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panchoandlefty_gw

Venting: highest CFM for 9' duct, internal blower)

panchoandlefty
14 years ago

My sales guy sold me a 48" Vent A Hood Pro Island Liner. My carpenter is building a custom wood hood for it.

It arrived yesterday. All the installers were talking about what sixze duct to use since it wanted 12" but in my ceiling, because of some existig copper pipe, I only have room for 9' duct, tops.

The acted like this was no big deal. They use smaller than required duct all the time, blah, blah... however, from GW I knoew this would be a problem. Not only would I not get the 1200+ CFM i PAID FOR, it would be noisy as the motor worked over-hard to push air through a restricted space,

I called VAH who verified this thought. They recommended I back down to the "regular" island model, with 550 CFM (8" duct)

If I have to go back to the drawing board ANYWAY, I am curious if anuyone, off hand, has a high CFM internal blower with 8-9" duct correctly installed, per manufacturers specs.

From this experience, I am willing to guess that many of you who THOUGHT you bought effective, quiet systems, but have found them loud and unruly may have more issues with your ducts than with the appliance.

Neither my salesman, nor the installers would have mentioned to me that they were modifing the system to fit the smaller pipe. In fact, not only were they discussing using smaller pipe, they were considering using flexible duct, which in aslo a VAH no-no.

If I hadn't looked it up myself, after install, I would probably have just assumed that, indeed, VAH made a loud vent.

Just something to consider.

Any thoughts on high CFM with 8-9" duct? Must have a internal blower. Island install.

I know, I'm, calling Modern Aire as soon as the West Coast wakes up. Other ideas?

Comments (7)

  • sfjeff
    14 years ago

    Can you run two, 8 ducts? Some hoods, such as the Prestige 1200CFM pack, have two 6 outlets that are generally transitioned into a single 10 duct. Depending on the obstruction you need to get around, it might be possible to transition to two, 7 or 8 ducts "immediately" and then put a two-into-one transition past it, or have two vent caps.

    There are huge differences between a 10 duct and an 8 duct -- just looking at cross-sectional area the 8 duct is 64% of the 10 duct. It is even a little worse than that because of how air moves through a duct.

    (sorry no inch marks, it wouldn't post otherwise)

  • panchoandlefty
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    The available space in the ceiling is 9" X 11"

    It WOULD be 11" x 11" but there is a copper pipe crossing the space about 2" from the ceiling (leaving 9" above it)

    Also, when we got ready to exit the exit the exterior, we found a header. Structural engineer recommended putting a 2x12 between the joists to secure them against lateral movement. Therefore, only 9" height at exit point as well.

    Modern Aire says their 1200 CFM is supposed to go with a 10" but would be OK with a 9" duct. Price, shipped, is the same as the VAH. That is the leading option.

  • jahrms
    14 years ago

    We recently installed a Zephyr AK8300ASX hood with 1000 CFM internal blower and it uses an 8" duct. It works great over our 42" Viking range. It also comes with this cool little remote control with a magnet on the back so we put on our fridge and can control the hood without having to reach up and change the speeds.

  • clinresga
    14 years ago

    Stephanie: 12'' duct is very unusual in residential units. All units I've seen have spec'd 10'' duct as a rule.

    One option to discuss with your HVAC contractor would be to use rectangular duct for the constricted area. It's a bit more constrictive than round duct, but, for example, a 18'' x 4'' rectangular duct will squeeze through small spaces, and then you can run 10'' duct on either side of that. While it will act as a bottleneck, its effects should be modest, and certainly superior to using 8'' or 9'' duct throughout.

    In either case, you are best off with a better quality internal blower. The one that MA uses is designed to compensate for back pressure of long duct runs and will maintain flow rates even through rather high resistance. May be a bit noisier than 10'' duct but remember that with the MA you'll have an infinitely variable speed control and you'll find that you run at far below full speed most of the time anyway.

    I have little doubt the MA with 1200 cfm internal blower will outperform the VAH--particularly if they are quoting their mysterious "equivalent cfm" which means the actual cfm rating would be only 800 cfm to start.

    PS: sfjeff: two single quotes ' ' typed in succcession will be "seen" by GW as double quotes, for the "inch" sign.

  • jackals
    14 years ago

    Consider using an externally mounted blower system as distinct from internal - generally, dependant on the lenght and number of bends in a duct run, sucking is more efficient than blowing - if the external motor has to work that bit harder due to a smaller than ideal duct size it will be outside and the mechanical noise wont be as bad as inside. Downside is external mounts are more money. Also ensure that you use baffle style filters to further assist the smooth air flow and up in the 1000 cfm range less airflow noise through baffles than mesh filters.
    Other option, as suggested by sfjeff, is to run two ducts - Modern Aire can custom the exhaust on the hood to feed two ducts with custom collars.

  • kaseki
    14 years ago

    We should be careful to distinguish noise from working hard. A blocked blower does no work, other than spinning itself and generating some local turbulence, so the motor is not working very hard. It might be noisy, however, due to the turbulence around the blades.

    While a large flow rate is desirable, particularly for the larger hood sizes, the duct versus fan sizing should be matched so that the velocity of the air in the duct (at maximum flow) is in the 1000 ft/min to 2000 ft/min range.

    A 1200 cfm (zero static pressure rating) blower using a 10 inch duct, with hood, exit transition, and other stuff causing pressure drops is unlikely to actually move more than about 800 cfm unless the ducting length is very short.

    For example, 800 cfm / 1600 fpm = 0.5 square feet or 72 sq inches. This is the area of a 9.6 inch duct. A 9-inch duct would be a tad on the low side for the selected velocity, but a 9 x 11 duct should be fine. Ignoring its slightly greater surface area and hence loss, the rectangular duct would provide more area than a 10-inch round duct (78.5 sq in).

    kas

  • panchoandlefty
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    My installation has a lot of restrictions.

    I can't do an external blower. My house is quite contemporary. The duct emerges on an exterior wall with over 40 casement windows. Even the smaller external units are too obtrusive. The duct runs between 2 floors with no ceiling access from above. No attic or roof access.

    Thanks for the techie info. I appreciate it.