Thanks for the responses; it is an interesting perspective that both of you recommend sulfur, just in different ways. And I have no problems with the DWN instructions MrClint, the issue I guess is just availability. I don't believe any forest-byproduct soil is offered here, and if I were to buy soil sulfur for the "handful" they recommend I would be forced to purchase a 50lb bag of Tiger 90 as that's the only sulfur I've found on the island, and I cannot justify purchasing spending the money to purchase a 50 lb bag for one blueberry plant with my current budget. Thanks for the link though; I'll try to use as much of their information as I can apply :)

As to the peat moss component of their soil mix there is a similar issue as they're usually sold in larger portions than smaller, and again this is only for one plant. MrClint what are your thoughts on the pine bark only mix? I just sifted the bark out of old potting soil I already had so there was no extra cost to me.

I'm not familiar with the Dr Earth brand or its salt content but regardless it is not available here; I have seen Plant-Tone but cannot remember if there was also Holly-Tone and I will have to check the next time I visit town. I would prefer to know the basics of soil structure along with DWN recommendations as I am facing the issue that Drew refers to, which is lack of available ingredients. And would slightly composted pine bark count as decomposing organic material? I do have water insoluble/granular-slow-release fertilizer but I doubt it's organic....

As to your tap water the consensus would be you can have a high pH water with little to no bicarbonates? Or even if there are some the methods you use to acidify your soil counters them? It is interesting that the U of F recommendations are contrary to your experiences; I wonder if climate has anything to do with this? Our rate of evaporation, for example, seems much higher down here, and I can say for sure that the sun intensity is much higher. Nurseries do seem to have conflicting information sometimes which is confusing for me, as this nursery recommends using coffee grounds to acidify soil for blueberries even though the grounds themselves are close to neutral (and they even list DWN as a resourse): Sunnyside Local Nursery. Also interesting is the fact that most nurseries (i.e. large-scale operations) do in fact acidify their irrigation water; I wonder why they don't usually recommend doing so in their guides when they do it themselves? :(

MrClint, if climate is responsible for the difference in advice (for example they recommend planting in mid-December/February, which would be in the midst of your winter), would it be better to follow their advice than DWNs as my climate is more similar to the former? UofF Blueberry Guide

I agree all gardening is local, but there is still much to be gained from shared experiences and the expertise of seasoned growers in fields that someone such as myself is just venturing out into :)This may be off-topic but I think I remember reading that one or more of you grows raspberries too: are they as finicky? I did see some Mysore Raspberries at the nursery as well, not sure if they are self-fertile or what have you but if I can get away with growing one of them in a container (and not having to hassle with acidity and such as much) and get production that would be great! Thoughts/experienced tips? :)

Some people are blessed with growing conditions where they don't have to put as much "thought" into their gardening in the sense of needing to adjust conditions I guess. And of course some plants are less fickle than others. My grandmother's crotons seem to thrive on neglect, for example:

And my uncle's pineapple, which I'm sure he doesn't even feed (uses generic potting soil too):

Also forgot to mention I found it funny when you called me Bdan Drew; I read it as "Birthday Dan" as my birthday was this Sunday ;D

And @Drew I was reading this forum and noticed you seem to mulch your plants with pine needles, even the container ones? Could you expound on that? They are in ridiculous abundance here (inland from the beaches is covered with pine trees) so if that works it would be a great free (and lightweight?) mulch :D Here's The Link :D

Happy birthday! Also my apologies for being rude to Mrclint, sorry Mrclint.

Yes, fruit trees are just as hard. I have raspberries Mysore is a purple raspberry, a cross of black and red raspberries. It should grow in your area. Self fertile, less fussy. But sometimes they can be a pain. Say a local bug loves them, or the birds, etc.

Yes my in-laws live in upper Michigan and have hundreds of pine trees on the property. They settle in, hardly move. Easy to use in pots. Keep moisture in, especially in pots. The ones I use most are soft and easy to handle. Longer ones are better but the ones I use are free.

I do forage some locally too and they are harder and I need gloves. My main purpose for them is to cover my strawberries in winter. Some use Straw (hence the name!), but pine straw works well too.

It's always good to mulch. I also like them because they don't really tie up nitrogen, and so in the spring I just throw compost and such over them, instead of having to move say pine bark or wood chips which you do not want to incorporate into soil. I put fresh pine straw on top. This year I may use shredded leaves too as mulch.

bahamadan, where did you buy your blueberry bush? Where did you buy the rose food? Do they have a potting soil for acid loving plants such as azaleas? Do they have a water insoluble organic fertilizer? Small bark mulch will work, I've used redwood path bark in a pinch. I don't know where you would get any of this, and I don't know if shifting out wood pieces from other products will work. Now if you bought everything mail order and are trying to grow blueberries because of what you read here, you may have fungal diseases, pollination issues and pests that none of us have to deal with. Get the potting soil mix right and you still may not be out of the woods because *all gardening is local*.

Organic soil sulfur can be bought in small or large bags. I use the Espoma brand.

I saw nothing in the DWN instructions that references potting them up in Winter. I'm not sure where that came from so I can't speak to it. BB are sold here much cheaper (as low as $10 in small sleaves) in Winter along with bareroot trees.

bahamadan,

You are right that the bicarbonates in tap water will determine if you have to apply acid to the water. Under 92 PPM is considered ideal, 92-153 ppm marginal, and over 153 ppm is not recommended.(according to Growing Fruits and Nuts in the South by Adams and Leroy). I can get by with tap water in Southeast Texas because of low bicarbonates and heavy rainfall. I would not try it in areas with limestone in the watershed.

I bought a Mysore raspberry last year and it has grown well this winter, but it has not bloomed yet. It did not appear to like the hot weather and is recommended to have afternoon shade. It is not a true raspberry and some like it, others don't. If it fruits this spring I will tell you how my family likes them. They like the heritage red raspberry but do not care Anne yellow raspberry.

As far as finding a source for peat, you could just substitute Miracle Gro potting mix, it is basically peat with a little perlite added. I don't think they adjust the pH with lime.

I think Miracle Grow is adjusted. You don't want to use it anyway as it contains Ammonium nitrate which will hurt your blueberry plant.

If you do not apply sulfur to your soil, and your soil is not at the proper PH you're in trouble, One way to do it is to add acid in the water. It can be applied this way no matter how many bicarbs are in your water. I use rainwater and add acid. No bicarbs there. I'm not putting it into the water to neutralize carbonates. I put it in the lower the PH of the soil. I also monitor the PH so once it's right I stop. I have to keep doing this because some of my plants are in raised beds. Slowly the surrounding soil pulls the hydrogen out of the beds. One fall my bed was 4.8. Winter came, i stopped watering, when spring came I tested the soil and it was 6.5. Over the winter the acidity washed out, or was pulled out by the ground soil which is basic. Part of this is my fault as I put 1/3 leaf mold in, which is neutral. If I just put pine bark and peat moss the soil would have stayed acidic. In another bed I used compost and the same thing, as compost is also neutral. I found a peat based compost, and have to see if that would work.

When you add sulfur bacteria change it to sulfuric acid, just in case anybody is not understanding. Adding acid is immediate using sulfur takes 6-12 months to change PH.

Drew,

Bahamadan is planting into a pot so the native soil will not matter. His problem is the pH being raised by the water, not the potting mix. A potting mix for acid loving plants would be best to replace the peat moss and add the pine bark, ect. to increase drainage. I based that Miracle Grow was not adjusted not being able to grow spinach due because of low pH. Had to add alot of lime to get pH up to 6.5. Native soils will try to go back to what it was originally unless it is raised by adding lime or lowered by adding sulfur or fertilizer.

Yes his water is high in PH for sure. My comments were not really directed at you, just general interest, and different ways to solve the same problem. I myself gave up on trying to alter native soil. Like if you throw in 50 pounds of salt in lake Michigan, the water is still going to taste fresh. Sure locally you can change it but it's a continuous battle. It can be done, I just decided that is not the hill I want to die on. I went to raised beds, and even there the native soil has some influence. A lot less though! As I mentioned over winter the PH creeps up. I keep adding pine and sulfur but I only have to do it once a year. I adjust it with sulfuric acid in the water. or not, depending on what readings I get. My tap water is 7.8 I forget the carbonate content? I use it to raise PH if needed.

I'm not sure what soil would work well in the Bahamas? Dan is going to have to figure that out. For example he might actually want to decrease drainage.

You know peat moss get's a bad rape, blueberries love it!

Hullo all; sorry for the late responses. I've seen most of the replies but been incredibly busy recently and not able to post a full reply yet. I did take a photo of the new growth this morning for an update. From what I remember the reddish tinges suggest the pH is still to high? Will try to get a full-reply up between today and tomorrow :)

I also don't meant to suggest that it's extremely difficult to grow things here in general; I have had decent success with some other plants, I guess they handle the bicarbonate load better Scroll down this thread for some pictures

For one small pot you can use distilled water bought in the store. pH will be 5.3 the same as a rain water. Or you can boil the water and if it is rich in the carbonates you'll see the sedimentation on the bottom. This should help to reduce carbonate level. Again for the small pot you can add vinegar instead of sulfuric acid. I add 1 cup of 6% vinegar to 10 gallon bucket of my tap water with pH 8.8 and it makes pH of 5. My water is not very high in carbonates though.

Sorry, it should be 10 liter bucket not 10 gallon.

Yes, the reddish tinge could mean it's too high, probably does. Sometimes they just do that anyway. Well a response to cold, which in your case, is not the case. It's not bad though, they should grow all the same now. Keep it up! Or down in this case :)

New growth on blues can take on several different colors. I wouldnt be concerned with the color of the new growth unless its chlorotic and yellow or bright pink, chlorotic being the key. I would how ever prune off all the dead branches above your new growth ASAP. One good thing about Sunshine Blue is it will tolerate a higher Ph then most all other blueberries. Good luck, its looking much better!

Well here's an update about 2 months and one week later: I kept up with the acidifying water for the most part but it's a bit of a guesstimation as I don't have a pH meter that reads lower than 6.8 (my dad's pool kit....) but one I did do that I think made alot of difference is took the pot off the patio and put it on the grass. I didn't realize living in the tropics how much the patio heats up in the day, and I think that was really affecting the root systems of this blueberry and some of my other plants. I have a container papaya as well that only started significantly setting fruit when I took it off the patio.

Anyway, here's some pictures from exactly a month ago. It's grown a bit more since then too even though I only fertilize about once a month now; in fact the roots are starting to grow through the bottom of the pot into the soil which seems to be a sign it could use a repot :

It's in basically just sifted bark with some perlite, but if I repot it it'll have to be in conventional potting mix as that's all I have on hand. I think I could use the acidified water to keep the pH down in that situation as well right? Thoughts? :)

Dan

Nice plants you have there.

Thanks Dan for checking in! Yes, the acid in the water is a great way to control pH in any soil, in a container environment. So keep it up. Good catch about the heat! Yes, it can cause major problems. If you can include some of the pine from the original mix, do so.

Looking closely at the photos, that foliage is exactly what you want, good job brother!

thanks jodi and no problem drew. some confusion as the new growth seems to be exhibiting symptoms of both high and low pH?

Looks like overwatering, or needs fertilizer, not nitrogen (N)PK and micros.
Low or high PH are both red.

Just curious as to what indicates the possibility of overwatering? I'm not saying you're wrong; we have had rain for the past few days, although this was showing up before then. And I fertilized this with ammonium sulphate a week ago (2 teaspoons/5 gal), maybe the plant hasn't had the opportunity to metabolize it from the soil yet I guess. And thanks for expounding; I thought you or someone else had said in another thread that high pH was chlorotic and low pH was red-tinged. If red can also be due to high pH then I'd lean on it probably being too high, as our rain I believe is over 7 on the scale, and will all the rain the past few days that might have driven the alkalinity of the soil solution up.

Well I can't say for sure with blueberries, but tomatoes, and peppers turn yellow when over watered. it's a sign of a root problem. It's not getting nutrients, so turns yellow. The roots could still be hot, maybe a light colored container would be better? It probably isn't over watering as I have seen mine pretty wet, and they seem not to mind. Ammonium sulfate is nitrogen, and they love it, but they need potasium, phosphorus, and trace minerals too, so you have to fertilize with something that has those. AS is only nitrogen 21-0-0. I think with a potassium deficiency leaves turn yellow too.

I forgot to mention that I had to pop a bit of the roots at the bottom as they had grown through the bottom of the container and into the soil a bit, and I took off the bottom 1/5th or so of soil to help them spread out a bit. So maybe they're still recuperating as you say. There's still P and K in the soil mix I used from the slow release I grew the other plants in, and lots of breaking down organic matter from their roots. My only thing with using something other than 21-0-0 is that the only other thing I have is a slow release that contains muriate of potash, and that seems to be a big no no from what I've read on the forum....

ahoy there, here's an update: it's leafing out decently on a couple canes and the leaves seem to be fairly green overall (and sort of sheeny in certain lighting) so hopefully Im acidifying the water near the right pH. as to providing K and P what do you think about this fertilizer my local store recently started carrying? its much cheaper than some of the other ones per pound (looking at you espoma and holly-tone) and contains no nitrates. its nitrogen is from mostly ammonium.

and a picture of the whole plant, you can see what I mean about it seeming to favor leafing out on selective canes

Yes, the fertilizer is perfect. Azalea's have the same requirements blueberries do. The plant looks to be heading in the right direction. They do have a sheen, amd can look blue-green too. It should get bigger and bigger each year. Good job!

thank you! its been a big work in progress but i am grateful when i see how different it looks now from the jumble of browning canes it was last summer. im thinking i could supplement the slow release in the pink bag fert with some of this soluble stuff in the first photo when i water sometimes? another slow release option is the miracle gro shake n feed in the 2nd n 3rd photos, which one do you think would work better for the slow release part of this two-part fert scheme?

thank you! its been a big work in progress but i am grateful when i see how different it looks now from the jumble of browning canes it was last summer. im thinking i could supplement the slow release in the pink bag fert with some of this soluble stuff in the first photo when i water sometimes? another slow release option is the miracle gro shake n feed in the 2nd n 3rd photos, which one do you think would work better for the slow release part of this two-part fert scheme?

They make an acid loving slow release but it is expensive.
Well the Miracid is probably the best. You can give 1/4 dose at each watering if you prefer a small dosage approach. Some say this is the best method. On the slow release as long as the slow release product is urea, it would work too. You could go that route. I would have preference with any that have ammonium sulfate as that not only feeds, but lowers the pH when used. Using 1/4 dose at each watering would keep pH very steady.

Although using AS yourself does the same thing. As I stated I do it once a month, I also use sulfuric acid in the water. My Chandler is leafing out and loaded with flowers. All my blueberries will produce some except Sweetcrisp. I hacked it back hard. Next year for sure. And many will keep increasing production every year for the next 4 years. Life is good!

that shake n feed is a slow release, it may be hard to make out but it says for azeleas and such and says feeds up to 3 months. your plants look good! i dont necessarily plan to stop the ammonium sulfate but its like 12 bucks for 4 lbs here whereas that pink bagged one is 10 for 20 lbs, i think the shake and feed and the liquid one are both primarily urea-based for their N

Re: the azalea fert, isn't muriate of potash bad for BBs?

As for fertilizing, the consensus is 1/4" tsp of miracid (or ammonium sulfate or Jack's Acid Special) with every gallon of water. Water couple times a week.

not sure, drew?

as for fertilizing, thats about roughly one full tsp once a week. ive been doin 1 tsp per 2.5 gallons monthly but last month switched to 1 tsp per gallon twice a month, i like your 1/4 tsp method

I do not know what to tell you.

I grow only organic Blueberry Plants.

Good luck.

no problem jolj, I am very glad that works for you. i like organic as well but the organic fertilizers here are much more expensive

SunshineBlue needs 150 chill hours to get fruit. How are you going to manage that in the bahamas?

Chill hours are a little overstated. Here's a study done in Hawaii: http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/F_N-12.pdf

I tend to take chilling hours with a grain of salt, especially for lower chill varieties nice guy (pretty cool that you're in Japan by the way, sugoi!). For example, the Golden Dorsett apple is listed as (300 hours or less) chill requirement, but the variety itself was first discovered on Nassau, Bahamas, and fruits easily in my country which never frosts......most people here use Anna as its pollinator.

Nice link Jay, also supports my statement that lower chill varieties tend to do okay in the less chilly climates :)

Forgot to post this link to the Golden Dorsett info page

back to blueberries.....here's an update! it's started growing pretty good now that I try and feed it a lil bit of fertilizer in the water once a week. my question is, seeing as how some of the more experienced growers are so big on branching and the like, should I prune the tip of that tall cane in the 2nd photo? it's just emerged and shot up in the last 2 or 3 months, easily over a foot tall now, seems to want to branch out...

I stopped by Home Depot today and checked out Miracle-Gro Shake N' Feed Flowering Trees and Shrubs for acid plants, 8lbs for $15: http://amzn.com/B009QAK3JS

It seems pretty solid, combination of ammonium sulfate and coated urea, no muriate/chloride or nitrates. NPK of 18-6-12 with 6.8% sulfur and 2% iron.

The Vigoro (HD brand) azalea fert looks ok, but has potassium chloride (aka muriate of potash) which is bad for blueberries.

There's an Osmocote Azalea floating around out there, but it may only be available in UK, since discontinued in the US.

Also, there's supposedly a Florikan made for blueberries, but that could be a Florida special for commercial growers.
Otherwise, I can't find any other granular fertilizers, especially controlled release, on the market. Miracle Gro seems to be the only one that's legit.

that shake n feed does seem pretty nice Jay. the azalea one does have potassium chloride which can form sodium chloride in soil, but the latter is very soluble and in my climate washed below the root zone by our sometimes torrential rains. I did also get some soluble miracid which has the iron and none of the nitrate stuff. opted not to get the shake n feed even though it had sulfur because it was much more expensive than the miracid for an even smaller amount, and I like the idea of being able to control my fertilization through a tiny bit of soluble on a regular basis. as a rule I never get osmote nor any of the 'tones' as they are both terrifically expensive here....15 for 8 lbs is amazing. here the same product is at least 27 for 3 or 4 lbs

Aloha, just thought I'd post an update.
The blue is growing pretty good now, I'd say it's on its way to needing a repot in the near future. I recently started wrapping some of the containers with foil and I think it's helping keep the roots a lot cooler, the leaves seem to have greened up a lot in the last week. Here's it on July 23rd, excuse the dead branch as I think I was letting it get too dry then.
I use miracid on it very rarely (need to get better with fertilizing) and bought a 6-4-8 granular for acidic plants to use as a slow release.

Forgot to add my irrigation progress. I found red cabbage makes a cheap and useful pH indicator solution, and worked out that I need 1.5 tsp of 3.3% sulfuric acid per gallon of my city water (which the cabbage tested at 8) to get the pH down to roughly 5. Recently the blue has only had by and large rain water though (which I understand does not affect the mix pH much) as I was away at church camp and we've been blessed with lots of rain from late July to now!

Hi all, little bit of an update. Unfortunately my Sunshine Blue hasn't been doing much for the past couple of months, but that's mostly my fault as I've been lax on watering and of course had no way to manage the pH.

I finally ordered some pH strips a couple days ago and already have the acid so I'm looking forward to getting the fertigation solution and irrigation where they should be for the plant and seeing its response. Planning to probably use ammonium sulfate for fertilizer. Is 25 or 51 pounds too much to buy at one time for one plant?

Hi BahamaDan, I'm succesfully growing several varieties of blueberries in South Africa. I posted a long reply here that disappeared when I changed tabs :( I'll be brief now.

My best performing variety is Brigitta which I believe was developed in Australia. Second best is Centurion. I use a mix of 1/3 each of perlite, acid compost and peat /coco peat in my pots. I top them with a mulch of big pine bark chips. My father-in-law bought some expensive German potting soil for azaleas, for the blueberry I gave him but his plant has been struggling for the past 2 years.

I use only a half handful or so of Ammonium Sulfate per plant in the larger, half whiskey barrel sized terracotta pots. I do that in early spring and early summer. I almost killed one of the plants with a massive dose of the ammonium sulfate, so I'm very careful with it now. On a weekly basis or when I remember, I add a weak dose of either fish emulsion or an organic and water soluble fertiliser for acid loving plants.

Below is my 2 year old Brigitta (one of two in the same style pot). In front of it are O'Neil and Gulf Coast recently bought for me by a friend, as they are said to taste really good and do well in warmer climates. The Brigittas were much smaller than the two in front when I first got them.

lala thanks for your reply! I'm really happy to see someone having success with them in a warmer climate! Unfortunately my blueberry developed some sort of fungal issue over the summer with all the rains and never recovered. I bought a replacement but couldn't keep up with its watering needs and that one also died. I think for now I'll hold off on blueberries and try to get a better handle on cultivating my tropicals and other stuff. When my green thumb is better I'd like to look into revisiting growing blueberries again. Again, thanks for sharing your experience growing them and what works for you, it's very encouraging! :)