What's your altitude and what kind of soil do you have? And do you have deer issues or is the garden protected?

We're at about 7900 feet.

The garden is in an alcove area by the front door. It's not fenced off, but not overly easy to get to. We have some wildlife in the area, mostly elk in the fall. Can't say I've seen them come that close to this garden area, though.

The soil is somewhat rocky. Beyond that, I don't know much about the soil.

OK. So you are looking for some zone 3 to zone 4 light shade plants and you can provide water. This is not my area of expertice (I never have much water) but I have some suggestions and hopefully, people will chime in with more suggestions. Please note - you are going to want to read the plant tags carefully to check that they are cold hardy. Some hostas, for example, will be cold hardy for you and some will not. Check for the zones I listed above.

So here are some suggestions:

Hostas - deer like them but they are very tough plants

Astilbes - need water

Aruncus - takes a while to get established but very tough

Cranesbill - deer like them and they reseed somewhat but not like they do in Iowa. Lots of variety in color and height.

Lamium - another tough plant

Brunnera - I have found the plain old fashion variety
tougher than the new cultivars like Jack Frost.

Meadow Rue (Thalictrum) - good for height. The seed pods are interesting after the bloom is through.

Bleeding heart - just finishing 2 months plus of blooms in my garden at 6500'

Aconitum - Monkshood. Warning - this plant is poisonous so if you have children or dogs that like to chomp plants, this is not the plant for you.

Columbines - the classic CO plant. Deer like them.

Alchemilla - love that green.

Campanula - depends on how thick your shade is. I grow them successfully under apple trees.

Polemonium - Jacob's ladder

lungwort - pulmonaria

I personally find the best thing for gardening in CO is a good sense of humor. The weather is never the same 2 years in a row. When the garden gets destroyed by animals or the weather, the sense of humor helps!

Good luck, Nancy

Hi Rookie,

Welcome to RMG!

The list Nancy posted is greatespecially the part about having a sense of humor! ;-)

I have a few things to add that I have on the north side of my house.

Bergenia cordifolia, big leathery evergreen leaves that sometimes turn red in fall, loves to stay wet.

Heuchera sanguinea, the regular green-leaf coral bells
or some of the dark leaf Heucheras would probably work at your altitude too, but check individual varieties for hardiness before trying them. ÂChocolate Ruffles should work.

Polygonatum odoratum ÂVariegatumÂ, variegated SolomonÂs seal, no flowers but nice variegated foliage with nice arching stems.

Trollius spp., globeflower

Foxglove, some of the different species should work that highÂDigitalis grandiflora, D. lanata, D. mertonensis, D. thapsi, and there may be more.

Anemone sylvestris which is good in sun or shade.

And some of the hardy ferns would be hardy up there too, but I donÂt have a list of exactly which ones.

Most of these things, especially the hosta, which I highly recommend because of the wide variety, will do much better if you add quite a bit of organic matter to the area as youÂre planting. That could be either a good quality store-bought compost, or moist Canadian peat. Anything that helps make the soil "light and fluffy!" The organic matter will help hold moisture and will also hold nutrients if/when you feed your plants. Most of the hostas are hardy to z3, so they would work for you, but hostas are usually one of the last things to come up in spring, and one of the first things to freeze in fallÂbut theyÂre still worth it!

HereÂs a link to the CSU Extension Service. They have lots of really good information, and if you click on the County Offices link, it will show which office is closest to you in case you ever want to get help directly from themÂbut you can email for help tooÂif you donÂt get an answer here, of course! But usually youÂll find that somebody around here will have an answer for you, so we hope to see more of you!

Glad you found us,
Skybird

Wow - what a great list! This is a great website for rookies like me! Thanks, Skybird and Nancy!!

I already had a list provided by the CSU extension service, and was trying to filter through it all. I had highlighted the bloody cranesbill and the brunnera, so was glad to see these 2 pop up on your list.

Any reaction to lupine, garden phlox or balloon flower?

Any recommendation on where to buy these plants in either the Loveland/Ft. Collins area or the Longmont area? We generally just grab plants at the local garden centers here in Iowa (Lowes/Home Depot for most, Earl May for specialty products), but not sure whether we should be going anywhere special in Colorado.

I've read that we should not bring Iowa products to Colorado - they need to be grown in Colorado temps/altitude to survive in the Estes area - am not sure how factually that is backed up or whether that's a good "support Colorado" posture. Logistically, it would be easier to bring the plants with us when we go there next, but if it makes a difference in the plants surviving and thriving, we would gladly purchase there.

I'm very appreciative of your advice!! Thanks for taking the time to help us out!!

Hi,

Lupine, garden phlox and balloon flower will all grow for you but they generally need more sun than the light shade you said you had. You could try them though.

I have never been plant shopping in Loveland or Ft Collins so I can't help with that question. I do buy lots of plants at Lowes and home depot - sometimes with luck and sometimes not. I do attempt to purchase mostly locally grown plants as I think they are more accustomed to our wild weather and very strong sun.

If you buy plants in early May, you are going to have to put them inside for quite a while. My average last frost date is 15 May. That means I take a look at the long range forecast and hope like heck it is correct. The last frost date that I remember in my 20+ years of gardening here is the first week of June. That is quite a bit different than 15 May. I generally have to cover plants at least once a year with sheets to protect them against snow or frost. All that said, perennials properly hardened off are quite frost tolerant.

Anybody else out there with nursery suggestions for Mountain Rookie?

Nancy

Hi Rookie,

I just refreshed the thread and see that Nancy posted too while I was writing this, but heres my take on the situation!
------------------------

I just have a couple minutes. I thought of listing lupines, but left them out because I, personally, have not had much luck so farbut Ive been starting them from seed. I know they grow well for other people around here, so go for itand remember the sense of humor!

The phlox and balloon flowers would both take a fair amount of direct sun to do well. Do you have some areas with more sun? And have you figured out yet that the sun is a LOT hotter up here than it is at sea level? If your hostas are getting any continuous direct midday or afternoon sun, they will very possibly burn on you, so be sure theyre in a place with only very filtered sun or complete shade. Some of the other things on both Nancys and my lists will also suffer if in too much sun, so keep a good eye on the area before you plant so you can place plants appropriately. If you find you have more sun than you thought, we can recommend LOTS more things thatll work!

Its not near you, but the absolutely best place to buy perennialswidest selection of varietiesin the front range area is Timberline Gardens on the west side of Denver. If youre getting things at Lowes, etc., be sure to research them firstthey do sell things as "hardy" that definitely arentand the people who work there dont have a clue! I dont know of any garden centers north of Denver, but another Denver one is Paulino Gardens, and they have BIG sales on their perennials in fallprobably starting in August, but Im not sure. Just checked their site! Starting July 4th! 40% off!!! Theyre at exit 215 off of I25 just north of downtown. If you go there and have perennial questions, ask for Cherylif shes working that day.

Timberline is just a little ways north of I70 at Ward Road. I dont know if or when he has a perennial sale in fall. If you go there and have any questions at all, ask for Kelly!

As far as bringing plants from IowaGO FOR IT! If youve been buying plants at Lowes/HD, youve been getting stuff that mostly comes from California anyway! All that stuff at the big box stores is mass produced in warm climates and shipped in. If it were me, Id probably bring fairly small divisions off of the plants you want and let them get established and grow up out here in their new environment. Not everything will work, but I bet at least 90% of it will. Andremember the sense of humor part!

Gotta go! Have fun!
Skybird

Skybird and Nancy, thank you SO much for your advice! It has been very helpful to us as we're getting our plans made. We're going to be out there in a couple of weeks, and I will watch how the sun/shade mix moves when we're there to make sure we're making the right plant choices. (Yes, we're aware that the sun burns both us and the plants more quickly at this altitude!)

Will keep the sense of humor at the forefront!!

Thanks a lot!!

Mountain Rookie

If you're coming down from the mountain and are willing to drive as far as Longmont, let me suggest Harlequin's Gardens in far north Boulder -- they specialize in native/adaptable plants and are very knowledgeable. I've had good luck with their suggestions for plants for dry shade.

White phlox is always a good standby in the dappled sunlit areas..
Other suggestions:
variegated sedge (carex - japanese) should have good winter success if its protected as you say it is, and also add some linear texture.
i like the gold money wort for low range texture.
Daphne carol macke if you want something with a little more size.
surprisingly, noone said heuchera! I admit, they are over used, but for a reason!
Ajuga might not bloom as heavily, but the texture is still awesome.. . always tough too!
That Yellow columbine, (denver gold i think?) always blooms well.
hellebores for the spring (i think someone may have said that, but DO IT!
ill bet kinnikinnick would work well up there..
Ligularia works well for me.. tolerates the cold better than the heat.
English primrose is always a winner!
Sweet woodruff? - only as a groundcover forground.
...
depending on HOW irrigated, irish moss + japanese sedge is a cool combo. If you're not into the idea of winter watering though, you better just stick with the tough stuff..

Good luck, and welcome to CO!

Nancy and Skybird, you were SO helpful last year when I was working on this. I am hoping you might be able to steer me some more.

I took your advice last August to make sure I knew how much sun I was getting. Thank goodness I did - parts of my planting area are getting far more sun than I realized. One area is getting full sun from about 11am to 5:30pm, and dappled sun for a couple more hours. A second area is getting full sun from 11am to 2:30pm, and dappled sun for the rest of the day. The third area is getting dappled sun from about 4pm to 5:30pm, and full shade before and after.

Given that I'm at 7900' elevation, I think I should consider that first area (with 6-7 hours of full sun) a sunny area, right? If so, that completely changes the perennials I need to be looking at.

Your thoughts on that second area? Should I still be looking at the partial shade plants for an area with 3-4 hours of full sun at this elevation?

We'll be heading out to Estes in a few weeks, hopefully with the right plans in hand (and our sense of humor!!)

Many thanks for your advice!

Rookie

Hi Rookie,

We actually had a light frost last night at my house! Our average last frost date is normally 15 May. I didn't bother going out to look at the zinnias and heliotrope - I wasn't certain about my sense of humor on a Monday morning before coffee.

I am certain somebody will disagree with me but I consider any place that gets 4 hours of sun or more a day as full sun at our altitude. Your second area that is getting full sun from 11 to 2:30 and then dappled sun might qualify too as it is midday sun. I think I would work with plants in that area that take full to partial sun.

The area with sun from 4 to 5:30 is definitely a partial sun area so I would work with partial sun to shade plants there.

I think I will add a little comment about CO shade here. Shade comes in many varieties from dense shade to bright shade to dappled shade. I have a couple of very old big apple trees that provide about 12 hours of dappled shade. It is amazing how many full to partial sun plants will grow under them. I have Alert asters, shastas, saponaria, May Night salvia, heliopsis Summer Sun and a bunch of other stuff that are very happy in that location.

My general plan is to try a couple of plants in a dappled sun location for a year and if they aren't happy, I move them into more sun. Of course, that assumed that the deer haven't eaten them down to the ground but that is a different issue altogether.

Happy planting, Nancy

Alright, Nancy, Ill disagree with you! But first, Im sorry to hear about the frost you got! I hope some of the things you thought were gonners made it after all.

When I was in the green industry, we generally told people that if they had 6 to 6½ hours of direct sun, they could consider it full sun. I agree, that the altitude makes some difference, but I think the specific plants make more of a difference. Some things arent gonna do well in 6 hours of direct sun even at high altitude, and a lot of things that are sold as full sun perennials can easily take 4 hours or less and still do well, even at "low" altitudetho Im talking about "Rocky Mountain low altitude," not sea level!

Your first area would be considered full sun by almost anybodys standards, Rookie. The 11:00 to 2:30 area Id put in the part sun categorybut like I said above, there are lots of things sold as "full sun" plants that will do well there. And I do agree with Nancy that your altitudeand the fact that its midday sun, increases the "impact" of the sun. I dont think some things would work there, especially some of the "hard core" xeric plants like Russian sage and some of the others. And the third area should easily qualify as a shade area and should be good for hosta, ferns, primroses, geraniums, etc.

I also second Nancys comments about the varying degrees of shade. Just how bright or dark the shade is can make a big difference, so, for instance, shade under a tree will be different back next to the trunk than it will be out near the edges of the branches. I have a two story house that faces south, so against the back side of the house there is very little sunbutthe ends of the house get more sun in the morning and late afternoon than the middle of the house which only gets a little bit of direct sun late in the day when the sun is highest in the sky. And, as Nancy has said, dappled shade, under trees that allow intermittent light thru, is also different from "solid" shade. Since theres no way to measure the exact amount of sun or shade, as Nancy has said, the best thing is to start with the things you like the best, plant them where you think theyll do well, and if they dont, move them! (I am surprised your May Night and Heliopsis is doing well in just dappled shade, Nancy!)

Are you looking for specific recommendations for the different areas, and, if so, give us some idea of what kind of plants youre looking for. Color? Height? Blooming time? Flower or foliage type? Are there any specific plants youre thinking of that youd like an opinion on?

Since you mentioned hostas in your first post, here are pics of some of mine. These are all on the north side of the house.

Are you officially moved here now? Did you bring plants with you?

Glad to see you back at RMG,
Skybird

Nancy and Skybird, you two are awesome! I really appreciate your help getting acclimated to this new environment.

I DO have a plan! In fact, I have an appointment to go meet with a local landscaper tomorrow morning to show him my plan and look through some of their stock. My guess is that I'm going to know more about mountain plantings (thanks to you two and my CSU Extension guide!) than he will, but maybe I'll get lucky. When we get to CO, we don't want to take any time away from the mountains to drive down to the valley and pick up plants, so we're hopeful to arrive with the plants in tow.

Anyway, I'm leaning towards the following:

In the dappled shade area (the one with the least light), I'm thinking of mixing some mid-sized hostas and some heuchera (the purple-colored ones, for the mix of color). I have about 3-dozen hostas here in my shaded Iowa yard, so am very familiar with those.

Along the "back" in both the 11-5:30 sun area and the 11-2:30 sun area, I'm leaning towards lupines - I think the height will add some variety. This area also backs up to a terraced area below, so am thinking the seed droppings might get some growth down below in a little natural growth walk-through area. Earlier, I was also looking at garden phlox, but have read that, while they're pretty when they're blooming, they're not much to look at during other times and have moved away from them.

Along the "front" in both the 11-5:30 area and the 11-2:30 area, I'm looking at a mix of balloon flower, bloody cranesbill and siberian bugloss (brunnera). It's a mix of flower colors, and the plants are all nicely shaped when not in bloom (I don't like "scraggly" too much).

The last thing I'm planning on doing is adding a shepherd's hook with some hanging impatien baskets in the shady area. That'll give some height and some color to the shady area.

While nothing is going to stop a hungry deer or elk, my CSU Extension guide says that lupines, bloody cranesbills, siberian bugloss and heuchera are deer resistant. I can plant the balloon flowers and hostas closer to areas which would make them a bit more of a challenge for the area wildlife to get to. But I've seen elk climb onto a snowmound to elevate himself over our fencing to get at an aspen tree, so I'm aware that all is fair game when I'm planting in their world! Ha! (Sense of humor, sense of humor!)

Your thoughts on my plant selections?

Any thoughts on which of the balloon flower, bloody cranesbill or siberian bugloss needs the most sun? If that makes a difference between these plants, I can definitely place them so that this is addressed.

I'm planning on adding in some peat moss when I plant. It will all be set up with a daily drip irrigation system. And I am a big miracle gro fan - my oldest lives out there in the summer and will fertilize for me when I'm not there.

So there's my plan! Am curious for your thoughts, Skybird and Nancy. (I feel like young Luke Skywalker talking to Obiwan! Yes, I'm married to a trekkie!) But seriously, I am very appreciative of your advice and your willingness to help out rookies like me.

Make it a great day! I'm back to painting a bathroom today - I've just GOT to stop watching HGTV! Ha!

Rookie

Hi Rookie,

I think your Brunnera will be happier in the shady area. We always sold it as a shade perennial. I just got a small Looking Glass at the Spring Swap, and Ive planted it in almost complete shade. I recommend for sure keeping it out of hot, midday sun.

The geraniums (cranesbill) are also sold as shade plants out here, but I have heard of people growing them in the sun. When I moved into this house Im sure the perennials had been put in by a landscaper (the owners didnt know ANYTHING about plants), and there was a Johnsons Blue Geranium in front on the south side in lots of hot sun. It never did well, and was covered with mildew most of the summer. I finally decided to put it out of its misery and dug it uptried to replant it in the backyard shade, but it was too weak and didnt make it. Part of the problem was that it had been poorly planted and was in mostly clay, but it clearly did not like the heat. Johnsons Blue was never one of my favorite Geraniums, so I didnt really care when it died, but I now have three different Geraniums right against the north side of the house, and theyre doing well.

This is Geranium cantabrigiense Biokovo. It was in the planter when I got here, and Ive left it in there because it spreads all over the place when its in the ground.

This is Geranium dalmaticum Compact Rose

I also have Geranium sanguineum, but it was a tiny plant at last years Fall Swap, and it just has a few flowers this year. I still dont have a pic of it, but its doing well and should look good by next year.

Do you know that the Geraniums dont bloom for very long? In my experience, maybe a month at the most, which is far less than most descriptions claim! Some of them do get red foliage in the fall if the weather is right.

Are you planning to use the taller balloon flowers? I had one of them at my last house which didnt get enough sun, and I needed to stake it, so I recommend putting them in as much sun as possible for the best results. Also consider Sentimental Blue which is a dwarf balloon flower at only 8-10" tall. It only comes in blue, but I love it. Mine wasnt big enough last year to get a pic. but this year its looking good and Ill be taking lots of pics as soon as it starts to bloom. I show Platycodon as zone 5, but I also show it on my 8,500' altitude list, so that seems like a contradiction, but if you like it, Id certainly try it!

I agree with your decision on the garden phloxbut thats just because theyve never been a favorite of mine! They also tend to get mildew very easily. If you change your mind and decide to get some after all, be sure you put them in the sunniest place!

The plants youve picked are all good, but theyre not going to give you a lot of color if thats all you have. Are you sure you dont want to go for more variety so you have more continuous color over summer?

A favorite of mine is Aquilegia chrysantha, a very fragrant yellow columbine. It blooms for at least a couple months from late spring into summer. Mine is just starting to bloom now. Sun to part/mostly shade.

You could add some of the short spring blooming things in front of or between the other plants. Rockcress, Aubrieta or Arabis would add some nice color. Sun to part shade.
Arabis arendsii Compinkie

Aubrieta small plant that was a seedling last year!

Lamium is another good one. If you cut it back, it will rebloom 2 or 3 times. I have Pink Pewter.

There are so many more things that will give you a succession of color.

A comment on your watering plan! The drip system is good, but, you definitely dont want to water every day! You want to water DEEPLY when you do water, and as the plants become established, wait longer and longer between deep waterings. Watering this way will establish a good, deep root system as the roots look for moisture deeper in the soil when the surface dries. If you water them every day a little bit, the roots will always have moisture right where they are, and theyll never need to grow any deeperand that will make them susceptible to a variety of problems.

One more thing! When you talk to the landscaper, dont let him/her talk you into something you dont really want/like! Its your garden, and you should be planting the things you really like and want! Not what somebody else likes or wants you to plant! If they suggest something and youre considering it, come back here for some ideas on what other people think. There are a LOT more people around here than just Nancy and me!

Live long and prosperand your plants too!
Skybird

I just have a second - will go back through your post later today, Skybird. The pics are gorgeous . . . wish I could just transplant from your place to mine . . . ha!

I met with the landscaper this morning and was unimpressed. His stock for what I was wanting was minimal, and I found his advice to be confusing. Plus he was steering me towards more shrubs, and I was leaning more towards flowering perennials.

Specifically, he said that lupines weren't very hardy. But they're on the CSU Extension list as a mountain plant. Would you agree with lupines are going to be a challenge?

Gotta run take my kiddo to the doc for her physical. Will go through all this later. Happy Wednesday!

Rookie

Hi Rookie,

I second Skybird's statement on brunnera. It is a definitely shade plant. I have found the standard old brunnera to be hardier than the any of the new hybrids.

I have mixed thoughts on lupine. I grow it and I like it but it is an early bloomer. Come the end of June, it really doesn't like the heat at all and I am at 6300' so you wouldn't think that the heat would be all the bad. It gets covered in aphids. As far as it being a perennial - I'd say that it acts more like a reseeding biennial. I will get one to 2 years of blooming and then a year where the next generation is sprouting and growing.

I grow all sorts of columbines and the one that Skybird mentions is an excellent one. I grow them in sun, shade and everything in between. The deer do like the blooms though. In drought years, I don't get too many flowers mostly because the deer have been by to munch on them.

Did we already talk about how you have to check your local deer/elk populations taste bud preferences? Half the stuff on the CSU list is chomped to bits in my garden and half the stuff that they say the deer like is never touched. I think the only reliable way to do it is buy a few plants, leave them in their pots in the garden for a week and see if there is anything left. Sounds sort of strange but I would rather take the time and then not lose hundreds of dollars worth of plants in one night!

Some cranesbill's like more sun than others. I have a bunch of them that I grow in partial sun and they bloom heaviest in June but I get sporatic reblooms all summer. I don't have issues with mildew but then since I am on well for outside watering, my plants have to be seriously stressed before they get much water. They have to be drooping first thing in the morning - the droop from too much heat and sun gets them nothing.

For the full sun area, have you looked at any of Nepetas and perennial salvias? They are some of the great work horses of the CO garden and I have never had any wildlife touch them. At one point, I had a small garden in Grand Lake, CO (other side of Rocky Mountian national part from you) and the elk didn't touch them either. They both bloom for a long time and if you cut them back heavily, you get a second round of blooms.

Nancy

Hi Rookie,

I, too, have very mixed feelings on the lupines! I mentioned further up that Ive never had any luck getting them goingbut I havent given up! I got a couple small ones at the Spring Swap, and just finally got them planted in the ground yesterday. In the past Ive started them from seed a couple times, but after a while they didnt seem to be doing too well in the potspossibly because of my comings and goingsbut when I put them in the ground they did even worse, and eventually died. Id really like to have a couple, so I hope it works, and I have my fingers crossed this time! If you really like them, I think you should give them a trybut I dont think Id recommend basing a major portion of the garden on them. I was going to say that I think they might do better at higher altitudes, but apparently Nancy has some trouble too, so maybe Im wrong about that. But they are on my altitude list at 9500', and since youre even higher than she is, maybe youll have better luck with them. Youll never know if you dont try them! I do agree with Nancy that they are short lived perennials, and if you get them going youll probably either want to ensure that they reseed each year, or start some new ones in pots to set out each year. If I ever get some going enough that they produce seed, Ill probably collect seed and replant right next to the original plant(s).

I way agree with Nancy on checking out the preferred menu of your local wildlife before you put too much money into any one thing! When I was making up the deer resistant list at Paulinos, I ended it with: .....trying a variety of these plants in your own backyard is the only effective way of determining which will be most useful in your area. Her idea of sitting them out in the pots first to see what happens to them is sure a good way to avoid all the work of planting themonly to have them disappear a day or two later!

Im not at all surprised that you werent impressed with your landscaper! In the years I worked with different landscapers at Paulinos, there were very, very, very few that impressed me! Most of them knew very little, had a "menu" of 12-18 plants that they put in for every job they didand charged a whole lot to do it! What always amazed me was that they had (presumably) gone to school to study what they were charging the hefty fees for, yet they seemed to have learned very littleexcept maybe how to put their dozen plants onto a fancy looking sketch! If you enjoy gardening and have time to do the work (play?) involved, I very strongly recommend making your own decisions about what you want and where you want it! There is no right or wrong in gardening. If you like it, its right! If you put something in and it doesnt look like you envisioned it, you move it! Perennial gardening is a "perennial" sportand the game never ends!

I definitely recommend more of a variety of the columbines, as Nancy mentioned. As a matter of fact, living where you do/will, it would be almost sacrilege if you didnt have at least one Aquilegia caerulea, Rocky Mountain Columbine! I definitely want one, but just havent gotten it done yet! And there are so many different columbines that would work for you. I like the A. chrysantha so much because of the fragrance, so its always the first one I mention. It seems to bloom longer than many of the others too.

I second the suggestion for hardy salvia too! May Night is a really nice, dark purple one that blooms for a long time, and, as Nancy has said, if cut back will produce a whole second flush. If you just deadhead the dying primary blooms, itll keep producing secondary blooms that are smaller than the first, but if you cut it all the way down when the first flush starts looking ratty, itll come back and bloom as big and beautiful as the first time. That can be hard to do sometimes, of course, but the result is way worth it.

The Campanulas are something else that would work well for you out there. They come in species from under a foot to the peachleaf bellflower, Campanula persicifolia, which in my yard right now, it 3' tall and in full bloom. I have some pics in the camera, and will post one when I get around to downloading them. Actually, heres a pic of just the flowers from a couple years ago, but its more than twice as big now.

Heres a not-very-good pic of C. Glomerata Acaulis, Clustered Bellflower, about 18".

Most of the Dianthus would do well for you out there. This ones Sweet William, D. barbatuslove the fragrance! Most of the Dianthus have a spice scent.

Then theres always shasta daisies! Becky is the best tall one!

Anduhhhif you decide to come down for the Fall Swap, you CAN transplant at least some of these things from my garden to yours! Weve had someone come in from the Colorado/Kansas border for one of the swaps, and HiAlt, Bonnie, has come in from Silt (thats way on the Western Slope) for, is it two or three now, Bonnie? And we always have people come up from the Springs. You can do it too! No date is set yet, but itll probably be the first week in September, or right around then.

And remember, Ive been working on my perennial gardens for 5 years now! It takes a while with perennials, and I recommend you dont try to go for a "finished look" in the first year. You can always fill in bear areas with annuals until things fill inand you figure out which plants you like the bestand which the deer like the best!!! Part of the fun is exploring the different possibilities and trying new things.

When are you actually moving out?

Skybird

Wow - so much information to absorb!! I need to go back and rethink things with all this!

I'm definitely one who wants to have the plan laid out, then plant the whole thing and sit back and enjoy what grows. But between the two of you and my hubby, I'm pretty well convinced that I need to do a little bit of a lot of things and see what happens. I'm going to sit down with all of this and get some notes put together for when I get out there.

It's also become pretty clear to me that I need to get my nursery stock out there, probably in Loveland or Greeley. The stuff I saw locally today wasn't anywhere near what it needed to be.

We actually aren't moving out to Estes - it's our vacation home, and we try to get out there as much as we can. Our oldest lives and works out there in the summer, but we still have kiddos in school here in Iowa, so Iowa will be home for many more years. So for now, we need to package in all of the things I want to get done out there during our visits, which is why I like to pre-plan as much as I can.

Many, many thanks for all your advice, Skybird and Nancy. I'm going to take some time to digest it all, and will keep you posted.

Rookie

Skybird, once again your flowers are just gorgeous! When I lived in Coal Creek Canyon (only about 7500 ft., but in a narrow part of the canyon so very little light), I grew hostas and bleeding hearts and they did very well there. I also grew enormous snapdragons up there for some reason. They just got huge.

I've seen lupines up in the high country and they do seem to love that climate. And I will never forget one house outside Nederland that I used to drive by. They had surrounded the house with delphiniums, which also grew taller and bluer than any I've ever seen. Incredible.