark, coir? Just curious.

Glad to hear that it's a good brand, though. Is $12 a decent price for the 2.8 cu ft?

Karen

If you are interested in securing ProMix locally, please see my thread entitled What I Learned About Pro Mix. There you will see that the best way to find ProMix is to talk to your state's FIELD sales representative. Don't get off the phone until you have spoken to that person because he or she is the only one who can tell you ALL the places to find it locally. (I can't imagine paying for shipping either.)

The computer search function on the ProMix website is incomplete. It only lists retailers who meet certain volume requirements. Likewise speaking to a PHONE representative at ProMix will not get you the answers you are looking for. They are very courteous, but don't have the retailer names that a FIELD representative does. Your FIELD representative can also give you the names of local greenhouses who use it and may be willing to sell it to you.

I might add that MY field rep was very glad to hear from me, and was intrigued by the idea of Winter Sowing. He was a former greenhouse grower and was pleased to hear that someone felt so strongly about his product, even if it was to sow in milk jugs.

I just happened to do a cost comparison this weekend and will share.

1. ProMix BX, available in Oklahoma City at Estes Chemical. A 2.8 cubic foot bag equals 79 liters equals 83 quarts. At $14 per 2.8 cubic foot bag the price per unit comes to $5 per CF, $0.18 per liter, and $0.168 per quart.

2. Miracle Grow Potting Mix, available in Midwest City, OK at Home Depot. A 2.5 cubic foot bag equals 70 liters equals 74 quarts. At $12.47 per 2.5 cubic foot bag the price per unit comes to $4.99 per cubic foot, $0.178 per liter and $0.168 per quart.

3. Miracle Grow Moisture Control Potting Mix, available at Sam's Club Oklahoma City. A 1.8 cubic foot bag equals 50 liters equals 55 quarts. At $12.47 per 55 quart bag the price per unit comes to $6.23 per cubic foot, $0.22 per liter and $0.204 per quart.

For me, the ProMix at Estes and Miracle Grow at HD are the same price per CF. That makes the choice clear. ProMix.

As a side note, I bought a broken bag of Miracle Grow Organic Potting Mix because it was half price and an inexpensive opportunity to broaden my horizons. I think it would be just fine for potted plants, but I found it way too course and chunky for sowing seeds.

I agree with morz8. Discussions about choice of potting mix for success reasons and where to get it are On Topic to Winter Sowing. Conversations about corporate conglomerates, and who owns what are best suited for Conversations. There's also a great forum called Hot Topics. It's another good place to talk about named corporations.

Karen - the LT5 is their formulation for tobacco seedling sowing. We got it through Good Seed Farm in Peebles, OH. (Great place - worth a day trip for you.) They suggested this one when we contacted them looking for a high quality seed starting mix without stick and rocks in it.

It IS a seed starting mix, not a potting mix, so is finer than potting mixes and doesn't contain long acting fertilizers. Not a problem for us since we plant out early. It's peat based and has a bit of perlite. They have the wetting agent just perfect too.

It was pricier than our ProMix. It cost us about $15 per bag but I'm OK with that if it gets me great germination.

I'm starting to run a bit low on it (sowed at least 6 bags of it so far and have maybe 4 more bags left) so when I start sowing tender annuals next week the expensive or less common seeds get the Sunshine mix and stuff I have in abundance (home seed saved zinnias and white marigolds) will go in our homemade mix of Connie the Cow compost and perlite. (Which is a mighty high quality potting mix too.)

I'd like to hold back 2 bags of the Sunshine mix for future years for any indoor sowing we do - using Park biodomes with the styrofoam inserts filled with Sunshime mix and not the nasty sponge things Park sells for them That works great for eggplants and peppers we want to start early under lights. 2 bags of Sunshine mix should be enough to fill our 11 biodomes for the next 20 years or so!

Next year's winter sowing will be smaller scale for me but we will be transitioning to doing a lot more of our vegetable starting with WS. We'll use our homemade compost/perlite mix for that and should be totally weaned off of commercial potting mix. We've got a very nice, light, aged compost and will sieve, bag, mix with perlite, and store in the garage for WS needs.

There's no question that the potting mix this year was a significant expense. But with 2638 containers so far this year and all of the half hardy and tender annuals left to sow the cost of potting mix is dwarfed by the cost of my time invested in all of this. I needed to rely on purchased potting mix because there just would not have been enough time to put up our own this year.

I used Miracle Gro to sow during the time when I was waiting for an order of Sunshine mix to come in and before I found those two bales of Promix in a far corner of the local feed store. And I'm really paying for it now. I need to watch the planted out Miracle Gro HOSs so much more closely than the ones in the other mixes because our garden soil is dry and the MG gives up it's moisture so easily. An then there's the sparser germination levels so the HOSs (in their drying plug of MG) have fewer sprouts. If I don't check those plants each day, and usually water each day I'll lose them.

A lot of this isn't going to matter with someone who's got a normal sized garden and wants a normal amounts of plants. And there is a lot to be said for not having to drive 60 miles to Peebles to pick up a special order of Sunshine mix the morning before an ice storm comes through (and wipes out your power for 8 days, grumble grumble). And I have a hubby who was happy to carry the ProMix bales for me and doesn't mind me storing an opened (dry) bale in a huge rubbemaid chest in the kitchen, and doesn't mind me mixing it up 5 gallons at a time in a bucket in the kitchen sink.

Miracle Gro is an easy to find product, in stock at certain times a year in many places, consistent (even if not to my taste), in bag sizes to suit most people, and is generally a bit better quality than a mix like Walmart's store brand.

I really don't need it to be a part of my sowing and growing program, though.

Lynda

Wow, you people are thorough. You don't mess around. That's quite a price comparison Seedmama, and interesting about talking to the sales rep. I haven't opened the MG organic yet but will put that aside for summer pots per your advice.

Lynda, you do a good job of finding what you want, too, considering that you're in such a rural spot. I decided I couldn't possibly need another 7 cu ft of ProMix this year so that's why I bought the Sunshine Mix to try. I hope I like it as much as you do. (When I go to nurseries and ask what they use for their own seeds/plants not one has ever said Miracle Grow, even though they might be selling it).

Have to finish this house cleaning so I can play in dirt. Taking a lunch break now. I just didn't want to sit around looking at my dirty/messy house all day on Easter.

Thanks for the input Lynda and Seedmama.

Karen

About Monsanto:
from: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/268740

Monsanto is well known in the farming world for its genetically modified (GMO) seeds. Stories often crop up in the media about the company urging farmers to use its products. If they don't, it's more difficult for them to farm.
In a democracy, a farmer should have the right to use any seed of their choice. But in a world with Monsanto, that is increasingly more difficult, as the company is reportedly urging farmers to use Monstanto-only products.

According to blogger Linn Cohen-Cole, Monsanto allegedly uses the following methods to get farmers to stick with Monsanto products:

1.) Monsanto has purchased most of the seed companies across the U.S. Midwest, making it difficult for farmers to purchase anything other than a Monsanto product

2.) With the help of legislators, they have written Monsanto seed laws, making the cleaning, collecting and storing of seeds extremely cumbersome.

3.) Monsanto is allegedly helping pushing anti-democracy laws that will remove community control over counties, so farmers or citizens cant block anyone from planting GMO seeds, even if they contaminate other crops. See where these laws have been passed in the U.S.

4.) Monsanto has incorporated some FDA regulations that make farmers' seed-cleaning equipment illegal because it's a "source of seed contamination." Most farmers cannot afford to have separate cleaning equipment for each type of seed.

5.) Monsanto is picking up seed cleaners across the U.S. Midwest, making it impossible for farmers to use their own seeds. Many farmers have no choice but to buy GMO crops from Monsanto for the first year and pay royalties for the remaining years.

Linn said Monsanto has sued more than 1,500 farmers whose fields have been contaminated by GMO crops.

One Indian native, Vandana Shiva, is fighting Monsanto with a "Seed Satyagraha," a non-violent movement similar to the Salt-Satyagraha employed by IndiaÂs Mahatma Gandhi to fight the salt tax law that imposed taxes on salt by their British rulers. She is trying to break MonsantoÂs monopoly laws and has received more than one million signatures from farmers.

---ellen

OMG! Ellen, I can't get over this. Why do you continue to bash not only my choice... yes, MY CHOICE of growing medium but Miracle Grow and any company that may or MAY NOT be associated with them? You have repeatedly spread lies... that have already been proven as just that, LIES about Monsanto and Miracle Grow along with Scotts.

TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE! Frankly I am done with not only this BS argument, I am done reading anything posted by YOU!

I really wish the powers that be would start deleting this crap!

To set the record straight... Monsanto does not OWN Scotts or Miracle Gro. Monsanto does, however, have a marketing agreement with Scotts, whereby Scotts is Monsanto's exclusive agent for the marketing and distribution of consumer Roundup. There is absolutely no relationship between Miracle Gro and Monsanto. And NO, I'm not a fan of Miracle Gro.