Hi Larsi,

Curious, have you noticed the same in regard to towels?

Regards

@ covingtoncat....YES! But sheets were more noticeably less soft and silky!

Larsi, I believe both the Vaska and the Miele Care for delicates contain a softener in them - I think that's what helps everything feel so nice.

I bought some Clorox Greenworks and I'm doing a load right now. We'll see ... do you find it a little sudsy? I used less than the line "1" and it has suds. Hopefully it rinses clean.

livebetter,

Yes, Clorox Greenworks is a little sudsy! TRUST ME...using less that the "1" line will not clean clothes that need a good washing (kid's cloths, gym clothes, bad stains...). For most loads, I use line "2", and while it produces a lot more suds than Vaska, Persil or even Tide he...I have never had a problem with rinsing.

I think Clorox Green Works is a GREAT detergent...95% natural, no OBs, contains enzymes, natural fragrance, and ALL ingredients are listed on the website.

Thanks Larsi!

I'm sticking with Vaska for sheets and towels (and delicates), for now. I am using Vaska FS, too, But not on towels.

Which FS do you use with Persil other than Downy? The new formulation is too strong for me to handle. For fun I ordered 3 different Vernel scents when I got the Persil (Day at the Sea- really perfumy and strong, Peach and Lemon - Love, and sensitive formula - kinda neutral on this one.

Well, I did two loads tonight (white towels, kids darks) with Clorox Greenworks. Both came out very nice.

I bought regular scent and free and clear (Canada doesn't have lavender .... bummer). I used half and half (like I do with Method). I found the scent very mild when done.

Kids' clothes looked clean and not faded, towels looked white. I did add oxygen bleach with the towels and used my fav Shaklee fabric softener with kids' clothes.

All in all, so far so good. I'll see how fresh things still smell in a few days.

Thanks for the tip Larsi! It's hard to find a product with no OBAs that has enzymes. This may be great for my kids' clothes (especially darks).

My washer is probably only 3.1 cf so I'll stick with my slightly under "1" dose for now. It did rinse OK but it was sudsy.

Vaska is the best for linens and towels though. Makes them feel and smell heavenly. I was afraid to try the Miele for delicates as the smell seemed strong for me and I wasn't sure I even liked the scent.

Just an FYI that this is what the Greenworks site says about the fragrances, "Natural fragrances can go bad over time, which is why our products contain synthetic fragrances with oils extracted from plants that leave behind a clean, fresh scent."

Not a big Vernel FS fan! I have a stash of the original April Fresh Downy, that I value like the hope diamond :)
The Downy Mountain Spring scent, is strong, but to me not overpowering and makes towels and sheets smell heavenly!

I actually like the Miele Care Collection Fabric Softener scent, but just too $ for FS!

@livebetter....ALL 3 of our local Targets and Pavillion/Vons/Safeway markets stopped selling the Green Works Lavender). I see it is still on the Green Works website though. I wonder if they are phasing it out. I noticed both the Original Scent and Scent Free have new bottles and label designs! It's a great product!

I just washed a few loads using Vaska again. I have to agree with you Larsi, the clothes are definitely MUCH softer than if washed in Persil Megaperls. I thought liquid detergent may generally leave clothes softer, but it sounds like your experience with Persil Gel is the opposite. There is something in Vaska that leaves clothes very soft. I love the feel of the clothes and no fabric softener is required.

It does clean most common stains, but more challenging stains will definitely require pre-treating. Vaska is definitely on top when compared to other "green" and environmentally responsible detergents on the market. It definitely cleans better and leaves clothes softer than any other natural product I've used, including Ecover, Bi-O-Kleen, Country Save and Charlie's Soap.

I smelled the Lavender Green Works @ Target the other day. Much prefer Vaska. They did not have any of the regular scent or scent free Green Works on the shelf.

Thanks Covingtoncat. It's not available here anyway. I did use the regular mixed with unscented to do all 3 loads of kids' clothes last night.

I don't want to get too excited but it seemed to do a very nice job. Everything was clean and fresh. I'll see how they smell after a few days put away but I think this is a keeper for my kids' clothes. No OBAs! Yeah!

I noticed people who did carry it here no longer do though ... worrisome ... maybe it's not selling well enough.

I did a load of sheets in Vaska and I too can say they came out softer than with P&G products. I do not get as much suds in my LG wave force washer as I did with my FL. I might try the fabric softener too. I will try it on some whites and see how they come out.

gates1, add some oxygen bleach (I use a pure form from BioVert) to your whites with the Vaska. Mine come out very white and stain free. Most of our sheets our white and almost all of our towels.

Has anyone tried Tide Totalcare? It also leaves clothes very soft after washing similar to Vaska.

I just bought a small bottle of Totalcare and used it on a load of dog bedding and small jute-type rugs. I am amazed at the results. The rugs have looked a bit weathered for a while and the corners curled just slightly due to shrinkage. After washing in Totalcare, the rugs now lay perfectly flat on the floor and the curl has completely disappeared. The rug fabric also looks fresher and not as aged as it used to.

I have not used this over the long term, but so far it seems to be cleaning fine and does have a noticeably positive effect on fabrics after only a single wash. I am curious to see what happens over the long term. I have soft water and used 1/4 the recommended dose for a large load. Washing at 140F, there were some suds in the wash but nothing to be alarmed about. First rinse had very few bubbles and the 2nd rinse was crystal clear with no bubbles whatsoever.

@livebetter....for a while both our local Target stores did not have the Clorox Green Works, but now they carry the original scent and the scent free again. I think the issue was the they have new packaging. At least the original scent is now in a new, green bottle (the old one was a white bottle with a green lid). Both Target stores no longer offer the lavendar scent (but it is still on their website as a current product).

@sstava....Yes, I am still out of Vaska, but I found a 1/2 bottle of the Miele Care Collection detergent for Delicates. It also makes my sheets SOFT, silky and amazing...just like the Vaska. I think it is due to NO enzymes. While I LOVE my Persil Color Gel and even Clorox Green Works, they both contain multiple enzymes, and just do not make sheets feel like the Vaska and Miele Delicate detergent (both 100% enzyme free).

@covingtioncat....I actually think the Clorox Green Works lavendar smells great, but the Vaska is more of a "true" south of france smelling lavendar. I am actually NOT a lavendar fan at all, but the Vaska makes the sheets so soft, and after using some softener and drying them...the lavendar smell is gone. I would LOVE Vaska to offer another light, natural smell (lemon verbena or geranium or maybe rose water....those are some of my favourite natural smells.

When I finish up this VERY expensive (small!) bottle of Miele Care Collection Delicate wash (that I didn't even know I had...it was hidden in the back of my cupboard with my MANY bottles of goodies)..I will buy a bottle of Vaska again, just for my sheets!

@gates1...I ordered the Vaska Fabric Softener online (it is not available at ANY store where I live in Southern California). I HATED, HATED it. It was thick, waxy and the smell was like fishy lavendar! In ALL honesty, the clothes and sheets felt better just washing with Vaska Herbatergent alone. I eventually just dumped the Vaska FS down the drain, rinsed the bottle and threw it into the recycling container! Vaska, and a small amount of Downy...really makes sheets the softest and silkiest I have ever felt (Miele Care Collection does the same, but it's just so $$).

Larsi, this is the second time you've discarded one of your detergent/FS products down the drain. As I suggested in another thread long ago, why didn't you just donate it to a local animal shelter or some other non-profit that could have really used the product? Instead you added to the wastewater treatment burden and threw away an otherwise good product.

For goodness sake, you could have even given the bottle to one of your neighbors! There are a million alternatives to pouring it down the drain. Grrrr!

@sstava...I know, I know. Closest animal shelter is at least 30 miles away. Not "green" using all that fuel to drive such a long distance for a small bottle of $7 FS! I could however, have asked a neighbor. Just don't like giving someone something, that I hate!

Hi Larsi!

I find the Vaska FS much less thick than the Downy. I wonder if you got an old or "off" bottle? If you don't like the smell, then you don't like it, but you're comment about its consistency has me wondering.

Vaska detergent's come in other formulas besides lavender, so maybe that would be a better alternative in the future for you.

Mrs. Meyer's has Lemon Verbena and Geranium scented detergents, but I've not used them.

Sstava..... You tell me:

"Larsi, this is the second time you've discarded one of your detergent/FS products down the drain. As I suggested in another thread long ago, why didn't you just donate it to a local animal shelter or some other non-profit that could have really used the product? Instead you added to the wastewater treatment burden and threw away an otherwise good product"

I think me dumping a small bottle of ALL NATURAL Vaska herbal fabric softener down the drain, is less of an enviornmental burden, than you liking and using Tide TotalCare detergent which contains TWO OPTICAL BRIGHTENERS!!! From what I have read, OB's are VERY bad for waste water and aquatic life!!

Not being harsh, or coming off as a d--k, but I don't think my Vaska herbal softener down the drain is any worse (it's probably better) than washing clothes with your Tide chemical based detergent that contains TWO optical brighteners. Of the 2 acts, mind is probablay more "green"!! ;)

The animal shelter still could have used it. That's the point.

Just a quick note... I completed my third big load w/ Tide Totalcare and my lint screen barely has anything in it. I always have a "normal" amount of lint when using Vaska or Persil, which is why I check the screen after each load. This definitely bodes well for their claim to protect fabrics. This fiber complex is supposed to lubricate the fabrics on a microscopic level, thereby reducing friction and wear on the fibers.

It sounds like there is some very cool science behind this product. And Larsi, I'll bet my OBAs against your FS any day! hehehe :P

Larsi, I too think you had a bad bottle of Vaska FS. Mine is a runny consistency and does not smell like fish. It doesn't smell as nicely lavender as the detergent (which is stange) but not gross. It does not leave my clothes feeling waxy at all. It's not as good to me as my favourite but I don't hate it.

A few days after washing some loads with Totalcare I think this product is disgusting. First of all, the scent after drying isn't initially objectionable - it smells kind of fruity. However, the scent lingers on my clothes for days and I can't stand that. A whiff here and there is no big deal, but if I have to smell it all day and every day that's way too much for me.

The product leaves a white powdery residue at the bottom of my rubber boot and around the water exit holes. I don't like that. After three deep rinses and spins, there should be nothing left in the water. There is certainly no obvious visible residue after washing in Vaska, Persil, or any of the other products I've tried over the years. If there's white powder on my rubber seal then there's white powder in my clothes. No thanks.

I've learned my lesson.

sshrivastava, is "deep rinse" something you can set the Miele to do? Thanks!

I really love Vaska for all things delicate. Smell is devine! I also believe that things look brighter when I wash with it - maybe it's just my eyes :)

If you set your W4842 to Maximum Water Level via the hidden service menu, you will get more water in the rinses. This won't apply to custom programs, but any of the built-in programs and Mastercare cycles will utilize this setting.

sshrivastava...

I think deep rinses in the W4940 & W4842 are achieved by setting the machines to Water+ / Extra Rinse. I'm pretty sure setting to Maximum water level does not do very much! I was told this by our Miele Tech. Setting the W4842 to Water+ provides DEEP rinses...a lot of water used :)

OH NO..... I cannot believe you hate Tide TotalCare. I respect and trust a lot of your reviews, and I just bought a HUGE bottle of Tide TotalCare he today at Target, since you said it might be the perfect soap. I just checked my rubber boot & water exit holes...and there is NOT even a hint of white residue (I've seen this with powder he detergents, but never with liquid he ones). I washed a load of sheets and my son's clothes with the Total Care...and it seemed fine. I do not love the smell, but I find it very faint!!

Larsi... I, too, was surprised that there was a white powdery residue on the rubber. That has not happened to me with any other detergent, liquid or powder. That just goes to show what an effect our individual water chemistries have on detergents. The white residue was apparent where water had collected and later evaporated. The rinse water was perfectly clear without a single bubble, so this residue thing took me by surprise.

I'm curious to see how you like the Totalcare. I think items washed in Vaska are still slightly softer, but Totalcare's ability to preserve shape, color and softness is very attractive to me.

Meant W4840 and W4842...not W4940!! :)

Sshrivastava, YES individual water chemistry is huge. Like I've mentioned many, many times Tide he Powder, Gain he Powder, Tide with Bleach powder leave my stainless wash drum coated with a pretty thick (yet fine in texture) white powdery residue. That is after 2-3 deep & abundant rinses with the machine set to Water+ / Extra Rinse.

With the white residue you see and what I had...I can just imagine that is on our clothes! Ick. While I do not love the smell of Tide TotalCare (renewing rain I think it is called)...the clothes looked really good, stains were gone, my 4 year old son's school clothes looked great too! I ALWAYS use fabric softener...and I too think items felt softer with Vaska Herbatergent. Even though I never had a problem with stains not coming out with Vaska, I always thought it was odd to be washing gym clothes and my son's clothes without enzymes. I know enzymes do not make the clothes feel soft, but they make me feel the clothes are cleaner and more deodorized!

As I continue to use TotalCare...I will keep you and our Forum updated!

I don't see how enzymes deodorize anything. Am I not understanding how the work?

These are the typical enzymes and the type of soil they break down to simpler forms for removal by detergent:

Proteases act on soils and stains containing proteins. Examples are collar & cuff soil-lines, grass, blood. Proteases are enzymes that break down a long protein into smaller chains called peptides (a peptide is simply a short amino acid chain).

Amylases remove starch-based soils and stains, e.g. sauces, ice-creams, gravy. Amylases break down starch chains into smaller sugar molecules.

Lipases are effective in removing oil / greasy body and food stains.

Cellulases provide general cleaning benefits, especially on dust and mud, and also work on garments made from cellulosic fibers, minimizing pilling to restore color and softness.

Here is a link that might be useful: Why using Enzymes in detergents? - P&G

@ livebetter....Thank you for your very detailed explanation of laundry enzymes!

While no specific enzyme will "deodorize", as we all know, enzymes aid in the the cleaning process of many proteins and molecules!

I work out regularly. I wear anti-perspirant and deodorant DAILY. I do not like to sweat or smell like sweat. Many under arm deos and anti-perspirants adhere to fabric. Without enzymes, laundry detergent cannot thorougly remove the deo and anti-perspirant from the fabric. In turn, the fabric still smells, hence what I like to consier deodorizing!

Before I am attacked for not using a "green" deodorant or anti-perspirant...I have tried DOZENS. I hate them all. I do not like to feel wet, and I do not like to smell of underarm odor. If I am putting a hole in the ozone, or killing some baby seal somewhere because I choose to use "real" deodorant & anti-perspirant...well, life sucks sometimes!! :) I do my part for the Earth (solar panels, recycle everything I can, I own a "green" car, all appliances are efficient and new, etc... But, I draw the line with deodorant!! LOL

Larsi have you tried crystal deodorant ? Its actually just salt, and it does work, somewhat. I use it when I wear white shirts.

Hubbest wears anti-pers/deodorant and I have a devil of a time with his undershirts. The fabric gets "crunchy" and yellow under the arms. Its BAD.

That "crunchy" you speak of is aluminum salts ... I don't have time now for a search but I'll try to post something about that for you. I've looked it up before. VERY hard to remove from clothes.

J/A/S/O/N makes a very nice deodorant stick that worked for me while I was in Colorado for a conference last year! :)

Hi Livebetter! The solution to the Aluminum Salts build up is : Pretreat the area with common household ammonia, let sit several hours or overnight in a plastic bag and then launder in the hottest water that is safe for the fabric. I used a spray bottle. I HIGHLY recommend you do this outdoors or in a well ventilated area. It is REALLY, really obnoxious smelling. Bad build up may require additional treatment. It works.

Now I'm trying to do something about the remaining yellowing/staining. I've tried vinegar, bleach, oxy bleach, you name it. I"m hoping the true hot temps in my miele will make a difference.

Suggestions welcome.

The crunchy yellow buildup on my white undershirts went away, when I started washing them on Hot (140degF) with the Extended option (long wash cycle). Since then I've switched to colored undershirts, which haven't gotten any buildup even though I wash them only on Very Warm (122degF). I'm still using the same roll-on anti-perspirant.

That's good news to hear, suburbanmd. I will hope for the best.