I guess you should ask how how much does a jar of Rapid Rooter cost? How much rockwool will that buy. How many plants can at that same cost will each provide you. Then too at the other end how many times will you reuse the rockwool before it's disposed of. In the long run rockwool is a nice costly idea but over rated, over used and wasteful.

georgeii,

I'm not interested in costs, I know what the price of each is. I want to know if there is any substantial difference in germination success and root growth between the two options. Some of the seeds cost from 25-60� each - I don't like the 25-40 percent germination or 15-40 percent survival rate of rockwool but don't see any reason to pay more if RR is not significantly better.

Mike

Then the question becomes why use anything at all? I use cuttings all the time without using any thing more special than aerated water. A spray mist system is the same thing. I'm sure others will agree. If you do seeds they do need a medium to grow in (perilite) but just cut the timer to once every two hours. Once it shows go back to every 15 mintues. Problem with perilite is it's messy. That the only advantage to rockwool and Rapid Rooter can cake up and actully stop rooting from happening. Like I said why use anything at all.

Why bother responding to a thread if you're not even going to address the question.

What part of the question didn't I answer grizz?

>> What part of the question didn't I answer grizz? The part about which in your experience is best - Rapid Rooter or Rockwool! Did you miss the tree because you were looking at the forest or simply have nothing to add? I mean, even in my limited capacity, I asked a very simple question, almost like a true/false.

I guess an idiot could follow your advice and use "nothing at all" to germinate seeds that will survive and take off immediately in a hydro grow but somehow this seems like something that will not work. Take my seeds upstairs, place them (still in the package) in my grow area, and five weeks later they will be ready to move to a hydro system? Is that what you are advocating?

If so, I think I will ignore your "advice."

Mike

Not that it makes any difference, at least to me at this time. I need to start seeds soon and very soon, so I went ahead and ordered the RR tray.

The rapid rooter product is much like most any kind of spounge like media, and in my opinion they all work well. I do not like rockwool at all.

The rockwool tends to hold too much moisture, and is very difficult to rinse or flush out any build up of excess nutrients. Latter on in the growth cycle, many of my plants ended up with rotten roots. Maybe it was just the way I did it.

The spounge media works well in that you can transplant the plant to any other media without any shock to the plant, but it does not hold too much moisture.

I typically put the spounge into an Aerogarden, put a seed in it, and when ready transplant to a Groton clay type media.

However, I prefer Deep Water, so maybe that is why.

So let me get this right you want to "limit" the conversation to those two choices. Not in what experience someone might have in getting seeds of low viability to best germinate. That was the question I was answering. If you were just looking to buy another "gadget" sorry I miss understood. But really seeds with low viability usually means keep from getting wet even very moist for a day. I was answering your question for the seed not your need to comparison shop for another gadget. In that I stand corrected.

It seemed obvious to me that Mike was specifically looking for information from someone with personal experience with both Rockwool and Rapid Rooters, which is why several of us decided not to reply, thereby leaving the post at the top of the page. Some of us may have researched both products, or may have used one product but not the other and may have opinions, but that wasn't what Mike was looking for. It's the poster trying to Sell (Spam) a product (AKA gadget), that needs a (ONE TIME) prompt reply in order to get the post moving downward (bury it). Someone looking for a consumer report Should be left up top for a Qualified reply. Rockwool is inert, sterile and natural being made of rock, Rapid Rooters are organic and decompose over time, I haven't used either Prouduct.
Ken

Ken,

You got it half right and half wrong. I was specifically looking for info from people with personal experience on which of two products worked best for them.

I was not looking to sell a product and I have couldn't care less if the post moves downward or not. I am getting ready to sow about seven different varieties of seeds so I can try them (will have 39-40 plants growing) and I was not having success with rockwool. I had heard of RR (as well as just about every other method from paper towels to Jiffy pots) but have narrowed my choices to just the rockwool and RR.

Mike

Mike,
Maybe you misunderstood me. I realized that you weren't spamming and I wanted the post to stay up top so that someone with real Rockwool/Rapid Rooter experience could reply. You asked a very good question and it deserves a good answer. I am also interested in which product is preferred and for what reasons, (other than co$t), Pros & cons Etc.
I take it that this will be for your NFT system, using the seeds you mentioned on the Tomato forum?
Ken

Mike,
The best choice of media according to experiences of various people can be of help, but wouldn't be good enough for me. From my understanding, the media itself isn't making the difference, but the proper TECHNIQUE that is used with a specific media. Also, some media work better with some kind of seeds/plants than others.

It seems that "Rapid Rooter" isn't a very popular choice in this round, and I haven't used it myself either. But as for Rockwool I have tested and used it extensively. My conclusion is that it is indeed not appropriate for all kinds of seedlings and that it has to be used properly.

First of all: it still is my first choice for cloning of (any) cuttings. And as it is what concerns you in the context: for tomato seeds and seedlings, Rockwool has been just fine in my experience.

If I understood you right, you are not willing to compromise in terms of best choice versus price - which doesn't necessarily imply that you wouldn't mind saving money with your choice, right? Well, here is what I do: I use large Rockwool slabs and cut my own seedling dices of a bit less than 1x1x1" (6/8") . I pierce a hole from Top to Bottom which enables the main root of the seedling to quickly and directly grow through the cube and reach the nutrient solution already a few days after germination. This allows me to use "unconditioned and non pH corrected" Rockwool. And, I have build my own nurseries that are based on RSWC (recycled swallow water culture) for the purpose ad for these custom made cubes.

The best alternative I could find, and which is suited for a number of plant types (including Tomatoes) is perlite - but here again, linked to a proper technique. In my case it means using special mini cups that are designed for perlite. These are obviously cups that also fit into my nurseries and eventually to the NFT system. An that is what I meant earlier - your growing method for seedlings has to be a complete technique and part of a process.

Another cost effective and nicely working media is a 50/50 mix of perlite/coco peat - but such media holds more moisture and has to be used with a different technique. In other words, perlite filled cups have to be kept moist (which is assured best when permanently dipped in water/nutrients), while a perlite/coco mix would only be watered/dipped every few days or once a day, depending on conditions.

Do you see now how various media types and the appropriate technique are actually linked? And does it make sense to you, that if you only take one end of the equation and try using "the best medium" in the experience of others, without the proper technique, - you may indeed end up in various-, including underperforming and disappointing results?

Ken,

Thought I sent this yesterday, must have forgot to do it the second time.

Yes, I did misunderstand you - my bad. And yes, also - this is for the tomato seeds I need to start in a couple of weeks.

Mike

Lucas,
You are 100% correct regarding appropriate technique and choice of media and how they each play a functional part in a process. Heck, just the other day I had to fabricate net pots for my ultrasonic lava rock grower because no one manufactures net pots deep enough to function acceptably with my medium and technique.
When trying a new variety, I start seeds in perlite before they go in the cloner, then to the lava rock grower.
Once I have a few samples to take cuttings from I no longer do the seed thing.
When starting seedlings for my soil garden I transplant into a peat/vermiculite/perlite mix several weeks before they go out.
I think if I were using a system such as the one Mike describes I would choose the Rockwool simply to avoid the enlightening experience of having a pump or filter get all jammed up with decomposing Rapid Rooter debris. This may not be as likely to happen in reality as it is in the scenario I've created in my mind, But I wouldn't take that chance. Part of saving money is avoiding unnecessary and expensive problems later down the road. It doesn't pay to be penny wise and dollar foolish, although I also don't believe in spending extra money on something just because it is said to be of better quality. It just seems to me that in this case the more expensive product may be able to preemptivily avoid a possible problem.
Ken

Hi again hardclay.
Truly glad to be able to workout some consensus with some maxims and detail that aren't necessarily mainstream and conform to the usual "forum credo" ;-)

Although, the thing with any specialized techniques and custom methods is that they are kind of personal and aren't exactly easily explained or transmitted either. And, in many cases the simples solution is often the best. We have an ancient saying in my old home country that is probably not politically correct anymore unless differentiated as "ancient"... Translated literally, it would sound like "The dumbest farmers always have the biggest yields" and probably does not only refer to IQ or knowledge, but to the fact that knowledge is not required for success by all means. And it may also refer to the fact, that as soon as you have got it right, simply repeating "stubbornly" what you found (even if it is what you have been told or taught) is lately the most important part of it and key for success. And if applying the reverse logic, you may indeed over think something in the process if you want to be too smart. And, if you don't stop inquiring, questioning and trying to permanently experiment and improve something, - you may end up in shooting fractionally wide, or even completely miss your target ... ;-)

Last but not least, the strong need (of most of us) to trying to simultaneously seeking to differentiate us from others and sweating it with our "individuality", while in the same time looking for affirmation and consensus, is indeed cutting both ways. I mean, if you have a unconventional but nicely working technique of your own, some specialty or other finding, you can always share them - but don't insist on promoting it. Simply because most people don't actually want "your stuff",no matter how good it is. People generally either base on mainstream knowledge (including myths and fallacies) and yet want it to be their own and individual solution by all means. There is not much room left for other individuals' (your) findings, they don't fit in there very well, - or do they ... ;-)

Cheers,
Lucas

lucas
While I actually agree with your statements about success not being all about the media used, but how you choose to use it, that's a long way to go about saying it. Are you writing a book? Not to mention the the part referring to "forum credo" that I can only take as you stroking your own ego again. Being that if someone in a forum has a different opinion than you, you call it a fallacy or myth (because you say so).

Bottom line, and this is hard to believe but I more or less agree with georgeiii's earlier statements about not really needing growing medium to start seeds. I myself just use a damp paper towel inside a Tupperware container (with lid to keep in humidity) to start all my seeds. Once they sprout, then I will transfer them into a growing medium. I just don't want to use up the growing medium on any seeds that don't happen to sprout. That's how I do it, and ya the lid is important in keeping in humidity, as well as keeping temp in a good range (about 80-85 degrees), except spinach that I hear sprouts best in the refrigerator (of all temperatures). But there's a lot to be said for trial and error, as well as adjusting technique for better results.

As long as you create your own quixotic world view on the fly and cling it with your negative appraisal and logic, instead of trying to understand what others actually say and mean Jeffrey, you will never understand anyone, - not even remotely.

Aren't you the one that is in fact loosing his time with stepping in in every thread and writing a book called - the never ending tirade of hatred about me? What's your problem man?

IMO:

Your two personal quibbles aside, I think you both are talking about how to raise a forest instead of getting each tree to do its best.

First off, I really don't care if anyone imitates my set-up or not. Been through that argument in a Container Growing thread and got tired of the "experts" telling me what I was doing was wrong, though it was working for me. Lesson One: don't preach to the choir - give advice to those who are tone-deaf and want to learn.

Lesson Two - each grow is different as each the micro-parts of each system. I'm learning - the plants at the front of my 12-plant station are doing far better than those at the far end. Note to self: put the water/nutrient delivery system in the middle so that all the plants get the same delivery.

Lesson Three - there is nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with following time-tested methodology. At the same time, do not expect any results above the norm they have recorded. If the world was still using the time-tested and proven methods used back in the 1700s, we would have starved to death generations ago.

Lesson Four - use everything one has learned about their particular situation and apply it. Don't ignore imperial data that says "you need this to accomplish this" but do not be afraid try something different - but follow the grow through completion. To wit: I raised both a tomato and hot pepper plant that was the closest thing to perfection I have ever seen for 10-week old plants. But guess what - neither one produced a single bloom, let alone fruit. Why? I'm not sure, but my hypothesis is they had not accumulated close to the GDDs they needed to by their biological age. Sort of like a beauty queen who takes perfect care of her body and looks great at the age of 50 but whose ovaries are spent.

Lesson Five - Ricky Nelson sang about this more than 40 years ago: you can't please everyone so you ought to please yourself. That's all I want to do - to maximize my production while minimizing my expenses and work.

Mike

As always on this forum with less contributing members (gee I wonder why), its either a (book) method, or someone who has tried year after year different ways.

Perhaps instead of the book method, we can conclude that this way of growing things book wise is pretty new, and despite published data, perhaps we have a lot to learn?

You choose.

Ok,
So what's the verdict regarding Rockwool vs. Rapid Rooter?

How can you even expect or ask for a verdict between both, hardclay?

There wasn't a single sound contribution about Rapidrooter. The only thing I noticed wasn't even accurate, as Rapidrooter isn't exactly "much like most any kind of spo(u)nge like media", but quoting the manufacturer: "a unique matrix of composted organic material bound together by plant-derived polymers". Hence the main focus seems to be on "organic" and the rather unique feature of containing extra "micro nutrients and beneficial bacteria". As far as I can tell, there isn't any sponge-like media available that even remotely has these specs.

And anyway, are there any "verdicts" at all in this or other forums, even used as a figure of speech? The actual week point of forums is in fact that there is often a lot of various opinions and more or less qualified contributions, but nothing gets ever really decided, resolved or actually concluded at the end of the day. In some cases it's actually too bad - but in many others it's probably better and safer that way. LOL

Welcome to the Internet!

"The actual week point of forums is in fact that there is often a lot of various opinions and more or less qualified contributions"

Except from the only "qualified contribution" self proclaiming knowing of everything about hydroponics (lucas). And I don't try to intentionally go the long way about saying something simple. To me 7 paragraphs to say the same thing that can be said in 1 or 2 sentences is what I would consider to be excessive. But then again there would be no room left to stroke that ego. And "Jeffrey" oh please I have not been called that (by an adult, not even my mom who gave me the name) in decades, makes me feel young again. But feel free to address me that way if you wish, it simply makes me feel younger.

I know this thread was started for input from people who have direct knowledge of using both, and I would still like to hear about that. But it doesn't seem that there is anyone who has compared both directly side by side, so I don't think that will happen anytime soon. On top of that, wordwiz who started the post in the first place (from what I understand) has already bought the rapid rooter product and will be able to do his/her own side by side comparison. But for me it's not the growing medium that sprouts seeds, it's the conditions they are given that gets them to sprout. Not to mention if the seeds were able to grow in the first place (seed quality).

Homehydro,
Not at all my saying, - in forums not much gets actually decided and verdicts aren't usually done because this is the very nature of most forums. Obviously with or without my humble self and intervention or the personal qualification of anyone (including my own). When I talk about various opinions and more or less qualified contributions, although I am part of the lot, I DO NOT even emphazise on my own qualification. Not initially , neither explicitly nor implicitly. And certainly not because you assume it tendentially and repeatedly, - yet wrongly. Repeating something ad noseam, like you try for a while now, - doesn't make it become true nor real - no way!

Besides paraphrasing others and stating the obvious in a different way, - you repeatedly assume, presume and anticipate wrongly about nearly everything that comes up or is said by others. Indeed, disputing, contradicting and contesting, - WITHOUT better knowledge not having anything to backup your claims, no factual evidence but using verbal distortion only - that's what you truly do best. I mean nobody is perfect and everyone is prone to error and tends to anticipate wrongly and over-hasty sometimes. But I truly never ever have encountered someone like you who is almost always wrong and seems to not even want to realize it. Hence not even get smarter a bit with experience and over time.

Your last assumption: why exactly would you assume that wordwiz has already bought the Rapidrooter medium anyway?

And saying that given conditions and seed quality makes seeds sprout, - is there any better textbook example than this for STATING THE ABSOLUTELY AND UNARGUABLY OBVIOUS by shifting the relevance?! Have you ever thought of the fact, that both seed quality and conditions are two variables like any other, and that the choice of medium plus a working technique the others? And that in some context like discussed, a certain seed quality and a specific growing conditions are in fact the given,- while the choice of the right medium together with an adequate technique would hence determine the result in the role of a variable? In other words, there is absolutely no point (or gain) in mixing it all up by shifting the relevance on other variables - except desperately trying to look smarter than anyone at the end.

Textbook Projection, - what you accuse me of doing, is in fact what you do even better than I could ever perform. LOL

"Your last assumption: why exactly would you assume that wordwiz has already bought the Rapidrooter medium anyway?"

That was not an assumption AS YOU SAY (your the one ASSuming), and again just you wanting to think so perfect, and your ego thinking you are right about everything. Simply because of this statement by wordwiz that was posted earlier on Wed, Sep 29, 10 at 22:25, in this thread.

"Not that it makes any difference, at least to me at this time. I need to start seeds soon and very soon, so I went ahead and ordered the RR tray."

This is really funny;
"And saying that given conditions and seed quality makes seeds sprout, - is there any better textbook example than this for STATING THE ABSOLUTELY AND UNARGUABLY OBVIOUS by shifting the relevance?!"

If it so "ABSOLUTELY AND UNARGUABLY OBVIOUS" then why did you take 7 paragraphs for you to say the same thing (simply stroking an ego is why).

"Have you ever thought of the fact, that both seed quality and conditions are two variables like any other, and that the choice of medium plus a working technique the others? And that in some context like discussed, a certain seed quality and a specific growing conditions are in fact the given,- while the choice of the right medium together with an adequate technique would hence determine the result in the role of a variable? In other words, there is absolutely no point (or gain) in mixing it all up by shifting the relevance on other variables - except desperately trying to look smarter than anyone at the end. "

Again just stroking your own ego (you'd think your arm would be tired by now). Why would I not have thought about seed quality and growing conditions are variables. Did I not already mention that? This is the question you are asking, did you (lucas) think of mentioning it first? And in this case yes, but you ASSume that everyone else is to dumb to already know that (stroking your own ego). Did you ever think that the rest of us already knew that, and simply did not address it because we felt it was a given, and simply already understood? And that your 7 paragraphs only stated the obvious, something that could have easily been said in one or two sentience, like the ones you clam I wrote trying to look smart. FACT IS you think everyone else is just dumb, and you are the only smart person on the planet.

And what makes it the right medium (your say so). FACT is that a growing medium does not sprout seeds. If it does my growing medium of choice is a wet paper towel every time.

"Textbook Projection, - what you accuse me of doing, is in fact what you do even better than I could ever perform."

You clearly underestimate yourself, I guess they don't have mirrors in that country.

lucas
I wasn't planning to but I guess I will add this post so you don't think I was afraid to addressed these points. Fact is I started replying from the middle of your post and forgot about the beginning.

"When I talk about various opinions and more or less qualified contributions, although I am part of the lot, I DO NOT even emphazise on my own qualification. Not initially , neither explicitly nor implicitly"

Except that you never refer to anyone else as a "qualified" person. Therefor you seem to be the only qualified person. You refer to possibly meaning others as qualified, so name them (other than you) so I know who to look up to.

"WITHOUT better knowledge not having anything to backup your claims"

This is a huge laugh coming from someone who clams to not need to provide proof because anything you say should just be considered as fact. Is that not the definition of a hypocrite?

"I mean nobody is perfect and everyone is prone to error and tends to anticipate wrongly and over-hasty sometimes. But I truly never ever have encountered someone like you who is almost always wrong and seems to not even want to realize it. Hence not even get smarter a bit with experience and over time. "

You mean that you have never ran into someone that wont bow down to you. Kiss your butt etc.. Sorry I guess that's there problem. I'm not wrong (just) because you say so, for the same reason that you are not wrong just because (I) say so. The difference is your ego and need to be right (and your opinion needing to be the right one).

In your opinion I'm just as dumb as I have ever been. Why, because I refuse to kiss your a**. I will never kiss anything of yours, and it has nothing to do with ego (but self respect). So don't hold your breath you have nothing I want to learn (ouch, for a ego as big as yours).

It has everything to do with self respect. To make a long story short I was taught self respect by the opposite of your technique. I was given respect and lived up to the challenge. Once I knew what it was like to respect yourself, I simply refuse to to give that feeling up. I can be wrong (that's not self respect). But accepting things if your are wrong is part of the responsibility. You can always shovel things under the carpet but you will always know, respecting yourself when you are the only one that knows is important to me. I don't care if anyone likes me, I can respect myself when I look in the mirror.

My rapid rooter tray and plugs arrived a day early - not that I am complaining. First impression - yeah these things absorb a bunch of water. I added five pitchers full for 50 plugs.

The original plan was to sow six varieties, I ended up sowing five each of 10 types:
Jetsetter
Bush Goliath
Fantom Hybrid
Cabernet
BHN 589
First Prize
IT 06 313
Florida 91
Celebrity
Brandywine Red

The tray is sitting on a heat mat set at 86 degrees and covered with plastic. With rockwool, the quickest germinatio I have had is seven days, I'll let you know how long these take as well as the overall germ rate.

Mike

I saw very small shoots starting to emerge this morning. Not a lot, but six-eight.

Mike

Wow. All these posts and nearly no substance. There were really only two that seemed to answer the question. I agree with Lucas in that the method is the issue when it comes to failure and not the media. That's about it on the agreement with him, though.

Mr. Pepper is 100% correct despite Lucas' post, as you likely have now discovered, Mike. Rapid Rooters are a sponge like material. In fact, if I didn't actually read on the package that they are made of composted bark, I would have assumed they were synthetic sponges. Same porosity, same texture, and guess what. . . they absorb nearly the same amount of water when compared to generic kitchen sponges per mass (I checked because I was wondering if using sponges would be a way to reuse worn out ones from the kitchen). That makes them sponge like. Not a sponge, but behaves like one.

In my experience: I have tried rockwool. I have failed at a much higher rate than I have succeeded. I don't have time to baby my seedlings/clones completely or make sure the conditions are perfect. 4 kids, work full time, and I'm in school right now (chemistry). I've found the rockwool a lot less forgiving than the rapid rooters. With clones, rockwool use has resulted in 80% failure for me due to damping off. The plants were tomatoes (3 varieties) and coleus. Both practically do the job for you often times, but not in rockwool when I have done it. I've never lost a single clone to this with rapid rooters. I don't start seeds in them, though. I only have results on the rapid rooters with clones. I did start coleus seeds in rockwool. If it weren't for the success I've had with those, my failure rate would be 100% with rockwool. I'll never buy that stuff again. Besides, I can throw the rapid rooter plugs in my worm bins when I'm all done. Not the rockwool.

Thanks Joe.
That seems to be the kind of answer Mike was after in the first place.

jj,

One thing I have noticed, re - the difference between RR and a Sponge - the RR loses water at a very, very slower rate! Even after sitting on a heating mat set to 85 degrees, with ambient air temps between 72-94 and left uncovered for four days, the RR has lost next to zero water.

They are more expensive than Rockwool but worth it - IMO.

Mike

Joe, if you would simply leave the "personal recurrent pulse thing" out of the equation and wouldn't play people's statements against each other, - you wouldn't miss the point by that far.

I would have skip this part anyway, if it wasn't said in a rather pejorative context as in "RR is just like any other sponge-like medium". But there I couldn't disagree more... and still am.

What wordwiz reported there about the other big difference between sponge and rapid rooters, distinguishes them even more from each other. Due to different water retaining capabilities, both become indeed even more distinguishable. Purely factually and pragmatically speaking, there is no single argument left to sustain what was said earlier. Why calling Rapid rooters "sponge like" -as RR has actually nothing in common with a sponge, and indeed too much that distinguishes it from it. Why put them in relation any longer and anyway? A clear case, I can't say otherwise!

As for the Rockwool: your experiences are indeed very different than mines. I simply imagine myself (as if I had never tried Rockwool) reading such diametrically different personal experiences and comments. I would probably find myself being unable to making a choice. I would probably prefer getting a few more opinions before drawing any further conclusion ;-)

Rockwool cubes either small or very small (like mines) can be reused over and over again as part of any inert hydroponic substrate mix. If using any such mixes of course. Hence the choice of using them or not may as well depend on your way of dealing with them eventually. This part is only an issue as long as you haven't found a practical solution for it. ;-)

In fact I make a lot of decision concerning diner, in accordance of what I may have got as leftovers from lunch....if ever I have.

Cheers,
Lucas

Hey Mike,

I forgot to mention that something negative I have noticed about the rapid rooters is that they will mildew (another sponge like property). You'll smell it. I'm talking about when you store them if you buy them in quantity. I usually soak them in a weak peroxide solution before using them in case anything bad has started growing if they have been sitting very long. It may be unnecessary, but it gives me peace of mind. I only do it when I am cleaning other items, so I don't make a batch especially for the rapid rooters.

"I would have skip this part anyway, if it wasn't said in a rather pejorative context as in "RR is just like any other sponge-like medium". But there I couldn't disagree more... and still am."

I know that many people don't believe in definitions here (so I wont bother with that), but I just wanted to say that where I live, a sponge is porous material that absorbs and holds moisture (some better than others). So the way I see it, a sponge like material holds moisture. So How is the RR material not like that. From what I've read, that's the exact quality it has. Is there a water to air ratio in the definition? Or are you just making your own definitions again?

i prefer rapid rooters over rockwool i also soak them in a h2o2 solution to stop any molding i only use them for cutting after eighteen yrs of using rockwool for cuttings i was given a free sample of rr a year ago and haven't looked back i have achieved 100% success not losing one cutting since i switched over i know i'm really late to this thread but i do have practical experience with both hope that helps someone out there

catman,

Better late than never!

I don't do cuttings so can't address that aspect, but since then I have tried a couple other things. IMO, the clear winner is the Oasis Horticubes. Much faster and higher germ rates, far less expensive (important if one is talking about hundreds or thousands of seedlings) and are forgiving if over-watered. Their only downside is they dry out fast but I have learned to keep them in water, at least the bottom of them. I have some tomato plants I started about 6-7 weeks ago that are everything I could hope for.

YMMV,

Mike

wow thanks for the heads up with the oasis i've wondered about them for years one draw back of the rr is the shape they don't lend themselves to staying upright w/out assistance i'm gonna try some of those oasis products i never realized that they could be cost effective thanks thats why these forums are so powerful

RR is bad, bad, bad. Your experience may differ, but I just chucked all the tom plants in my aero hydro grow that were started in RR. They grew great, had blossoms but were wilting badly. The other plants all have nice roots growing from the net pots, some 5-6" long. The RR plants - not a single root.

When I dumped them out, the original cube was solid roots. But none extended from the sides or bottom.

YMMV, but I like the horticubes much, much better. Three days after moving them to the hydro, they have white roots coming out the sides and bottom of the net pots.

Mike

That doesn't mean RR's are bad. It means 1) you did something wrong (which I doubt, but it's possible) or 2) they just aren't suited for the aero hydro grow. They work fine in the application they are actually made for, which saturates the RR completely. That being said, you got me interested in the horticubes.

joe,

Yeah, I suspect it is the aero. I might have suspected it was me if all the plants were the same, but the ones in the horticubes are doing great. I Googled Rapid Rooter Aeroponics and didn't see where anyone else had the same results, but most of the growers mention using a cycle timer with a decent off period. Perhaps the things were getting too much water!

I'm sold on the horticubes. I've let about six of the tom seedling grow and the plants are now at least 8" tall and look good, especially given the lower light levels and decent warm they have been growing in. They do require water - I found it best to simply let them sit in a couple of inches. I'll end up building a trough in the greenhouse so I won't have to worry about watering more than once a day, maybe once every three days.

Too bad there are six inches of snow on the ground and the temps flirting with single digits - I wish it was sunny and 60 - I would be working on it now!

Mike

"Too bad there are six inches of snow on the ground and the temps flirting with single digits - I wish it was sunny and 60"

Move here to Lake Havasu city AZ. Today it was 67% (kinda low), last week was in the mid 70% (and ya, plenty of sun). But, we have dreadful summers. In fact the hot air balloon festival started today (this weekend only). And spring break will be starting in March (it's six weeks long). But come June, I and you I'm sure will wish you are right back where you are. Grass is always greener somewhere else it seems (until you live there).

hh,

A guy I met in a DTP forum years ago and now writes a monthly article for my newspaper lives in Surprise. I have heard about the summer heat and not touching metal with bare hands!

Mike

Ya wordwiz, I can assure you he wasn't exaggerating (I have many pairs of gloves).

I work in a Hydro shop and we use Rapid Rooters, Oasis cubes and Rockwool to start seeds and cutting for just about every hydro setup you can imagine. I have seen no difference in how quick seeds start, the quality of the plants after they root (other than the seeds themselves) or how the react in any of the systems. In all of the 3 listed I have grown from seed Lettuce to Brussel Spouts and even some tree seeds. The Oasis cubes need to be kept from drying and the RR and Rockwool keep moist for days. So between them all the only thing you have left is what you like to use personally. I would say grab a few of each and see which you prefer.

Turtle