They have a couple other species of Fir tree seedlings over at TreeTimeInc.

Then there is Abies lasiocarpa 'Arizonica' seeds over at http://trees-seeds.com/seeds.htm, but it is listed at zone 5.

Sharon

Here is a link that might be useful: Tree Time

Here's another site....

Here is a link that might be useful: Abies lasiocarpa: Alpine Fir Seeds

Koren, these are indeed very nice trees! From a distance they look very similar to spruce, though growth is often more narrow and needles are flat and of soft texture, bark is also soft and corky, and of course, it has that very nice fragrance! I have a small beautiful 3ft seedling with thick dense growth. This I had obtained from a ditch nearby to where I had lived on the farm, though the road allowance has now been cleared and all is gone ... darn!

You could also try Hole's, I had seen them offered there.

Terry

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:727593}}

The forests of Northern Alberta have maybe 2% balsam fir. They have flat needles and fairly smooth bark. A company that grows seedlings for reforestation may have them but I think they tend to plant spruce or pine. They typically replant whatever was growing naturally so there might be some demand.

Balsam fir and subalpine fir are distinct species. Subalpine tends to have curved needles that are rounder, and stick up above the twig. Often a greyer green. Balsam fir has flatter needles that stick out on either side of the twig. Alpine fir tends to be narrower.

In the boreal forest you'll find balsam fir where it gets extra moisture and gets some shelter. Firs generally are less able to cope with our drying winter winds. Subalpine fir often grows mixed with spruce near timberline.

Thanks for the responses!
I'm reluctant to buy the seeds @ tree-seeds.com until I can find out the seed source, but maybe it's a gamble I'm just going to have to make...I found a nursey in Ontario that trialled them for a few years, but as soon as the seedlings were above the snowline they all perished. Seed source seems to be imperitave for this species.
The best case scenario would be to find someone in Alberta/BC that knows of a patch in which to collect seed...or find some mature trees around in cities that are of seed bearing age.
Thanks again for the help!
Koren in Saskatoon

Hi Koren,

Did you ever find your seeds/seedlings?

I know there are several large specimens on the UofS campus next to the Agriculture Bld by the AgCanada greenhouses. I don't know if they bear cones, but worth checking out.

I'm looking for a larger specimen (as large as can be moved in a pot or B&B). I just phoned Dieter Martin in Langham and he has field grown trees (5' and under) at $40/tree. The only problem is that he's not digging now until September. Did you find any greenhouses in or near Saskatoon that had trees for sales?

-erl-

The literature describes three varieties, which the splitters want to call three species. (Taxonomists are roughly dividided into the splitters who want to make ever more fine distinctions, and the lumpers who want to keep the names simple even if they describe hugely variable species.

Anyway, the three varieties are laisiocarpa, bifolia, and arizonica. The latter is cometimes called corkbark fir, and is zone 5 hardy. Lasiocarpa is sometimes referred to coastal subalpine fir, and bifolia is sometimes called interior subalpine fir.

In additions, firs that come from places with colder winters, or more northern climes seem to require less warming to trigger de-winterizing. In the arctic or at high elevation this is an evolutionary win, as spring is short, late hard frosts are fairly rare once there has been a couple frostfree weeks, and the growing season is short. So get your needles out there when you can.

In more southern lands, spring doesn't come as quite such a rush. Days don't increase in length as fast. On the average the thermometer bounces around more making the transition. Lower elevations are more likely to collect pools of cold air. A tree needs to be a bit more hesitant to bud. (This same factor is the key difference for the hardier of the Japanese maples. -- they break bud later, and so don't get their tips frosted.)

anyway, very cold climate firs tend to have bud damage from late frosts when grown in milder climates.

I've tried veitch fir, concolor fir. Both are nominally hardy to zone 3b. The ones in my yard do well. But my yard is 3 acres surrounded by a 50-100' wide band of spruce/poplar forest. The ones at the potyard suffer from tip burn, and needle desication. My working assumption at this point is that these trees are cold hardy but not dry hardy. The long months of steady breezes as close to zero absolute humidity combined with bright sun act to mummify the tissues of the plant.

I've got 600 balsam fir in a trial now. 30 of them are planted on the edges of my pot yard; along trails in the woods. The remainder are in 1 gallon pots, but instead of being in the main pot yard, they are in parked in a young poplar bush with about 50% sun. We'll see if this helps.

I want to try abies sibirica. Everything else I've gotten from Siberia (Siberian Crabapple, Siberian Larch) has done really well here.

I'm looking at getting a box of Abies lasiocarpa from PRT this spring. I have a choice of the following lots:

Species Seedlot Type Size Age Elev
(m) BGCZone SeedPlanZone Lat Long No.

BL 03393 PSB 410 2+0 1543 WK 4913 11804 22.140 Request
BL 35573 PSB 410 1+0 1100 ESSF NST 5518 12757 4.320 Request
BL 39229 PSB 412A 2+0 1500 ESSF MIC 5127 11823 3.600 Request
BL 47447 PSB 410 1+0 850 ICH NST 5613 12922 1.245 Request
BL 47714 PSB 410 1+0 850 SBS BLK 5412 12650 0.810 Request
BL 47975 PSB 410 2+0 1650 ESSF SA 5057 11854 2.700 Request

Note that for several blocks I've got elevation, lat and long. If you plot them on google maps, several are from the coastal mountains, and several from the interior. At this point my inclination is to take the clump that is the lowest elevation from the interior.

Thoughts?

The literature describes three varieties, which the splitters want to call three species. (Taxonomists are roughly dividided into the splitters who want to make ever more fine distinctions, and the lumpers who want to keep the names simple even if they describe hugely variable species.

Anyway, the three varieties are laisiocarpa, bifolia, and arizonica. The latter is cometimes called corkbark fir, and is zone 5 hardy. Lasiocarpa is sometimes referred to coastal subalpine fir, and bifolia is sometimes called interior subalpine fir.

In additions, firs that come from places with colder winters, or more northern climes seem to require less warming to trigger de-winterizing. In the arctic or at high elevation this is an evolutionary win, as spring is short, late hard frosts are fairly rare once there has been a couple frostfree weeks, and the growing season is short. So get your needles out there when you can.

In more southern lands, spring doesn't come as quite such a rush. Days don't increase in length as fast. On the average the thermometer bounces around more making the transition. Lower elevations are more likely to collect pools of cold air. A tree needs to be a bit more hesitant to bud. (This same factor is the key difference for the hardier of the Japanese maples. -- they break bud later, and so don't get their tips frosted.)

anyway, very cold climate firs tend to have bud damage from late frosts when grown in milder climates.

I've tried veitch fir, concolor fir. Both are nominally hardy to zone 3b. The ones in my yard do well. But my yard is 3 acres surrounded by a 50-100' wide band of spruce/poplar forest. The ones at the potyard suffer from tip burn, and needle desication. My working assumption at this point is that these trees are cold hardy but not dry hardy. The long months of steady breezes as close to zero absolute humidity combined with bright sun act to mummify the tissues of the plant.

I've got 600 balsam fir in a trial now. 30 of them are planted on the edges of my pot yard; along trails in the woods. The remainder are in 1 gallon pots, but instead of being in the main pot yard, they are in parked in a young poplar bush with about 50% sun. We'll see if this helps.

I want to try abies sibirica. Everything else I've gotten from Siberia (Siberian Crabapple, Siberian Larch) has done really well here.

I'm looking at getting a box of Abies lasiocarpa from PRT this spring. I have a choice of the following lots:

Species Seedlot Type Size Age Elev
(m) BGCZone SeedPlanZone Lat Long No.

BL 03393 PSB 410 2+0 1543 WK 4913 11804 22.140 Request
BL 35573 PSB 410 1+0 1100 ESSF NST 5518 12757 4.320 Request
BL 39229 PSB 412A 2+0 1500 ESSF MIC 5127 11823 3.600 Request
BL 47447 PSB 410 1+0 850 ICH NST 5613 12922 1.245 Request
BL 47714 PSB 410 1+0 850 SBS BLK 5412 12650 0.810 Request
BL 47975 PSB 410 2+0 1650 ESSF SA 5057 11854 2.700 Request

Note that for several blocks I've got elevation, lat and long. If you plot them on google maps, several are from the coastal mountains, and several from the interior. At this point my inclination is to take the clump that is the lowest elevation from the interior.

Thoughts?