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pierreone

Stoic dog - how to tell when it's time?

pierreone
16 years ago

We have a 10.5-year-old Great Pyrenees who the vet calls "uber stoic." We've never heard him cry or whimper in pain even once his entire life.

The problem is he has cancer in his nasal passages and an out-of-control secondary infection that is eating away his nose -- open wound is now about 1.5 inches in diameter. We had him on Clavamox but that stopped working and now the vet says it's only a matter of weeks. Vet says we'll just know when it's time to put him to sleep, but we're having a hard time telling.

He still eats some and can go outside to the bathroom on his own, although we had to stop his walks recently because he falls if he stands too long. We have seen him wince when our puppy Pyr accidentally hits his face, but other than that he doesn't show he's in pain. Most of the day he just sleeps.

What do you think determines "when it's time" especially when it's hard to tell if he's in constant pain? We definitely don't want him to live in suffering, but also don't want to put him down too soon.

Thanks.

Comments (11)

  • laurabs
    16 years ago

    I am very sorry you are going through this. I too have had stoic dogs in Siberian huskies, and it does make an owner feel very uncertain about knowing when the time arrives.

    One indication is that he stops enjoying his favorite things. With a husky, that's getting out for a walk now and then, being able to find something palatable, even if it's liverwurst or baby food, snuggle time, or TV time, or whatever the dog's normal pleasures have been. When he stops recognizing his people, when it looks like he's having trouble coping.

    You will know. You will just know.

    And I'm so sorry.

  • cindyb_va
    16 years ago

    pierreone, sorry to hear about your big guy. Earlier this year, I had to put down my companion of 15 years. It is hard, and I hate to disagree with your vet, but your dog may not tell you when it's time.

    What I did was decide that when Hoover failed to enjoy his three favorite things, eating, walking and bossing around my other dog, that would mean it was time.

    But what ended up happening is that I had a friend visit who had not seen Hoover for several months. She could not even bear to look at him, because she had only known him healthy and happy. He never gave up any of his three things. But he was emaciated (which I had never noticed) and his walk was painful (for my friend) to watch, although I had never noticed it myself. She said, almost angrily, "How can you say he is not in pain?!"

    So, I knew it was time. I thought about it for 24 hours and then made the hard decision.It's very hard to be objective with your own pet, but looking back, I realize that my dog was in alot more pain than I was willing to admit, or that my dog was willing to show.

    Maybe you have a close friend or family member that could be more objective than you and help you see your dog more clearly. With my own dog, I was thinking with my heart, but my friend helped me think with my head. That's probably the kind of help you need right now.

    Good luck with your situation! This is never easy, by any means.

  • sc_gardener
    16 years ago

    If they are in obvious pain, or when they can't eliminate by themselves anymore... it is time to go - give them some dignity.

    Just lost our little doggiefriend in April. She died at home - she was never in any distress. Just went to sleep and never woke up. Our first one, had to bring her in, she could not stand up anymore as her hips kept giving out.

    So hard - best of luck to you...

  • emmhip
    16 years ago

    I am going through the same thing with my dog Hooligan. He is blind (SARDS), and recently started having bloody noses. The vet took xrays, and doesn't see anything too remarkable. He is anemic and on steroids for the time being. The next step is a catscan (around $1500)to see if he has a brain tumor/nasal passage cancer. We have decided to make him comfortable, feed him his favorite foods, and see how he does. So far, he's feeling a little better, and hasn't had a bloody nose in since Friday. But, I know it's coming eventually. He's almost 8 years old, so it makes it difficult, because that is still fairly young. He still wags his tail and snuggles with the cats. Sometimes, it really is hard to tell when it's time, or when a dog is suffering.

    Years ago I worked for a Vet clinic and saw many dogs and cats that needed to be put to sleep, but their owners would prolong it, over and over again. Don't get me wrong, I understand why and how hard it is to let go of your family member. But, there does come a time when you need to do the most unselfish thing, and let the dog die with peace and dignity.

  • joepyeweed
    16 years ago

    I would say if he stops eating or can't go outside to go the bathroom anymore, then it probably time.

    Do you have any pain meds for him?

  • bluesibe
    16 years ago

    Pierreone, Gosh I feel for you and for your guy.

    One of my huskies has a form of lupus that eats away at the skin also. His nose is always raw and the nostrils are deteriorating. The only protocol that works for him his alternative medicine. I thought as he got worse I would go to pain killers. But I have made up my mind that if he has trouble breathing, that will be my sign. Of course, what works for me and my boy is not really an answer for you.

    Like your vet said, you will know. I wish you both the best.

    Carol

  • wireweiners
    16 years ago

    For me its when they stop eating for more than a meal or two, stop drinking, pant heavily all the time, and they get sort of a dull look to their eyes, a look that says, I'm ready, please help.
    My 15 yo Catahoula, Katie, gave me a scare Monday. She is arthritic in her hips so I have had her on the Foster & Smith level 3 joint supplement. My young lab had knocked the bottle off the counter and eaten all her pills so Katie hadn't had her supplements for about a week. Sunday evening Katie wouldn't come into the kitchen to eat. She finally tried and then had extreme difficulty negotiating the laminate floor. We grabbed all the throw rugs and made her a path back to her bed. She just lay there panting heavily and refused to eat. I got a Rimadyl down her and decided that this was it. Monday am she was a little better, gave her another Rimadyl Monday pm. By Tuesday pm she was back to her old self. I've order some more joint supplement but I'm thinking I may uses the supplement and the Rimadyl. At her age, giving her the best quality of life is what's important.

  • premier
    16 years ago

    I would not base it on an animal stopping eating. Animals commonly stop eating and start eating again.

    There is no magic answer. Based on what you described, it sounds to me like your dog despite his medical problems is still functioning and has a will to live. Animals have an incredible will to live. When the time is right, you won't have to ask, you will know.

    It just concerns me when people set forth conditions for knowing when the time is right. Every situation is different and should be judged on its own.

  • pierreone
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Thank you all for your thoughts and input.

    We unexpectedly had to put down our 9-year-old female Pyr in January due to surgery complications, but in a way that was almost easier because the decision was basically made for us. She was going to die within hours and we had no choice. This is harder because of the uncertainty.

    I've thought a lot about it today and really don't believe he's at the end quite yet, especially since he can function on his own and is eating. I'm definitely going to call the vet tomorrow to discuss pain meds.

  • premier
    16 years ago

    Sounds like a good idea. Good luck.

  • shroppie
    16 years ago

    I'm so sorry. I'm in a very similiar situation with an Akbash - another livestock guardian - and bone cancer that was confirmed yesterday.

    All these years of making this difficult decision and it never gets any easier :-(