kellied~~ GOOD FOR YOU, GAL!!!! I love to see someone who does what they like, instead of following a trend.

cohippygirl~~ I love your kitchen...it is so nice. It looks like a kitchen where people are comfortable and says "come in and stay awhile".....good job.

I also agree with the posters who cringe at the thought of replacing good kitchens just "because" their friends or neighbors might be putting in something "to keep up with the Joneses". I certainly would be appreciative of some of the kitchens that they are replacing. Not all of us are fortunate (or unfortunate) to be willing to spend our hard earned money on a house. In this day of bad economy, so many are just one day away from a "pink slip" and then where would they be?...foreclosure? I'd rather spend my money on making memories with my family.

I often wonder about the costs of some of the kitchens and how much in debt they are going for "the look". I do know so many of you actually do "cook" in your kitchens, but I also know that many people eat out and get take out more than they ever use the stove......oh my, they cringe of thinking their kitchen might get dirty~~

Now my vent is over for today ~~

I have white appliances, but that's only because I couldn't find turquoise or lime green!

bahacca, I'm in Sonoma County, but styles probably don't differ that much between No. and So. Calif.

I'm going to have white cabinets and a dark gray countertop. I didn't realize it was trendy till I read it at GW. I love creamy white and gray together regardless. The thing is, it's not like a dress that you think is so special and wear it to a party and there are 15 other women in the same dress. This will be a much used room in my house with which I'll have a personal relationship. If my neighbor or daughter or unknown person on the internet thinks it's overdone, it really has no bearing on my choice.

On the other hand, I will be spending zero $$$ on full-extension drawers or nifty little spice compartments. :)

When others see our before current kitchen they have that look on their face (and sometimes say it as politely as they can) that we're crazy to rip out our 15 y.o. kitchen that we recently purchased.

If we were remodeling because of aestictics only, we would be crazy. Between the awkward layout of having approx 60 sq ft' of countertop but use about 8' sq ft of countertop seems a HUGE waste!!! Though the kitchen size is medium size, it "works" cramped.

Besides all the unusable countertop area, we thrive on natural lighting. We currently have NO windows but does have secondary windows in adjoining rooms. We are adding two 3 foot window to the kitchen.

With the casual lifestyle we have, we wanted to take a small wall down to open up the kitchen to the main living area.

I was going to reuse our current kitchen cabinets but it really seemed crazy to reinstall our current cabinets and then purchase new cabinets for our large laundry room that has no cabinets currently. We've decided to purchase new IKEA cabinets for the kitchen and either reuse our old cabinets or resell them (they are still quite nice and should fetch some $.

We're going to get corian countertops (my DH HATES laminate but I can understand others choosing it) and I know many don't like it, so we're definately bucking the tread there. I'm hiding the DW (black on black) where most pics I see, the DW is prominantly exposed, another trend I'm bucking. We're struggling about the frig. We'll likely get SS but kicking and screaming all the way. Keeping the white seems too dramatic black on white, but I do not like SS frigs at all. We wanted to hide the cooktop too, so another bucking the trend.

I don't particularly like going through this kitchen remodel process, and more then once I've questioned whether it's even worth it. But when I think of just living with it, I know I would never really want to do more then the bare minimum in our kitchen that is really the "heart" of most any home.

Some of those kitchen we see can look great but there is usually a deeper reason as to why someone redoing this. Considering the headache to do it, there almost always has to be a major driving force forge ahead.

I can't imagine anyone following a "trend" in creating their new kitchen. I think most everyone here does what they love... what makes them feel good to look at... and what they personally think is pretty, and of course also what the can afford. I can't believe anyone would make such critical and costly choices based on a "trend". I happen to love white kitchens. I would have gone with gray, or pink, or green, or purple, if that was my favorite. I'm not "bucking the trend" but I'm not following it either. My white kitchen was a "labor of love".

IRL, many people walk into a showroom or HD/Lowes and pick one of the display kitchens and copy it. More often or not, the ones they see are trendy. They may be what the consumer liked best, but only from a limited selection. I don't think the average homeowner puts a fraction of the time and effort that GWers do. If they have more money, they rely on a KD to make many choices.
I have seen literally thousands of real kitchens over the years and the ones done to GW standards are few and far between. I am not talking about cost per se, but the sheer effort to get the form and function both working....

The reason so many of us choose trendy elements for our kitchens (whether we admit it or not) is because that is what is available. Not many of us have the taste, design skills, shopping stamina, and budget to totally go our own way. However, there is a lot of stuff available, so we don't all have to end up with the same kitchen. Although some of us like to joke (I presume we are joking???) about the One True GW Kitchen, I'm sure there more of us that didn't do one than did, so I suppose, most of us have "bucked the trends."

I just happened to catch a few minutes of Suzie Orman's latest on PBS the other day and have now dubbed my planned remodel for next year my "living in my truth" kitchen. The Board is great, it is fun to see the range of kitchens and you can be TKO at any price point. You can agonize as much over choosing a laminate as marble or granite. I don't know if it is so much about trends or just being able to focus on what you need and like in your budget and not worrying about what anyone else is doing.

I learned a lot doing my Mom's kitchen with her, she wanted sheet flooring and laminate counters and nothing was going to dissuade her (least of all me). I cajoled her into handling her choices in a bit fancier way which worked out great. It certainly has affected how I am approaching my own kitchen.

Someone mentioned earlier on this thread that people who frequent GW do not follow trends. If that is the case, why are there so many "is this dated?" threads??

Nah, you aren't bucking the trends at all. You're just following a different set of trends at a different price point. You're part of a pretty large majority in this country for your selections. That large majority just mostly doesn't have a net connection and leisure time to post to GW.

The majority of folks who do kitchens here are going to be in the top 25% income bracket. Say from 75%-95%. The top 5% have people who handle this sort of thing for them and don't cook or really care about any of the details. And the lower 75% cab't afford most of the "typical" GW kitchen where the budget for the range is their typical whole appliance budget.

More than half of Americans do not have any idea at all about the available level of "fashion" choices that folks here agonize over. Most have never even heard of a Wolf or Viking much less a Blue Star. They shop at Sears or Lowes and think 1K for a range is a lot of money to spend.

Not saying it's right or wrong for any of it. It's just different when you household income is 40K vs. 140K. The additional money brings in the luxury of the cosmetic renovation vs the necessity of the one caused by the fire or flood or the just plain worn out cabinets.

You can do a kitchen renovation for 5K. With all new (to you) cabinets and appliances. You really can. It might not be what most here would choose to do, but necessity revs up your creativity. Plenty of great meals are produced in small spaces with barely adequate equipment.

Any renovation that rises above "adequate" is a luxury. "Style trends" in a kitchen are a luxury. There's nothing wrong with luxury items at all! As long as you don't forget that they ARE luxury items and not necessities.

GreenDesigns- I don't think you mean it to sound this way, but your post comes across as a bit elitist. As if only the wealthy can do GW kitchens, with the rest of us not bucking a trend, but following a different trend at a 'lower' price point?

And the cosmetic vs. the necessary renovation, with the luxury items afforded mainly by the wealthy...well, here are some ideas that not only are affordable, but show a lot of the 'GW secrets' to the masses. I've attached a link from today's msn.com home page...that shows a lot of the things we discuss here everyday. Enjoy :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Link to kitchen ideas on msn.com

I disagree that GreenDesigns is elitist. Unless realistic = elitist. I see wayyyy more elitest opinions expressed on GW by folks who insist one cannot "age in place" in a kitchen that lacks a wall oven and induction cooktop.

If there is any "bucking the trend" going on here, I would say it is because the majority of GW kitchen folk are much more concerned with function, ie, we really do cook in our kitchens, which I'm afraid is not always the case among the population at large.

Now, see, I didn't read it as elitist at all. Just another viewpoint.

LL, that's my whole point. GW is an elitist community and if you visit here long enough, your perspective can become skewed as to what other people in the rest of the country consider "the norm". Large expensive kitchens are way over represented here in disproportionate amounts that do not compare with the demographics of the entire US. The "norm" here costs much more than the "norm" in the rest of the US simply because of the economics issue. That is not at all a snobbish observation. It is a reality based one.

Economics breeds different choice spectrums and different style/function expectations. Christopher Peacock and Cardell won't be the same kitchen, even if the same inspiration idea is used. GW posters are more commonly at one end of the economic spectrum, with differing norms than people at the other end of the spectrum. Not many people with 10K renovation budgets post here. And way more people have that type of budget than have the 50K budgets that are more often represented here.

What is "trendy" will change at different budget points and at different locations in the country. And not everyone is at all trend conscious at any budget point. The gazillion choices for counters simply doesn't interest them the way whatever the latest runway haute coteur fashion might be totally uninteresting to the vast amount of Americans who simply want to not run around naked.

I think that your average person may be reading here but are not posting here because of the majority of the threads being from those who want the higher end things. Your average person isn't going to care about a prep sink, how wide the aisles are, pot fillers, microwave drawers and on and on and on.
Now, before I get lambasted for that comment please remember that this was about me wanting what I want without fear of reprisal from others for my choices.

Vent over. Thank you.

I had a partially DIY kitchen that did not follow the Gardenweb Something's Gotta Give Kitchen style. I found people here to be very supportive.

Like any other forum, the people who are most passionate about the topic are most apt to post. I've enjoyed and learned from them.

And Kellie, you're right, a prep sink wasn't in the cards for me. However, we did really benefit from learning about the NKBD standards. What we found was that changing the footprint even a little tends to have a domino effect. At least two major mistakes were averted because of my reading here, and also from advice from another poster on recommended aisle widths.

Kellied - the day I ripped out my 1948, chrome rimmed, sad excuse for a counter top (worn away throughout) and replaced it with home depot's cheapest, off the rack, laminate, was a great day. I still have my 1948 cabinets and I can't understand why the Kitchen Impossible Man hasn't come to my rescue yet. Any 80's kitchen has to be better.

Good for you to vent. Stick with your plan and I look forward to seeing your reveal. I believe its more about how your materials work together than what the materials are made of.

Many of us here use non-luxury appliances and do not use custom cabs. My faucet cost less than $200 and my top of the line Bosch was bought at a scratch and dent sale and was just over $400 after I replaced the kickplate and bought the manual and cutlery basket. My sink was free on freecycle and I got my new out of the box GE Monogram wall oven on CL from an appliance dealer for $700.
Just because you see name brands such as our venthood (retail $2,300, paid with tax just under $1k on sale) or a lot of cabs (Ikea just over $8k for purchase, delivery, assembly and installation) does not necessarily mean I spent $50k on the kitchen. In our case, we extended the house, so we did spend more, but if the size had been here, our kitchen would be considered downright "budget". I think many people here make their choices like we do with a mind to form, function AND budget. We put in the extra time to end up with a better kitchen than if we just bought off the shelf and paid the going rate without researching everything to death. Our kitchen works better than most non-GW kitchens and cost us as little as we could get away with. Our "splurges" were on layout and aisle size.
Our vintage stove's total, after being tuned up and converted to propane, cost us less than $1k mentioned as average.
There is no prep sink, warming drawers, Advantium, micro drawer, under cab or can lighting, paneled appliances or wine chiller. We ended up with Corian after almost getting laminate because the Corian was 40% off and not much more than the laminate I wanted (and dh was in love with the Corian). I even returned the Tapmaster when I thought through if we really needed it and found out how much extra we'd be charged for installation (our gc gouged us for any "extras". We didn't even do the trash pullout because we prefer our good old step garbage can. Our fridge and freezer are white Whirlpools, for heaven's sake, lol!

I bet there are many more people here with budget kitchens than those with custom new builds or luxury kitchens. The over the top ones may get more attention, but there are many who come here to just get new counters and hardware and seek advice. The smaller updates do smaller reveals or feel to shy to post because they see the grander ones. The response to the budget kitchens is just as enthusiastic as to the expensive ones. In fact, the DIY ones are the most amazing ones IMHO. I applaud those who can roll up their sleeves and re-do their own kitchens. The workmanship is often to a higher level because they are done with love and care.
Our economic demographic may skew a little higher than average, but we are not a bunch of divas who don't have to deal with reality either!

Interesting commentary! I have always found GW to be helpful for any price-point in the remodel spectrum. I know it was invaluable to me in my previous "semi-budget" remodel in that it helped me achieve a "high-end" look and functionality for a fraction of the cost because of the knowledge gained here. Also, how much one spends on a kitchen can depend upon a variety of factors -- not always tied to income level. I am so thankful for the immense amount of knowledge to be gained here -- whether it is about granite or laminate -- and for the willingness of the community to share and help. I am looking forward to starting another remodel soon, and this one may involve a little more splurge because the price of the house/neighborhood and available space will justify it. However, one question that I have always wondered about -- how much better can you fry an egg on a $7,000 range versus a $700 one?

legallin,

how much better can you fry an egg on a $7,000 range versus a $700 one?

I love that statement and think it brings everything into
perspective.

I have been lurking because I am remodeling my kitchen and doing it on a budget. I think there is some good info here. I do not think you have to follow the trend but function is what I was looking for help.

I stopped watching HGTV because they think every kitchen should have granite counters and SS appliances. I hate granite because all I have seen is just to busy for my eyes and this SS thing reminds me of the havest gold of the old days. Everybody will be laughing at that style like we laugh at the Harvest gold years from now.

I am probably wrong about that appliance comment because the appliance I do not believe will last as long as those old days made to last appliances of the old days. That quality does not exist these days.

By the way I am going with Marble counters. I like the etched look it is a old house and to keep with the period I think it will look better.

So I said all this to say....I think everybody should go with what they like not what is the trend or to keep up with the Jones.

I was also thinking about something that kind of ties in.
I love looking at how people set a table with beautiful
china and lots of pizazz but I have absolutely no desire
to do it myself. I'm a pottery type of gal.
Seems there is room here for everyone's style and budget
and we should all be able to take some ideas for
ourselves and leave the rest to others. JMHO

Speaking of realistic, Consumer Reports has an excellent publication on Kitchen & Bath recommendations. I always look to them for purchases to get the biggest bang for my buck.

I think there's a pretty diverse readership here, just as there must be for all the shelter mags & HGTV. I think there's plenty of room to celebrate everyone's projects, large or small, high-end or low-end. I do many high-end kitchens & baths (& my contractor hubby) & many low-end kitchens & baths. I enjoy the low-end projects much more than doing the high-end ones. I love working with a sparse budget. My own future kitchen/bath renos will be considered low-end...overall. And I won't care one whit if any of my "high-end" clients turn their noses up to it.

Can't wait to see before & afters for ANYONE!!!

~Jeana

Many people come here to make sure they are not making mistakes when planing their project's. They may not care about all the up grades, but they may want the best functional kitchen they can get. Everyone has different taste and budget's. I, like to look at everyone's finish kitchen's, rather if it is high end, or not. Amazing what some people on here do their self. In the end one should be proud and happy with their kitchen, and not care what anyone else has or does.

kellied is correct, ".... majority... want the higher end things.... me wanting what I want without fear of reprisal from others for my choices..."

kellied wants to post that she wants what she wants.

Great.

Ditto shar-az
Ditto greendesign.
Ditto everyone else who posted about low cost and making do.

--

If you feel pressure, drop the feeling.
Nobody is pressuring you.

Well said, Davidro1, and succinct: "If you feel pressure, drop the feeling.
Nobody is pressuring you."

The only pressure I ever see around here is toward people who defensively cling to bad layout. And I whole heartedly endorse that kind of pressure -- sometimes it takes some pressure for people to loosen their grip on a bad design. I've never seen people pressured to upgrade their materials unless it affected the function of the kitchen (e.g. add a prep sink). I myself had a very low cabinet budget, and never felt snubbed because of it -- I got great help from this forum, the same people that comment on high end designs. I don't see a difference at all in how people are responded to -- I honestly think it comes from within (e.g. interpreting a comment in a way it wasn't intended, etc.).

I so agree with you kellied. I don't have the feeling of keeping up with anyone. The GW has been a life saver for me with answering questions and helping with problems. This forum has never made me feel less than others because I could not afford the high end toys.

Everything with my reno would have been an upgrade for me. Everything was literally falling apart. But I saved for a darn long time to get what I needed in the new kitchen. I don't have a prep sink, how wide the aisles are, pot fillers, microwave drawers and on and on and on as you stated. BUT I did the best I could do with what I saved.

Traditional or trendy? Designers, GC? Not a chance but so far I am in love with my new kitchen. Most of it was DIY.

For those who are on a budget, like me, there are many places in your area that provide services for free.

I love your choices and your post. Isn't it great that we are all different? I've gotten different points of view of many things I would not have considered before. Choices. Options. It's a forum for you to decide or not. In the end it's up to your style and taste.

We all have our likes and dislikes. Good for you!

It's funny because I had NO IDEA that my kitchen vision would be considered trendy, as out of all my friends only TWO have white kitchens. One has thermofoil cabs, and the other friend painted her oak cabinets bright white. In my neighborhood, people are updating their kitchens with new wood cabinets, Corian, or updated laminate counters, and tile floors. Often, they stick with white (though new) appliances, though sometimes I see some stainless. And their kitchens are completely lovely!

When I set out to remodel our kitchen, I had a kitchen vision of creamy white (which I thought was a description original to me--LOL) cabinets, a big farm sink, and a pretty backsplash. As long as I could remember, this was the kitchen of my dreams. The closest I had seen to what was in my head was in the movies. I found GW when I was researching whether or not it was possible to put custom doors on IKEA cabinet boxes. I already had my layout and had started accumulating things. It was actually kind of a relief to me to see that other people had my same vision--that I wasn't totally whacked for wanting creamy painted cabinets with glass doors and crystal knobs. Though I looked lustfully at the high-end ranges and hoods, I knew that wasn't in our budget, and we stayed with a mixture of white and stainless appliances from ebay and Sears.

I love looking at all the kitchens on this site, but my favorites are the ones with the modest budgets and the DIYers--probably because that is where we are. I love how creative GWers are--and MAN, can this group stretch a budget or what! I am floored at the talent and ingenuity here!

Kellie, I look forward to seeing your kitchen--it sounds perfect to me!

Regarding where posters are coming from, it's very wide, but I've been here for a lot of years now, and it's always been pretty much from a broad middle class/upper working class demographic. Some can serenely afford whatever they want, writing cash checks for $60-80K kitchens the way I did for my $3,000 one, but many others draw from retirement, take equity loans, or just plain borrow to create the kitchens they feel they need. Others, like me, could have spent more, sometimes a lot more, than we did but just didn't care to--just another of thousands of ways of doing one's own thing displayed here.

I've seen a lot of people say they admire a Christopher Peacock kitchen, but I don't recall anybody ever coming here and double-checking Mr. Peacock's design against our recommendations, or any other of the fine designers whose work we admire in glossy mags. People do hire them, after all, but not us. Nor do we see a lot of people needing kitchens (main or secondary) that will accommodate the catering staff they bring in for frequent large entertainments. No doubt there are a bunch who come here who have no intention of actually cleaning their own ovens, like my daughter, but I'm guessing very, very few (none?) with more than one live-in housekeeper, which even a very modest working mom may have--an extra room being the biggest requirement.

As always with any community, a mainstream core group-think develops, yes, and there are those who love rules and guidelines, but this community is actually incredibly diverse. SO many are offering wonderful ideas arising from their own special situations and talents. Truly something for everybody. Just witness what happens when somebody asks for something outside the box and some of the quiet people standing around listening decide to join the conversation. Fun!

About cooking the egg......

Maybe that's the key right there to my answer. If you're just cooking eggs, get a $700 coil range. I cook more than eggs. My old coil range could not keep up with my cooking style. No woking possible. No true high heat searing, nor did I have the hood to keep up with the smoke from any sear. No true, gentle simmer. Tricky to cook multi-pan meals with 4 small burners. Sure, I got by with one oven and a crappy old range, but I was "just getting by", not stretching my cooking skills or being able to cook as I would really like. Cooking for a group in my old kitchen stressed me out. Menu planning for a plated, coursed, dinner for 20 with one oven and 4 old, coil burners was difficult, as was the actual preparation.

I'm so looking forward to my new 6 burner gas rangetop and my double ovens! I would never, and have never, derided anyone for choosing anything else. If laminate works for you, great! Just be sure and post a picture of your kitchen so I can see it! I love looking at other kitchens, as I'm sure everyone else here does too.

And Kellie--curious to know who has criticized your choices. I KNOW it wasn't me. Was it your sister L?

MY vent over. ;)

I love that aspect of this forum but do not like when people are led to believe that their choices are wrong. I have been guilty of this myself by saying "this is what I would do". What I would do is not what that poster is looking for. Honest feedback in a diplomatic, considerate manner. Isn't that what we all are looking for? In the end, the decision is that of the one remodeling the kitchen.

Wendy, if we are posting at the same time, shouldn't we just call each other?

If that was venting, that was pretty darn mild. I was not criticizing your kitchen and I don't think anyone else was either. Sure, I'd love a six burner range and double ovens but that would be total overkill for the way I cook. That does not mean that I think you shouldn't have them. Every person has a different situation and everyone should be able to make personal choices without being made to feel like they've been singled out.

NOT L, I would have to take her off my Christmas list for that. Just a random person that I'll never have to interact with again..

I want to cry for the PLANET when I read about all the perfectly functional kitchens that are torn out and discarded when someone moves into a new house and just doesn't like the previous owner's taste. My contractor tells me this is going on a little less than it used to, but he still gets jobs here in Fairfield County where he is asked to gut a five-year old kitchen. I suppose you could argue that it keeps people like him and his crew employed...

We have a friend who started a clearinghouse for unused, even expired, prescription medication, all of it still good, that he collects and donates to third world countries. Now there's a start-up for an enterprising GW'er...

When I first wandered into the KF years ago, I was so happy to find kindred TKO spirits. People who resonate to kitchens, always have, always will. We are not normal people.

My reno was low budget / high conservation and I recall only one negative remark - someone sayng flatly that I could not get a contemporary look from my exisiting cabinets and counters. That was just one remark. Other folks were terrific with problem solving, support and accolades when we somehow got it done.

Yes, there is product info around here that relates to higher budgets, admittedly more than relates to lower budgets. And talk of trends. But there is also a wealth of info on color, space, function and processes - from temorary kitchen survival tactics to dealing with shoddy work. Very helpful info for anyone trying to make his/her kitchen better.

As for budgets - well, I'll repeat myself. The range is what folks spend on a car. Or a wedding. Some go all out, some keep it basic. And many people don't drive and don't get married - that's fine too.

(I drive a 96 Toyota and I eloped. It fits.)

Regarding perfectly useable kitchens getting torn out and thrown away, I would like to think that the majority is being reused whether through Habitat for Humanity, Craigslist, Freecycle or something similar. It would be a crying shame for perfectly useable items to go to the dump.
When we tore our cabinets out we were able to pass them onto a friend for his garage. I lived with these things for three years before I realized that they were oak! Shows you how much I liked them (NOT). Now, maybe if they hadn't been that 70's dark. Naw. They were totally worn out and disgusting. Too much damage!!

Posted by kellied (My Page) on Wed, Nov 2, 11 at 18:56

"Just a random person that I'll never have to interact with again.."

Practically the same thing happened to me at Lowes the other day. I was getting price quotes on windows from a guy and his coworker (female) walks up and says, "Why would you ever do it like THAT?!" I practically snarled at her. She backed off. Ugh! Not her business what I do. I know where you're coming from. You just gotta get that snarl down and you'll get your point across just fine.

The majority of folks who do kitchens here are going to be in the top 25% income bracket. Say from 75%-95%. The top 5% have people who handle this sort of thing for them and don't cook or really care about any of the details. And the lower 75% cab't afford most of the "typical" GW kitchen where the budget for the range is their typical whole appliance budget.

Well, Green Designs, I'll bet you could meet someone who was in the top 5% and not even know it especially if you stereotype that way. I happen to be in that group and because of my profession know quite a few others who are. Most don't choose to have a housekeeper or cook. One sent their very nice home made jam as consolation food when my father died. There are all kinds of reasons and variety for how people spend their money. Some have other demands on their money like a commitment to helping other family members or to charity; some prefer their privacy; some like to cook and some want to save for the future because they have good pay today but no retirement.

I've seen many great budget remodels here over the years I've been on. They received plenty of praise and attention. Some looked like they could have cost a lot more than what they did due to the DIY efforts of their owners. I recall one that used granite that was gotten recycled from another kitchen and another that was DIY in a more unfitted unique style with second hand pieces.

It took around 20 years for us to get round to our remodel because we were busy raising kids and early on didn't have the money for a full remodel. In retrospect, we should have done a minimal interim update at the beginning to replace the counters and awful cooktop (an early ceramic one where 3 of the burners would only work with a perfectly flat pan bottom because of the temperature control) instead of waiting to do anything until we could do the perfect remodel. A laminate countertop would have been better than the awful bumpy 70's yellow tile with wide grey brown grout.

celticmoon, one of our cars is a 1994 Toyota. The other is a 2006 Lexus, but the car it replaced was 20 years old. We tend to buy something we like that suits us well and keep it.

Yup, jenhp, sometimes you just have to have a thick skin and move on. I remember one GC we interviewed who was very insistent that the hood and rangetop had to be centered in our island for symmetry even though that would have been terrible for function. And actually being offset over our island centers it against the long wall of our L - there is more than one symmetry possible.

I've been working on this post on and off, all day.

I feel bad for those who see disagreement with their floor plan as disrespect for them as a person. I don't think that criticism = disrespect. Sometimes, its that people can become very emotionally attached to their floor plan and have trouble separating comments about their floor plan from criticism of themselves as a person.

I want to say it's not personal and it has nothing to do with respect for you as a person or your goals for your family. The floor plan isn't you or your family - its just a drawing of potential cabinet/appliance placements. You worked on it for a long time and you can see a picture of your finished kitchen in your head that looks great.

Everyone hopes that their ideas are great but sometimes, they aren't perhaps the best way to achieve what you want. Sometimes, they could be greater if you let in some of the advice. It's very hard to judge the way a kitchen will work by yourself. Every bit of the advice still has to be sifted by you to determine if you want to include it.

I don't blame people for becoming attached to a plan they have worked on - I love each and every floor plan I do. I see romantic vignettes of people using the space. No matter how much I love the picture in my head, it may not work out that way. Love doesn't mean that dh won't continue to drop the mail in the middle of the kitchen table or that having the range in a particular orientation will somehow magically cause prep space to appear. I posted my personal layouts for comment because I'm leery of love clouding my judgment.

Achieving your goals for your kitchen and your family can have many physical appearances and cabinet layouts. This is one of those place where "if you don't have anything nice to say" doesn't work to anyone's benefit. Nobody says we have to be enablers of poor kitchen designs, either.

I really try to be respectful of limits. If you want only comments in a certain area, please clearly post on what is open for discussion. It is perfectly fine to only want decorating advice or opinions on which range will look more impressive.

Everyone could do a better job of not "piling on" an issue. Even those who are railing against the pile on sometimes do their own pile-on.

I agree there is a certain level of material snobbery that goes on. Plus, there are groups that go after people personally if they dare criticize a sainted product. God help you if you don't like ikea, small ovens or don't feel emotional about granite.

Just so you know, time on forum and attempts to help literally hundreds of others are no guaranty against weird comments. I have been the recipient of some really "interesting" ones.

Knowing that my kitchen had been destroyed by a bad insulation job and we were literally looking at studs, one poster told me that if I couldn't afford what I wanted, that I shouldn't do a kitchen at all. The same person told me to shut up about it, that I wasn't the only person to ever have their kitchen destroyed. The person who posted that didn't have their kitchen destroyed.

I have had people say how I didn't understand what it was to be poor or what its like to have to save money to get what you want or live in a large family. That I didn't understand how it feels to be told what I think? That I liked to spend other people's money, that a floor plan that took a good part of a morning was only an entertainment, that I was psychologically damaged. It was after that one that another long time forum member posted that they were happy that I felt awful.

One of my all time favorites said that I must have a bad marriage because I couldn't think of a good reason that would convince dh to agree to a tapmaster in the previous kitchen.

I grew up dirt poor. I only have 6 brothers and sisters. Dh and I have been married for 15 years with no end in sight.

We do a lot of work on the house ourselves and shop like heck but I still don't find $3k refs marked down to $399 like some others do. Craigslist has yet to cough up a cheap Wolf range for me either. Maybe its because I was psychologically damaged :)

I generally post on layout questions. For me, the best response to layout questions is providing ideas and not answers - let's face it, all we ever know is a precious little detail about the poster and a floor plan. Sometimes I can look at a drawing and not have a clue. Other times, I might have a great idea, but its not interesting to the poster. Sometimes, everybody seems stuck and I'll post something completely different just to adjust the viewpoint.

If I can't make a suggestion or people have asked for critique, I will try to point out problems in the layout that was posted. Someone lately called that being a troll - seriously!

People other than the original poster have yelled at me for commenting on plan issues - in their minds, they are defending the original poster. I find that puzzling because (1) they can't know what the original poster thinks and (2) I'm not attacking the poster - I'm talking about issues in a plan like maybe their aisle is too small.

Sometimes, the poster is going in a direction they want to go in, but its not the direction I would go in and that will blind me to the rest of whatever it is they want to do. Amazingly, I live with me 24-7 and I've figured out that the best I can do is admit to being stuck and hope someone else will jump in. I have had people other than the original poster cyber-yell at me for that too.

People who think they are defending the poster seem to feel perfectly justified in saying pretty awful things to other forum members. Sometimes, we all need to stop and think about whether what we're writing is being way too sharp.

I sometimes miss the original forum manager who would redirect you to the disney site for a while if your comments were too strong.

Here is a link that might be useful: Mickey, please do some majic!

Very interesting, well thought out reply.

As far as floor plans, sometimes you do not see the flaws until you have lived with it. The houses we designed really looked great on paper but the reality of living in the plan pointed out the shortcomings. Traffic patterns were a learning curve for sure. If someone had pointed this out to us before we built it we could have changed it around for a much more user friendly floor plan.

Yup. I'm from the Live and Learn school.

bmorepanic, wow:

I have had people say how I didn't understand what it was to be poor or what its like to have to save money to get what you want or live in a large family. That I didn't understand how it feels to be told what I think? That I liked to spend other people's money, that a floor plan that took a good part of a morning was only an entertainment, that I was psychologically damaged. It was after that one that another long time forum member posted that they were happy that I felt awful....

Etc, even!

FWIW, I just want to "pile on", or maybe pre-pile-on because I'm sure others will chime in similarly they just haven't done so yet: I love your comments. I love your stage name, I love your posts, I love how generous and thoughtful you are and helpful as well. Honestly, the internet just enables some weird comments, as you point out.

Kellied -- I've been thinking about this thread, too, since you first posted it. I had a huge, long philosophical soap-box of a comment-opus to post, but I think ... not. All I can really say is: I'm sorry if/that you feel judged in your choices. That's a shame.

So long as you aren't telling me I shouldn't do it, we're all good!
Thanks for bringing this thread back to what it was all about.

i vote for putting in the kitchen that you love, whatever that may be. to each is own. there are many choices represented here all with varying tastes and budgets, no one is right or wrong.

i have also been stunned on a couple of occasions to see before pics and the modern kitchens that have been pulled out. a few times i thought they were the afters but then read on to discover that not to be the case!

we usually do not know all the details behind the poster's circumstances. each of us has our own priorities and beliefs about what we spend money on and they are often not evident and i think that is the risk of an anonymous board like this.

i saved for some time for my remodel to avoid taking any money out of savings. i clean my own house, i wash my own car, i do my own yardwork, i skipped vacations to save money. i am not a clothes horse - target and marshalls are just fine. yet i love to cook and am willing to spend money on the kitchen that i will completely enjoy. my home is my oasis and cooking and having small dinner parties is heaven for me. others have different priorities and make different choices. it is all ok....

I happen to LIKE oak. I'm amused by the oak-hate everywhere. Oak is strong, warm, and interesting-looking. That said, I'm considering doing my base cabs in dark brown Rustoleum Transformations and distressing them and leaving the uppers as -- yes, you guessed it -- golden oak.

Comments/thoughts are welcome, as I'm scared to go ahead. :-)

I also like oak. Most of my furniture is golden oak but these particular cabinets were darker than I like and showed the wear and tear of almost forty years. I far prefer a lighter stain that lets the graining show through. My new cabinets are hickory because the grain is so darn interesting!
I say go ahead with what you really want to do!

Hugs to bmore and to kellie!

Love this thread.

Well I just spent the weekend assembling upper maple cabinets with "gasp" rope trim and a black glaze. I will have some big crown with rope too, but it was what worked with my budget redo and the existing cabinets and granite in the house we bought. I am keeping the faucet with the separate sprayer and painting out the oak lowers only because the finish was worn.

When I replace my appliances it will be with black ones because I like the black ones better than stainless.

Hackwriter, skip the transformations and use BM oil impervo and a glaze. You'll save money. It sounds like it would be lovely.

Just found this thread. Glad to find others who like white appliances, Formica, oak cabs, and modest prices. Hold fast to your decisions and your practical vision!
Here's my kitchen last year, about 3/4 done. These spaces are entirely new --12 foot bumpout on front of house.

We're still working on the project--kitchen is functional enough that we've turned to the exterior rehab, but I hope that we get things entirely done by next summer. Then I can do final photos.

Oh, I love your kitchen!

I didn't realize this was an older thread until I was about 9/10 of the way through it.

Re: older kitchens - our knotty pine cabinets, painted green (bottom) and white (peninsula upper) are original to the house, circa 1961 (they turned 50 this year :-) We wouldn't be considering a remodel if they weren't so rickety, i.e. wooden runners, many of which are broken and veer back and forth like they have a 2.0 blood alcohol content, split pantry doors held together with Gorilla glue, etc.

I laughed out loud when the Home Depot kitchen designer said kitchens should be remodeled every 15 years (I guess that means our kitchen has three missed opportunities under its belt).

We've taken a huge hit on this house - the first real estate mistake (?) I've ever made but I guess the mistake part won't be realized until we put it on the market at some point in the future. My husband's condo, purchased before we met, was a victim of the aerospace fallout back in the mid-nineties.

So, given the economy, the real estate market and the worry about putting even more money into this house, we need to be as prudent as possible with this remodel, that is, if we even end up going through with it.

Re: white kitchens - I didn't even know who CP was until I saw a blog mentioning his name about two weeks ago. I've been really out of decorating mode for several years now and have spent my internet time reading up on climate change, the shrinking heliosphere, etc. I'm trying to rearrange my thinking to be less-doom centered and more than that, trying to retrieve the creativity I seem to have lost these past eight years - worrying about things I have no control over.

So, all that said - I'm really enjoying the forum and all the kitchens, people, advice, etc.

The kitchen I fell in love with isn't a CP kitchen. It's a kitchen designed by an interior designer in Michigan and what I fell in love with was the backsplash (not subway tile but tumbled beach glass 3 or 4" squares with beach glass green accents). That backsplash has been the driving force behind my recent bout of kitchen obsessing - that and the green tea stains in our countertop grout. We've been on the 17 day diet (forever) and although I don't drink the requisite 3x a day tea, my husband does and the Costco brand leaves behind a puff of Matcha dust with each and every cup. Perhaps the cheapest remodeling avenue (for us) would be a green tea colored re-grout. Now there's a trend waiting to happen! Organic, colorful - and given the product origin, perhaps even radioactive.

Re: expensive kitchens vs. not as expensive kitchens - I've been on both sides of the counter on that. I no longer work and have become far more prudent than I've ever been in my life. My husband has a ten-year plan on cars which took some real getting used to but now I'm more of a "ten-year plan" type person in general. One of my good friends in the Midwest can't believe we have an early eighties refrigerator but as I've told her numerous times: "I've changed" (her reply, via phone, "where is Lee and what have you done with her?"

The tao of the ten-year plan has seeped into my consciousness and I actually felt sad to see the previous owner's mid-seventies Maytag go out the door when it finally stopped agitating ( *wipes away single tear* )

Blah blah blah aside, I love seeing what other people are doing (or not doing) with their houses and if we decide against remodeling I hope to continue to live vicariously through the GW remodels/new construction/holiday decorations, etc. The creativity found here has been truly stimulating and is far less scary than a shrinking heliosphere.