I forgot to clarify a couple more things: the narrow room behind the kitchen is a walk-in pantry. The little room of the foyer is a powder room. The front porch is not going to be off-center. It just didn't get moved over to the right spot in the version of the plans I have.

Also, in case it matters in your thoughts, we are a family of four, two little boys ages 4 and 2, with more kids in our future. We have large families, lots of friends, and love to entertain casually. My husband farms, and the house will be located on a farm.

Damn..I wrote a long message and was disconnected and lost it. So here goes again... Ok your door to garage is in corner..Move it you can get cabinet or bench on front wall. The porch if it goes all the way across seems shallow should be 7-8 feet if you want to sit out on it. The front door seems a bit close to steps and you will walk that every day possibly add a foot or so of depth if possible. You buy building materials in 2 feet lengths so keep in mind you will throw away waste if you dont use those lengths most times. The doors to play room could swing in to preserve wall space in family room for furniture or pictures. The pantry for a growing family on a farm seems very narrow and tight. in my opinion. I am from large family as well and am used to 35-50 on most holidays. The big problem I see on this floor is the kitchen being so far away from the garage when bringing in groceries and then you walk into the mudroom and directly into the family room breaking up furniture layouts, interupting flow and tv watching etc and if carpet dragging in lots of dirt from boys and animals. Could you move the kitchen to that end and switch the family room to other end? then you are not walking in front door and walking into kitchen as well.. Im assuming there will be a porch /deck on back now or in future. I wouldnt do anything less than 12feet deep and 14 is better. I have a covered 14 ft porch shown on Nov how is your home build going post in this forum for reference.

Now the lower level.. The master closets are tiny and not near enough for most people. Consider using the space between them and the door to bedroom for deeper closets. The space is kinda useless otherwise. You could delete 2 doors and move the door to the hallway to bath and get wallspace back in bedroom. The bathroom is tough since its not well defined. It seems small but workable. Dont forget linen cabinets. Bedroom 1 if you move the door to left you can put bed on right wall and also not look into door when you go down the stairs. Bedroom 3 if you slide door over you can stretch the closet 4-5 feet. Now this is my personal opinion but I hate the hallway to the outside. and the future bedroom/ bath/ kitchenette could move to where your family room is since they are guests and you use the space daily. This allows the family room to face the back wall and get windows in it and encompass the hall in the room and get light /views out. I dont know all your ideas and needs so I might be off base but I usually find clients get tunnel vision and cant get past the plans they are working on unless they are shown some options. Its been worked on for so long and my suggestions may feel like harsh criticism but they are not meant to be. Dont be afraid to loosen up and try some options to see if you can improve on the design. Houses are our largest investment and its tough to change after you start. Hindsight is always 20/20 as they say. Hope this helps. Good luck

BigKahuna,

Thanks for all your suggestions! They didn't come off as harsh at all. I appreciate feedback.

Porch--I definitely want to widen it to 8 feet instead of the current 6. It is important to me that it is a somewhat useable space.

Front door/stairs--not sure how to add a foot there, unless we maybe turn the stairs going down into the lower level rec room. Something to think about! I would love another foot there. It would feel much more gracious. I guess I am operating under an impression that I am not sure how I got, which is that to go just a smidge longer than the current 32' for trusses messes things up. I can't say what or who gave me that idea?

Pantry--It's 4.5 feet wide right now, so with 12" shelves on one long wall it will be 3.5' wide. Or 3' if I put in a 6" can shelf on part of the other wall. A little narrow perhaps, but workable for me. I will consider taking another foot from the kitchen or great room. However, we'll also have some additional shelving and a giant freezer downstairs in the laundry/utility room.

Carrying in groceries issue--we've definitely discussed this one. Because of how the house will be situated, and our plans for a future deck/screened porch off the kitchen, we want to keep it as is. We'll suffer carrying the bags across the great room (which will, realistically, have an invisible "hallway" along that side, since the playroom doors are there, etc. But with the width and length of the room (19' x 25') I think that is doable with a floating furniture arrangement. Dirt getting tracked in would be a problem either way with boys, though the mudroom is *supposed* to be a place to wash up. It will have a sink, a second washer/dryer set, cubbies, bench, etc. The floor is wood, so at least carpeting is not an issue.

Master bedroom closts--we've struggled with that area of the design. I might try to redraw it yet again, keeping your suggestions in mind. Thank you.

Switching the guest suite and the rec room--This is a great idea in theory, but not for our family specifically. The intended purpose (for now) of the rec room is really mostly for the kids to have a place to horse around and play, and I just don't want to them to be closed off at the other end of the house where I can't see/hear/monitor them very easily. They are boys and they sure act like boys!They're not the type I can trust to play quietly and sweetly for long. We're purposely leaving the stairway as open-air as possible so that we can hear what is going on downstairs from upstairs and vice versa. Also, DH has biiiiig plans for the future to try to further enclose that windowless rec room area for an in-home theater.

I welcome any further comments or suggestions!

I noticed that the plans do not blow up to be a very viewable size, now that they've uploaded to Photobucket!

Here is a link that might be useful: Lower Level

And the other one, also larger:

Here is a link that might be useful: Main Level

Okay, I am obviously up too late, I posted the same link twice. Here is the Lower Level:

Here is a link that might be useful: Lower Level

I also forgot to mention.. Had you considered a side load garage ? Make the house feel biggger leaves windows on fron and open doors are less obvious and on display. The door from the deck to the garage if it goes all the way across will need steps down into garage. Be sure you have enough room for them. This depends on how far above grade your first floor is. As for house depth..If you are at 32'-6" you may as well be at 34'-0 in my opinion. Also if you use block the block dimensions of 8" is a good unit to use.

Well like I said everyone has their reasons but give them all some thought. Keep in mind kids are not young forever and keeping them too close can be a a problem too. I just hate not seeing walkout space taken full advantage of for all the spaces. I understand your concerns though. Just wouldnt be my choice. So do you have the exterior elevations worked out ?

We have actually talked about turning the garage, so it is interesting that you say that. It's definitely something we're considering doing.

As far as the deck, we're actually planning a side deck, and not a back deck. They're not shown, but there will be french doors off of the living room in addition to the kitchen door. So no garage steps to worry about. The main reason for the side deck is to avoid shading the bedroom windows below. We live in Minnesota, so we want to make sure there is enough light downstairs in all seasons.

We are at 32', not 32'6", so it would definitely be an extra expense to widen the house another 2 feet, but I will talk with our GC and designer about possibly widening just the entry way area by a couple feet. Of course, this adds corners, but it might be worth it.

I will continue to think about the rec room/guest room thing. Thanks. I don't want to build with a myopic view of things.

Oh dear. If I'm so good with floor plans why isn't mine right yet?! :)

I would encourage you to firm up your plans and be specific before breaking ground. If you go in with the mindset that you are going to change things as you go, I have a hunch while-we're-at-it and might-as-well will devastate your budget. Having solid plans will also let you bargain hunt throughout the process and pick up cheap things secure int he knowledge they are something you'll actually need.

Overall, I am concerned that this plan doesn't really reflect what a large family might need on a farm. I don't see space for a large chest freezer, or a utility shower by the garage (or whichever door would be the main entrance from working outside.) The workshop seems very inadequate unless there's another freestanding workshop. You don't have good cross-ventilation in the house, so it may get stuffy.

You've got a playroom and closet on the ground that can be used as a bedroom in the event someone gets injured or you have an aging relative visiting, but I think you also at least need a shower on the ground floor. Even if it's in the garage! I do think you need one more bathroom. Many families get by without more than one or two, but they aren't building a custom home.

The stairs feature prominently in the entrance, but when guests come in the front door, it doesn't lead to areas you usually want them to go. I think the stairs should be accessible from the family areas.

If you widen the pantry by at least another 6", you'll have room for shelves on each side which will dramatically increase your linear wall storage capacity for not much more square footage.

I agree with bigkahuna about the closet space, especially in the master. At a minimum you could have closet storage on the left and using the space under the stairs, with the bath on the right.

If you plan on having more kids, a small room adjacent to the master will help in the early years and can be used as a sitting room later.

Having said all the bad stuff...

To make room for the extra closets and stuff downstairs, you could make those bedrooms an smidgen smaller and the master really doesn't need to be that long. If you are planning on encouraging the country lifestyle where life is lived outside, small bedrooms won't be an issue for the kids. I think your laundry/utility room might be a little larger than it needs to be, too. You could steal a foot or two in width and then would have room for two bathrooms.

I don't understand the pocket door in the mudroom. It's the only pocket door in the house, so it seems out of place.

If you leave the stairs where they are, a single front door plus sidelights would give you a little more breathing room in the front foyer.

The elevation looks like it might be a little odd. I think I would set the columns to flank the door. Right now the front of the house, the door and the columns are all on different spacing and I think it will look disordered instead of deliberate.

For your virtual hallway, you could consider a strip of stone or tile. It would help absorb some of the damage from dirty boots and such in a way that a wood floor would not.

Have you considered moving the kitchen to the center? You could still have it open to either side, but this would leave room for a dining table on one side and the family area on the other. For large gatherings, it's nice to have different spaces. Without them, everyone ends up sitting in the circle in the same large room while grandpa can't hear what people are saying on the other side and the kids are totally uncomfortable. You you'll have 3 distinct areas (dining, LR, GR) with the kitchen in the heart of things. If you build that dining area more like a large eat-in kitchen, you could still have the deck off to the side and the same feel.

Okay, I'll shut up now.

alabama nicole,

You have a lot of fantastic points, and a few that I don't like, haha ;) Thanks for responding! Offhand, I will just say that the ONLY aspect up for discussion is the exact placement (to the inch) of the windows and doors, because we want to stand in the space and decide. Also, the front porch dealie will be centered, as I mentioned in a prior post.

I have so many things I want to respond to, and you've given me a lot of ideas, but it will have to wait. We're going out of town for the day but I will respond later.

Did you draw this yourself? The main floor is awkward in that the room placement does not flow well. The living room attached to the kithen is odd and the kitchen layout needs some review. Not sure what the two rooms are on the left of the kitchen but the playroom is also in a strange place. keep at it but I would not build this yet as you will have a re-sale problem down the road. You should also re-think a main floor master for future market ability.

Still working on responses to alabamanicole, but bellamay, I think a kitchen/informal dining/great room open concept is very, very common, not awkward. I am confused as to why you would think so. Maybe "basic" or "unimaginative", but not awkward. 90% of mass marketed builder homes have a similar concept to that. The kitchen layout is not finalized at all as we aren't to the point of meeting with a designer, but it, too, I feel, is a pretty basic L-formation-with-island layout, with a walk-up kitchen desk on the opposite side. I think a playroom off of the main family room makes sense--not sure where else one might put it? I suppose off of the kitchen? Somewhere central, though.

Not sure what you are referring to when you mention the two rooms on the left of the kitchen?

There is potential for a main floor master in the future, but we'd need to remodel the large mudroom to incorporate a 3/4 bath en suite, a possibility we've planned for in the current design. We're keeping the main floor with 36" doors for universal design reasons, just in case.

In terms of resale, this is on a century family farm. It will be on one of three homesteads belonging to the farm. We're unconcerned about resale in any way. :)

Thanks for your concern.

I am tired and can not figure this out - this is my disclaimer in case my comment sounds harsh.

I will double check in the morning, when I have access to a different pc and can see your plans better. I did not see the elevations. Where are them?

You said that this is "final", that you have a designer.
I would not consider these plans preliminary. I am lost, the rooms are not tagged, bathrooms are not designed, etc. With a designer involved I'd expect a better use of the space. Looking at this in perspective, you are investing in a geothermal system and you have tiny closets and masterbath.

I'd place more windows in the lower level so it does not feel like a basement. You are going to have a "guest suite" with no window. Looks like you are a good host, your guests will hate that room and it will be a code violation..

Are you planning to have a concrete cap at the porch? Looks like part of the rec room is under the porch? you have an 8' basement, and you will have a beam.
I suggest to build a 9' H. basement. On the other hand, it looks like the garage office will be over the basement which is ok but that space in the garage (maybe a shop?) is it also over the basement? another concrete cap or wood joists? Why they do not show the garage foundation in the lower level plan?

I have more comments but I will continue in the morning.

"Overall, I am concerned that this plan doesn't really reflect what a large family might need on a farm. I don't see space for a large chest freezer, or a utility shower by the garage (or whichever door would be the main entrance from working outside.) The workshop seems very inadequate unless there's another freestanding workshop. You don't have good cross-ventilation in the house, so it may get stuffy."

Okay, please talk to me about what would be needed for better cross-ventilation! I don't want a stuffy house. As far as a chest freezer, that would go either in the mudroom upstairs, or, more likely, in the downstairs laundry/utility room. Utility shower--DH and I originally had a shower off of the mudroom, and actually removed it. Dh really feels he does not need it. He does get dusty at times, and his boots can get muddy depending on the season, but those get left outside. Never have I known him to come home covered in mud or anything like that. If he did need to do a little washing up before going downstairs, he can do so in the sink. I guess I am just trusting his judgment on that one. We haven't had a utility shower up until this point and he says he hasn't missed it. He says he would like to shower and dress in one place--in the master suite. Lastly, workshop--that little area is just for bikes, bats, balls, etc. The farm has 19 outbuildings total and they will be building a new shop in the next 2-4 years, so workshop space is not a concern, hee hee!

"You've got a playroom and closet on the ground that can be used as a bedroom in the event someone gets injured or you have an aging relative visiting, but I think you also at least need a shower on the ground floor. Even if it's in the garage! I do think you need one more bathroom. Many families get by without more than one or two, but they aren't building a custom home."

Point definitely taken. We've planned that if needed, we will remodel the large mudroom to include a 3/4 attached bathroom, if we have need to turn that room into a bedroom one day. I kind of addressed the utility shower thing above, but I, too, was concerned about the lack of a second "family bath" downstairs. When we decided to excavate a full basement beneath the garage office and include a guest suite, that alleviated my fears, since it will include a full bath that can be used by our kids anytime a guest is not in the house. When we have guests, I am sure we'll manage for a short period of time with two full baths. Also, since my husband is self-employed and we plan to homeschool our kids through high school, we can avoid some of the early-morning bathroom bottleneck that occurs with families who are trying to leave out the door at the same time daily.

"The stairs feature prominently in the entrance, but when guests come in the front door, it doesn't lead to areas you usually want them to go. I think the stairs should be accessible from the family areas."

Do you have a suggestion of where you might locate the stairs if you were in our shoes? Maybe you'd just be tossing the plan altogether. Sometimes I feel like doing just that!!! I do think we're going to be flipping the entry closet with the powder room, and then scooting over the double door all the way, so that you open the door into the hallway instead of the stairs. Do you think that will help?

"If you widen the pantry by at least another 6", you'll have room for shelves on each side which will dramatically increase your linear wall storage capacity for not much more square footage."

I LOVE this idea! I am going to do ask for that to be changed. I can easily give up 6" of great room space without being bothered.

"I agree with bigkahuna about the closet space, especially in the master. At a minimum you could have closet storage on the left and using the space under the stairs, with the bath on the right."

On our little car trip today I brought some graph paper and played around a little. I couldn't come up with anything I really loved! I am not married to the master bedroom floorplan right now at ALL, but I think I will need some direction in how to change it! If anyone wants to play with a plan, go for it! Otherwise I guess I will talk with our designer this week and see if he can suggest something better.

"If you plan on having more kids, a small room adjacent to the master will help in the early years and can be used as a sitting room later."

We actually co-sleep until around a year old, so for our family we won't need this. I love the idea in theory, though!

"Having said all the bad stuff...

To make room for the extra closets and stuff downstairs, you could make those bedrooms an smidgen smaller and the master really doesn't need to be that long. If you are planning on encouraging the country lifestyle where life is lived outside, small bedrooms won't be an issue for the kids. I think your laundry/utility room might be a little larger than it needs to be, too. You could steal a foot or two in width and then would have room for two bathrooms."

Can you clarify a little more on what you would suggest doing to increase closet space? We may end up doubling some kids up in bedrooms, so I don't want to go too small, but you can never have too much closet space.

"I don't understand the pocket door in the mudroom. It's the only pocket door in the house, so it seems out of place."

I am not in love with it myself. I think I'll request for it to be changed to a normal door. The pocket design is actually a remnant from a previous mudroom plan, and kind of just got left in there for no reason.

"If you leave the stairs where they are, a single front door plus sidelights would give you a little more breathing room in the front foyer."

If we scoot the double doors over all the way to the left wall, I think this will be eliminated or at least helped. Additionally, DH and I talked about it, and we'd like to talk to our GC about what it would require cost-wise for us to push out the entry a couple feet. It's already excavated underneath, so there will be trusses there anyway--why not, right? So we'll see what he says on that one.

"The elevation looks like it might be a little odd. I think I would set the columns to flank the door. Right now the front of the house, the door and the columns are all on different spacing and I think it will look disordered instead of deliberate."

Yep, that is just a boo-boo in the version of the plans I have. It will be centered.

"For your virtual hallway, you could consider a strip of stone or tile. It would help absorb some of the damage from dirty boots and such in a way that a wood floor would not."

You are so right, but at the same time, we are planning on all hardwoods, so it might look awkward to have one floating strip of tile, don't you think? Also, we are a sockfoot family when indoors, so anyone who walks into the house with dirty shoes will incur mama's wrath!!! :)

"Have you considered moving the kitchen to the center? You could still have it open to either side, but this would leave room for a dining table on one side and the family area on the other. For large gatherings, it's nice to have different spaces. Without them, everyone ends up sitting in the circle in the same large room while grandpa can't hear what people are saying on the other side and the kids are totally uncomfortable. You you'll have 3 distinct areas (dining, LR, GR) with the kitchen in the heart of things. If you build that dining area more like a large eat-in kitchen, you could still have the deck off to the side and the same feel."

I really LOVE this idea in theory. Help me out a bit. How would you design the kitchen? It seems like it would just have one wall and an island? I am worried that won't be enough cabinet space for me. Unless, of course, you create a wall, but then we lose the open concept, which I really would like to keep. Also, when you come into the entry, wouldn't you see right into the kitchen? I want to avoid that if possible! Right now you look into the dining area/table, and there is a wall behind the stairs blocking the kitchen. I don't want my baking shenanigans to be the first thing a guest dropping by would see! If you have a smart design idea on this one, send it my way, because I definitely am intrigued by this idea.

"Okay, I'll shut up now."

Please don't; you have been very helpful!

"I am tired and can not figure this out - this is my disclaimer in case my comment sounds harsh."

Don't worry!

"I will double check in the morning, when I have access to a different pc and can see your plans better. I did not see the elevations. Where are them?"

I don't have updated elevations. I could scan the ones I have, but they won't be current.

"You said that this is "final", that you have a designer.
I would not consider these plans preliminary. I am lost, the rooms are not tagged, bathrooms are not designed, etc. With a designer involved I'd expect a better use of the space. Looking at this in perspective, you are investing in a geothermal system and you have tiny closets and masterbath."

Well, hence the quotations around "final." This is obviously NOT a blueprint, but we had a 3 hour sit-down and made any final design changes WE could think of. I guess I should not say "final"! As far as master bath/closets, help help! ANY ideas would be appreciated. I am not in love with the current design. I am hesitant to give up a lot of master bedroom space. 15.5'x19', while spacious, doesn't seem extreme considering a king-sized bed and a small sitting area.

"I'd place more windows in the lower level so it does not feel like a basement. You are going to have a "guest suite" with no window. Looks like you are a good host, your guests will hate that room and it will be a code violation."

Okay, that is an oops!! There will be two LARGE windows in that space. The guest suite/office combo represented a major change put into place last time we met with our designer. I think he just mapped out the space for us generally and did not include windows! The bedrooms have, I feel, nice sized windows, but would you recommend larger ones? Putting addtional windows (say, on the sides of the basement) is possible, but most would be well windows based on the elevation.

"Are you planning to have a concrete cap at the porch? Looks like part of the rec room is under the porch? you have an 8' basement, and you will have a beam.
I suggest to build a 9' H. basement. On the other hand, it looks like the garage office will be over the basement which is ok but that space in the garage (maybe a shop?) is it also over the basement? another concrete cap or wood joists? Why they do not show the garage foundation in the lower level plan?"

The back of the garage will be wood joists. Nothing heavy will be driven back into that little "shop" space, and only the noses of our vehicles will overhang the rest. As far as the rec room/porch issue, we do have 9' ceilings, but we will still have a soffit there from the beam. It will hang down about 8 inches, they tell us. We're okay with that. Beyond that, I don't know much about what they are supposed to include in the drawings at this stage!

Too many words to read so I'll jump in and probably cover the same stuff.

IMHO a double entry door is a very distinctive design element that must be treated with respect. To me that means the porch columns and entry hall should all be placed on the center line of the doors or they will look like they were added later or were a mistake.

Bi-fold closet doors should open outward rather than inward unless the closet is 3 ft. deep so the clearance is not less than 2 ft for the hanging clothes. Reversed bi-fold doors are also difficult to operate and any projecting hardware will be in the way.

A pocket door is for rooms that are normally open and might need be closed off on rare occasions or if there is simply no other way to close an opening. They are truly a pain to use.

A small deep walk-in closet is most efficient with one door and clothes on either side rather than expensive double doors.

There should be a more formal entrance portal between the entry hall and the large room with the fireplace. The lack of a clear definition between rooms not only makes them difficult to decorate and trim, it makes the design appear amateurish which your designer should be helping you avoid. Are we talking about another one of those apprentice drafter/goffer "designers" or is he/she just too busy to help you out? If you are trying to design the house yourself before meeting with a designer you are not utilizing your resources at all well. It's OK to fool around with ideas but putting them into a CAD program is like taking a sandwich to a banquet.

I would shorten the island and widen the pantry but I'm sure that has already been suggested.

I wouldn't want to be looking at the end of a kitchen cabinet from the living room.

It appears that there is a portion of the lower level that projects underground at the entry side. IMHO that is a very expensive and difficult to waterproof arrangement and should be avoided unless it is used as a tornado refuge. In any case it will have a lower ceiling which will probably force the rest of the lower level to have a higher ceiling. I would consider the cost to be prohibitive, a water intrusion problem, the space unpleasant; 3 major league strikes IMHO.

I'm not sure but it appears the stair treads shown on each level do not stack by at least 2 treads. I'm not sure the house can be built without a major repositioning of the stair or adjacent walls.

Personally I would not feature a stair going down just because, to me, a narrow hole in a corner is not a very interesting architectural element. If the opening were larger than the stair or there were interior windows or skylights above it, perhaps it could be an attractive feature.

I would try to create some kind of sense of end to the kitchen where the "big living space" begins. You don't want it to look like a kitchen showroom.

lkziemke,

I have news for you.
The stair is not located in the same exact spot in both plans (it is shifted). I suspected that the builder and designer were thinking 8' tall lower level when I counted the stair treads.
You will need 2 more steps to make it a 9' unless the builder does not care and will build 8" risers (do not let him) - he can not place 2 more steps in the current set up.
I do not like the idea of that soffit in the rec. on top of not having windows, plus he will need to run ducts.

I suggest not to make the bedrooms any smaller since you have a lot of social area: dining room space combined with a hearth room (what you call great room), living, play room, recreational room (family r). The use of space is not balanced (Mayor issue) and the home will not feel pleasant.
Maybe the plans are the result of what you told the designer to do, but there are ways to get what you want with nicer results.

The other comments that I have are minor (like doors) and I will comment on them when you have a better plan.
The kitchen needs some work but they have to fix the stair issue firt.
I mention many times here that I hate a foyer with no walls and only doors (but this is personal preference)

Do not start construction. Do not let your builder rush you. Your plans are not and my heart is telling me that you deserve better.

OK,
I see another issue with the stairs" it is 4'-6" wide in basement and 4'-0" on the first floor. It will look terrible when you enter the home.

Seriously, I just want to scrap the thing and start over. Or just live in a cave.

I am so frustrated with this whole process. I do think our designer is an idiot. I want to find someone else.

Thanks all.

In terms of ventilation, almost all your windows face into walls instead of getting a place where you can get a good cross breeze. You also don't have any rooms where you have windows on more than one wall, which will improve the light quality of the room and make the rooms look bigger and more comfortable.

I'm afraid all my books are packed up while I am in an apartment, but here are a couple of examples of plans online with kitchens in the middle of things:
http://sunplans.com/html/houseDisplay.php3?house=Adirondack_Atrium_2&page=first_floor_plan

http://sunplans.com/html/houseDisplay.php3?house=Equinox_2&page=first_floor_plan

http://sunplans.com/html/houseDisplay.php3?house=French_Cowgirl&page=first_floor_plan

This may sound harsh But you need to not be afraid to get away from this plan. I am not saying you dont even come back to it if thats what you want but you need to look at other options. When I do a design for a client I look at 3-5 variations after meeting with them and visiting the site for design clues ( usually) I sit down to discuss the pros and cons of those options then and see what they like or not. Then I revise one or two plans and zero in on the best answer. I sketch furniture in place so they can see how a room size feels of how it will lay out. Then after getting close to a plan that works I develop the elevations based on the style of home the client and I have discussed. The clients I find the most difficult are those that have worked on a plan themselves for a long time and cling to it no matter how much I show them it doesnt work well. Its emotionally difficult to take criticism for many people especially after working so long on that plan. We are human and its natural to do so. However I learned now that If I show them a cleaned up version of their plan first I can then simply show them my other options and see their reactions without putting them down so to speak by fighting that plan. More often than not they can then more openly look at the new plans and see that it works better and are less likely to object or feel like their efforts are being dismissed. A good designers /architect is trained to hopefully look past the tunnel vision and develop designs that work for you and your family. My suspicion is that you are too tied to a plan that has many deficiencies to most people. I see how you defend many issues that are being brought up and thats your right but it doesn't change the realities that many of the issues are not acceptible to many. I would just suggest looking at a few of the options peope have suggested on paper by a good designer ( if yours isnt) I would not spend my hard earned money to build this plan as it is. I just dont think it makes sense for your family( this is just my opinion)based on 17 years experience doing residential design and dealing with and listening to what most clients want. I just feel you can get a better design with some effort. Dont except this many problems with your design. You can do better and deserve it. You many not solve every issue but dont settle either. I feel if you build it you will be kicking yourself for years after. Yes its new and it is shelter but you can and should ENJOY your new home and it should make your life easier and family happy. I hear many times from clients how they now enjoy cooking or entertaining more because the new plan or addition /remodel solved so many issues they had. Dont give up or get overly frustrated just get resolved to get good design. I hope you take this for what it is ... My opinion as a person who hates to see peole not get better design and service for their money. Good Luck

bigkahuna, I agree, and I thank you. I am going to forge ahead. I wanted a 2-story anyway. That design really isn't even close to my vision. I think this thread has showed me that DH and I need to stand up and get what we want/need in this situation. There are sooo many complicated family elements I don't want to discuss here, but I think we need to do what is best for us.