First, you are making a HUGE mistake using the potty pads. When was the last time you saw a Wolf (dogs closest cousin)use a potty pad?

You need to pick a system, any system and stick with it. I have posted one on the thread labeled "housebreaking puppy" that has been successful for lots of humans and their dogs.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Good luck!

SG

I'm assuming you mean he's going on the bedding, such as blankets, etc?
I think he's just doing what male puppies do. In all the puppies I've owned and fostered, the females would pee on the designated area but some of the males often preferred the clump of bedding, especially if they were in crates.

The best you can do right now is to feed and water him before you leave and then take him for play time or a walk so that he'll eliminate before being crated. But, 4 hours is a long time! Just be glad he's pooing on the pad! :)

I don't know how large your pup is, but for small breeds I found using a collapsible pen better for handling puppies when I had to leave the house. I kept one half covered with newspaper and the other section held their bedding. Even with 4 puppies in the pen they always used the paper, never the bed, for their business.

So he has room in the crate for a bed and potty pad? It sounds like there may too much room in the crate?

I wouldn't put anything in the crate and the crate should be just large enough so he is comfortable, but not so large he feels like he can pee over there and then lay down over here...

I have to agree with getting rid of the potty pad and that the crate may to to large. I have used crates with both of our puppies and it is just large enough for them to lay in. The youngest pup is 3 1/2 months old and I do put an old towel in the crate for her to lay on. I only put the towel in the crate once she hadn't had any accidents in it for 2 weeks. Our 8 month old pup has never had an accident in her crate from day 1. You do get lucky once in a great while. LOL

Good luck, Linda

Thanks for all the help. I agree with the not using the potty pads for him but I put him in a small crate that was just big enough for him to lay in for an hour and he still goes in it. It's like he doesn't care whether he lies in it or not. He was like this from the day that I got him. Should I not put any bedding in it at all?

Congrats on getting a puppy, I would spend some time with your new charge outside, if you can spend an hour with him outside before you leave that would be great, interact with him and watch him carefully - when he goes outside (it might take awhile) praise him and use a command - it can be anything you want but you need to be consistant. When he pees - give him a pp comand and when he makes a meado muffin use a command for that - dont make your voice gruff or mean sounding, make it like he just brought you a bag with ten thousand dollar bills in it - this is the easiest way to trian a pup to go outside. The more time you spend with him outside the better, good luck

Yes, definitely take all the bedding out of his crate. I'll also second the collapsible pen, or even better yet a covered dog run in a protected (from kids, etc) area in your yard. The ideal thing is if you can set up an indoor/outdoor kennel and teach him to use a doggy door. The inside part is small. That encourages him to go outside to go. But barring that, the pen is great.

As you can see, you are getting lots of advice, most of which I agree with.

Getting advice can be confusing, for you and your dog. That is why I suggested a system, write it down so you can follow it until there are no accidents in the crate or anywhere else. This will prevent the confusion for both of you, and your pup will know that you are taking care of it's needs because you are doing a repetitive thing each day.

Without this, you will probably not be successful in the potty department. It is a huge amount of work and commitment. You may need to tweak what is not working exactly right, not all dogs are the same, not all dogs "get it" right away. Some dogs are successful initially, and then stake a step or two back. It really depends on how you approach things and how your pup is put together.

When training a pup, or any dog, you should keep in mind three issues before dog can start to earn unsupervised freedom. *Teething *Chewing *No accidents, anywhere for at least 9 months. These three issues are critical to the dog and you. They must be dealt with and corrected. They are the foundation for building other behavior.

Good luck!

SG

Spiritual Gardener wrote this on another thread, and I am cutting and pasting it here: (First note was specific to the original post and may not apply here)

I do think it is very important for you to pick a system and stick with that, rather than switch. Switching will only confuse you and your pup.
Here is a step by step method that worked for me. It also has worked for others. I did do a cut and paste thing, but modified it to your issue.

1. First you need to realize that you are starting to miss or push the edge for prime potty training time for your pup. Also, as I found out, not all dogs are the same in this category. Having said that, you need to start treating pup like it is 2 months old. Dig into pups background and try to find out if it was traumatized. If it came from a pound or rescue league, there is a possibility that it was. Not good for any dog, especially one that is a pup and simply does not know much in potty habits etc.

2. Crate training is essential when trying to house train your pup. If this is an issue, put an old sheet or blanket over the crate. When pup starts to whine or do something you donÂt approve of, LIGHTLY (you donÂt want to scare pup into next year)tap on the crate and firmly say STOP. This command will also help you when your dog is getting into mischief. ItÂs direct and to the point, it stops the pup and it will associate the command with the crate noise. When pup starts to go indoors, you must get itÂs attention so it will stop. If that means using a loud voice, then so be it. NEVER HIT THE DOG OR RUB ITÂS NOSE IN IT. THIS WILL ONLY DAMAGE YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR DOG, PLUS, IT DOESNÂT KNOW WHY YOU ARE DOING THIS. Sorry I yelled, but this seems to be a common thing some people do, and it's useless.

MOST dogs wonÂt go in their crate. If pup does, for a few days, do not put any blankets on the floor. This should cure that problem. Because you are treating your pup like it is 2 month old, you need to supervise it every second it is not crated. Using a leash when it is out is also very important. You can easily grab the pup and take it out when you need to. Crating unless you can watch pup every second will allow you complete control. If you can't catch pup in the act when itÂs doing something wrong, scolding is useless. Pup simply won't know why you are mad.

When crating while you are away, try playing soothing music. All dogs love this, especially pups. It keeps them calm.

3. When pup is crated, the instant it comes out, take it outside. Get pup used to the words "go pee and go poop". Praise pup like it is the best dog in the world when it does something. Then give it a treat (boiled chicken liver is best, dogs crave it). Soon, pup will associate doing itÂs thing with a yummy treat. You also need to go very heavy on the praise and treats when pup does anything you approve of (that means, peeing and pooping on regular walks, drinking water, sitting, just laying around, anything that will reinforce positive behavior).
You also need to start taking pup out about once every 15-20 minutes (gradually increased after a few weeks)after the initial trip directly out of the crate. If it doesn't do anything, that's fine, if it does, do the praise and treat thing.

4. Pups drink huge amounts of water. In theory yours should be able to hold it for (one hour for each month). In reality, if pup has been playing, it will gulp down lots of water, and just won't be able to hold it for that long. After pup drinks, keep an eye on it. Take it out in about 5-10 minutes and offer it relief. Soon pup will go to the door when it need to go out.

Consistency is the key to all of this. You need to plan on excessive praise and treats when you are house training so pup will associate yummy treats with doing itÂs thing.
5. Daily walks twice a day (about 20-30 minutes each in the same area) are essential for dogs. Walking gets things moving, dogs love it and it gives them something to look forward to. Try and feed pup close to the walks. Never free feed unless your vet says to. Pups have a high metabolism. Soon after it eats or drinks, it will need to go out.

My pup was 4 months when I got her and didn't know anything. After two months of not being able to get the problem under control, my vet dug into her background. Because she was dropped beside a road with her litter mates, then taken to a pound, then moved to another pound (long story), she was traumatized and completely missed out on any type of house training. I was forced to do what I described and got it under control after about 4 months.

Lastly. Your pup won't be considered house trained unless it has no accidents for at least 6 months! Also, as I learned, there is a HUGE difference in a dog that is 4-6 months old and one that is 9-10 months old. They grow inside and out. Once they reach 9-10 months, their bladders are larger and able to hold it longer.

Well, I guess I'm a softie, but for a pup that is 9 weeks of age I wouldn't take the bedding away. If you apply the above rule........ " Pups drink huge amounts of water. In theory yours should be able to hold it for (one hour for each month)"........then there's no way your pup can go for 4+ hours without an accident, so why force him to lie in it.

When you're home, work on taking him outside more often.
What breed, or mix, is he?

Thanks again for all the advice. So I took all his bedding away and put him in a smaller crate just big enough for him to be in comfortably but he pee'd and poo'd everywhere. When I got home I felt like crying for him it broke my heart. I was gone for 3 hours. I can't do that again to him though. Is it really that big of a mistake for me to be putting a potty pad in with him just till he is a little older? I'm really stuck here because I think that we are doing an excellent job at everything else it's just this one thing. I understand how to potty train him to go outside I know that it's all about consistancy and a schedule I take him out constantly and I am home for all the day and just work a few hours at night. He is doing a great job at going outside. Does anyone have any other advice to help him from stop peeing on his bed. It might be the best to take his bedding away but I just can't do it that way like I said it made me so sad to come home and see him like that. He is an English Bulldog. He is so sweet and such a good boy, just this one thing.

I think you'll have to find what works for you and your dog. IMO, not every rule works for every dog and there's often trial and error involved.
You could try a pen, or you could go back to the setup you had before and just expect wet blankets when you get home.

I'm beginning to think he has gotten used to the larger crate and thinks it's OK to poo and pee there. Moving him to the smaller crate complicated things since he continued with his usual routine but without the extra room he had no choice but to step and sleep in it.
Some dogs don't like this and won't do it a second time, but I've seen those that don't care and will continue the behavior. My neighbor had a Wheaten Terrier that would always pee in his crate. Luckily, as he matured the behavior disappear.
I assume you're not leaving food and water available to him while you're gone?

From what I've read/heard Eng. Bulldogs can be difficult to train, both in obedience and potty training, so keep that in mind while dealing with this issue.

Poor little guy......I can just picture how he must have looked, and felt, when you returned! :(

Below is one type of enclosure I was referring to. The site also has larger wire-panel pens.

I truly do understand how you feel about your dog. That said, you really need to do what is best for all involved. If you do not proceed in a way that will start to build a good foundation for positive behavior, later on you could very well find yourself in a situation where you will have to back up and completely start all over.

It is nothing unusual for this type of thing to be happening, even with somewhat older dogs introduced into a household. They are trying to find their way, they are scared, they really know nothing, especially at this young age.

You really do have your hands full here. A nine week old pup is very much like an infant, completely dependant. You also need to consider that having a dog this young is completely different than having one that is 4 or even nine months. Everything you do now is going to have either a negative impact or a positive one.

You feel sorry for the dog, and that is natural. Personally, if you have not had experience with dogs, I think it was a huge error for someone to allow you to adopt him. There are so many things that you need to know.

You really do need to dig in and consider how you want this dog to develop. Lots of people get into trouble with dogs (and kids) because they feel sorry for them, and they don't want to do the right thing. Consider that you want the dog to be house trained, be over teething and have chewing under control, by nine short months from now.

Patience, and tons of it are required here. You will get frustrated, everyone does, but as the dog grows older, things will progress and fall into place, only if you do the right thing. Consider that the dog is very small, inside and out. His bladder and other internal parts just have not fully developed yet. Because of this, shortly after he eats and drinks, take him out. Set a timer for about 15 minutes. If he does something, praise him and give him a very small treat. If he does nothing, ignore him and take him out again shortly after. Timing is critical here. As the dog gets older, you can increase the time after eating an drinking, very gradually.

Make sure he relieves himself before bed time. You also need to ask your vet about limiting water and food for a while, especially at night. Tell the vet that you are putting pup on a schedule and you need help with this. Pups have a very high metabolism and what goes in usually comes out very quickly.

SG

I understand how frustrating this is. I got a Beagle/Cocker mix on Christmas day & I didn't think he was ever going to potty train! He was only about 8 wks. old when I got him, he'll be 5 months old on Easter Sunday & has finally gotten the hang of things. Although, there is still the occasional slip-up... Which I expected since I've trained 3 dogs (all different breeds) and they always have an accident after I think they're "trained".

Anyway, it was like one day, it just clicked in his mind & he thought, "Oh, OK, this is what I'm supposed to do!" Every since he's been doing great 98% of the time.

I was starting to wonder if my pup would ever potty train or if we'd have to make him into an outside dog... I sat & cried one day b/c of it. But, like I said, now everything's great... Just give it time.

Make sure you go overboard w/ praise if you ever come home & he hasn't pottied in his crate... I'm sure I sounded like a complete lunatic when I was praising my puppy, but hey, whatever works! Good luck!

Thanks mc_hudd. You're right I need to just give it time and he'll learn. He is doing everything else good, like going outside and not peeing on the floors indoors. Trust me when he goes in his crate I am gonna throw a party for him, haha. I also have a bull mastiff and training her was a breeze. She was a fast learner and she got everything right away and barely had any accidents. She hasn't had one since she was 4 months. He's a smart little man and he'll figure it out. Thanks everyone for the advice.

I would just like to say to spirtual gardner that I take offense to the fact that you say it was an error for someone to adopt my pup to me. I am very confident about the home that I provide for my animals. Just because I am having a hard time with one thing does not mean that I am not capable of properly training and taking care of a dog. I have a bull mastiff who is now 1 year and I would hands down say that she is one of the best dogs I have ever know. She stopped any bad habits she had by 4 months. Never once pee'd in a crate or chewed anything of mine. I am not worried that my little man is going to in any way be any different than she is I was just looking for some quick advice. He already understands to go outside it's just when I'm not there that he is having problems in his bed. If 9 months is the norm for having all bad habits gone then I think we are doing a great job.

Sorry I offended you, but in your original post you did not indicate that you had any experience with dogs.

I can't tell you how many people I have encountered who are in your situation with no experience, and they are clearly in over their head. Not good for the dog or it's humans. Lots of dogs wind up in a pound or worse because of poor judgment on both sides of an adoption.

I agree that one day everything will just "click" in your dogs head, and he will "get it". I have a client I recently trained that's a four month old pup and he "got it" in 3 days. My personal latest addition, also 4 months old took 6 months. This is a very long time, only after tons of work, frustration and digging into dogs past (she was traumatized before I cam along, I'm STILL dealing with that) did I get her trained.

SG

I definately agree with you spiritual gardner a lot of people adopt dogs for all the wrong reasons or just don't understand all the time and work you have to put into them. I have never understood how someone could so easily just walk away from an animal that is part of their family. My dogs are like my kids and my life would never be complete without them. I understand your concern because a lot of people do make the wrong choices.

I'll just add one other thing,

I all of my dealings with potty issues (I think I've seen and smelled it all), I have never really gotten frustrated. My latest dog that took 6 months to train was the biggest challenge, and I was more frightened than anything. Nothing I did was working, even suggestions from other trainers and two vets were for naught.

I was really forced to re-think my whole concept about house training a dog, that's how I came up with my system. It's very basic, easy to understand, and if something is not going well, you just back up and start all over only proceed slower.

Keep us posted! Post a photo!

SG

I don't necessarily agree with you on this one Spiritual. Everyone has to start somewhere. I don't think all dog owners have to have experience before they can adopt. That would eliminate a lot of potential good adopters... and if the same were true for people, no one would be allowed to have children. [not that I would be opposed to a competency hearing for some people as parents, ;-) ]

I think if the dog owner is here asking questions then good for them...

I do get frustrated with the owners who post a question, and when given some good advice, they tend to make excuses why they can't do this and they can't do that...

Hey spiritual gardner, thanks again for all the advice. We are making some progress with the bed. He is doing so great going outside though. He only had one accident on the floor yesterday and none today, so far. For some reason I can't post any photos it is saying the web page is not available. If you have facebook or email I can send you some so you can see the little man.

If I indicated that people who have never had a dog shouldn't have one, that was in complete error.

Of course there are tons of people out there who have no clue what it really takes to have a dog, and have all of the qualifications. I personally know of a situation, newly weds who rescued one at four months, and had no clue what to do. They are just very loving people who had a wonderful home for a dog. It's working out great.

BUT I do agree that some humans are just to hard headed to listen to the right way of training a dog. They have it in their head that it should be a certain way, and that's it until they see that progress is not being made, and they just tolerate what is going on no matter what the bad behavior may be. This can also lead to dogs being either abandoned or winding up at a pound or back at one.

Potty issues are one of the MAJOR problems lots of people just don't seem to grasp, even though it is a very simple process. The key is to figure out why what you are doing, is not working.

I know of another person who has had dogs for about 5 years, she is a very loving person, but her dogs are completely out of control, ruling the house, peeing and pooping all over the place. I asked her why she was permitting this, and she said she just couldn't discipline the dogs because she thought it was cruel.

SG

Ive had dogs for many years.
I have never crate trained a dog in that time.
I also never put paper down or pads as this will confuse a dog the wether its ok to toilet in doors.
See your pup chewing something he shouldnt take him away from it and promptly give something he can chew.
Always take your pup out for the toilet after play, meals on waking and first thing in the morning and last thing at night.
Some pups will mess in doors more if they become distressed about being alone. If u have to leave for a few hours maybe someone else can come in to toilet the puppy and give a little company.
I currently have a 11wk old pup and he is almost house trained already. Only the odd wee at night only now.
Catch your pup weeing sternly say no and take him straight outside. When he does go outside give lots of praise.
Using these methods i have house broken all of my dogs by 4mths old.
Clean areas that are messed using bilogical washing liquid as this is one of the few things that will remove the smell from the dog smelling where they have been. (keep pup out of way whilst doing so)

Spiritual_garden, in your first comment you spoke of a link for training but I was unable to find it. I am having the same "pottying in the bed" problem with my male pup and would be interested in the link for training.

My 9 week old puppy has gotten pretty good with pooping on her pee pad but will pee more on her bed then the pads. I have a play pen set up with her crate in one corner, play area with bed in another, then her food and potty area are also in separate corners. At night when I take her out if her crate and set on the pads she will pee on them but after she eats or drinks she will usually choose to pee on her bed. Why? And how do I stop it?

How often overnight do you get up and take your pup outside? How often during waking hours?

My vet said I'm not allowed to take my puppy outside till she is 16wks old she is 11wks now during the day she will potty on the pee pads and I get up all night with her but she still pees on her bed in the crate

Not even outside in your yard? Never heard of so restrictive regimen.

carrie, i suspect what your vet means is that you should not take your puppy out to public places like pet stores, home depot, dog parks, etc. until she is fully vaccinated, there is always a chance of her coming into contact with parvo which can be deadly. at 16 weeks, she will be fully vaccinated and then you can take her places like that (although i suggest you stay away from dog parks). until then, i would think it would be perfectly fine to take her out in your own yard as long as you don't have a lot of stray dogs wandering by. ask your vet if it's ok.

as for peeing in her crate, perhaps the crate is too big which allows a pup to be able to pee at one end and sleep at the other. if that's the case, either get a smaller crate or section off the one you have to make it smaller. normally, dogs do not like to potty where they sleep.

She said no because of all the stray animals in my neighborhood and pixie isn't fully vaccinated that is why she said that I will get a smaller crate maybe that is why thank you

I also suspect that what Ninapearl said is actually the message your Vet was sending - at least check with he or she! You should be whisking your pet out at frequent intervals and taking her outside to pee and poo. (Not to HD nor Dog Parks - but maybe to a corner of your back yard.

If you are going to prevent the dog from being trained, then don't complain that the dog is not trained.

This is gonna sound silly but the dog has a true case of claustrophobia. Sounds crazy, but Japanese Chin was this way. If she got locked in anywhere she would s*$# herself. I've kennel trained dogs, and my little Chin was pretty much treated like a big dog with the rest of my big dogs (you know, each around 100 lbs. She was 9 lbs when wet.)

Another potential problem, his kennel is not being respected by 'young' family members. All dogs need a place to retreat and the kennel training should be reinforced that way. Even as far as keeping a sheet over it that covers the top and two sides to give it a den feel. Make sure young family members respect the space to ensure doggie feels secure and will use it naturally instead of feeling stressed from being locked in.

Another potential problem is instead of a open bowl of water have a water bottle. Also put up water bowl 45 mins. prior to kenneling to help with bladder control.

If all else fails consult a vet. Sometimes, wetting the bed is a sign of serious underlying issue