Not total, but considerable. I spray my RdV, but my sister grows it no spray. I think BS hurts its repeat, but each spring it gives her a wonderful show. If you want it to repeat well, I would spray.
Olga

Judith, those comments do not apply to you. Where you & I live, we can grow RdV no-spray, if you have a reasonable tolerance for bs, and it will have no problem repeating once established.

Randy

Randy, sorry, my mistake. I was answering Max who is in my state and forgot to mention that it is just for our climate. I love RdV and hope more people will grow it, especially if in your zone it behaves well. :)
Olga

No problem at all, I totally understood what you meant, Olga. I just wanted to make sure Judith didn't get scared off, in case she wasn't aware of the different fungal pressures between Texas and where you & Max live.

Randy

Olga, that sounds nevertheless wonderful, - I just bookmarked it under 2008 candidates :D

Max

Matt,

One year I tried to grow it no spray. Here are my notes.

No spray in Montgomery County, Maryland, USDA Zone 6b. REINE DES VIOLETTES. Two year old grafted specimen on Dr Huey, grown in pairtial shade. Approximately 50% defoliation by August. Most of the loss from the lower half of the plant. Remaining foliage, matt blue-green in color, healthy and relatively unspotted.

Hope this helps,

Patrick

I know everyone will BOOO at bareroot plastic wrapped but I bought several (6) RdV at Home Depot over the last 5 years (for 3 bucks) ownroot and they all lived. Looks exactly like the one I paid $15.00 for. I love this rose and look forward to Febuary when I can look for more.
Manena

Cziga,

Old Rose Nursery is a small supplier on Hornby Island in B.C.

The have mostly own roots and do mail order via bus shipping.

They are sold out for this year on RdV but an email to them might help if you really prefer own to grafted.

B.C. to Toronto is a bit of a hike but on the bus it shouldn't be more than a few days.

Mine is coming from Pickering because I need grafted.

cathy

Funny that you mention Old Rose Nursery, as I actually just came across their website a little while ago. Looks like something to look into, even if they are a little expensive. Also the shipping by bus is somewhat odd and inconvenient. I believe that you have to go down to the bus station to pick up your shipment. Some roses are own-root and some aren't, and the website doesn't say which is which, so you have to contact them. Even with all that, I'm keeping them in mind for next year as they have some varieties, own root, that I do want . . . for this year though, I'm going to try RdV from Pickering and just plant it deeply enough to try and encourage it to go own-root on it's own. See if that works . . .

So folks have your ordered your REINE DES VIOLETTES yet? The rose is still available at The Antique Rose Emporium and Vintage Gardens. I've had no contact with Pickering so I don't know if their mother plant is a clone of Dr. Manner's heat treated RdV. Frankly, I'm suspicious of any grafted rose. I mentioned the grafted RdV from David Austin because I have personal experience watching it perform over a period of time. In spite of its apparent health, I would not buy this rose grafted again. To be honest the grafted RdV is too vigorous and I'm having trouble containing it on its iron support. The own root specimen is not as aggressive and has better rebloom.

Mine came in a body bag from Home Depot two years ago. Ok so far. The one from Wayside, bought in late 80's, weakened and died by early 90's.
I think I need another one.
btw Patrick - "fanfrickentastic"? Did you make that up? Can I steal it?

I already have one thanks to you. This year I had my Patrick evil enabler vaccine early.

Carla

Sequoia. Thank goodness for hard copies. Now I'm planning to tempt the hell outta you with something.

Carl

I already have my RdV own root on order, otherwise I'd be getting out the credit card instead of posting this! Mine is coming from High Country Roses, can't wait. Wondering if it will be virus-free as well. My Officinalis from them is doing fine.

I thought I'd revive this thread now that we are going into the Autumn ordering frenzy. REINE DES VIOLETTES really is a must have Old Garden Rose.

You know, Reine des Violettes was the first rose I ever planted.
We grew it for 20 years -- until our virused ROY&T plant finally just
gave up the ghost. I loved it from the beginning, and love it still, and
I'll grow it again, one of these days.

You're absolutely right.
If you have the right conditions for it, it's a rose you NEED.

Jeri

Does anyone near me have success growing this rose no spray? Mine is from Kmart..and undoubtedly virused...I'm wondering whether I should try to order one of the VID ones. Thanks.

Robert

You people are evil. I've already: 1. Sworn off roses, but despite that have 2. "Spice" and "Ducher" coming from Chamblees next month.

I doubt this one would do well in my humidity...but it's thornless...and the color...and so--European and thornless...and purple...and... LOL.

Robert, we grew it no-spray for decades.

However, we are "cool/humid," rather than "warm/humid."
So, while I know it can grow no-spray clean of rust and mildew, I do not
know anything about its resistance to blackspot.

Jeri

I can't remember exactly where in "zone 8/9" you are located, but Spice & Ducher perform near flawlessly here.
You made two good choices. They are work horses and are attractive, durable shrubs to boot.
Spice's blooms are particularly beautiful to me in the spring, less so in the summer, but always pumping them out.
The chinas are the "bones" of the southern garden. High quality, well-adapted plants that can be counted on for the next generation to enjoy as much as you enjoyed.
For anyone building a garden here, they should be a requirement.
By comparison, Reine des Violettes is an "icing on the cake" rose.
As her names suggests, she is royalty.
One that is worthy of any necessary pampering (I have found it's not as finicky as sometimes written).
It is a personal favorite for its fragrance, thornlessness, & "old rose" bloom form & unique color, complete with button eye.
While some would curse it for its plant form, I adore that large and sprawling/arching, natural, unpruned habit ... like a short climber with flexible canes.
And, of course, it could be pruned regularly for a more compact "tidy" appearance.

Randy

This thread has been a goldmine about RDV....a neighbor gave me a rootling of her in May. Its in a 12 inch pot (it was about 10 inch high when I took possession)....she is over 4 ft tall, completely outgrown her pot...and headed into the lantana bed (good for her). I feed her with my other kids (milorgomite (sp?) mostly, Q 6 weeks)...water her with my other containers. I don't spray at all. I didn't know she had BS problems...perhaps I won't tell her about this. She may be from ARE mothership stock, I sure hope so. I am awaiting the appearance of her first blooms, maybe next spring?

:-)

blackcatgirl, my Reine des Violettes doesn't know she's "supposed" to have BS problems either. I don't spray and she doesn't need it (in my garden). I got her own-root from ARE 2 or 3 years ago.

Randy

For me my fifth try on RDV was the charm... The first three were bought here and there and in bags etc... all those croaked one after the other.
A friend gave me one he had bought on sale in a plastic wrapped pot.
THAT one was such a survivor in spite of itself I gave it a permanent home, and lo, it turned out to be Mme Boll...
And then finally, I bought the last and fifth one this past spring from ARE, so it pays to be patient!
albin

I agree with Randy about the growth habit. As mentioned previously I have two REINE DES VIOLETTES that are trained very differently. The first, grafted from David Austin Roses, is growth up, through and out of an iron tuteur. This spring it was SPECTACULAR! Profuse bloom all along the canes from the top the very bottom where the canes bent over and touched the ground. Cars literally stopped to look at it. To be honest this rose reminds me more of a Bourbon than a Hybrid Perpetual. She is just sooooooo dang graceful!

The own root from Vintage is much smaller and trained as an upright shrub. Good sound performer with decent repeat, but it lacks that special quality achieved by letting the plant grow naturally.

All I know is that I love this rose. You will too if you just give her a chance.

PSSSSSST! Have you ordered it yet?

This thread needs a HUGE bump. ;)

I ordered RdV last year from The Antique Rose Emporium, and by the looks of it she flew threw her first winter in flying colors. Can't wait to see what she'll do for me this year.

Wendy, I noticed yesterday that my 'Reine des Violettes' already has new growth beginning at the end of each cane.
Mine is a well-established plant now (a few years old with long, gracefully arching canes about 7 feet long).
It's a very special plant, with loads of character in my opinion.

Randy

Well, I'm hoping on my RdV (from Pickering), which will be entering its second year, this year. So far it is still pretty small, though.

Only THE ANTIQUE ROSE EMPORIUM, COUNTRYSIDE ROSES, & VINTAGE GARDENS has a the heat treated, RMV free clones that came from Dr. Manners lab. Everywhere else and you are taking your chances.

ok, thanks, Patrick - I'll keep that in mind if my RdV does not work out; however, I believe this path has been somewhat trod before, as I was going to order from ARE (even though in TX), based on the recommendation of you & Randy. but then decided on Pickering as they are East Coast, colder climate & were recommended by Paul Barden & by Olga.

Or, then again, maybe not, as there is some commentary about the need to spray in my area......

I've been drooling over Randy's pictures for a long time.

I want one !!!!!!

Florence

Jeez...just when I thought it was safe to log on! I have turned the other cheek on RdV many times. Now I'm thinking I need to pull the trigger.

Patrick, I like the sounds of your grafted RdV from DA...big and graceful, blooming abundantly. The own root sounds a bit reserved. Decisions, decisions....any new insights that could help me decide??? I mean...this is all your fault with your relentless enabling!

Milady of the Moon,

In good conscience I can only recommend that you buy this rose own root from either Vintage Gardens or the Antique Rose Emporium (I see that Lisa at Countryside isn't offering it this year). Of the two plants I have the grafted RdV is definitely the most impressive BUT I simply don't trust grafted plants. It is a personal bias of mine, but there it is. Now to be fair to the Austin folks they do state that they only use virus free rootstock and regularly inspect for virus. They also promise to replace infected plants.

Patrick

Image of Flora at Red Rose Ridge by MissyGardenWhimsy, previously posted at the Antique Roses Gallery.
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Here's one more for you to drool over, Florence!

Randy

Reine des Violettes (purchased from ARE):
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I was out in my garden this morning and noticed flowers on both my grafted and own root REINE DES VIOLETTES. By no means is she a profuse bloomer as my namesake but it certainly is nice to see those purple flowers in July. BTW, the own root RdV is still under 5 feet, while the grafted beauty from David Austin is trying her best to bust open her iron tuteur. The own root also has most of her leaves while the grafted Queen is looking a little naked. Oh well, not too bad when you consider that I haven't sprayed at all this year. Yep, not a squirt. I've been lazy.

Speaking of RDV, I got two late last summer from ARE. They have it in stock now BTW.

Mine were a little beat up and got yellowish while still in their pots which I set out front to recover. Jeri said was ? and that to use Miracid but sulphur is better. Did the Miracid because had some on hand. Planted out a short time later, didn't winter protect.

The very small one in the photo is struggling. First should I keep it or sp it? Second, I screwed up and crowded it too much with some white roses you can see in the photo that are doing better and will sucker eventually and am hoping they'll throw out long canes which is its habit, but it has to get up to speed first.

The iris need to be moved back, waiting for Aug for that. I intend to winter protect all of these this fall.

My question is should I transplant the RDV out of there and if so, when? I meant to take a photo of the other one but forgot because I wanted to grab some shots of weeds I need to id elsewhere. The other one is doing quite a bit better, putting out new growth, will take awhile for it to grow more robust if it makes it. That one I didn't photograph seems fine where it is right now, on the right or those iris.

They're due to be fed again shortly which seems to have helped, rain has helped, never got it mulched, got sidetracked, intend to do more of that at some point if I can ever get on top of things.

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My advice is weed, mulch and trim the irises to allow light down to the tiny plants. I wouldn't stress them further by moving. If you are going to move anything it would be the white rose.

BTW, what IS the white rose? I'm always on the look out for good white roses.

Patrick

You're not supposed to mulch bearded iris, and I will trim them down when I move them, moved some back already after one or two bloomed (they're new) and cut back but tiring in light of everything else that needs doing, they say Aug is best. The roses get good light from the east until past noon or so; the iris only interfere with late afternoon light from the west.

But I will follow your advice and leave it alone for now. I really don't want to move the white ones and risk losing them but wish I had set them closer to the top of the terrace, they will move themselves there and who knows where else by suckering eventually, my I don't think things through very well.

Much appreciate the input, and leaves that collected on my other beardeds elsewhere haven't seemed to have bothered them so I don't know why no mulch, maybe rot or iris borers; they say they like part of the rhizome in the sun to bloom best and fastest. Siberians you can mulch.

Now the white rose. Put up a photo essay of my unknowns I've rooted. That is one of them, a once bloomer. I am ok with that because of fighting JB's but would recommend to you Madame Plantier which has pink buds and repeats, very similar except I don't know if Madame climbs, throws out canes or forms a nice bush or what. Both my unknown and Madame are very hardy. Somebody posted a real beauty of Madame lately but can't remember which thread, very fully double. Also am considering Long John Silver, a hardy climber, but again a once-blooming one. Also have White Dawn which is not good for my zone but may perform well for you. You can check that out at gardenvines.com or possibly hmf.

I don't expect you to plow through my whole essay but might find it interesting. One of 4 unknowns has subsequently been identified, at least tentatively, but not the white one.

Here is a link that might be useful: Scroll down to Rose #4

I know this is an old thread, but I just thought that molineux and others might be pleased to know that I just ordered RdV. This is a great informational thread, not to mention a glowing testimonial! After reading all this, what could I do except order it? :)

Connie -- the VI one?
VERY cool!

Jeri

I want this rose SO BADLY! This thread enabled me the first time (Patrick is so guilty) then I got talked out of buying it because it hates alkiline soil. Now, I might order it and put sulpher under it's drip system dripper.

Oh, what's a girl to do?

Debbie

Yes Debbie -- That will definitely work, and I grew it for 20 years doing stuff like that.
It was mega-virused, too.

NOW I wouldn't plant it again because, well, I've done that.
But it is a wonderful rose.

Tho, to be honest, I edge toward thinking that "NOT-RdV" is just a bit nicer.

Jero

All right you guys. You simply must stop it. I am falling for more and more roses....LOL

Wonder how this would do in my area?

Coffee grounds (either fresh or used) will acidify your soil. That is how I keep my Endless Summer hydrangeas blue and not pink. Try it and then get back with us.

BTW, Randy has some new pics of REINE DES VIOLETTES over at the Antique Rose Gallery. They are so beautiful that I thought I'd post them here for those on the fence about this wonderful Hybrid Perpetual.

He-he-he-he-he...

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Patrick, you're terrible!! You and Randy are colluding to make me get more and more! I already have enough roses you two have enabled me on!

I'm just going to go do it -- pull out the credit card and bite the bullet!

Maybe I'll put it next to my other enable from you -- Mme Mari. I can walk through my yard and name the enablers -- Jeri, Patrick, Randy, Celeste, Ingrid. Then there's the whole crew up at the Sacramento Cemetery. Shameless!

Debbie

aargh! Still waiting for mine to bloom. Lots of new growth but no flowers as yet. Weather has finally turned spring-like, so maybe that will help. But I have a sneaking suspicion I have it in too much shade.

I love this thread!

I ordered RdV from Pickering and am wondering where to put it. I DO need a tall rose for a narrow spot between an enclosed porch and a walkway. Is RdV a narrow grower? It's thornlessness makes it seem like a good choice. Unfortunately, this area is a bit dry due to nearby trees.

Thanks
Maureen

Oh no! Nonono! This will be my first year growing roses and, after talking myself down to only ordering 6 plants, I've been going back and forth for days about whether or not I want Russelliana, or Violette, or if I should get both. Then I click on this thread and I cant stop scrolling past (and drooling over) all those incredible pics. I don't need another purple rose, and yet I know the next thing I'm gonna do after I finish posting is run to ARE's website! Arrrrrrgh!

Adding ground sulfur to a soil also will acidify it. The nice thing about using ground sulfur, rather than aluminum sulfate, is that it is slow acting. The ground sulfur rock only gradually converts into sulfate compounds (the more water the ground rock comes in contact with the faster this happens, but it's still a gradual process.

that in Graham Stuart Thomas' book on antique roses he specifically mentioned that RDV was in his mind the bluest rose he had ever seen, and that it was notably more "blue" than many of the modern so-called "blue" roses. Obviously since RDV's coloring varies a lot that "blue" only shows up when it's growing in the right soils, however Thomas must have seen it because he wrote that he often wore RDV as a lapel flower to rose functions to remind people that the rose existed and that it could be an unusually "blue" rose.