" and the helpful people here would "rip someone to shreds" in this situation?! If that's the impression I give here, then I should be doing something else!"

Come on Rhome, you are deliberately obfuscating what I said.

People post plans in here the PLANS are literally worked into something completely different than was the OPs original intent, and while the changes made are generally for the good, often the OP's original program is lost in the shuffle. There is nothing wrong with tweaking a plan to make it work better instead of turning it into a different kitchen. Better? maybe but does it resemble what the OP wants or the "helpful" people in here want? Often the answer to first post is a litany of everything that is wrong with it. Rarely is the plan left to resemble--even in spirit, the original. The PLANS get ripped to shreds, however nicely it is phrased.

The shoe is on the other foot now. You posted a plan, and people are disagreeing with it, you are feeling a bit bullied, and you are coming up with all the reasons why they shouldn't disagree with it. And they may be good reasons in your situation.

You really don't feel maybe a BIT of what the newbie feels when they post on this forum? Really? I would like to think you would have more insight than that.

It wasn't your decision. The old kitchen is now gone and must be replaced. Period. The only thing to do now is to lend your expertise to make sure the kitchen is done as well as it can be done within the budget others have choosen for you. I, for one, am looking forward to seeing the finished pics.

You posted a plan, and people are disagreeing with it, you are feeling a bit bullied

I don't feel bullied. Or at least I don't feel people are disagreeing with the layout, but only with decisions that weren't mine to make, and all the persuading, as well-meaning as I accept it to be, can't affect those. Doing nothing is no longer an option. Painting the old is no longer an option. Restructuring the house (moving windows or walls) to move things around to change the layout is not an option. Buying other cabinets would be more expensive. It's not about what I want. We are here and can't look back, but only at this layout and tweak it if necessary.

Thanks, Mikomum, and Breezygirl.

I disagree with the layout. The only thing you are doing is adding a bit of counterspace by taking out a full height oven stack and replacing it with a bit more counter. And possibly using an OTR microwave hood.(which is generally one of the seven deadly sins of the kitchen forum) And if bmore and Buehl were looking at this plan posted by Cluelessnewbie instead of their friend Rhome, they would be more critical too, in my opinion. Not saying "Oh Great Job!, given your constraints".

If you don't see that, you do lack the insight I gave you credit for. You are stuck in a situation and getting out of in in the least expensive way you can, and for that I don't envy you. But if we don't learn anything at all from this situation about how it feels to be on the other side of the debate for once, that is a shame.

I don't think that every thread is meant to educate every member. This was posted by our friend rhome, who is trying to do something really nice for her in laws. Since the kitchen is gone, don't we just need to move on and be as helpful as we can?

I am not a layout expert like so many here so I have refrained from really commenting. I don't think I could ever think of something you haven't rhome, but I am going to go back and look at the plans just in case.

I think "given the constraints" is absolutely the key phrase in this discussion. With the constraints of time, budget, and space, the layout presented is actually quite good, and I honestly don't see anything that anyone would "rip to shreds" if it were presented by anyone else. It solves the main problems (too dark, cramped cooking space) and would be a very functional kitchen. Seriously, what's not to like?

I will chime in with additional support of the OTR MW in this kitchen, or as someone else suggested, an expectation of a countertop MW. I think most people would prefer the upper cabinet space on either side of the range than to have the MW taking up the room.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and every OP, including me, is free to take or ignore what's offered.

I happen to think the additional counterspace to both side of the stove will make a very positive difference (it sure would for me...I've tried helping cook with it as it was), and opening the enclosed peninsula is a much better feel and offers a better shot at the view.

After looking at other options I drew, the family liked this idea, so that's what counts most. I came here looking for any additional tweaks I could offer them, and I appreciate that input, because we all know that sometimes you can get hooked onto one thing about a plan and totally miss something else. The microwave position is something I was concerned about, and it being the first thing picked out gives me reason to think about some more. I doubt we'll do the OTR microhood, because DH is against it...He values good ventilation and doesn't think we should give buyers something inferior if another option is available, so we'll see. I do see the value of the uppers to each side as all storage. The drawer vs cabinet issue, too, is something to think over, in terms of appeal, just not a cost issue in our case.

I'd appreciate the 2nd look, and comments on any other things you might find, Odiegirl.

Thanks, Holligator...Your assessment of the plan means we're meeting some of the goals we were after.

But now I'm off to bake and decorate 500 cookies for a friend's wedding this weekend...and my baking crew took off with their visiting big sister for a day in the big city! They'll have to bring a back hoe or something to free me and their youngest brother from the cookie mounds by the time they get home...At least I kind of hope so, since that means we'll have a lot done. Happy Thursday!

"Given the constraints" IS the key phrase. The constraint that was missed by some in this post was that the kitchen was already gone. I thought This original poster might get a glimpse of the poster who feels not listened to. The family did not listen from her experiences in here about whether it makes sense to do a new kitchen in this economy, and the people who posted, including me at first didnt look or listen enough to see that "Don't do it" was no longer applicable.

But this thread reminded me of the initial poster who posts right before or unfortunately right after pulling the trigger, and then gets the new layout treatment. My complaint about this forum although complaint may be too strong is that there are key points in the OPs wish list that are simply not heard, listened to or patently ignored
while the kitchen transforms into something else. "the constraints" are often complete ignored.

"This won't work for multigenerational cooking" "I see some problems when there are kids running around" "I am only five feet tall so it would never work for me" "This would never work for our family cookie night" are all the types of things that get said about OTHER people's kitchen designs. There are all kinds of value judgments and assumptions made about people's wish lists that may not be applicable and SHOULD not be applicable to their kitchen, and the wheels turn as the kitchen turns into the GW approved kitchen.

Sure you can choose to ignore the suggestions made in here, but don't expect to be congratulated for sticking to your guns. And I often feel that the OP is not made to feel fully entitled to their own opinion, they are made to feel they don't know enough to know what they want. However politely it is done. So choose to ignore what I say and blithely go on designing kitchens for other people that make You happy.

I've been debating all afternoon whether I should respond to this or not. It looks like Rhome was trying to let this go.

I've been here for almost a year. I posted my first layout thread in early March. I did feel ripped apart by some that responded. I studied here everyday, made significant changes to my plan and posted again. Not many liked that plan either. I drew again and reposted. Sometimes I felt like I wasn't being listened to or that I could never get a good plan together. Along the way I encountered Rhome who responded to my posts thoughtfully, politely, respectfully, and in my best interest. I felt she was trying to improve my design for my family and how I use the kitchen, not to how she would do it if it were her kitchen. In fact, sometimes I have to ask her, "how would YOU do this if you were me."

I have never felt like my space was being transformed into a "GW approved kitchen." Unless your definition of "GW approved kitchen" is one that has the correct work flow, the best use of space, maximum amount of storage, and has been well thought out where all of the possibilities were considered and narrowed down to the best possible kitchen I can have for my kitchen usage and budget considerations. If that's the case, then I guess I have been forced into a "GW approved kitchen." Thank goodness for that.

Palimpsest...if things could be changed and there was time, yes, I would have "ripped [it] to shreds," but they cannot & there isn't. Also, this is not a kitchen for the OP's personal use, which the vast majority here are...so there's no information to build on for suggestions, etc. b/c there's no "owner" yet.

Even so, it's not a bad layout.

• As I mentioned before, the Prep Zone is separated from the Cleanup Zone by the sink with the DW on the other side of the sink.

The Prep Zone and Cooking Zone are directly across from each other w/the short end of the "L" very close.
The refrigerator is on the periphery and on the FR end of the counter range wall run which means snackers will not get in the way of someone cooking or prepping.
I think, though, that I second Palimpsest's suggestion to move the MW to the other side of the kitchen. I would move it to short side of the "L" to get it out of the doorway and not in the way of someone cooking (and give that person cooking more room to work). It would also allow someone to be at the MW while someone else is prepping on the other leg of the "L".

I do think that corner is used by many of us. In our case, it was used for a small TV in our old kitchen and in my new kitchen it's where my KA stand mixer lives...perfect place for it...at its point-of-use but out of the way the rest of the time.
BTW...I like the fact that the MW is NOT OTR, I think others would as well. Even b/f coming here I disliked them based on personal experience in my sister's kitchen.

If there had been more time/flexibility/owner-vested interest, I would have tried to move the Cleanup Zone to where the range currently is and made the "L" into the Prep & Cooking Zones. I think RHome410 came as close to a "GW approved kitchen" (i.e., functional) as she could given the constraints and preferences of her DH & brothers.

I haven't been following this thread so I have nothing to add on the layout, but I will just throw out there that this discussion seems to imply that ripping something to shreds (or being the ripper) is a bad thing---and I actually think it's one of the best things that I've gotten out of this forum in the two years (!!) that I've been following it. When I first posted our kitchen, it got lots of ripping apart---I remember someone saying something to the effect of the only things she liked about it were the doorway and our dog. And we didn't even keep the doorway! (We did keep the dog... ;) It was frustrating, but it was also absolutely what we needed to hear. We were originally planning to spend 1/3 of our eventual budget on band-aids; instead we're getting a space that actually works. Without being ripped apart, we would probably have just done the patching. Soooo happy we didn't, especially as it now seems we'll be in our house longer that we'd guessed two years ago!

And I will also say that we ended up going with a plan that was definitely not GW-approved (most people hated it, if I remember!)---and I'm loving it. It's coming together to be just the space we wanted it to be. So that's also something to keep in mind---what works for individuals isn't always the same as the group consensus, depending on the goals. Especially if you're remodeling for resale, I think there's only so much you can guess about future owners---if there are no glaring problems, you're probably good to go.

Good catch, Buehl! Hadn't thought about putting the microwave on the short side of the L! (Any concern about the deeper upper for the mw making that already narrow doorway feel more crowded? Any benefit to stopping the upper a few inches short of where the base stretches to, so it's not so close to the doorway?...In other words, the uppers and base wouldn't end evenly.) The open/flexible counterspace is just too precious, and I think people will expect a place to get the microwave out of the way...Not that storage isn't precious, too, but that would make more storage available by the stove.

Thank you, Breezy. It's been my pleasure to work with you...and many others. This forum is full of opinions, and that's why people come, right? For fresh eyes and people with different experiences in kitchens. I hate 2nd-guessing and regrets, and work to help others not have those. If I think they might have one about an aspect of the plan, I point it out, and I certainly try to be nice and know that it's my own opinion and may or may not suit their lives. Of what use would it be to see a potential problem and keep quiet when they're asking for input?

I've never known Bmore or Plllog, in particular, to be afraid to be pretty blunt or argue with me ;-) . I think there are enough personalities here to cover most needs and balance viewpoints. And, yay, Artemis! --I don't think anyone should give over the whole plan and success of their space over to others...Their own needs should always take priority, and one thing I hope the forum does is help people really think about what their specific needs might be, now and in the future.

".if things could be changed and there was time, yes, I would have "ripped [it] to shreds," but they cannot & there isn't"

Just one of the things to keep in mind in the future--this isn't the first and only time this situation has presented itself. After all, it Isn't such a bad layout is it? Why not help someone else tweak it like you did here instead of reinventing it. That is my point about the culture of the forum, really.

I hadn't realized the kitchen was already gone when I posted before, but if we provided some food for thought accidentally, maybe we helped someone else not rip out their kitchen and re-do prior to selling. If 2 houses are side by side and identical, save for the kitchen, the one with the new kitchen sells for no more than $10k more and often less of a difference (not counting luxury kitchens in expensive homes).
One of the selling points to the house we are in was that I could get a kitchen done my way because this kitchen needed doing. If it had been pleasant, but just not my style, I'd have been stuck with it for a long time. If it had been all new but not my style, I definitely would have shied away because I would have never updated it. BTW - I found GW while researching how to proceed and was not a TKO GWer looking for a project to do when we bought, lol.

I have to disagree about the OTR micro for the most part. It is not something I want in my own kitchen, but is very popular with the general public. Despite GWers' distaste for them, most people care little about venting and think it is great they are off the counter. I have a newly installed one in a listing of mine and the comments have been entirely favorable about it. The consensus here is not what the less educated consumers agree with. You are not selling the house to one of us. You are not selling it to a family member or loved one. As long as you are ethical and use safe building materials and practices, you do not owe a buyer any more than honesty. Just because you love great venting does not mean others share your passion.
I'll give you a quick example of what I mean. When we bought our first house, we put in an apartment with a small kitchen. There were cabs and a sink with a bar fridge on the den level (someone may have once rented out in prior years). I removed the bar fridge and put an apartment size stove there. I then bought a small full size fridge and installed it on another wall by adding electrical where it hadn't been. I had a small island made to give more counter space and storage. I had to special order an island faucet and sink to fit the small sink space since I did not like the small sink and tiny knobs on the faucet already there. I was so proud of the much nicer setup and figured it would help us get and keep tenants. We rented to our first tenant and he worked in a restaurant. He never cooked at home. We'd see him go out and come back with takeout frequently on his days off. The next guy would bring dinner home on his way home from work. His brother took over when he moved out and did the same. Our last tenant asked us to remove the movable island so he could set up his large sectional couch. He never cooked either. I spent well over $1,500 to make it a nicer kitchen and my efforts were ignored by everyone who used it. The single mom who bought the house from us put her mom in that space and took out the kitchen altogether. I wasted time and money...

Sorry I haven't piped up before--sometimes inspiration doesn't come. Hope you're feeling better.

I like Buehl's idea for the microwave.

If that doesn't work, however, I had another thought. Since what you've drawn is a cubby for a microwave, and level with the cabinet on the other side of the range, why not make them symmetrical. When you stage the kitchen put a microwave (or cardboard cutout) on one side, and cookbooks on the other. You can list on the features that there are outlets so that the MW can be on either side. Let the future owners figure out where they like it best. The other cubby could be used for a charging station, quick grab cooking items (S&P, etc.), an oversized pot, or whatever they like. You could even supply a lift up door that they can install if you want to get all fancy pants about it.

Dianalo, that's such a sad story! I'm sure I would have loved your cute little kitchen...

I have not followed this thread and am a little appalled to ascertain that the formidable rhome has been feeling, um, a little shredded. I'm guessing this is in some small part at least because you (a) don't feel well from a cold and (b) don't feel well about the aging of your inlaws. Not to mention the moot suggestions about not doing anything when that is no longer an option.

...Or is it? you could *try* offering your services as KD and contractor to a prospective buyer and this way you could create a space commensurate with the neighborhood and please some unknown customer too? I am guessing all the realtors are madly shaking their heads No! at the suggestion, but I dunno, it could make for a distinguished sale-option that sets you apart in a hard-to-please market?

Just a thought, perhaps a little out-there. I can only imagine how very emotional this whole project must be. Whatever you do will be a kind improvement. You are obviously honorable sellers.

Interesting thought, Plllog! I will put that one past my cabinet maker. I need to draw up Buehl's idea, because I think better in 3D. ;-)

Thanks for your concern and input, Aliris. I'm sure the house cannot go up for sale without the kitchen, but it's an interesting thought.

I am sooo sorry if in any way I made you feel like I was criticizing your ideas. Everyone here knows that you give some of the most sound advice on this board. I was however trying to offer a different perspective. I (unfortunately) know from experience how truly un-kitchen-educated 99% of buyers in the market are today and that's what I was trying to get across. For example if someone who has never visited this site saw the quite wonderful kitchen you have planned, they are very likely to think, "Oh my gosh, there are no lower cabinets. Where will I store all my things?" To prove my point....how many times on this forum have we been asked to defend the "all drawers" philosophy? To the uninitiated at first glance, a kitchen with all drawers lacks storage. Likewise with the lack of OTR microwave. Again the uneducated will likely see your kitchen and think, "Oh my, they've wasted precious counter (or cabinet) space for the microwave. Why in the world didn't they put in one of those wonderful combination microwave hood things?"

For what it's worth I do think that you are doing the right thing by renovating the kitchen, especially since you'll get a deal on the cabinets. I know it will be lovely. Here's to hoping that the most awesome TKO home buyer walks into the house as soon as it goes on the market! Good luck and please continue to share your progress.

Well, I started with a kitchen very much like the original and ended up with one very much like the proposed. It's not that different because dangit it WORKS. It's a good layout.

And sorry to spook you about the drawers. Nobody is likely to notice them. Nobody noticed mine except the guy who had to paint them. :)

It's goood.

Nice plan Rome! I hope you don't mind me adding some of my cheap-out idea money savings plugs. I would do same size natural cherry cabinets with open shelving (no doors) on both cabinets on each side of range. These area's could be used for a micro and could be staged beautifully for sale with pottery, colorful display plates or whatever. I would do all natural cherry (or other natural wood) on base cabinets as well to eliminate the paint up charge. I would eliminate one of the drawer banks on base and change to doors. All the other uppers would remain the same/ painted. Some people like wood some people like painted some people do not like two tone. However, you would be splitting the difference, saving some money And it would all look very nice.

P.S. or natural maple base and open shelf cabinets with a pale gray painted upper would look real pretty. (Maple is even cheaper).

Another thing to think about is who the buyers are likely to be. In my neighborhood, for instance, we'll almost certainly sell our 2/1 to another young single or couple who are first-time owners---that's pretty much the MO around here, unless the direction of our city takes a dramatic turn. I was a very different first-time shopper than I will be the next time around---no idea what to look for, no good sense of exactly what was what. I only vaguely registered much about the kitchen before we lived here---just noticed that it didn't have a dishwasher and we'd want to add one, and it had a cool stove, and that's basically it. And all that's as an active cook, with a background in housing, having grown up in an old house my parents restored---I can only imagine my perspective had this all been completely new! Next time we do this, in contrast, I'll be looking at plumbing connections and model numbers on appliances and kitchen layouts, yadda yadda yadda. If you think those are the type of buyers in this neighborhood versus the first-timers vs. retirees---each of those groups will have slightly different comfort levels with and responses to trends.

I will say, though, that the kitchen we took out, which was built in 1940 to replace our original kitchen, was all drawers except for the blind corners and the uppers....so some people had clearly been thinking along those lines before present day! ;) (Some fun local trivia is that Lillian Gilbreth, who helped develop the science of kitchen design and efficiency in the 30s and 40s, grew up on our street....maybe the people who lived here then were tapped into some of her concepts??)

Thanks, Fori...I hadn't thought about it being like your plan! But we're not doing marble under the big window. ;-) And Jterrilyn, thank you for the encouragement and input, but because we're doing this ourselves (building and finishing the cabs), it'll be much less expensive for us to do paint grade doors and drawer fronts than to buy the cherry or maple.

NCAmy, it was just the cost concern over drawers that didn't apply in our situation. I'm trying to discern from everyone whether the all-drawers will be a problem with appeal. That is a concern. Thanks.

Palimpsest, this is my explanation for sometimes re-arranging plans instead of 'just tweaking' (I definitely stick to 'sometimes,' because a lot of the time I only tweak, rather than do a complete redraw.): People who come here aren't usually looking for an "OK" kitchen, but one they're spending a lot of money on and want to love and use. Isn't it best to see other ideas and then decide which works best for them? It's not as if they can't go back to the original, or a version of it, if they want. It's about alternatives and options. There is less 2nd guessing later if you've seen and considered all the options and truly decided the plan you've built is the best one for the space and for your specific needs. JMO...which is all I got! :-D

Rhome, about the drawers, I don't think most prospective buyers would even notice. Those who did notice would more than likely like the idea, if not at first then when the realtor assured them that it's the trend in kitchens these days.

I think most people tend to notice surfaces (i.e., cabinet color, countertops, appliance finishes) rather than the functional aspects of a kitchen that GWers tend to hone in on. So, as long as your colors are neutrals that won't offend, I doubt that many of the details will matter. You will likely appreciate the functionality far more than the prospective buyer--at least until they move in.

While I personally don't agree with your decision to rip out the old kitchen because in this market, I don't think you'll get back what it costs, as you said, the old kitchen is gone, which means you have to put something in. That being said, I think your new layout works much better and gives better space for the area. Can't wait to see what it looks like. The best you can do now is go generic in terms of look; neutral colors, simple backspash, etc.

While I personally don't agree with your decision to rip out the old kitchen because in this market, I don't think you'll get back what it costs, as you said, the old kitchen is gone, which means you have to put something in. That being said, I think your new layout works much better and gives better space for the area. Can't wait to see what it looks like. The best you can do now is go generic in terms of look; neutral colors, simple backspash, etc.

I can't believe this thread is stuck on a moot point. I don't know that area, but in mine the new kitchen could make a huge difference in neighborhoods where there's a lot of inventory. When I first saw this thread, my reaction was that I didn't know what to do with that kitchen but that it was destined to go no matter who did it. Buyers who might be seeing similar kitchens in the similar houses in this neighborhood might be thrilled to see such a pretty and functional kitchen that isn't just a cheap fix up that still needs to go, but something that's done and ready for them. Some buyers really are looking for turnkey. Just that china hutch, a definite Rhome touch, could charm a buyer. People say they're looking for a separate family room and an office, but they buy the inconvenient house with the great tree, or the loud house with the amazing built-ins. Given that there will be a new kitchen before sale, and given that it's an upscale neighborhood, I agree that making it a quality, functional, lovely kitchen is worthwhile. Does it matter whether the $20K is lost on the kitchen or lost on sup-par offers from people who don't want to tackle the project?

plllog - the time and effort won't be spent if you accept an offer for $20k less vs spending $20k to get the same result in your pocket (and they may pay commission and taxes on the higher amount). The time spent fixing up, could have been time the house was listed for sale that someone who may have loved it would have seen it. The reason everyone is harping on the moot point is to discourage anyone else from jumping into the same situation. It was not Rhome's decision to rip out, so it should not hurt her feelings.
Also, everyone has acknowledged her ability to make a great kitchen, but several (including me) are saying it does not make a good business decision to do what her family did none the less.

I think it will come out nice and may sway someone to buy the house and pay well for it. At least it will be tasty lemonade in the end, lol.

My point was that while you're right that someone might have loved and bought it as is, it could also have just languished because someone didn't want to deal with the kitchen. There are no absolutes, especially in business, and I think the people who know the particular market, and the house in question as well as the competition, are in the best position to evaluate whether it's worthwhile. Plus, given the description, I'd be surprised if the carrying costs were a big concern.

There's also the emotional component. By fixing up the house and making it over, the children of the couple who lived there so long have a chance to say good-bye, and to make it into someone else's house instead of the home they loved so well, where the grandchildren flocked for hugs and cookies, etc. It makes it much easier to let go, and to just sell it in a dispassionate way. It may also help them to put love into the face lift rather than trying to get in the first buyer who's willing to rip it to shreds.

This might not be the best course for many people at other times, but there are a lot of intangibles on the bottom line in addition to dollars and cents.

rhome, I just saw this thread for the first time. I heard what you were saying about the home, neighborhood and market and I think you are in the VERY enviable position of being able to pull this off as a largely or entirely DIY project. There is always some uncertainty about return and we do tend to tell folks not to make the major changes for resale. It's too hard to predict. That said, when done well and efficiently, for the right reasons and in the right time and place, it can be such a smart thing to do.

With that in mind, I went and looked at the blog post. OK, with that view -- yeah, you can sell a house with an original kitchen. But folks who want that view are probably going to want a kitchen that looks great too. The folks who are willing to even consider doing the work and spend the months and sleepless nights getting there -- those who don't walk away, are likely to knock $50K or even a good bit more off what they'd be willing to pay. I am sure no one is going to figure they could have a whole new kitchen for $12K more.

This is not an average tract home in an average location and you are not an average person with average (zero) skills. You can do a lot more for a lot less than nearly any of the rest of us and are dealing with a house in a location where I think it will pay off more than most of our homes.

I think your layout makes the space look like it's about 50% larger. That makes it feel like an even better investment -- folks want bigger brighter kitchens now. And realtors always say that kitchens and bathrooms sell houses. Well, that and location, location, location -- with a great view! :-) Your elevations on the blog look even better than the floor plan.

Plus, you will have the satisfaction and pride of selling the home at its best -- and I get that. I did, however, like the idea of a drawer micro in that space -- that would free up an upper, avoid the swing conflict and still leave you with good drawer storage, I think you'd still have pretty good use of space. The splurge on the drawer micro might be just the kind of thing that makes the whole job look more high end and makes folks want to jump at the deal! That and the fully custom cabinets. And that view.

So there, you've got one sucker sold down in Texas. I hope the work goes smoothly and that you find a buyer who loves everything and appreciates the wonderful combination of a gorgeous lakefront view and a house that has the headaches already solved. Best of luck to your family with the changes.

Thanks, Plllog and Lascatx for understanding our situation and for the additional input. Another thing no one has taken into account here is the expense and effort to care for and maintain a house when we all have lives elsewhere, so if selling time is extended to find a person willing to take on a big project, it costs us money and much more.

Good idea, Lascatx. Would it look odd to put the micro drawer right next to the stove?

I saw a kitchen one time on TV, maybe it was a house flipping show, where the MW drawer was next to the stove. Didn't look strange to me.

Thanks. I'll definitely take a look at them.

Rhome- I don't have any layout advice or real estate advice to offer either, but I wanted to say good luck with everything! I think whoever gets this kitchen is lucky to have a kitchen designed by you!

I have sold real estate in a lake community and own a home with gorgeous lake views. Traditionally these homes will always sell if they are priced right for the current market because lake buyers will swoop in in a bad economy looking for a deal.

IMOHO I think Rhome's family made a good decision to upgrade the kitchen. Seasonal cottages have dated kitchens where buyers plan on upgrading and plan on paying less. Year round homes are expected to have semi-modern kitchens and if they don't, it becomes the major bargaining point for the buyers. Granted we don't know who her buyers will turn out to be or what they will want for a kitchen, but they won't be able to quibble about an out-dated kitchen. Whatever they choose to do from there is their own decision.

Rhome I'm sure your market has an established bottom end and your realtor can predict what the least $$$ the house should go for. What your realtor can't predict is how long it will sit but... here's the upside- lake buyers often work with realtors for years "waiting" for just the right piece and price to come on the market. Once your home gets listed my bet is phone calls will go out to buyers who have been in the wing waiting.

If you (DH's family)really want to move it and the realtor is at all hesitant about the market, price it reasonably from the start. The steal for the buyer will be a new, well designed kitchen, "comparably priced" to other homes with modern kitchens. Your gift of sweat equity is really a gift to yourselves because it may just move it faster. I believe you will get your money back but beware of letting the realtor seduce you into pricing it with a new custom kitchen price tag, because that will also be a quibbling point, and if you lose that first bit of momentum with long time lookers, it could be sometime before a new prospective buyer comes nosing around.

Your trump card will be "turn-key", "new to the market", and BETTER comparably priced than the competion. I hope that makes sense.

I think microwave drawers are terrific, but in my opinion that's over personalizing the kitchen. Can you make a pot drawer that could be retrofitted to a drawer MW and leave it up to the new owners?

I agree it's a good solution to the problem, but it's a "stuck with it" if people don't like it, and a pricey one, whereas a cubby is a useful shelf if they prefer a countertop model.

Thanks so much Gillylily.

Plllog, I remembered when I started to research the drawer micro that we were trying to think of a way to offer the space for a microwave without buying and installing another builtin.

Thank you for your input, Never Ending. The realtor seems very practical and not prone to overpricing. She knows our priorities and goals well.

That's actually a salt-water view. :-)

rhome~~

I read most of these posts....sure a lot of different opinions....but that is the reason we post on the forum.

I don't know if I missed the original or not, but would you please post pictures of this kitchen when you are done....I am sure it will be very nice.

Good luck in the sale.

Rhome, while I love my new drawer MW, I agree that not everyone would. I've gotten pro and con comments from others about it. It took me quite a while to convince my DH that it would be better and he's still not 100% about it, so you might want to do what plllog suggested instead.

"Good idea, Lascatx. Would it look odd to put the micro drawer right next to the stove?"

Not at all. That's where I have mine -- right between the cooktop and the table and I really like it there. It supports cooking and baking but is also easy for someone to heat up something while I'm doing something else in the kitchen and not get in the way. I'd rather leave the micro out all together or put an inepensive one in that corner you have than have an OTR.

The micro drawer takes roughly the same space as the top two drawers of a 3 drawer stack. It's actually a bit less, but that is the way my cabinet person set it up to match the other drawers. We figured we'd just go back in with drawers or put a counter top micro into that space if the drawer didn't work.

I disagree that a micro drawer is too personalized. It's no more personalized than having a micro of any other sort, but it does cost more. While you get things going, maybe you can leave that option open. Have the power outlet at the wall under counter and have the option of putting in deep pot drawers on that side, a countertop micro under counter, or even an under counter appliance garage idea (maybe the drawer front folds down and creates a landing space if you can engineer the support and hinging). While you consider those options, keep your eyes open for a Craig's list option or some other great deal that might make the decision for you.

Is this a weekend or vacation community or more likely to be a buyer who will live there full-time? For me, that would probably make a difference onthe kind of cooking I would be doing there and what I would want in a kitchen.

I think a new kitchen is going to be a great selling point, but I'm not sure if anyone has ever not bought a house over a microwave. I would look for one or a place to put one, and that counter corner you have would work for me if there was no micro built-in (had that a couple of houses ago and preferred it to the OTR in the previous house). If there was no counter space to have a micro or a floor spot for a cart, then it might be an issue -- but I think you are fine just about any route on the micro.

Thanks again to all of you.

Phoggie, if you're interested, the pictures of the original are posted on my blog. I'll supply the link below.

Lascatx, it is definitely not a vacation community, but all permanent residences...So we want to give the house a full kitchen that can meet a family's needs, daily and year-around.

Here is a link that might be useful: Blog posts that show the kitchen

It is definitely the right thing to update the kitchen to sell. We did exactly that last spring for an elderly relative who needed to move. The house sold in 10 days for near asking price (the highest so far in the neighborhood) and the buyers mentioned the kitchen as a major selling point. We got great feedback on the kitchen and bathrooms which were also updated with the same cabinets. I used an OTR microwave as there really weren't any good options. There was no negative feedback on that at all.

Because we did much of the work ourselves and shopped around for the rest it didn't cost that much and made all the difference in selling or not. There's no doubt that we received a good return on the investment.

So here it is....The Kitchen That Sold the House in 10 Days!

If you want a full time family kitchen, I'd plan a spot for a microwave then. Actually, I'd want one even more if it was a vacation spot. No longer sure why I asked since I'd want one regardless. ;-)

Personally, I'd probably go drawer or buy the $38 micro I saw on clearance at Target tonight and stick it in the one corner where anything else would get lost anyway. I guess I go from one extreme to the other, but I don't really like the chunk out of the upper cabinet on one side. I don't get hung up on symmetry, and IRL it would probably be fine, but on paper, it bothers me. I'd rather have the OTR than that, and that's hard for me to say. LOL

Not one single right answer out there -- you have options and I'm sure you'll make a good choice. It's going to be great.

Thanks for sharing your experience and your input, Steff_1. And the photo...Nice!

Lascatx, and everyone else, I have made a decision on the microwave...unless you all look at it and decide it's horrible for some reason, of course. I think I will follow Buehl's advice and put it over the short side of the L to the right of the dining room doorway. At first I thought it might be a problem to have the deeper mw cabinet next to the upper corner cabinet...But then I decided to pull that corner cabinet out from the dining room wall 3" so that its front will be flush with the mw cabinet. This loses 3" in the cabinet next to the window, but I don't think that's a big deal.

We will leave both the space for the fridge and for the microwave empty.

{{gwi:2109901}}

I think that looks very nice.

Good choice! That looks great.

Looks good to me too. Much better there than by the range. Close enough when needed, but also gives some separation and is the cleanest visual solution other than a drawer -- which looking at it again could be problematic by the doorway or between the range and fridge for the same open and close clearances and conflicts as in the uppers. I knew you'd make a good choice. :-)

I think it looks great.. And is that really the view? That in and of itself would make me want to buy that house. Not to mention the beautiful new kitchen! :). Can't wait to see the real deal!

Thanks rhome for posting the kitchen...it will be beautiful...and can't wait for the finished project.
What a view!!! With a new kitchen, that house will sell in a heart-beat~~~ Keep us posted...and keep up the good work you do on this forum...I for one, really appreciate it and always read any post your make.

Thank you, thank you. I'm feeling good about this one. DH is going to build the upper corner cab deeper on that side, so there is no gap from beneath.

Gillylily, the 'view' you see in the renderings is just a software option that's as close as I could get. A photo of the real view (even better, I think) is shown on my blog, linked below. :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: all blog posts about the remodel