From what I understand from doing a search on google, honey contains a fungus (unsure of the type) that can be transferred to a hummingbirds tongue and could prove fatal. However, I couldn't find an actual research study cited.

I do know that you are not suppose to feed honey to human babies under the age of 1-year because honey may contain the harmful bacterium Clostridium botulinum which causes a rare case of food poisoning. I would guess that hummingbirds would be susceptible to this as well, since the type C form of this bacteria is what causes huge die-offs of waterfowl when they ingest it...usually from fermented grain or other sources, they die, maggots containing more concentrated amounts of the toxin are then injested..you get the picture.

Thus, I wouldn't feed honey solutions to hummingbirds based on the above possibilities of contamination. Boiled sugar water is probably safer and is what is pretty much universally recommended on most of the sites I visited from the google search. Not sure what would happen if you boiled the honey solution first?

BN

This is so sad...

Quote" If someone can show to me that feeding honey/water solution is harmful to the hummers, I will, naturally, have to re-assess what I have been doing these past 12 years... with no apparent ill effects."

What ill effects would you like to be shown?

Studies like this?

http://biology.georgefox.edu/~dpowers/Powers/HumTopic.html

I just love people like this. A pile of leading experts tell them something and that isn't good enough.

This link says "Honey ferments rapidly when diluted with water and can kill hummingbirds."

http://www.hummingbirds.net/feeders.html

What you're really saying Alicia is that your research since 1981 is better than the experts and scientists in the hummingbird field.

How about this then, you show us your research proving honey is OK to use?

You know if you Google "honey hummingbirds" there are 343,000 links most of which say pretty much the same thing, and that is never put honey water in hummingbird feeders it's been found to kill them.

Now why would someone in their right mind argue with that? Unless?

The tough thing is that it's tough to tell what long-term effects anything is having on hummers. Unless they drop over at the feeder, you can't always really tell if honey or red food coloring or whatever is having any effect on them. I know we all have our hummers we know by sight, but unless you're banding the little guys, how can you be sure the bird that returns this year is the same "Junior" or "Betsy" from last year?

Point is, why take the chance? Plus, honey's way more expensive (unless you keep hives, I guess)...I'd break the bank if I used it instead of sugar water!

Just want to point out that this user joined TODAY. For some strange reason, people like to get a rise out of people on GW forums. Take it with a grain of salt, and let this thread fall down. Christy :)

mbuckmaster makes a good point. Unless you are scientifically studying the hummingbirds you don't have any idea what the honey is doing to them. I have an old book by an English guy named Mobbs who wrote about keeping hummingbirds in aviaries. It's not a scientific book but he goes into a lot of detail on particular hummingbirds including how long they lived in captivity. It was usually just a few weeks or months, which made me really sad and angry to read. When he could tell what they died of it was usually a yeast infection (candida). He fed them honey because back then they thought it was more natural. Now that we know better and make their artificial nectar from white sugar some zoos have been able to keep hummingbirds alive for years. What does that tell you?

Here is a link that might be useful: Troll

Good info, sidk...and anecdotal evidence like that is really the best we have with hummingbirds. Sounds fairly conclusive to me as far as it goes.

And a shrewdly included link! ;)

Sidk, One thing many people in North America don't know is that in Europe "humming birds" (two words) is a common word for a type of nectar eating sunbird. They are found through the middle east and into Africa, and are kept in Europe as caged birds much like people do to parrots over here. When you read on the internet or in books about "keeping" humming-birds it's a totally different genus of bird.

I hope that person is a Troll and not someone killing our hummingbirds through sheer arrogance.

Here is a link that might be useful:

Mobbs may have also written about sunbirds or other nectar drinking birds but the book I have is specifically about hummingbirds. I haven't run across any examples of that confusion in other books about aviculture but I guess there's no shortage of ignorance about nature on either side of the Atlantic. I can't imagine why anybody would call any other bird a "humming bird" since only hummingbirds have wings that hum.

I too have read about feeding honey to hummingbirds as being dangerous for them. I have one question. Does anyone know if their is a difference between unpasturized honey or pasteurized honey. Unpasturized and unfiltered contains propolis which is used by bees to sterilize their hives when they have killed a foreign invader. It was also used by Egyptians to keep mummies. It has antibiotic anti fungal properties. Are the studies and tests done on pasteurized honey? Unpasturized honey does not go bad.

I'm glad to see that they are now recognizing a sugar solution of white processed sugar does not really feed the hummingbird (and hopefully is supplemental) and are now offering nectar like solutions. The challenge is finding one without red dye. So again if anyone has brands they suggest that mimic as close as possible to the hummingbirds real nectar without red dye please share (and something available in Canada) Actually this may be a post for another area.

Someone is full of bunk. Honey is the Magical Candy . http://io9.com/why-honey-is-the-only-food-that-doesnt-go-bad-1225915466

Jim, did you even bother to read your link???? "The fact that honey is hydroscopic means that it has little water in its
natural state but can easily suck in water if its exposed to it. If it
does that, it could spoil." So the title of the article is specious at best. And has no bearing on its appropriateness for use in hummingbird feeders anyway.

Diluted honey - honey water - does go bad. And it doesn't make any difference if it is pasturized or not. Pasturizing only slows fermentation, it doesn't stop it. (Ever had pasturized milk go bad??) In fact, honey ferments rather rapidly, much more rapidly than sugar water. It contains glucose and fructose, both high yeastingsimplemonosaccharide sugars used in fermentation processes. The yeast these types of sugars generate are popular breeding platforms for both bacterial and fungal organisms which are suspected to be toxic to hummers, in particular Candidiasis.

Granulated cane sugar is sucrose, a disaccharide. Plant nectar IS sugar, often a combination of both mono and dissachridic sugars, but most bird pollinated plants - and those hummers are most attracted to - contain predominately sucrose, so there is no significant difference in offering your hummers sugar water or nectar. They are essentially the exact same thing. Hummingbirds also consume large quantities of insects (an essential protein source), tree sap and will suck out juices form over ripe fruit.

Honey may be the magic candy for humans....maybe even bears......but it most certainly is NOT for hummingbirds

thank you so much for sharing your valuable experience! it helped so much! by the way to others who love to suck up to "experts": there are NO fungi in feeder, and my little hummi friends look each day happier! :)

Honestly it's best not to use a feeder at all...flowers are so much better...its self cleaning and self filling

viper114 what flowers?

thank you so much!

There are no flowers or vines that grow until the Hummers pass here. During the summers yes. I offer two feeders. Both contain plain sugar water (NO DYE) and I put a spoon of honey in one. Both feeders need filled twice a day. The birds are gone like clock work 01 Oct. Been that way for over twenty years. We even get them coming into the house 7 or 10 times a year as we leave the Front door were the feeders are open. All make it back outside after a inspection of the wife, me and the dogs.

I'm not an expert....at anything. So I like to research and ask questions. I did have some questions about honey and hummingbirds. And, like several folks who have asked "honey" questions, I am very much aware that there is a lot of false information floating around in the world, old wives tales and such. And, just because "someone" said it. It doesn't make it true. That, personally, is the reason, I prefer "good" research to back up the information I find. I have a teaching heart. So, I find it very disheartening to read belittling, name calling and insults on forums where people come to find anwers. As if, any of these kinds of words will ever help anyone find truth on any level.

A) WHY risk it?

B) White table sugar is WAY LESS EXPENSIVE than honey.

Unless you *know* that the hummer is the same one that has been visiting for the past few weeks, months, or even years, you can't know that honey water isn't bad for the hummer.

What you see as "visitors" to your honey feeder could be all different hummingbirds. Yes, they are coming to the feeder all through spring and summer and into the fall. That doesn't mean it's the same one, which could possibly be dead in a ditch somewhere because of getting bad honey water.

That's not to say that I know the honey water is killing them. It's merely to say, err on the side of caution and don't take chances. I am sure if we all read from the bird experts that cane sugar was suddenly discovered to be bad, there would be many warnings about it, posted by the bird lovers, and many of us would then look for alternatives instead of saying, " I used to feed with diluted can sugar and everything was fine!"

So, honey water, while far more nutritious, ferments too quickly and poses an unacceptable risk. The refined white sugar alternative is no less a drug than cocaine and is devoid of the complex nutrition that nectar provides. Is there something else that we of no gardens might offer as safe sustenance to our bejeweled little friends?

I'm thinking diluted maple syrup maybe? It's pure tree sap, a whole food and boiled therefore sterilized. It would lack the enzymes of fresh nectar, but if it didn't carry the risk of honey, it might be a better 'solution' than pure sucrose. More expensive that Big-Sugar's subsidized coke, but they're worth it, right?

exborg, you need to try before you give an opinion. certainly you did not even try honey water in a feeder... i did. i use it since early winter. it did not ferment, unlike commercial humming bird food, it did not develop fungi. also very important i use natural, organic, non-commercial honey from person i know, not from industrial producer. try something righter than making an opinion.

stasia14, you're right, I didn't try it, and before I read expert advice elsewhere, I would have presumed honey a more healthful choice, because it is for humans. A pure, organic source is a must and I'm sure it would be more stable in cooler temperatures too. However, expert advice notwithstanding, the main principle I'm guided by is what happens in nature as I can trust that without having to prove it myself. Hummers are not known for queuing up to raid bee hives but they are well known to sip sap from trees, especially maple trees, using the holes drilled by the sapsuckers that precede their arrival in the spring. In fact, this is often their main source of food in the early season before there are many flowers available. On that basis I would use maple syrup over honey, and dilute it back to sap with distilled water, not tap water.

I really think that to know some valid results, we have to use the *same* hummingbird(s) over a period of time. Until then, we have observations of what we see in nature, such as the maple syrup example, or even the hummingbird swing example.

If a hummingbird is always seen to be flying or hovering, does it need a perch to sit and drink at? It certainly doesn't hurt to have something that the bird can perch at nearby.

The difference is that having a swing or not, doesn't potentially kill the bird, whereas feeding a wrong kind of drink solution could. Or even the right ingredients in the wrong proportions could have detrimental effects.

Exborg, et al

Hummers get nothing but energy from sugar water. Their nutrient requirements are fulfilled by eating insects.

Great info on this page. Reading through, the last comment from mblan13 has a interesting perspective. t. Seems to me maple syrup, though more expensive may be the best solution. Sugar is as one poster mentioned a *quick fix*, whereas maple syrup may provide a healthier drink for the tiny birds. I can buy maple syrup at walmart for $4, due to big snows in vermont last yr. I'll try maple , i'll switch to sugar see which they prefer by watching their feeding time/behavior. will get back once my feeder arrives next week.

I'm down in New Orleans I see one feeding sometimes on my 2 over grown Red Penta plants, Not sure of their migration patterns/months, hope he can bring his friends and stay awhile.

Paul, do you have information that leads you to believe the iron in maple syrup is beneficial to their nutrition? Be careful you aren't doing something to harm them...

"nectarivorous and frugivorous birds have a very low tolerance. Even a little extra iron over time can build up to lethal levels in the birds’ bodies. Refined white sugar has had the trace iron removed to make it a more attractive product, which incidentally makes it safer for hummingbirds"

Hi Morz

No no info. Based on my observation of the 2 birds that feed, these guys LOVE the maple l. Try drinking a glass of sugar water, how do you eel? Now drink mapel water? Feel better don't you. I kind of listen to what these birds are saying. *Thanks paul for the delicious maple, instead of everyones plain high spike sugar*.

For a little more money the guys get a healthier, tastier drink.

New Orleans

I can't compare my own nutritional needs to that of a bird. Literature shows that iron is detrimental to their health, and as far as I know maple syrup is not a natural part of their diets. And contains iron.

Above: "Even a little extra iron over time can build up to lethal levels in the birds’ bodies "

Pure maple syrup is maple sap condensed at about a 40:1 concentration. Since maple sap is a definite part of their diet and sugar cane in any form is definitely not, just dilute it with 40 parts distilled water and it would be very hard to find anything more natural.
I'd like to see someone try a sugar water, honey water and maple sap feeders in tandem and see what they choose as their favourite. There's no doubt as to what is most natural.

And maple sap is available to them indefinitely in your area, not dependent on temperatures producing sap flow? Including it in a feeder continuously may just give them that extra bit of minerals and iron that wouldn't be good long term since its naturally a temporary food source.

You'll need a mineral comparison of sap to the many flower nectars they consume to advance any argument there.

Ridiculous argument... it is making it way more complicated than necessary. BTW...Sugar is NOT cocaine to a hummingbird.. it is sucrose, virtually identical to what naturally occurs IN FLOWER NECTAR. Just use plain white sugar diluted in water and quit trying to put together some kind of vitamin drink when that is possibly screwing up their sensitive metabolic systems. We give way more credence to our human intervention as 'helping' wild animals when in fact most if not all of it is unnecessary and is actually interference. I do put out a feeder in the summer to enjoy the hummers presence but I am not naive enough to think I am sustaining them when I have a yard filled with massive numbers of zinnias, bee balm, honeysuckle, milkweed, penstemon, phlox and many others. And skip the honey...hummers would never be eating it in the wild. And everything I've read says it can contain bacteria that is harmful to birds (not just hummingbirds) as well as human babies.

Some of us are interested in doing the best for our little friends .. and clearly some are content to skate by on less while taking offense at honest and learned efforts to the better. I would suggest some research into Big Sugar and the real biochemistry of their refined white drug, for your own sake, if not theirs, but the status quo is so much easier, isn't it?

Perhaps sugar is just as natural a energy source as maple syrup. I love the delicious flavor of MS,, I am more satisfied drinking maple, vs sugar. And so I assume they too have some sort of taste buds. At becsbirds, that kis a lot of flowering plants for the birds, insects. Wish I had a garden area for that huge variety. Agree, a quick sip at the feeder = perhaps 4X's the effort spent on the flowers.

The iron issue in MS, consider there is iron in every flower nectar.

yes CANE SUGAR is best. agree with above wayyy too complex.