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abma_gw

Security System - dos and donts

abma
13 years ago

We are meeting with our security system company soon. Any advice on things out of the ordinary to add or things that are really unnecessary. Thank you!

Comments (27)

  • emilynewhome
    13 years ago

    I don't know much about them, but my DD and SIL have had an awful lot of false alarms, several while they were out of state.
    They had to weigh the fact of previous false fire alarms with having the fire department break down their front door!
    They were told the false alarms were due to the sensitivity of the equipment!

  • arch123
    13 years ago

    WE have only been using our security system for a few months now - (because of break ins making me nervous). We have a DSC system - and it seems to be pretty simple - That's important! - according to the security guy and also the dog sitter. There is a remote for people that can't remember the code, also allows for motion in the house - loose dogs or no motion. We have not had any false alarms - I also like the panic button for either medical or crime. -easier then calling 911.

  • rockmanor
    13 years ago

    Depending on the size and layout of your home, you may want multiple keypads. We have four and would much prefer to have at least two more but it would be very difficult (& expensive) at this point to add more. Just be sure that the installer doesn't place a keypad where it can be easily viewed from outside.

    In the last two years, we've had to replace every one of the builder-installed motion sensors, which were cheap and prone to fail. I don't think there's a huge price difference between cheap equipment and good quality equipment, so go for the better quality.

    Consider if your family may be prone to accidentally set off glass-break sensors. They're better than they were 10 - 15 yrs. ago, but can still cause false alarms.

    Something we installed last year is a cell phone backup. During and after a series of severe storms last year, we lost our landline phone service but not our cell phone. Whether a crook cuts your phone cable or service is knocked out, it's reassuring to have a cell phone dialer for the monitoring service.

  • galore2112
    13 years ago

    If I were a burglar, I'd cut the phone line AND use a cell phone jammer AND the coax (internet or TV).
    Monitored security is too easily circumvented.

    Get a really LOUD siren and make your whole house flash like a disco ball in case the security system is triggered.

  • creek_side
    13 years ago

    Your average residential burglar isn't equipped to circumvent everything. If the phone line is visible, he may think to cut it, or maybe not. Ditto with the cable. Cell phone jammer, I doubt it.

    I do agree about having a loud siren, however you should have two, one visible, and one not visible mounted in someplace like a crawl space. Visible sirens or bells can be defeated with a commonly available substance, and some burglars know about it.

    Some jurisdictions have siren ordinances. You will want to find out if yours has one before installing one.

    Have a local alarm company do the install and set you up with monitoring. It should cost you less, and you should get better service that one of the nationals. Avoid the big names like ADT and Brinks (Broadview). They are marketing driven instead of service driven like the local providers.

    You'll want a professional system, not something designed for a quickie homeowner install. It should be primarilly wired, not wireless, although wireless capability is handy for adding things later. Good names for the main panel are Caddx (GE Security), DSC, and Ademco (Honeywell). Avoid anything privately labeled for the installation company like the plague. Personally, I like Caddx.

    All your exterior doors should be wired. It isn't necessary to wire all your windows if you have good motion detector coverage. Glass break detectors are somewhat unreliable, while motion detectors are very reliable, if installed correctly. Choose motion detectors over glass breaks, given the choice.

    Pet immune motion detectors are available. Visonic brand work well, especially for small pets. Ask your installer about cross zoning to provide extra security against false alarms if you have pets.

    Do not allow the alarm company to hook your smoke detectors to the alarm system under any circumstances. Do have them install some separate temperature rise fire detectors. These may lower your home owners insurance rates.

    All major manufacturers of alarm panels include the capability for the installer to lock out the homeowner. All the majors does this automatically. It forces you to use their services and is unethical, in my opinion.

    Insist that your alarm company not lock out your panel, and that you receive a copy of all programming documents and the installer code. If they refuse, find someone else.

  • david_cary
    13 years ago

    Put false phone lines out and monitor for cutting. You can do the same with cable if cable phones are common in your area.

    There are far easier ways to circumvent sercurity systems than cell phone jammers. Almost all modern door sensors use a magnet on the door with a sensor in the jamb. How hard do you think it is to find that sensor and put a magnet next to it?

    Best to stay away from known brands for the install. Don't you suspect that all ADT installs in a particular area are done pretty much the same way? Don't you think an experienced burglar would know that and would have an easy plan to circumvent?

    The other option to gain entry in sided (ie not brick or masonry) houses is to just cut through the siding and then drywall.

  • phillipeh
    13 years ago

    Have them put a keypad next to every single entry door. It's really frustrating to have to go the garage door or the master bedroom if you want to open the front door or let the dog out the back door.

  • brickeyee
    13 years ago

    "If I were a burglar, I'd cut the phone line AND use a cell phone jammer AND the coax (internet or TV)."

    And if the system was any good it would go off at the monitoring center as soon as all communication was lost.

    The internet ones work VERY well.

    The alarm panel reports status to the center every minute or so.
    Loss of status reporting IS an alarm.

  • galore2112
    13 years ago

    The internet ones I can understand but phone ones call in every minute ?!

  • brickeyee
    13 years ago

    The phone systems look for the 48 VDC that is ALWAYS present on a phone line that is off hook (not being used).
    Drop the 48 VDC by cutting the phone line and they use a cell number to notify the CO.

    Older systems used a phone line 100% of the time to stay in contact with the monitoring station.

    If you want high security it costs money.

    Infra-red (IR) motion sensors are popular now, but X-band radar ones are still available.
    They can see though walls to some extent and have opt be installed very carefully.

    We test the IR ones by gridding the floor out and trying to move without setting them off in every square foot of the grid.

  • creek_side
    13 years ago

    I believe brickeyee is discussing sophisticated commercial (data center or the like, perhaps?) security systems, while the OP is asking about home systems.

    There are some parallels, but there are significant differences in cost and efficacy.

  • david_cary
    13 years ago

    I'm with creekside - I've never heard of a residential system that monitored the line - for that I'd expect you'd need a dedicated phone line - that would be an extra expense. The vast majority of residential systems do not have such monitoring.

  • creek_side
    13 years ago

    David, residential monitoring over the Internet is available, and systems can be configured for line cuts. You just have consider all factors, including the reliability of your Internet and/or POTS providers, versus the potential liability for false call outs.

    One of the reasons for going with a local alarm company versus the residence oriented nationals is the depth of knowledge of their staff. The nationals employ salesmen. The locals generally employ security system professionals.

    The best way is put your own system in and contract directly for monitoring with somebody like AlarmRelay or NextAlarm. It isn't difficult for someone with moderate mechanical and electrical skills, plus you get to do it the way you want while saving money in the process.

    Here is a link that might be useful: AlarmRelay

  • david_cary
    13 years ago

    ok Creekside - no disagreement. Can you agree that the "vast majority" of residential systems do not have a configuration for line cuts?

    Sure monitoring over internet is available - so is a private security guard. Obviously no comparison on cost but the "vast majority" are phone line monitored. I have an ELK system (very high end with many options) and I don't think I even have the option of internet monitoring. Maybe I do and can't think of it now. But I survive with my phone line monitoring with my hidden lines and line cut monitors. I guarantee that is cheaper than internet monitoring. What the heck do you do when the cable modem needs to be reset?

  • creek_side
    13 years ago

    I don't know about the majority, since I have never used anyone like ADT or Broadview myself. However, I can tell you that my panels can be configured to sound a local alarm for a line cut.

    Internet monitoring is available for $17.95 a month, the same thing I pay for telephone line monitoring. It is even less if you pay by the year.

  • david_cary
    13 years ago

    Ok - how much did your system costs that can monitor online? It is a different level of sophistication from a simple phone line system that most people would install. Mine has a internet module that was $200 extra. A quick look on one site had a $350 system with web based monitoring but only 6 inputs and a simple phone based system is $50.

    So do you get a call everytime the internet goes down? Is that ever in the middle of the night when servers get maintenance? I still don't see the advantage other that line cut issues which are easy enough to protect against.

    Sorry - but I can't imagine relying on the internet for security. If there was a huge advantage, I could see it, but I don't.

  • creek_side
    13 years ago

    I don't have Internet monitoring, but it is available for the same price as what I pay for telephone monitoring, $17.95 per month.

    The Internet monitoring system that I am familiar with requires a contact ID reporting system, which is an industry standard. It will work with most alarm systems, including Elk. The Internet adapter costs $115 and includes three months monitoring, so the net cost is around $80-$90 depending on how you choose to be billed.

    Again, I don't have this system at the moment. Also, while I am aware of the product and service, I have not looked into it in depth at this time. I am waiting to get confirmed, reliable wireless Internet access up and running first.

    The Elk Internet module is not comparable to the device I am talking about. The Elk module is designed for multiple tasks and includes a web server. The NextAlarm device is a contact ID reporting interface that uses the Internet as a transmission medium. It does provide for user dial-in via the a special phone number, if the customer's alarm panel has that feature. It also monitors the path to the customer's premises. If it fails, the customer is immediately notified via text message.

    The device is manufactured by LinkSys

    Here is a link that might be useful:

  • brickeyee
    13 years ago

    "I believe brickeyee is discussing sophisticated commercial (data center or the like, perhaps?) security systems, while the OP is asking about home systems. "

    The monitoring charges go up, but not as significantly as you would think.

    I have both installed and specified everything from home systems to systems used to guard classified locations.
    Many of these have NO local sounder on the alarm system.
    We want to catch the idiots, not scare them away.

    A local only alarm system is hardly worth the noise it produces.

    It might get a 911 call when it fails to shut off after a while, but most if the time the owner has set the thing off so many times the neighbors learn to just ignore the alarm and wait for 'Old Bill to shut off his alarm again' often at 2:00 AM.

    Most police departments no longer allow direct connections to them since there are so many false alarms.

  • creek_side
    13 years ago

    It might get a 911 call when it fails to shut off after a while, but most if the time the owner has set the thing off so many times the neighbors learn to just ignore the alarm and wait for 'Old Bill to shut off his alarm again' often at 2:00 AM.

    It's a little different out in the country, especially when you have only a few neighbors. We look out for each other. Someone's security alarm going off will definitely get a neighbor to respond.

    While you may want to catch the beggars, I would prefer to scare them off. Without a local alarm, they would have plenty of time to do their worst before LE could get here after being notified by the monitoring center.

    The loud alarm tells the bad guys that LE has been notified, and one or more heeled neighbors will be on their way in short order. They aren't going to hang around.

  • galore2112
    13 years ago

    "We want to catch the idiots, not scare them away."

    Actually, I'd rather scare them away than catch them.

    And a loud (!), obnoxious siren together with flashing lights will distract even the coolest burglar and make him/her take a hike...

  • dixiedoodle
    13 years ago

    I haven't read all of the responses in great detail, so forgive me if this isn't pertinent. But, we have a home security system by Honeywell that includes glassbreak sensors, infrared motion sensors that cover the entire house (even second floor), multiple control panels (both audio and video capable), and wireless door alarms. The system is monitored through VoIP as we do not have a telephone line for our house. We use Vonage for our home phone. The monitoring service was $200 for the year. It does, indeed, send a signal to the monitoring station every minute. And, it has, indeed, been a true PITA! We live in the country and our cable service is fine for cable television but awful for internet service. It seems as if each time the wind blows, the service "skips." If we had to do it over again, we'd probably just put in the phone line and have either VoIP or cellphone backup for the security system.
    We really like the Honeywell system though...we pieced it together with the help of a commercial installer that freelances on the weekends. I interviewed both Brinks and ADT...way too much focus on sales rather than service, IMO.

  • emknc
    13 years ago

    Do: utilize a loyal terrier/retriever mix who knows when (and at what) to bark, plus a Remington 870 Express with 7 rounds of #1 buckshot in the pipe.

    Don't: buy or build in a location where you actually require "security" beyond deadbolts, window locks, appropriate exterior lighting, common sense and routine alertness.

    Do: pay the premiums on your homeowner's insurance policy when they're due.

    Don't: think anything other than a life is irreplaceable; it's not. And think before you employ Do #1 - dialing 911 is generally your best option.

  • gopintos
    13 years ago

    Before I thought to even ask or research about a security system on the forum, we already signed a contract with ADT. I was pretty happy because it was half the price of the first quote, and we are 2 miles from small town, and 20 miles for next largest town, so just never thought to check on a more local outfit.

    Okay so anyways, we just finished up our install the other day. So we are still on the learning cycle, which means we are not "live" with any alarms calling anyone unless it is fire.

    Okay so yesterday morning, my DH forgets and opens the door. So the count down begins. He keeps punching in the code, and telling it to Stay, like it was the dog. I guess he was thinking that since he was Staying, that should shut it off.

    Well it didn't. It was engaged so it needed to be code, then OFF.

    So the countdown has begun with the initial inside alarm, and it is talking to you, so everyone in the house hears it. I kept thinking, okay he is a highly intelligent fella, it is just a matter of time before he shuts it off. I guess everyone else in the house was thinking the same thing, but eventually I got up and the teenager in the house had also already begun his crawl out of bed and he turns it off, but not before the BIG siren goes off outside.

    Okay so anyways, this was at 6:40 yesterday morning. We don't have real close neighbors breathing down our neck, but they are plenty close to hear this blarring alarm going off inside and outside at 6:40 a.m. on a Saturday morning.

    So THIS morning, at 6:40 in the morning, guess who was out mowing his yard? Coincendence? Maybe lol, but I think not. haha

    We wouldn't be able to hear his mowing too awfully much anyways if we were still in bed, we are insulated pretty well, but I had already been up with the horses, but anyways, we got a kick out of it :-)

  • brickeyee
    13 years ago

    "Sorry - but I can't imagine relying on the internet for security. If there was a huge advantage, I could see it, but I don't."

    Is is pretty much required for all security systems for DOD and the various three letter agencies.

    It works very well for these and also for home systems.

    Any service provider that takes their system down for regular maintenance should be fired anyway.
    It is one thing if something fails, it is another to not have a hot spare operating before you take equipment off-line.

    Really high security facilities have a backup system to the internet system, often a phone line or cell phone.

  • jolynna
    13 years ago

    For those just starting the building process, DON'T give the security a big down payment before they have done any work. Looks like the company that was supposed to install our system spent our initial payment on something else and now can't do the job. We are meeting with our lawyer next week to file a lawsuit...which means more money gone we weren't counting on spending.

    I'm sick. Check your security company out carefully. And even if they have good references if they ask for several $K up front be suspicious. Our company had good references but evidently in a tough economy--our community is very depressed now--their situation changed.

  • worthy
    13 years ago

    I've never heard of a residential system that monitored the line

    It's commonly used here instead of cell backup in bad cell reception areas.

    My security service provider for 20 years in a rare moment admitted that the main value of the security system is to document the break-in. By the time the private guards or police respond, the intruder is normally long gone.

    Builders here rarely alarm the second floor openings or the garage. I do both.

    The "sophistication" of local burglars is in all but rare cases limited to the size of their work boots--used to kick in the front door or basement glass.

    Several gated homes in our former neighbourhood had 24-hour guard services and private guards. A little beyond my budget!

  • worthy
    13 years ago

    Of course, even billionaires can't save themselves if the criminal is determined or the "protector" demented. One of billionaire banker/philanthropist Edmond Safra's bodyguards started a fire so he could put it out and impress Safra. He lost control of the fire and the banker couldn't break out of his fortress home, nor the other bodyguards break-in before it was too late.