four feet from the street???

those must be some tiny snow plows... or miniscule snow load.. that it doesnt shoot more than 3 feet .. while being plowed ....

we here in MI ... have marks 14 feet up trees on fast roads ... and at least 4 feet high and 6 wide at the base in subdivisions ...

is this spot truly realistic???

i would be more concerned with them being sheared off by the movement of the plowings.. than i would be about salt ...

and i do note... you are basically talking about a dwarf or mini... with only 4 feet to the street ...

so i think.. the analysis starts with feasibility .... rather than cultivar ...

ken

Pinus rigida. Go down to the pine barrens closest to the coast, and collect seed from the trees nearest to the sea.

Resin

I've been researching that exact problem!

The two most salt tolerant native conifers are BY FAR Eastern Red Cedar (Juniperis virginiana) and Pitch Pine (pinus rigidia). Totally different league then anything else in North America. Both are somewhat hard to find and are considered ugly trees. Fitting any conifer in that close to the road could be a problem.

Red Cedar has a thin growth habit like Arbor Vitae which would help it fit. It tends to spread like crazy, but is very disease resistant.

Pitch Pine loses it's lower branches, so you could maybe have it's branches extend over the road? Unfortunately, it is being damaged by bark beetles in Long Island. You can buy Pitch Pine cheap from the New York State Nursery.

Some sources say Colorado Blue Spruce is somewhat salt tolerant. Some say White Spruce (aka Alberta Spruce) is a little salt tolerant. You could try to fit a Dwarf Alberta Spruce in that location. Don't think a Colorado Blue Spruce or a full sized White Spruce would fit in that spot...I was recently told the ones I planted 12 feet from the road were probably too close to the power line.

Not native, but Austrian Pine and Japanese Black Pine are very salt tolerant and not huge trees. Unfortunately, they have been completely wiped out by disease in my area. They also tend to drip massive amounts of pine pitch that destroys car paint. Mugho Pine is also salt tolerant and there are dwarf versions. Recent research trying to come up with disease resistant substitutes for Austrian pine revealed the little known Bosnian pine is salt tolerant.

You could also ditch the conifer idea and plant American Holly (Ilex Opaca). It's more prunable (so easier to squeeze in a small spot) and also somewhat salt tolerant.

Here is a link that might be useful: New York State Nursery

This post was edited by edlincoln on Tue, Sep 16, 14 at 11:08

Thanks guys

Ken - snow load here in northern no is usually not bad. Last winter was the worst in decades and the snow pile did extend to the spot I'm planting on, but not much. I'm willing to take the risk because I'm planting small and cheap (a lesson I learned from you!). I live in the woods...there was a tree there the previous homeowner took down. I'd like to get the privacy back.

Pineresin - Great idea! How do I acquire a seed from a pinus rigida? Do I grab the comb and open it? I Have zero knowledge of how pine trees make babies.

Edlcolin - I was thinking eastern red cedar...I also like the pitch pine idea.

How horizontal is pinus rigidas growth?

I think what you do is you take pine cones that aren't open and put them in a paper bag until they open naturally.

I just planted a couple baby Pitch Pine but I'm not sure if I've ever seen an adult one.

How do pitch pine handle shade/part shade scenarios?

Johniferous, pineresin gave you the best advice. Take a day off and get thee to the barrens. First hand observation will be better than anything you read here.
This three needle pine is Pinus rigida. Taken at Cape Henlopen State Park. It is perhaps 7' tall and 12' wide. Relentless ocean wind and full exposure and nutrient poor soil all influence the growth habit. The same species planted in an inland location will have a different habit.

Pitch Pine and Eastern Red Cedar don't handle shade well. Most salt resistant plants evolved for sunny beaches.

Mugho Pine and American Holly are pretty shade tolerant I hear. White spruce is somewhat shade tolerant.

I've been looking since you asked and recently saw an old Eastern Red Cedar a foot from the sidewalk. They had trimmed the lower branches, giving it an odd Cartoon Christmas Tree look, but it seemed healthy.

I just remembered that I went to an Arboretum and saw a pitch pine. Here is a picture. You rarely see them this age and size and growing in good soil...you usually see younger ones that are sort of twisted by wind and bad soil.

Arboretums are a great place to see what trees look like. The same trees can often be found in the woods, but they aren't clearly labeled.

This post was edited by edlincoln on Sat, Sep 20, 14 at 23:29

Thanks!

Here is a pic of the spot. I want to plant in the open area around/at the corner of the white fence. Ken, maybe this will help you see why I want to plant here!

Does this change anyones suggestions? It's partial sun.

ps - the previous owner put those arbs on the left...i personally hate them.

Any and all suggestions are welcome!!!

for that site consider Juniperus procumbens 'Nana'

Behind the fence, or in front?

I'm way more prone to squeezing trees together then Ken and I'm not sure you have room.

I think ditching the conifer idea and trying a kind of holly that takes a "tree" form might work better.

(FYI, I've always hated arborvitae as well.)

In front of the fence. It could be multiple or a single. Any suggestions are great.

Are Holly salt-tolerant? I did see a holly with an upright habit at the garden center a few days ago.

Many hollies are somewhat salt tolerant. Various sources say American Holly (Ilex opaca), Winterberry Holly, and Inkberry Holly (Ilex glabra) are salt tolerant. My parents planted some on the ocean side of their house, and they never had a problem with the salt spray they got every few years.

Even I'm questioning whether that space is really big enough for a conifer tall enough to provide any kind of priacy screen.

Well, until about 4 hours ago, there was a scraggly looking 6 foot tall Forsythia bush there. So I just want to replace it with something evergreen.

Doesn't have to get too tall. Has to be salt tolerant in case of road/plow splash, has to fit there reasonably, has to be evergreen. That's really it.

Here right on the Dutch coast ( mean on the other side of a small dune even!) these grow well:
- Picea omorika
- Picea pungens
- Picea sitchensis
- Austrian Pine
- Pinus mugho
- Pinus contorta contorta

In the coastal forests, trees that do well are also Abies alba, Abies grandis and Tsuga heterophylla aswell as Douglas fir and Picea abies.
But these are all sheltered by other trees, even though the is less than 1 km away this may have an influence.