If your're really looking for that neat-o totally hidden DW look you see in the magazines - forget g KitchenAid and deepening the cabinet run. It will never look like you vision.

Get the Miele or Bosch or Asko and don't look back.

Re the plastics. They are not all totally wet and you can place them anywhere no just the top rack. Solo cups dry fine in mieles, so do kid's super hero plates. What wont dry are thing like sippy cup lids and the like that have deep pockets or channels that collect pools of water. I've seen those come out wet in a heated dry machine too!

Unless you've just started the mommy track, sippy cups will be gone in a year or two anyway.

We are ditching the sippy cups and plastic cups but still love and use daily our Tervis tumblers and tupperware :). Why won't it look like I envision if we pull out the counter top so it is deep enough so the panel on the front lines up with the rest of the cabinets?

The other problem is that I need two and (a) they are expensive and (b) what if I hate them :)

athensmomsof3: Antss is correct if you want panel ready dishwasher the kitchenaid wont be flushed and your kitchen contractor would have to have the cabinet depth adjusted so the panel ready dishwasher will be flushed with other cabinets.

Also another thing to know is that the KUDE60xx series has a vent on top left of the door so you maynot be able to install it even if you increase the depth of the cabinet.

We personally went with the KA Kude60hx (non panel ready, SS w ultra handle) dishwasher and now we are just waiting for kitchen to complete to take delivery and see how it works out.

jmith - that was exactly the info I needed. We were planning on adjusting the cabinet depth but the vent presents another issue that we need to see if we can address.

I have seen the paneled kitchenaid not flush. Logically, it seems that if you do deeper cabinets or standard cabinets pulled away from the wall you can make it totally flush. The vent is a different matter (although I don't understand why this isn't an issue if you put a panel on the dishwasher - do the panel ready dishwashers have vents that stick out of the cabinet?)

I am not necessarily opposed to a SS dishwasher but we will have two plus perhaps a 48" SZ in the same run, and a ss rangetop and ss double ovens in the other part of the L. That is too much stainless for me! If we paneled the dishwashers that would help!

Thanks again!

athensmomof3: We have too much SS in our new kitchen as well... wall ovens, range top, dw and the fridge.

We were going with panel ready but i found with KA models the panel ready would not only cost more (dw is same cost as non panel ready + cost of cabinet faux door) but also that it will not be flushed if we flush it we would have to do something with the vent for the DW.

The vent is on the door itself on the top left side of the door frame. Our kitchen contractor said he can protect the cabinets but we decided to ditch something that may or may not cause problems with the flush mounting.

Also KA/Whirlpool sells a kit that can close the vent for 140usd or something like that. There is another thread here about the KUDE60 and someone who was having issues with the vent.

I'll make another plug for the Bosch SHV58E13UC or SHV68E13UC (I use the SS version - SHX68E15UC). Both are part of the 800 Plus series. The SHV58 usually sells for under $1200. Sometimes you can buy it for under $1000 after rebate.

I have noticed that plastic items in the glass rack tend to stay put - much better than other dishwashers I've used or owned. I'm guessing this is due to the variable spray pressure feature found in the 800 Plus Series. This feature has a lower spray pressure in the upper racks.

I personally recommend the SHV58/SHX58 to every customer. If someone doesn't like manual cleaning a filter, then I'll recommend a KitchenAid non-EQ model (the EQ series has a European style filter that needs to be cleaned manually).

Also, if you have hardwood flooring, the Bosch, Asko and Miele all have a protective base that will catch most water leaks and shut the internal pump off when the water level gets high enough. The unit will go into a fault setting prompting you to call for service. The KithenAid and most American units are completely open underneath and have no such protection.

You can boost the final rinse temp through a programming sequence that helps dry the plastic items better.

I love the 3rd rack for silverware and utensils.

I like the built-in water softener as it helps with cleaning and preventing mineral build-up. My glasses are always sparkling.

It also shines a red LED light on the floor when the cycle is running and shuts off when the cycle is done (InfoLight)

And it has about 8 more plate/bowl positions in the lower rack versus the KitchenAid if you remove the silverware basket which I hardly use because of the 3rd rack.

Here is a link that might be useful: My company's Bosch SHV58E13UC web-page