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arichard21

sheetrock - screws or nails?

arichard21
16 years ago

what are the pros and cons of nails and screws for fastening down sheetrock. it seems like there are still ALOT of guys using nails.

Comments (36)

  • User
    16 years ago

    Pro's use nails because they are faster than screws. Plus the fact that hammers do not need batteries or extension cords.

    Screws do not 'pop' ---come loose with seasonal humidity changes like nails can. But screws are more expensive and take longer to install.

  • brickeyee
    16 years ago

    The screw fastening schedule is a little less, and they are a much better fastener.
    Be sure to use a drill-driver designed for drywall installation.
    The nose of the driver makes a correct recess for compound to cover the screw, and drills by depth (NOT torque).
    The nose is adjustable for depth, and once set you just put a screw on the bit and push, with a good push at the end to make the dimple.

  • mightyanvil
    16 years ago

    If you can nail drywall faster than screw it you need a better screw gun and a lesson from a pro.

    Here is a link that might be useful: screws vs nails

  • eal51
    16 years ago

    Without question, drywall screws are superior to nails for all the reasons mentioned.

    A good screw gun, Makita/ Hitachi & etc., is worth the investment.

    Enjoy the journey.

    eal51 in western CT

  • User
    16 years ago

    Actually, for a DIYer, the $5 dimpler that can be purchased in almost all hardware/home improvement stores and chucked in any drill is a better deal. The learning curve and amount of practice needed to operate a drywall screwshooter is high.

    I have both, as a remodeler, and use the dimpler far more for small jobs---three to five sheets of drywall or less.

  • brickeyee
    16 years ago

    "...the $5 dimpler that can be purchased in almost all hardware/home improvement stores and chucked in any drill is a better deal."

    Dill-drivers are geared down to produce the lower speed and torque for repeatedly driving drywall screws.
    If you do not want to pop the $100 or so for a good one (Porter Cable is still about the best) rent one.

  • User
    16 years ago

    What brickeyee says is true, but for a DIYer, my experience shows the dimpler in a cordless drill is much better. And my experience includes teaching several hundred volunteers for HfH how to use both---the dimpler and the screwshooter---I have a well used Milwaukee drywall screwshooter.

    If the screwshooter is not adjusted correctly, it punctures the paper----the worst thing the dimpler does is not fully seat the screw---which can be easily removed and reinserted. The screwshooter also will not easily remove a screw not fully seated, you either have to remove the adjusting collar or use another drill---both can be an extra headache for the DIYer.

    The other problem is the actual handling of the two. The screwshooter requires a different grip than the drill/dimpler----I actually use my smallest two fingers to activate the trigger when using the screwshooter---holding the main body of the tool with my index/second finger and thumb. That takes a bit of practice to master. The reason for that grip is to align hand/wrist/tool/screw in one straight line----something not necessary when using the drill/dimpler. At least for the vast majority of first time dry wall hangers----and even a lot of third or fourth timers.

  • Fori
    16 years ago

    I don't know about the pros, but for me, it's much easier to use screws.

    But then I am a little klutzy...

  • bondrey102
    16 years ago

    Just another thought here...I have replaced lath and plaster walls with sheetrock in several rooms in my older home. I always use screws, agreeing with members above, but I sure do not want to be banging nails when I know there is crackable plaster on the other side of the wall. Bernie

  • amerimat
    16 years ago

    no difference when properly used nail will dop the job, just finished repainting a house which has been remodeled 40 years ago and not a single nail pop out this was on an 1885 era built house second story and up until last month had 3 brick as foundation and no mortear , just laid in the northen california sand. qualified worker is the answer .best luck. amerimat at aol

  • igloochic
    16 years ago

    Our "pro" uses screws. He says it's the only way to go if he dosen't want to hang his head and ignore us in ten years when the nails have begun to pop out (or sooner, given the amount of earthquakes we have here).

  • nikki123_2009
    15 years ago

    Last year, in Northeast NJ an 1870's home was totally renovated and the contractor used nails instead of screws. No formal contract, T&M and a nightmare in the end to say the least. After spending an enormous amount of money on this project, EVERY wall and EVERY ceiling shows nail pops. Some rooms are severely worse than others and there are areas where they didn't use a 2nd coat of mud making it obvious to see their "cutting corners". And nail pops weren't our only issues! Since a few of the ceilings are REALLY bad, my question is: Will the ceilings come down at any point in time from the way they hung the rock? Please advise.

  • mightyanvil
    15 years ago

    I haven't seen a drywall contractor use nails since 1970.

    There is no reason to hold the trigger on a screw gun, just lock the trigger down and hold the back of the gun in the palm of your hand so the screws can go in straight and fast. No hammer could keep up with that method especially on a ceiling.

    It is easy to back out a bad screw if you have a reversible screw gun with an adjustable collar. I've never seen one with a fixed collar but I guess they must exist.

    If you don't want to buy a screw gun you can rent one for about $12 a day. It's a small price to pay for doubling your output. A portable drill is good for 3 to 5 years but a screw gun should last 40 or more years. Mine's almost there.

    Here is a link that might be useful: to drive popped nails in

  • andrelaplume2
    15 years ago

    Hmmm..I thought screws too. We had numerous nail pops when we moved into our home...which was 20 years old. We had a number of them in hall professionally repaired with screws. I also did a few myslef in a bathroom. For whatever reason...it looks like pops again. The screw is still way up in there but the plaster popped away from it. If anyone knows why, I'd love to know!

  • sierraeast
    15 years ago

    You only want to drive the screw in enough to "dimple" but not break the paper. They have inexpensive dimple bits for this unless you have a screw gun that has depth settings. It sounds like you ran the screws in to far.

    Here is a link that might be useful: dimple bit

  • pretzel_logic60
    15 years ago

    For the people with pops using either nails or screws. Even with screws you can get pops, if the house settles a little they'll be pops no matter how old the house. Most new houses were painted white just because of the nail pop issue. I've done my share of repaints and I remember one house that even after I was finished the lady would call me back with more pop issues. I happened to lean against one wall and it moved, the nails weren't tight to the studs, problem solved on that house.

    Another thing, when painting sometimes the moisture will create swelling and where there wasn't a nail pop there is now but that's usually on existing and not new jobs.

    Brian

  • pjb999
    15 years ago

    I love the dimpler, best $10 or so I spent. Works well with a cordless, and you can always gear down. If I do major drywalling I'll consider a screw gun, the sort of thing you could also look out for on sale, or a garage sale.

    Here in British Columbia they seem to recommend nails at the edges and screws elsewhere (breaking the edges perhaps?) but in my experience, screws all over haven't hurt.

    To the poster whose poorly done ceiling is popping, I guess it's possible the ceiling could come down or develop a major sag. If it's textured it might be hard to disguise screw holes, but I guess it's hard to disguise popped nails too!

    It might be worth putting a few screws in to hold it better, but you will probably have to deal with the nails popping a bit more, you'll have to punch them down somehow and patch them. Once done, though, if you've screwed it down it should be ok.

    In Australia as a standard, they always use a drywall glue compound also, and it sticks very well. I would imagine it would reduce popping. I don't know why it's not used in North America, except maybe because of the cold?

  • brickeyee
    15 years ago

    "In Australia as a standard, they always use a drywall glue compound also, and it sticks very well. I would imagine it would reduce popping. I don't know why it's not used in North America, except maybe because of the cold?"

    The glue (mastic usually) makes repairs much more difficult.
    It is a PITA to get hardened mastic off the face of the wood to place a new piece of drywall.

    If I encounter glued drywall, I cut the drywall right beside the stud, add a piece of 2x2 (2x4 ripped in half) screwed to the side of the stud, then attach the patch to the new wood.

  • sierraeast
    15 years ago

    Gluing wallboard isn't allowed in our area but I understand it's a common practice here in the states. Brickeye brings up a good pointer as usual!

  • manhattan42
    15 years ago

    Whether you use nails or screws matter little.

    Screws improperly set that puncture the paper facing can cause problems worse than that of any hand-driven nail.

    While most 'production' drywall contractors use screws just to get the job done 'faster' (and just to get paid quicker) does not mean that using screws is a superior method of hanging drywall.

    Many pros (including me) still use hand installed nails and still prefer it to screw-applied drywall.

    The key and best drywall installation method without regard to whether or not one uses screws or nails, is to use adhesive on each board.

  • jeffreydw1983
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I have yet to see a screw pop under normal conditions. With nails it is a guarantee. Nails do not have the holding ability of a screw. Try to pull a drywall screw from a stud with the claw of your hammer. It will take a chunk of wood with it. Drywall nails on the other hand pull out with little resistance.

    DO NOT glue your drywall. You will have a nightmare on your hands if you ever need to remove it. It is completely unnecessary when using screws. You can also plan on using a tube per sheet and at $4-$5 a tube you'll be adding a lot of unnecessary costs.

    If you're a homeowner doing some remodeling don't waste your money on a $100+ specialty screw gun. A standard drill, corded or cordless will do just fine. Use a little bit of care and if you drive the screw too far and break through the paper, leave it, and place another screw a few inches away.


  • PRO
    User
    8 years ago

    Anything other than drywall screws would add time and expense and lower quality. I haven't seen nailed drywall since the 70's.

    Sealant would be for acoustic purposes.

  • PRO
    By Any Design Ltd.
    8 years ago

    Here in Vancouver most of the pro boards will nail off a board quickly where the board is tapered on the edges and couple in the middle. Then another person comes in and screws off the board with drywall screws.


    The trend I do not like to see is the boarders are using cordless drills and using metal fine thread 1 1/4" screws vs 1 5/8" course thread screws. This screw length and type choice is not because the smaller screw is better but because it's faster and then can drive more of them on a single battery charge. Fine thread screws should be used for metal studs. Course thread screws for wood.


    Screws do pop. Happens all the time. I nearly need to walk down my stairs to be reminded of this fact.


    Before anyone tapes the walls they all should be shoved. To check that the board is tight to the wall. Before letting the mudders tape you should do an inspection of the screws. Back a few out.


    There is no CODE that says you can't do this so you should specify it prior to accepting a drywall crews bid for the job. I warned a builder about this and after an entire condo was boarded he made them come back and take them all out and replace them.

  • jeffreydw1983
    8 years ago

    John, if the pro's in your area are using nails to initially attach the sheet of drywall to studs and then come back and finish with screws, those screw pops you see on your staircase are likely nails.


  • PRO
    User
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    In the US, the drywall manufacturer recommended screw spec for wood studs is 1 1/4" Type W Bugle Head Screws. For metal studs they would be Type S.

    Screw guns get hard use by pros so I would have thought cordless ones would be too expensive. But replacing the cords costs a lot too.

  • Vith
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Screws are superior to nails in almost every application including framing. Even compared to threaded nails, screws are better. Any sort of leverage on a nail will pull it out, try to take a pry bar and pull a screw out. I hate when I see framing guns used, yea they are quicker but screws will get you a stronger house. With the availablity of cordless impact drivers and fast charging lithium batteries, framing guns should be obsolete. With the availability of machine gun style screw guns, drywall nails should be obsolete.

  • bry911
    8 years ago

    As I understand it, screw pops can happen as wood shrinks and expands. It is much more rare than nail pops but it certainly can happen.


    I would argue that nails are much better than screws for framing, but whatever you want is great with me. Screws don't allow movement which is perceived as stronger but over time wood moves. Wood will expand and shrink with the seasons, houses will settle and this can cause screws to snap because they don't allow any movement. If you are worried about strength use lots of blocking and nails. It will be cheaper, faster and stronger than screws. And if you happen to live in an earthquake area nails will be a lot better.

  • PRO
    User
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    The likelihood of screw pops will depend on the moisture content of the lumber and that will often depend on the region. Green air-dried/surface-green lumber might shrink enough to make a screw pop but I've never seen one in the kiln-dried/surface-dry lumber commonly used in the northeast.

  • Vith
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Fine I will use 1/2" lag bolts for everything, then it wont snap. Toenailing too. Lol :)

  • PRO
    By Any Design Ltd.
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    "...In the US, the drywall manufacturer recommended screw spec for wood studs is 1 1/4" Type W Bugle Head Screws. For metal studs they would be Type S..." - New England Architect

    I'm sure this specificatuion is the least you can use. The bare minimum. 1 5/8" screws is what I spec on all 1/2" and 5/8" drywall or quiet rock installs. Course thread for wood fine thread for metal.

    Wood screws can back out of metal studs because of the design and vibration. Fine thread screws can pull out of wood because there is not enogh grip.

    Drywallers here are getitng lazy. I see the guys using tiny 14 volt drills. It's no wonder they don't have a helper follwing them to hold the screws. It's not all the guys but it is a trend I'm seeing on more and more jobs.

    Check the fastners and specify what you want.

  • User
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    As the hiker chased by a bear only needs to run faster than his fellow hiker, a drywall screw only needs more pullout resistance than the fastener pull-through resistance of the drywall.

    The gypsum manufacturers tests have established the necessary resistance to be provided by a 5/8 inch penetration into wood by a type W drywall screw.

    These manufacturers have also tested the fastener pop issue and found that longer fasteners contribute to the problem. Therefore, the 5/8 inch screw penetration recommendation is both a minimum and a maximum. See GA-222-09 from the Gypsum Association.

  • PRO
    By Any Design Ltd.
    8 years ago

    If that was truly the case then where is the 1 1/8" screw. I've been boarding and taping drywall for a couple of decades. The hacks use the tiny screws and the little cordless drivers. Same guys look like they sleep in their truck and hit the bottle by noon.

    When I see pros working. Longer proper screws. Every time.

    Most association standards site the bare bones minimum you can go. If that's good enough for your job - have at it. For my home, my clients I want better than the basics.

  • User
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Standard type W screws are 1" for 3/8 GWB; 1 1/8" screws for 1/2"; 1 1/4" screws for 5/8". 1 5/8" screws are normally used for double layer 1/2" GWB. But many residential installers use 1 1/4" screws for all single layer GWB.

  • PRO
    Cabot & Rowe
    8 years ago

    Round these parts it's all 1 5/8" screws. If you can find 1 1/4" you're lucky. But that may be the side effect of 'dumbing it down' so installers don't use the smaller screws on 5/8 sheetrock

  • User
    8 years ago