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adam211_gw

Suggestions for exterior styling

adam211
10 years ago

Hi, we just bought a 1908 home and are doing some work on the exterior. It used to look like this:

Someone somewhere along the way put up bright white vinyl siding:


As you can see, huge difference. We hope to restore its original look. It looks like the cedar is underneath, but we're not sure the condition. Sometime, maybe next year or maybe never, we hope to remove the vinyl and restore the cedar or replace with hardie of the same style.

Right now, however, we are replacing windows because we are splitting the upstairs room with that large window on the second story into two rooms, right down the middle, so we'll have to replace the window.

We intend to go Marvin Ultimate. Our options seem to be
Option 1. We like the cottage style 3-over-1, and think it fits the era decently.
Option 2. We also like the idea of trying to replicate the look of the original windows, so are toying with the idea of buying plane casement windows (with the checkrail in the middle to mimic double hung) and then applying lead tape on the inside.

One issue with option 2 is we are not sure when (if ever) we are going to re-side the house, and I'm not sure how good the leaded would look with the cheap vinyl. Also, would the lead tape people use with modern false-double-hung look anywhere near as good as the original?

These are horrible, but show you what I was thinking:

Option 1 general idea:

Option 2 general idea (the lower window doesn't look very accurate here. It would be split into three different windows, much like you see in the original photo. We'd probably try to go with the lead in the middle lower window like in the original. We are very open to your thoughts here.)

My question is
1. Assuming we go back to the original siding or a style just like the original siding, which window do you prefer
2. Assuming we keep the vinyl indefinitely, which do you prefer (or suggest another option)

Comments (10)

  • User
    10 years ago

    Why not the diamond panes? I've done it with Marvins.

    The house needs texture so don't pass up a chance to provide it. The shingles over clapboards is essential.

  • columbusguy1
    10 years ago

    Personally, I don't like your ideas for either option, but particularly hate Option 2. Your house does not suit casement windows, and the original diamond panes are NOT fake lead tape, or even real lead--they are wood muntins in a diamond shape.

    Further, your lower triple window should not have the upper sashes all the same size, do as the original was: the side ones being equal-sized doubles, the central window being a cottage-style window.

    For the upper window, stick with the original 3 over 1 like the downstairs originals, or the diamond pattern of wood muntins as shown originally. Whatever you decide with the siding (which should come off)...putting crappy looking 'pseudo-cottage' windows will look bad no matter what. Any reputable window company can sell you the appropriate style of sash--don't cheap out like the previous owner.

  • adam211
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    The bottom windows will all be double hung, cottage-style or not.

    Why would the horizontal muntin look so much better halfway up the window rather than 2/3rds up the window cottage style?

    Lead tape is no longer an option, particularly since I've now realized that the original was indeed wood. Marvin saleswoman told me if it was diamond shape it was almost certainly lead, but she didn't see the picture.

    The casement window is necessary for the upstairs for egress reasons, unless I want to turn my house into a 1 bedroom house. Probably not a good idea. I can either put a normal horizontal muntin across the window, or I can put a slightly thicker checkrail across the middle.

  • adam211
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    It seems you are suggesting one of the following two:

    Option 3:

    Option 4:

    My uneasiness with option three are the really tall top panes in the 3-over-1. They almost look slightly awkward to me even on homes that I see in the area with that. I've also seen a lot of homes with original cottage style 3-over-1 or the half height 3-over-1 and the cottage look more normally proportioned to my eye. But, I want to do what fits the house and want to improve the house, not continue butchering it.

    Also, it seems with the intricate pattern white might be too stark.

    This post was edited by adam211 on Mon, Jul 22, 13 at 11:39

  • columbusguy1
    10 years ago

    Adam, your option 4 picture is what I would do...including the window to the right of the door, of course. What is making it seem so awkward I think, is the thickness in your altered pictures--the muntins and check-rails in the original are not as thick as your image limitations, plus they aren't white--they were probably black which was a common sash color at that time.

    My own front window is a triple: a large central cottage window with diamond panes in the upper 1/3rd, while the flanking narrower windows are 6/1 with the 6 arranged in two vertical rows of three--these uppers are between 1/3 to 1/2 the total window height. My dining room bay window is identical, with the addition of 2 1 foot wide side windows forming the sides of the bay. My upstairs windows in front, 1 double and one single...are all 9/1, and the attic front dormers are 4/1s.

    Auditor's Pic

  • maryinthefalls
    10 years ago

    I also like option 4. IMO the house is still missing....something. Perhaps it could be fixed with color. Have you thought about painting the front door area? Maybe with a lighter version of the trim color. Over on houzz they seem to be recommending three colors on a house. You have the body and trim but need an accent. I'm lousy at this, so perhaps it's a stupid idea.

    Maybe just putting the trim back at the roof peak would do the job. I don't know what it's called, the stuff above the second floor windows.

  • rwiegand
    10 years ago

    Why not add back the original trim in the peak? And most definitely add back the beltline, it will dramatically improve any of your options. I'd do shingles above and siding below, just as it used to be.

    If you are thinking of replacing both windows and siding I'd suggest seriously considering wrapping the house in 2" of rigid foam insulation while you have the chance. For a few extra bucks you can dramatically improve both insulation and air sealing. With the wide overhangs you have on the roof you won't even need to mess with the roof. The deeper windows will also look more substantial form the inside.

  • adam211
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thank! Just to clarify--my intent is most definitely to replace the siding and make it look exactly like the original, regardless of what I do with the windows. Beltline with shingles on top. I'm not considering any other options. I plan either take it down to the original cedar siding beneath the vinyl or, if it isn't in good enough condition, completely replace the siding probably with Hardie or similar (apologies to this forum, but it simply must also be practical). It would definitely be the thinner siding on the bottom half and shingle on the top, regardless. I LOVE that! Money would just delay it, but I'm not considering any other options.

    What is still up in the air, however, is the window configuration.

    To make things fair, here is a shot of the hold house with the original siding but options. This might help, because I DO plan to replace the siding, so once I do, it will (hopefully!) look like one of these two,

    Option 1, revisited

    Option 2, revisited

    There's also option 3, but I would need some heavy convincing to do that one.

  • adam211
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    The screen door is ugly, I don't know if there are good looking screen doors as I hear that doors can rot without them. I don't think I want to paint the door. The door is just about the only thing unpainted left in the house. Inside and outside still great looking mahogany. The stucco porch is problematic. I'm not a fan of stucco, and if I paint the house a dark I'm not sure if a stark white porch would look odd. I may extend the porch some day, but most likely I'll just leave it forever and figure out what to do with a stucco porch.

    And yes, colors are a problem. I am a fine of darker houses with start trim, but I also like medium colored houses with a softer trim. I could see us doing a medium or dark grey with white or off-white trim. I think black windows would look good with that, but I'm not good at envisioning. If it weren't for the green neighbor I'd consider a muted grey-green with red trim or similar.

    I guess black like columbusguy1 suggested, or another dark color. We've traditionally not appreciated black, but could look nice with such detail.

    Still listening to your thoughts on our options! Thanks for your help so far!

  • columbusguy1
    10 years ago

    Adam, the revised Option 2 can't be beat! :)

    Regarding the stucco porch...quirky, but original and somehow it does work with the style. With that, you can forego the screen door, and keep a good coat of marine varnish on the main door. You can't tell from my pic, but my original door is oak with a single long bevelled glass window. Still has the original varnish, but has been covered by a wooden storm/screen door probably since 1915 or so. The screen door has a slightly raised panel in the bottom, and the screen and storm are held in by spiders and cam screws. The screen has two crossbars about 1/2 way up, and the storm has eight lights in two vertical rows of four. I stripped untold layers of black paint from it and it looks like pretty decent oak. My screen door on the back porch came from Lowes in the early 90s, and is falling apart, as is the similar one on the south side of the house. Modern just can't match old work!


    Paint colors are so personal...I opted for period colors on my house, although it was white when I bought it, the original colors were chocolate brown with beige-ivory trim like the house next door. My sash were black originally, but the other popular color for turn of the century was a dark green-black or Indian Red. I could really see your house in something like Olive Drab with Straw trim...check out Roger Moss' Victorian Exterior Decoration for the authoritative work on color choices for houses before the 1940s.

    This post was edited by columbusguy1 on Wed, Jul 24, 13 at 4:28