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Is my cold water too cold?

Pawprint
15 years ago

I would like to save money and use cold water all the time. However, in the winter, the water is MUCH colder than normal.

Is super cold water able to clean dirty kitchen rugs or dog bedding?

I hope the answer is yes, and it's all in my mind that cold doesn't always work.

Comments (25)

  • dadoes
    15 years ago

    No.

    Detergent (EVEN liquids) don't dissolve very well in very cold water. Nor do the soils in clothing. I've seen washers that got very nasty when only cold water was used over an extended period of time.

  • regus_patoff
    15 years ago

    I live in Wisconsin.
    I don't like cold water for wash OR rinse.
    Did you every try to wash your hands with COLD water ?
    The soap just doesn't want to rinse off.
    If you have a utility tub / faucet by your washer, you could connect the washer COLD hose to the FAUCET TAP
    and set the hot/cold faucet valves for somewhere betweeen cold & warm.
    The washer HOT hose can be left connected to the HOT pipe.

  • asolo
    15 years ago

    Even mfgrs. of "cold water formula" detergents regard about 60F as the lower limit. Many locations have water supplies colder than that, especially in winter.

    I do remember one cold water cheer TV advertisement that seemed to tout good results even in ice water. Good luck with that.

  • asolo
    15 years ago

    Addendum to above....

    My idea of "cold" wash would be 85-95F. That's about the what the outside surface of human skin is. If the fabric can endure the heat of the body it was designed to cover then, surely, it can be safely washed at that temperature. I see little purpose in going colder than that for anything.

  • jerrod6
    15 years ago

    In the dead of winter my cold water is about 38F-40F degrees. Forget about it.

    I only use tap cold for dark colors and even then I prefer warm to HOT. Why use cold water?

  • Pawprint
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    I want to use cold water for engergy saving. Per everything I've read, this is what I found.

    "About 90% of the energy used for washing clothes is for heating the water. There are two ways to reduce the amount of energy used for washing clothesÂuse less water and use cooler water. Unless you're dealing with oily stains, the warm or cold water setting on your machine will generally do a good job of cleaning your clothes."

  • cynic
    15 years ago

    ...connect the washer COLD hose to the FAUCET TAP..."

    Geez, there's one of those simple solutions I never thought of! We're coming into summer now so I might not bother right now as I do use the sink for other things but I'm going to add that to my fall chore list. It's a great idea since my washer is a cold rinse only. I have done sort of a workaround before by setting to a short wash cycle (without adding more detergent of course) at the end of the spin to make a warm rinse and end with the cold rinse as an extra rinse. Especially when I've added too much detergent and had a washer full of suds! This would save some water and I wouldn't have to stay by the washer to monitor it.

    Thanks for the suggestion!

  • asolo
    15 years ago

    "...the warm or cold water setting on your machine will generally do a good job..."

    And, as always, they haven't said anything about what they MEAN by "cold" or "warm".....so nobody really knows what they're talking about. Really annoying.

  • jerrod6
    15 years ago

    Savings - I guess it depends. If you have a older TL I guess so, but if you have a newer energy efficient TL or FL I figure using that is enough savings(for me) and I am using hot water when I want to. Again no one is saying how hot is hot and how cold is cold.

    For example. Some machines mix hot and cold to make hot which is about 90F. This is cooler than my body temperature and is not my idea of HOT, and it wasn't the definition of HOT in the 1980's. Hot was 140F to 160F.

    Some machines mix hot and cold to make cold which is about 85F. This may be OK because even some cold water detergents say that cold is at least 60F.

    Most of my loads are done in warm which on my machine is 105F or very warm which is 120F. This temp works well for most loads. Dirty white or oily items get a temp over this but that's about all.

    Do you get good results with warm? This is still saving energy and money. I just don't think super cold water and current detergents will work well.

  • User
    15 years ago

    Here's an interesting link about how cold the water should be, and 60° seems to be the lower limit for getting clothes clean. I have the same problem, being on a well, in the winter, my water is very cold, and not very warm in the summer either. My daughter, in Texas, has warm water all the time, and that's out of the cold water tap.

    My water heater is quite a distance from the washer, so I run the water into the laundry sink until it's hot if I need hot water for the white laundry. When I do a load of dark clothes on "cold" water, I set it at warm, and the water from the cold line is diluted by the somewhat warmer water from the hot water line.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Laundry water temperature

  • regus_patoff
    15 years ago

    Most washers don't monitor the temperature of the incoming water and adjust the H/C pressures/timing for WARM.

    For WARM, they just turn on both Hot & Cold, but since the FL's only use about 5 gallons in a wash, that would mean about 2.5 gallons of HOT, and I don't know about your plumbing, but there's about that much in the "room temperature" water pipes before the "real" hot water begins.

    My LG washer defines water temperature as follows:

    EXTRA HOT . . 70 C . . 158 F (My LG Heats the Water)
    HOT . . . . . . . . . 50 C . . 122 F
    WARM . . . . . . . 40 C . . 104 F
    COLD . . . . . . .. 30 C . . . 86 F

    Milwaukee WI May 10th 8pm outside air temp = 47F
    COLD TAP water = 52 F

  • asolo
    15 years ago

    In my experience with salespeople and with my neighbors, NOBODY has ever had any idea what cold/warm/hot actually means in their machines -- or why it matters. Kind of a shame because its easy to determine in any machine and any cycle by simply using an el-cheapo instant-read thermometer.

    Temperature, water quality, and detergent composition and amount are pretty basic. Need to be figured out for each installation for consistent results.

  • dadoes
    15 years ago

    Fisher & Paykel IWL12 toploader, bought October 2004.

    Cold = tap cold
    Cold+ = target minimum 16°C (61°F)
    Warm/Cold = target 34°C (93°F)
    Warm = target 46°C (115°F)
    Warm/Hot = target 51°C (124°F)
    Hot = tap hot

    Those temps are for the mixed flow through the water valves into the machine. The resulting temp in the tub after fill finishes is less than the target due to thermal absorption by the clothes and machine's tub/basket/agitator.

    Texas, near Houston. As of now, 5/11/2008 4:00 PM ... letting the tap run several mins, cold settled at approx 76°F.

  • regus_patoff
    15 years ago

    electric water heating may cost about 2 cents per gallon.
    gas water heating may be about 1 cent per gallon.

    Normal FL's use about 5 gallons per cycle

    Wash 5 Gal
    Rinse 5 Gal
    Rinse 5 Gal

    the rinses are usually COLD and if you normally use WARM water for wash, you'd be using about 2.5 Gallons of HOT water (5 cents) and maybe another 5 cents if you use 1 WARM rinse...

  • asolo
    15 years ago

    Trouble with the HE machines is you pay for the heated water whether or not it actually reaches the machine during the fill. Or whether it's at the temperature you may think it is when it does. Between the varying temps of peoples' water heaters, the length of pipe between it and the machine, material of those pipes, and the temp/mass of the drum and clothes, few people know what they've got going on during the wash.

    Seems to me, these basic considerations extant for all of these machines would result in Bosch/Siemens, with their guaranteed temps in every cycle, achieving increasing market share. I would also think other mfgrs would hop on that bandwagon. Appears to me that the marketplace remains more-or-less ignorant of such considerations and there is no "bandwagon".

    I have the Duet. Like most machines, it's hot/warm/cold settings are complete fictions except for the three cycles that engage the on-board heater. From experience and measuring, I know what it's going to do and get dependable results because of that. However, I would rather be able to depend upon it regardless. Being able to do that is, at this date, apparently unique to Bosch/Seimens.

  • jerrod6
    15 years ago

    Not having guaranteed temps seems like a feature of the larger machines with 110V heaters. Smaller machines with 220V heaters give you the temps they say they will and also can give you temps around 200F.

    I think the Bosch/Siemens larger models have guaranteed temps but they are low. I think hot is something like 110F or 115F, not 140F or 160F that the smaller 220V units call hot. Not sure about that but I don't think warm is very warm nor is hot really hot.

    I think we loose out all around. The larger units hold more clothes but come with 110V heaters so can't heat the water hot unless you want each cycle to last for 3 hours and have poor Energy Star ratings.

    The smaller units that were 220V heated the water very hot and quickly but folks don't like their small 12 or 13 pound capacity and people don't want to run a 220V line a washer. People balk at running a 220V line to a washer. They will run one to a dryer but not a washer - so - this is what we get.

  • asolo
    15 years ago

    The 110v machines all have "sanitary" cycles that top out between 155-170F. The price paid is large increase in cycle-time for those higher-heat cycles -- typically two hours or longer. If one wants higher heat than that, the 220v machines are the ticket....as you said...although I am not aware that they do anything at "cold" settings.

    What I meant to home in on was predictable temps at the low end of the range. Sorry I wasn't clear about that...the topic of the thread. Except for the Bosch/Seimens top-line, I am unaware of any machines that guarantee selected temps....even at the cold end...meaning too-cold supply will be raised to 60F+ (or whatever the number is) but no further. Most machines' heaters are only activated for higher temps. They don't do anything for lower temps....in particular for temps below 60F where the various detergents performances are greatly attenuated. Basically, they just open the cold-tap solenoid and whatever the cold-water supply delivers, that's what the wash-temp will be.

  • looser
    15 years ago

    I agree with asolo's comments that guaranteed temperatures are a good thing to have even if the temperature setting iof the cycles is somewhat low. That one the main reason for me to get the Bosch washer. I am aware of the actual temperatures of the cycles and that the warm cycle is just 90 degrees (rather cold), but I can adjust the cycle selection accordingly. The sanitary cycle offers 170 degrees (for three minutes, then 150), the kids cycle reaches 150 F and the hot cycle 120. It would be nice to have a few more options, but I can definitely find an appropriate cycle for all my clothes, bedding and towels.

    jerrod6,
    the European FLs sold in Europe (220 V, 5-7 kg capacity) coldest cycle is a 30 degree Celsius wash, except for maybe the delicate cycles. So all those washers should heat the water to approx. 90 F which is still below body temperature so the vast majority of clothes won't get any damage...
    I am not sure if the smaller European washers offered in the US are exactly the same, I guess you'd have to check the specific manuals or call the manufacturer.

    To the OP,
    yes, I do think that tap cold water is too cold to get anything clean. It might work on clothes that are very slightly soiled or smelly, but for dog bedding or dish rags I'd always choose a much higher temperature. In our old TL we used the "hot" cotton cycle and the dish rags would still be smelly. The enzymes of the detergents are not active at temperatures below approx. 90 F and no bacteria or fungi get effectively killed at anything below ~140 F. Rinsing your dish rags in the kitchen sink with hot water will most likely get them cleaner than washing them at tap cold temperatures in a washing machine. One thing you can do to kill the germs in dish rags if you really can't or don't want to do hot washes is to put the wet dish rags in the microwave for a minute. Afterwards you can wash them and they should be fairly clean.

  • Pawprint
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thank you for the information. I have a Whirlpool Duet FL. I don't know if it mixes hot and cold water to "make" the cold water wash warmer.
    I cant put a thermometer in the washer, the FL is pretty strong and would break it. I'll have to read my manual.

  • asolo
    15 years ago

    "I cant put a thermometer in the washer"

    Yes, you can. Get an instant-read thermometer. Once the machine is filled and has run for a few minutes, just open the door and stick it in there for a moment or two to get your reading. On the cycles that use the on-board heater, you won't be able to do that because the door won't release, but on the cycles where the heater isn't engaged you will be able to.

    I have learned via cancelling these cycles completely and "forcing' it to release the door latch that the temps specified using the heater for the higher levels is are accurate. The cold/warm/hot temps indicated without engaging the heater are delivered only via mixing cold/hot water supply and are not at all accurate -- at least not what I consider to be useful "hot", "warm", or "cold".

    The Duet I have (9400; three years old) does not use its heater to modify the temperature of tap-cold (too cold) water. To my knowledge, only the Bosch/Seimens top-line models do that. My Duet only engages the heater on three cycles -- the ones that provide a boost to 130F and above. The other cycles just mix the hot/cold supplies according to the "cold/warm/hot" cycles the user sets -- which, as I said, is kind of a joke.

  • heimert
    15 years ago

    I have a standard kenmore (elite) washer that is not HE. It has settings for "cold" and "warm" that will mix hot/cold to hit certain set points. In other words, warm is mixed so that you get some temp (90?) and same for cold. Ther'es also the standard cold/warm/hot where you get what you get from the taps.

  • asolo
    15 years ago

    Typically, this is not troublesome for non-HE machines because of the quantity of water used. However, for low-fill-volume HE machines it is an issue because there's not enough water coming in -- regardless of temperature -- for ATC devices to do much (or any) good. There's not enough hot/cold water to mix to acheive any desired result in the machine compared with the mass of the tub and clothes.

    If you're choosing a new HE machine, get one with a heater.

  • jerrod6
    15 years ago

    looser

    I purchased one of the 6k Euro machines in 2003. My laundry is set up so that the washer drains into one of the laundry sinks which allows me to monitor the soil level, color transfer, and to see how well everything is getting rinsed. I have held my hand under the water while it is being pumped out for some cycles, but I have not actually measured the temp. Will do that next.

    Given the feel of the water except for the hottest water which gets cooled before it is pumped out, I am reasonably sure the 220V heater is getting the water as hot as specified. Still I will measure it.

    My washer has a program selector with various fabrics and types listed( cottons, perm press, jeans, dress shirt, silk, wool, dedicates so on). In each of these areas are the temperatures so I just turn the selector the the fabric type, then further turn it to the temp.

    Cottons has tap cold, 85F, 105F,120F,140F,190F
    Perma press has tap cold, 105,120F and 140F.
    Dedicates has tap cold, 85F, 105F
    Silk tap cold
    Wool has tap cold, 85F
    So on....

    This is a 6K machine with a 220V heater. When I select a cycle and temperature the machine shows an estimated time based on the last times that cycle has been used. It shows that the difference between wash using 120F water and one using 190F is seven minutes. So the heater works quickly. I can hear the heater when it goes on and off and in some warm and hot cycles, it does not start right away.

    It just seems like things are backwards. The smaller machines with 220V with less clothes, the larger machines with 110V but more water(maybe) and clothes.

    If the large washers start to be sold in Europe they will get the 220V heaters because that is their standard voltage. Large loads being done in record times with maximum heat compared to using 110V.

    In the end I guess like asolo says get a He machine with a heater.

  • asolo
    15 years ago

    When I'm king (ha!) all washers and dishwashers will heat their own water and have cold-water-only hookups. They'll all be 220v. They'll all allow you to dial in the temps you want like your machine does. And they'll all come with manuals that have actual information in them instead of the 3rd-grade level drivel they do now.

  • jerrod6
    15 years ago

    I am waiting for those manuals!