Randall, in all seriousness I would follow permaculture techniques in every aspect beginning with necessary earthworks for natural on-land rainwater harvesting (and drought-proofing) and after that your food forest as you desire and your vegetable zones (gardens).

This would take some time to study or to hire a consultant but it, truly, is the most cost-effective and ecologically effective means of obtaining your goals.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it!

First - Water Solutions for All
Second - Self-Sustainability
Third - Productivity

bon

Randall,

I suspect that if you aren't there and don't have a means to physically protect the trees, they won't survive. But the permaculture suggestions are excellent. I have a friend, here in Tahlequah, who is taking a large acreage the permaculture route. I will use the Gardenweb mail system to send you her contact info. Hope you have that feature activated. Otherwise, send me a message with your e-mail. I believe it would be very much worth your time to get a basic orientation to permacullture and a consultation by someone who really knows before you actually do anything with the land.

George

I go with George, do the "Ground Work" first. First research and planning and getting the soil ready. There in not a lot you can do from 1500 miles away.

Do have the tools and equipment you will need in the future? If you don't have the things you will need, start saving you money because you will need it.

Larry

If you are wanting sell as a certified organic producer, you might also start that certification process now, if you can (I don't really know anything about the process, other than the fact that I've been told it's pretty complicated.
Krista

If I had that much land, I would be seriously looking into growing hops. The craft beer market is exploding across the country, brewery's are popping up everywhere.

This has got to be putting demand on hops, especially locally grown hops. I've got no data to support that, just a real hunch.

On another note, OETA began airing a show weekly this spring, called the Land Doctors. Its aimed directly at people who own relatively small amounts of land. Its on YouTube also, you should be able to subscribe and find past shows at the link I'm posting.

Here is a link that might be useful: Land Doctors

Randall,

I agree that permaculture is the route to take as it will be the agricultural system that helps you grow in the most sustainable way possible for the long haul.

One of the first things I'd do would be to get soil tests done through OSU to learn about the tilth and fertility of the soil and its pH. Whatever you choose to grow needs to be something that will grow in whatever soil pH you have. With 80 acres, you might find a lot of variation in your soil. We have only 14.4 acres and our soil runs the gamut from very dense, highly compacted red clay (I call it flower pot clay because I think I could make pots from it) to sandy-clay to sandy-silty soil to some almost pure sand. During a recent construction project, we found the worst gray clay and yellow clay I've ever seen, and that kinda explains why even native plants have struggled in that area. Different plants grow well in different kinds of soil, and your chances for success increase when you match the plants you're planting to the kind of soil they need. I'd never attempt to grow cherry trees, for example, in the red clay but would plant them in the sandy-silty soil because it does drain really well and they need well-drained soil. You may find you need to choose different plants for different parts of the property depending on the soil. Soil and water in my part of our region runs in the 8.0-8.2 pH range and even though I have long known that, when I saw someone on TV discussing our high soil and water pH and all the problems it causes, it was so depressing to hear it. I've amended our soil well enough that we can grow veggies and some fruit, but never would be able to grow something like blueberries here because they need acidic soil. Even if I built a bed for them with nothing but imported material to make an acidic growing mix, the high-pH water would be working against me all the time. So, part of using your land well will involve understanding what your soil pH and water pH will allow you to do.

Secondly, if the land is heavily infested with cedar trees, as so many parts of Oklahoma are, I'd encourage you to remove as many of them as you can as quickly as you can. They are a huge, huge fire risk and will out-compete whatever you plant. They guzzle up tons of water that would better serve the plants that you choose to grow on purpose.

Third, OSU is your friend. Because you want to go into commercial agriculture, the agriculture extension service is your best source for advice from professionals. They have tons of fact sheets on their website---some are aimed at home gardeners but many more are filled with information for commercial growers.

The Ardmore-based Noble Foundation also has a heavy focus on agriculture and has done lots and lots of research on growing crops in Oklahoma. They sometimes offer classes and courses too.

If you choose to grow fruit, keep in mind that Oklahoma has very erratic springtime temperatures which can wreak havoc on fruit trees. Often, late freezes, frosts or even late snow storms occur when the fruit trees are in bloom, even though you have chosen fruit tree varieties with the proper number of chilling hours for your region. If you decide to grow fruit, study the chilling hours of each variety carefully and select the ones that give your trees the best chance to produce a crop. As a home gardener, I chose fruit trees well within the range of chilling hours that are recommended for southern Oklahoma, and still get a great harvest only 1 year out of every three, have a so-so harvest 1 year out of three and no harvest one year out of three. As our climate changes and we have more and more erratic weather in spring with later and later frosts, my fruit numbers are starting to change and I may have to start saying I only get a great harvest 1 year out of 4.

Growing plants isn't the only option. There's always ranching, and our native pastureland in many parts of OK can provide a lot of forage for cattle if enough rain is falling. Hopefully the 80 acres has adequate water sources on it.

There's no guarantee that whatever water sources you find on the property will not change. When we bought our property in 1997, it had three ponds, a swamp and at least 3 creeks---one of which was a year-round creek and two to four others that ran seasonally. We also had springs, some of which fed the swamp and ponds. After too many years of recurring drought, we have ponds that haven't held significant amounts of water for more than a couple of weeks at a time since the summer of 2010, the springs dried up, the swamp stopped being swampy, and I now fill a small man-made pond with the water hose and fill animal waterers with a water hose just so the deer, rabbits, birds and other wildlife have drinking water readily available throughout the summer. I never would have thought we'd see such a change in our property at all, and certainly not as quickly as it occurred. Our spring that fed our pond started struggling to keep water in it around 2003 (a year in which our rainfall, which averages 38" per year, was under 19") and it has been all downhill ever since. The big pond has been empty for so long that the land is reverting to forest. Wet spots here and there where springs ran no longer are wet ever. It looks sort of silly to have a fishing dock in a dry woodland, but that's what we have now. It is hard now to remember there was a time, as recently as 13-15 years ago when you could sit on the dock and fish or sit and watch the dog swim slow laps around the pond endlessly. Keep your plans flexible until you have an adequate assessment of what sort of natural water supply there is as well as how it survives the dry spells because a lot of Oklahoma isn't nearly as wet as it used to be.

Finally, I'll tell you an old farming and ranching joke that is more true than we'd like to think. Joe Brown won the lottery and collected a check for a million dollars. When his friends excitedly asked him what he was going to do with all that money, he said "I'll just keep farming and ranching until I use it all up." I live in an area once filled with farms and pecan orchards, and most of them now are cattle or horse ranches because that's the best way to make money off the land in this area now. Even so, the ranchers struggle to provide their animals with adequate forage and water in the dry years, but their property wouldn't stand a chance as a farm or orchard because the cost of irrigation is so high and it is getting harder and harder to drill a well and find water. The last home built in our area doesn't have a well, but it isn't for lack of trying. They hired a driller with decades of experience and a great reputation here and after drilling several dry holes, they gave up on the idea of having well water. No matter what that 80 acres was like in the past, you may find that the dry years that have occurred all too frequently in the 2000s may have impacted its available water, and in agriculture, available water is one of the keys to success.

Good luck in making decisions on what you'll do with that 80 acres, and I hope you'll keep us posted as you evaluate your options and figure out what will work best for you and your family on that land.

Dawn

Can't add much except to agree with George and Dawn. There's no point to planting garden or orchard crops in Ok until you are on site to manage them--water, fertilize, spray, prune--there's a lot of work to managing orchards. There is no way you can plant grapes or fruit trees and leave them untended for 3 years. They will die.

Forgot to say WELCOME!!

Thanks so much, everyone. I'm really impressed with the quality of advice you've given me. I'm not sure how to respond to each person individually in this forum. I don't see a reply to after each post, only this follow-up. So thanks to each of you individually.
Certainly a lot to think about. I suspected that the fruit tree idea was pie in the sky thinking. (I was already making pies with the fruit before I even planted the trees.) My sister-in-law said the same thing about the one good harvest every three years in OK. That’s too bad.
Dawn, your extensive feedback is extremely appreciated. Love the joke. Why does everything I want to do happen to be something I'll probably lose money doing? I have downloaded some things from OSU in the past. Perhaps what I need to do this August is not to plant anything but just get some experts out like the Land Doctors (thx LCDollar) or people from OSU to give me a clear direction. The land has historically had a lot of water. There is a creek that runs through it. My dad said that somebody from the State came out at one point and told him that a lot of it is wetlands. I think he was not allowed to put a pond on it for that reason, and that may limit my options. There are one or two wells out there that seem to be quite full. It’s been in my mother’s family for close to 100 years now. My parents took it over so that they could see it stay together, but it’s becoming more of a liability than anything, especially as they get older.
I’m going to be researching permaculture for sure. There’s a place in Oregon that offers courses in permaculture, so I may do something like that. I’ll also look into things like indoor Tilapia farming, worm farming, chickens, rabbits, cattle, pigs, etc. You-pick farming. Anything I can think of that might make it possible for me to live on (and off of) the land!
Again, thanks for the help and the welcome.
Randy

Yes, welcome!! I have nothing to add, but I do want to point out if you have been used to living in areas with regular rainfall, or places where you have never had to think about rain, Oklahoma is very different! On the flip side, it is a very welcoming state, full of friendly people!

We have four seasons, even if spring is kinda iffy... too cold or too hot and almost always too short! But we have lovely falls, usually. I don't know which part of Washington you are from, but our winters here are really pretty nice, if you have been used to long cold northern winters. Yes, it gets cold, sometimes we have ice, but we don't measure snow in feet generally :) We are lucky to have a couple snows a year. I think I have shoveled snow maybe 3 times in 20 years! I'm from the plains of Colorado, so I grew up where winter was a lot more "wintery"! I still have the Colorado blood....I bet I only put on a coat two or three times over the winter.

Lisa

So much depends on the specific site and soil that it is difficult to help. There are reasons why people grow things in the places and ways that they do, and there are reasons some people make money and some lose money.

I can help you if you want to lose money. Sigh.

If you could figure out how to make a profit on cedar trees....you could be a billionaire! They are a serious problem.

Scott, here's one of my favorites:

Three people were discussing what they would do if they should win th multi-zillion dollar powerball drawing. The first, a lawyer, said, "I'd buy myself an estate in the French Alps and retire there." The second, a doctor, said, "I'd purchase my own private tropical island and live there, going fishing every day!"

The third, a farmer, with a far off look in his eyes, said, "I suppose, I'd do exactly what I'm doing now... until the money was gone.

George

LOL. Thanks for the offer, Scott, but I'm pretty good at losing money on my own. :(
Maybe there IS something there with farming cedar trees. We use tons of cedar for fencing, siding, hamster bedding... We'll make a fortune! Of course it probably would take twenty years for them to reach harvesting age.
Lisa, thanks for the info on the weather. I grew up in OK. Been away for 20+ years. Been in Western Washington (seattle/tacoma area) for ten years. I really miss the weather in OK. We have two seasons here: wet and wetter. I wear a jacket about ten months of the year. We get very little sun and steady drizzle at least nine months per year. Very depressing. Beautiful country. Great place to visit but you wouldn't want to live here.

If you would harvest the trees....people would let you have them :) They are highly flammable, so they cause all sorts of problems during wild fires. Plus they suck up a ton of water.

Burning Red Cedar Problem

I foresee in a few years hearing, "I miss the rain..." :) Just kidding!

Here is a link that might be useful: OK County removes cedars for free

I love, love, love permaculture ideas and studied permaculture ideas for a year or so before taking an online permaculture design certificate course from Geoff Lawton. He is amazing and I learned an amazing amount. If you can afford one of his courses that would be a great way to start. Google his name and watch some of his free stuff online.

It appears I was correct about the market for hops, there was a report on CNBC just this morning about the demand for hops and whether a bubble was developing ( hahaha, there's always bubble talk , these days ) . I provide a link to the report .

If I had 80 acres, I would contact local craft brewers in OKC and Tulsa, and collaborate with them to provide them with hops. It could be a consistent income source, no matter what happens on a national level.

Unless one might have moral objections, which each to their own, there's opportunity in this area. Probably the most popular craft brewer in Oklahoma, is Prairie Artisan Ales in Tulsa. And they have just recently purchased a run down nine hole golf course and turned it into " Praire Farms ", where they are beginning to grow all the ingredients for their beers.

Here is a link that might be useful: Hops farming

Any update Randall1234 with the 80 acres?