I feel this is definitely a case of a small dog protecting itself. Small dogs rarely put up with the abuse from kids that many large dogs allow.

A for example: take a look at petfinder.com and you'll see how many of the small dogs up for adoption come with the recommendation that they go only into homes with older, or no, children. Many nip when over-handled and often become nervous around the quick, sudden movements of children.

I think you're wise to get him out of their home.

I would absolutely rescue this poor dog. And I do mean rescue. To quote you ~ "He is home alone most days in a crate the majority of the time. "

And when he's not alone and crated, he has a child punching him.

This is a terrible existence. It makes me so mad, I want to bite that kid AND his parents. They KNOW their son does this, yet don't do anything about it? Oh, I forgot, they decided to kick the DOG out. Sheesh.

When you have the doggie safely and happily at your home, I would be *extremely* vigilant when the boy comes over. He will just punch the dog again, and probably more, to "get back" at the dog for biting him.

It's a very sad situation. I third the vote for taking the dog.

I agree it does sound like the dog was reacting to a bad situation where it felt threatened or was in pain. Even the sweetest, docile dog has boundaries.

If the punching was routine thing, it was only a matter of time until it crossed the line and one of them got hurt.
Teaching kids to interact with animals respectfully is so important to both their and the animal's safety.

It will be a very lucky little dog to get a 2nd chance. :)

I agree with the others. Most small dogs are not very tolerant of abuse. They can't afford to be. I think the dog will be fine with you and he is a lucky boy to be able to escape his present home and go to someone he knows who cares about him.

I raised three sons and I know what a handful boys can be. However, my children were never allowed to abuse our dogs and three year old children are old enough to understand the proper way to treat them. It's a shame your grandson's parents won't teach him and I hope you can have an effect on him. He will form lifelong attitudes based on what he's taught while he's little.

I work for a shih tzu rescue and you wouldn't believe how many dogs we get in because people have toddlers and they let them abuse the dogs, then are shocked when the dog growls or nips at the kids. So all of our dogs have a posting of "no children" because we won't adopt dogs out to families with children under the age of 9. Take the dog if you can and give it a loving home - he deserves better!

Thank gawd there are people like you in this world..I hope they dont decide to get another dog...so many peple do.

I feel sorry for both the dog and the boy - his parents aren't doing their job protecting either one. Poor dog for being abused and poor child for being bitten. Shame on the parents.

Yes, please take the poor dog.

I wanted to reply, because we have had to put a dog down for biting. It sounds to me, though, that your son's Shih Tzu deserves a second chance. I think you're right that it was an isolated incident and, if you are sure that you can properly protect him at your house, I wouldn't expect it to happen again.

In our case, I felt that our dog bite was unprovoked, and didn't trust the dog not to bite again.

Prior to that dog, we had a dog who once snapped at a toddler who accidentally fell on her while she was sleeping. It was the only time she'd ever done anything like that, and we definitely didn't consider giving her away - she was a very sweet and tolerant dog.

Good for you for taking the Shih Tzu, and for correcting your grandson. Hopefully you can teach him to play with a dog nicely - it is dangerous when children do not understand how to treat animals, as they are likely to encounter them at their friends and relatives houses, as well.

This overall situation should be considered UNACCEPTABLE by all humans involved. It needs to be fixed. Anything less, is UNACCEPTABLE.

SG

We'll be reading about this kid in 15 years after he beats or kills his wife.

There is nothing wrong with the dog, but there is something wrong with the kid's parents. Similar to dogs, children behave according to how they are trained.

From your description, it does sound like an isolated incident, I would take the dog. And I would lecture my son on how he is raising his children.

You asked "Do dogs turn on humans"... no I don't believe they do. I've seen some horribly abused animals who turn out to be the most loving creatures ever.

This is definitely a case of a small dog trying to protect itself. It probably growled at the 3 year old to stop and when he didn't, the dog did the only thing he could and that was to bite him.

Little dogs face a very big world and as others have said, often do not make good pets for people with small children.

I hope you will be able to take the dog and if so, whenever your grandson comes over, I would keep the two of them separated.

As others have mentioned, I think it would be wise and kind of you to take this dog. Punching a dog at 3 years old is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE! What do his parents say about this behavior???? Punching a small dog like a shi-tzu is ABUSE!!!

I have two kids, 2 and 5. From DAY ONE they have been taught to be kind and respectful of animals. When they were old enough to crawl and pet the cats and dogs, they were shown the right way to do it. And, I never, ever leave any animals alone with the children.

THANKS TO ALL who responded! I talked to my son this morning and he is in hopes of keeping the dog. His wife is the one who defends the child as mother's do . She has not wanted the dog around since the children have come along. I am sure the dog senses her dislike for him , nonetheless, he has been a faithful and loyal pet to all of them. I definitely have been giving my Grandson a good talking to all week about the care and compassion for animals. I have reprimanded him several times when I have witnessed him smacking at, punching at and generally trying to abuse my own two pups. Beyond that I don't know what else to do except try to urge my son that the best thing for the Shih Tzu would be to come here to stay with us.I have the children AND the dog here with me again today and as I have said before he is a sweet, sweet dog that deserves a lot of love and attention. I try not to feel sorry for him as I don't want him to sense that weak energy from me- but it is tough to do.You are all so caring and kind for responding to my pleas for guidance on this and I will keep the forum updated on how things turn out.

Why on earth does your son insist on keeping that poor dog?

so it can be tortured until it finally inflicts damage that requires medical intervention?

Doctors & hospitals are required by law to report dog bites.

Keeping that dog in that environment guarantees it a miserable life ending in euthanasia.

Please keep the dog.

& that family needs counselling;
as others have said, this behavior at the ripe old age of 3 is a precurser of violent behavior throughout life, & the parents aren't doing anything about it.

I think it's great that you are talking to your grandson, and trying to get him to understand how to be nice to animals. BUT, what are his parents going to do when he goes home??? Are they going to keep reinforcing things? If his mother doesn't care for the dog, maybe she doesn't care that her son is punching it. Since she wants the dog "out" and has wanted it gone since she had her children, maybe SHE needs someone to talk to her!!!! Your DIL needs to realize that she could be setting her son up to violent in the future, and not just towards animals. Abusing animals is one of the first signs of a serial killer (I'm not kidding). Sounds like they are not taking this as seriously as they should. If my 3 year old was punching a small dog, I would be beside myself!!! Maybe you should print this thread out and have them both read it.

My daughter in law is insisting he be gone from their home for the incident that took place

Personally, I'd get rid of the kid.

Kidding, kidding. Mostly. But seriously, the parents here are not the doing their job as far as teaching their kid how to behave around animals. Somehow I'm picturing mommy and daddy ineffectually telling little Bobby-punches-a-lot, "Honey, you need to stop pestering the doggie. Okay? Don't touch him now. Please, honey?" And if the child can not stop punching the dog, then THEY NEED TO REMOVE THE DOG OR CHILD FROM THE SITUATION. It's really that simple. If they can't figure that simple fact out then they're morons, and shouldn't have pets or kids.

Please tell your son that it would be in the best interest of both his son and the dog if you took the dog. That kind of situation is not good for either one of them. It will just escalate into a very bad situation for both if they are not separated.

I had 2 small dogs before my DS was born and he learned very early they were not stuffed toys, but real live animals with feelings and he needed to treat them as such. I never had a problem with them huring him or visa versa. It would appear that your GS is not getting that kind of instruction at home.
Clare

This story is going to have an unhappy ending for child and dog, unless the dog is saved from this horrible. situation.

Also: children who do this to animals usually do it because there is abuse around them that they are emulating, or they are disturbed. Sorry to be blunt, but there is something going on, and the animal abuse is a sign of trouble.

I hope that you will do your best to take that doggie ASAP and give him the happy life that he deserves.

We raised our sons to be gentle with and kind to our animals. In all their years of growing up, we never had a dog bite or cat scratch. Your DS and DIL are not doing right by their son or that poor dog.

I agree with Elly. The kid is punching the dog because 1) he sees other people punching things and 2) his momma lets him. Both the kid and the dog need to be rescued and rehabilitated.

With 5 younger siblings, I know that small children can be violent (kick, punch, etc) without ever having seen anyone do the same. But LETTING the child continue the behavior is a mistake.

I've seen small boys try to harm my dog before. Once we were at an art fest in a local town, walking around. A teeny little boy ran up to my dog and tried to kick him - for no reason. The parents had horrified looks on their faces, like "what the?" I'm sure they had never seen him do such a thing before. They did stop him and reprimand him.

Another time I was at a local park, and there was a busload of children there, with teachers and some parents. I steered clear of the kids, but one boy ran up to us and started throwing stones at my dog, laughing. A teacher grabbed him and reprimanded him.

Children can exhibit these behaviors out of the blue, so I'm not going to point fingers at the parents. But the parents need to train the child out of violent behaviors before they escalate.

Two words about the kid: JEFFREY DAHMER.

This is how he started, that child needs mental help immediately.

Good grief! As if parents and grandparents don't worry enough, I don't think they need to be told their child is a potential serial killer! Little boys can be rough. They need to be taught that animals are living creatures who have feelings just like they do. If not, their natural tendencies to jump around and throw things and be physical can translate into abuse when allowed around animals. This child's parents just need to put their foot down to his behavior. I have a feeling he's a bit out of control in other ways, too, but that doesn't mean he's on his way to eating people. Sheeesh!

Gina, the incidents you describe appear to be isolated actions that were disciplined. The OP is describing a continued pattern of behavior that is not being disciplined correctly.

Of course the dog was defending himself, and of course you should get him out of there! My dog, one of the toy breeds, was rescued from a shelter - he'd never have been adopted as the people who dumped him there said he was a biter. Alot of times the smaller breeds are "fear biters" and only do it when stressed. With my dog, in the very first month I had him, he nipped at my 5 yr old niece who was taking a toy from him, but since that, I have had NO incidents. It has been my experience that these smaller dogs get VERY stressed around young active children, not to mention an unsupervised child abusing the animal...

Sounds to me like this was not the dogs fault, and I would love to hear that you got him out of there. Good Luck!

Also, since your son now wants to keep the dog, you should know that if the dog bites the kid again and he must be treated for the bite, it may be reported and the dog will be taken and euthanized. Not to mention the kid could be scarred for life or lose an eye etc.

Try to persuade your son to let you take the dog. His wife hates it anyway, what kind of life does the dog have?

Would your son agree to your keeping the dog on a temporary basis? I find it difficult to believe he wants to keep the dog knowing the wife hasn't wanted it since the children were born.
I can understand his bond with it since he owned it before he was married, but he needs to set priorities before someone gets hurt. It could be that the dog may have been an issue even before they got married........and the wife is not willing to understand his love for the dog. Maybe jealousy??

Any chance your grandson does this as a way of getting attention? It appears (thru the web!) that he has learned when he does this he gets a response from the adults.......doesn't matter if it's negative or positive.....as long as it's a response.

This may be grasping at straws, but instead of discipline, I'd first make him take a time out in a selected space and when everyone is calm, sit down with him and explain how animals feel pain just as he does.
Do the children have supervised play........or are they on their own. Maybe a one-on-one activity with him, along with planned playtimes of games and artwork with his sibs will help with his frustration.
It's also possible this child feels the dog is getting more attention than he does, and doesn't have any other way to express it except to attack the dog.

I feel very sorry for the dog. What a miserable life he has with people who hate him , a brat who abuses him ,and in a crate all day. Give the poor dog a chance. Your grandson needs counseling , seriously. I raised two kids and watched two grandkids grow up . All four had animals since day one and NEVER did anything but gently pet them. Maybe once or twice did a cat's tail or dog's paw get stepped on , but punching an animal???? That's a serious character flaw and I think this kid will be trouble/.

I know he's your grandson but from what you have said, there are no consequences for his horrible behavior. Your son may have had the dog all these years but he needs to give you or someone who will give it a good home the dog. Punching the dog is abuse plain and simple. It is wrong.
If you can help the dog then you need to as it's quite apparent the dog will get injured or die if left with your son.
I know you are trying to be considerate of your son but it's time for you to do something and not just stand by to see what happens next. If that were my grandson, the first punch would have been a good talking to and time out. If done again, I'd have flattened his butt, sat him in a chair and told him it was wrong to hurt the dog. I would then tell him he can't play with the dog. I'd have told my son there are consequences for doing bad as well as good. Give me the dog and take your little mean child home and teach him some manners.
This is a sad situation. I sincerely hope your son will give you or someone the dog. Then, your son and daughter-in-law need to take a hard look at how they are raising their son. If this is your grandson's so called playing, other parents are not going to let their children play with him. If in daycare or preschool, he can be kicked out for his behavior.
Get the dog and if you don't want it, I'll take it.
Lynn

I wanted to update all of the wonderful people on here who responded to my original post.
I completely understand some of the comments about how my Grandson may grow up to be a serial killer and that he will beat his wife etc... Not knowing our family I can understand how this looks to an "outsider". I mostly agree with deb18- I raised 2 boys myself and know they can be rough - even though they have good parental supervision- there are times they use bad judgment and try to play superheroes and use the family dog or cat as a villain. That said I DO NOT in any way condone this behavior and my boys would have received good spankings for touching any animal in a harmful way. That is why my son has this dog to this day- he loves animals. He has stood his ground with his wife all of this time in keeping this little dog as the family pet- this is one of only few battles he has successfully won with her- believe me. He has spent literally hundreds , maybe thousands of dollars on this dog with a skin condition it has.
I asked my Grandson the other day why he hit the dog and his reply was "I was being the HULK"- yes , he is 3 years old and should know better than to hit the dog but in my mind he was probably bored and looking for a playmate. I am in no way trying to justify his actions now people- please understand - he and I have had at least 20 discussions about the incident since it happened and each time I stress very strongly to him how wrong it was no matter what his intentions were. I keep bringing him to the dog who has been spending days with me while I watch the kids- and telling him and showing him the kind and gentle way he needs pet him and I am having almost daily talks with him about how good animals are to have with us and that we should love and cherish them and never , ever use any type of physical force with them - even playing "Hulk" or anything else. Dogs do not play games like we do and I told him about some games that dogs like to play like fetch and frisbee. I have been working my dogs with him to teach them some tricks so he sees how much fun he can have with them .As I previously stated - earlier that week of the incident he was punching at my own two pups.
I have had several discussions with my son about our willingness to take the dog if they decide they no longer will keep him- in the meantime, he is spending his days with me instead of at home in his crate and I can already see his spirit changing. He is getting more lively and even plays a little my two pups. They are shepherd mix pups so they are much bigger than him but yesterday they all 3 were running through the house. We are keeping him for the weekend also since my son and his family are going out of town.
I would love to try and figure out this skin condition he has- his skin is red and blotchy and the fur is rubbed off in many areas. He doesn't seem to scratch any more than normal though. I suggested my son try changing his food and he has been cooking for him - but I think he would get a better , more rounded diet with a good premium food. I feed my pups Canidae and that is what I have been giving him while he is here. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Thank you all again for your concern and care for this sweet little dog- believe me, I am doing all I can to ensure his safety and well being.

Has he been seen by a vet? The skin condition could be a bacterial or fungal infection and change of diet would not have any effect on it.

Yes, annz - he has been seen by a vet many times for the skin condition -he has been on numerous medications, creams and ointments- he used to scratch and lick himself a lot but that has ceased , thankfully. But like I said his skin is really red- there are no sores or anything but it does look irritated. It is not all over him either just in large patches like under his chin downward to his belly. His fur and skin on his back is fine- so mainly on his underside is the best way to put it.

I think that you're doing a good job with the situation with the Shih Tzu and your grandson.

About doggy's skin - we had a Great Dane who had a skin condition. We tried special diets and the like, and it continued. We wound up giving her just one prednisone pill each day, and that fixed her condition. The vet said that the dosage wasn't enough to make a difference - she was huge at 160 pounds - but it was enough to make the difference for her. I didn't like giving that to her indefinitely since the drug is powerful and has side effects, but wanted her to be comfortable. She lived to the ripe old age (for a giant breed) of almost ten.

cocooner

Try putting a little Wesson oil on his food every day. My vet said it had to be Wesson oil. Worked like a charm on one of my dogs who would sometimes get red, itchy spots on his belly.

Good luck working with your grandson. Since your son refuses to give up the dog, I think you're doing the next best thing. Someone has to step in on the dog's behalf.

Sher

If you are seeing any other problems along with the skin issue such as anal gland problems, ear infections, loose stool etc. it may be a food allergy. But since you describe it as just on the underside of the dog I suspect it is a contact allergy. He could be allergic to something he is laying on such as a wool carpet or cedar filled bed. You can test for environmental allergies with a blood test.

He hasn't done a true elimination diet to rule out a food allergy. If your son is willing to cook for him I highly suggest you do this.

I may have solved the allergy problem. I was reading that red dye #40 is a common allergy with Shih Tzu's. I have been feeding him Canidae at my house for almost 2 weeks and his skin seems to be clearing up. Last night we went to a get together and took him with us and after dessert I placed my plate down on the floor for him to lap up the last little tiny, tiny bits of my "red" jello dessert not thinking about the red dye #40 being present. It was a very small amount-just basically licking the plate. I noticed in the night he was scratching and licking himself more than he had in awhile. Then I put it together and ran to get the jello box and sure enough it contains red dye #40. He does have a lot of ear infections and gland problems as well as the loose stools- I am pretty confident that it is solved. I am going to watch every single thing he eats including treats that he not be exposed to it anymore and see if he continues to progress nicely.
He seems so happy here - I wish he could stay - it makes me sad that he will have to go home tomorrow- keep us in your thoughts that maybe he will be able to come here to stay forever. I would love to shower him with love and attention for the rest of his life.

Could you tell your son that now that you've taken care of the dog you've fallen in love with him and want to give him a home? You have two other pups and taking care of a third would be no problem...or you think you have solved his allergies and would like to keep him a bit longer to be sure you're right and save your son the trouble of having to figure it all out....

If your son and his family had a good time without the dog perhaps that would help you make your case...perhaps your son would agree to a longer trial period without the dog and see how he and his family like it...that way things between your son and his wife might be smoother...

Just my 2 cents. BTW, bless you for taking such good care of the little fellow, and for educating your grandson.

He went home on Monday- my son said he seemed to look healthier and had a lot of energy. He said he climbed the stairs all by himself for the first time- He is coming here everyday (for doggy day care) and I guess that is the best I can hope for. I sent him home with new food and instructions on how I have been feeding and asked that my son take him and get his ears checked since they are absolutely "crusty"- I tried cleaning them myself with a homemade solution recipe I found on the internet. I was afraid to be too invasive as to not damage the ears. His ears have a foul odor to them and from what I have read that is an indication of infection/unhealthy ears. I am going to continue to monitor him and make sure things keep improving.
I found a great book at the library to share with my Grandson called "Tails are not for pulling" By Elizabeth Verdick. I highly recommend it for anyone with small children and pets of any kind. It is really cute and the story is from a pets point of view.
Thank you anita22 for your suggestions but at this point I hesitate to push the issue of keeping the little guy. I get to see him Mon-Fri and may get to keep him when they need to go on trips and such.

jules, thanks for the update. I'm so glad the little guy is perkier and is coming to see you every day. You sound like a fantastic father, grandfather, and animal lover -- your family is lucky to have you!

Thanks anita22 for the compliment- but I am a mother and grandmother- oh -and Animal lover (you got that part right)ha!

sorry, jules, from your name I thought you were masculine....that will teach me to make assumptions!

Just wanted to post a short update.
My Grandson is doing great with the dog- he started pre-school and seems to have a lot less aggression lately. My Son asked me to keep the dog overnight tonight since they were going to be out all evening and as they were leaving my Grandson asked why they weren't taking his doggie ? I told him that he was spending the night with me and that I would give him lots of love until he got back tomorrow to see him. He has been very gentle with him and I think all of the aggressive issues are behind us. The dog spends every week day with me and is doing well. My Son is now feeding him Canidae and we are in hopes it will help with his skin condition. I am encouraging them to take daily walks with him in the evening although they are a busy young family it is understandable that they can't always get that accomplished. I promised to keep the forum updated about his progress and thank everyone who gave their generous suggestions.

I'm so glad to see the update. It sounds like things have improved considerably for the little dog. Good food, more interesting days, and two homes which equals twice the love. :)

And it's wonderful your grandson has made such progress. You've got to very proud watching him now. It's a valuable life lesson to respect another living creature.

I've been working through it with my brother's kids when they come to visit. We've been showing them how to gently handle our kitty (who is very shy) and to play nicely with our dog (who is very excitable!). Getting everyone to interact peaceably is no small task I've learned.

Another update -
The little guy is going to be permanently living with us starting TODAY !
My son realized that we had grown an attachment to the dog- sees how well he is doing with more social interaction and attention and asked me if I wanted to keep him. He is bringing him by today and he is going to be here with our other 2 dogs from now on.
He gets along great with our dogs and we love having him around. My son knows they have a busy lifestyle and with young children they just don't have the time to devote to a dog. They also recently moved into a new home and have all of the work that goes along with that.
I think everyone involved is going to benefit from this change-

Thanks for the updates. Its great to hear good outcomes.

It was good to hear that the boy seems to learning/improving about the aggression issues, too.

And if your DIL never really wanted the dog, its probably best that he is in your care...

I just now read this thread and was on the edge of my seat. :o) What a great resolution for the dog, and also for you! I am glad your son finally came to his senses and it must be such a relief that your grandson has outgrown his aggressive behavior.

I am very happy to hear that you are taking in this poor dog. He needs a good home and crating, though sometimes necessary, seems cruel to me (when its long periods of time).

My brother had a Golden Retriever with skin problems, don't know exactly what they were, but he spent most of his time in a cage (when he couldn't break out). The vet couldn't figure out what was wrong and eventually they decided to give him away. He was trying to get my parents (who have 2 Sheppard's) to take him in but on chance remark I found a friend at work and her hubby had been discussing getting another dog. They usually have 2 but lost one and were thinking of getting another for a companion. They also only consider Golden Retrievers (its their favorite breed like Sheppard's are for my parents). He was 2 years old when they took him and he went to a great home with 3 kids who were used to dogs and a dog companion as well as an active family that included their pets in their lives. I left but still spoke to her and they never had any skin problems with the dog since they got him.

Long story but the short of it is that I think the skin condition was the result of stress. My best friend had very sensitive skin and it got worse for her when times were stressful in her life and I think the same applies to animals. Watch the rash and see if it doesn't go away by itself in his new, happy home.

As for your Grandson I am not worried about him growing up to be abusive. I think if he saw this behaviour in his home and was rewarded for it or imitating it from someone else then he might learn to deal with things more violently. My concern would be that he would become desensitized to the feelings of other creatures. You're doing a great job in helping correct his behaviour and are providing an example of kindness and compassion that should be shown to all living creatures.

I'm not saying that abusive/violent adults don't sometimes start down that path with cruelty to animals but I'd be more concerned if he was doing that behaviour as a teenager. In high school I remember overhearing a conversation of some teen boys saying they lit firecrackers off in a kitten's face and I turned around and told them I hoped one day someone would do the same thing to them. That they were joking and thinking it was fun was disturbing and those are the kids we need to educate.

I hope the bite your grandson got wasn't serious but I have to say it was educational. I wouldn't want him to need stitches and I'm not saying I'm glad he got bit, but sometimes in life we have to learn things the hard way. It reminded me of an ex's sister who owned a horse. It had it moments when it wasn't nice to her. When it bit her, she bit his ear. When he kicked her, she kicked him back (in a spot he wouldn't forget). I think after that he learned not to bite or kick anymore. Some of the most valuable lessons in life can be learned by experiencing them.

YAY! Glad your son decided to put the dog's needs first and glad you were there to offer him a loving home!

HURRAY! Sounds like a win-win-win situation for everyone.

Best to all.