Some pics to illustrate my post above. First shows lake kitchen w/ windows to the counter & 2nd shows the angle of view it offers.

Third shows view I would have had if I'd gone counter-height at home. Fourth shows the difference with the raised sill.

Carrie I feel the same way you too, too funny.

I love the look of the frame down to the counter. In my previous home it was not all the way down, but the thick trim was close to touching. I had a beautiful view, it did get spattering on the glass which didn't bother me too much, easy to clean. What I didn't like was it really over time water made the wooden painted trim piece bubbly and nasty. So take that into consideration.

Amck - That's exactly why (I think) I like the counter height - the reason that you don't have them in your home - when I look down, I see garden - when I look straight out & up, I see the neighbor's wall.

dcward89 - Your description is lovely & compelling. Raising the sink gives you that separation - where counter height, well, the sill is basically part of the counter. Thank you for that.

Oh, I love the idea of a regular Carrie's Daily Obsession. You can ask the questions we all don't think to ask, LOL.

I love the look of windows starting at counter height but amck2's photos illustrate why some thought should go into whether or not to do it. Interesting. I don't think I would have thought of considering view.

Amck - those views were really helpful. Thanks so much for taking your
time to illustrate that so well. The truth is that I do have a
not-beautiful patio with chairs a few feet from the proposed window,
but, even so, with the scale of my yard, I think, standing at the sink,
with counter depth (though I think this is a math equation I'm not adept
at figuring out) window, & looking down, my view would still be a
few feet out, so it would be worth it.

Happyallison - Good point about the wood. I think, if I do that, fiberglass (or vinyl) frame might be a better option.

Funkycamper - knowing me, I'll get too excited to do a search on here before posting my question & you'll all be like "uhm, Carrie? This question's been asked like every week since the beginning of time."

View has been a steadily important thing to me from the very start - I think that the combination of loving plants & wildlife & living in a big city make me really want to maximize that aspect, since I'm not surrounded by it in the way that those in the suburbs/country are.

Carrie - please post. I'm bored this week.

I wanted to do what amck2 did in her first pic but didn't have the view for it. I have a better straight out view and so that's where my eye needed to be drawn to. But hers is a beautiful set up. Now, I don't know if it's the combination of the counter, sink and windows that make it so beautiful or what, but that's something to keep in mind.

blfenton - amck2's is gorgeous, isn't it? My view, sadly, is nothing like hers, and I will only have a single window - I've got 30" between cabinets to work with. I do want to maximize the garden view, so I think counter height is the way I'll want to go, unless contractor has some really, really good reason why it won't work for me. I've been searching images, and like the counter height look just fine - though most of the windows, overall, I'm seeing are way wider than mine's going to be.

How high do you plan on that window going? I wonder if it would be aesthetically pleasing and an interesting feature if it went all the way up to the crown molding? Or at least to the top of the cabinets. Of course, the view that high and how it might impact your privacy is also something to consider, right? If there are privacy issues or a bad view up high, a tall, narrow window might be architecturally interesting enough to do but then have the upper glass be either stained or frosted glass to let in light but not view. Bad idea or a great one? I dunno.

Both of amck's views are gorgeous & I love both. My window regret is not doing a ledge. Aren't amck's wooly birds too cute? I would love to have a ledge to display plants & seasonal items.

Amck, now that you're backsplash is in, I think you should post another reveal - a combo of the original pics & your backsplash pics. I believe many people didn't realize (because of the title of the thread) that your original post was a reveal. Is that soapstone at your lakehouse? Lovely.

Carrie B - yes, please post all your obsessions. The TKO (totally kitchen obsessed) will love it.

funkycamper has a good idea. But maybe leave enough height for a fabric valance that can have the same colours in it that you would see in the spring/summer of your garden. That way, in the fall and winter the colours would still be in your vision. I'm not saying that it has to be a floral fabric, it could be striped but with the same colours regardless of what they are.

Funkycamper - interesting question about how high. I do like the idea of the window going up to the crown molding - I think having crown molding going across, with the window coming up to it feels pleasing to me. My house is such a mix of windows/doors, that there's no consistency, so I guess I wouldn't need to worry about that.

Here's what that kitchen view would look like, looking up. Not great, but not terrible. And it is west facing, so some afternoon sun/light, the neighbor's windows are up higher, mostly. And I don't hang out naked in my kitchen, so I'm not worried that someone could see my standing in my sink. However, there is a window (& a bare bulb, left on 24/7 - grrr. The downside to city living) behind that lattice (the lattice was put up to obscure that bare bulb.)

Romy - by ledge, do you mean a raised window sill? If I were to post all my obsessions here, as they arose, this would no longer be the GW/Houzz kitchen forum. It would be renamed something akin to "Carrie_B's... " something or other...

Blfenton - You know, I haven't made up my mind about whether I'll have any kind of valance or curtain. I think I'll have to live with the kitchen before I decide that for sure. I wonder if how tall I make the window will impact whether or not that can happen?

You know, after I posted that my up view wasn't horrible, well, I looked at it again and thought... uhm, well, it's not horrible to me. It's kind of cool south Philly urban. But, to anyone else...

Would the neighbors let you paint a mural on their back wall? LOL

Does your bay window have pretty much the same view as the kitchen window will have? If so, I think you can determine your window height pretty easily. Get some sturdy cardboard and tape it up on the window at the height you are thinking of putting the sill. If needed, live with it for a few days. Then, move the cardboard to the height of the counter and see if it's better or worse. It won't be exactly the same view since your window sticks out past the wall, but it will be close.

I think the view is an important consideration. But I also think just the feeling of more space is worth considering, especially in a small kitchen/house. I'm putting in bigger windows and my view is my driveway and my neighbor's dining room windows. I have decided it is worth it to me to make the kitchen feel more open even though my view isn't great. (I will also be gaining some function as my current single hung windows are so high up on the wall I can't reach them well enough to open them.)

(I'm thinking I might do some hanging baskets from the eaves to improve my view.)

The bay window starts lower to the floor, though. Yes, that's why I suggested covering the lower portion of the bay window so that it would mimic what would be covered by lower cabinets up to the sill height. : )

On a totally different note (not view related). I like having the window up a bit with a ledge since that's where I put the ipad with the recipes (or the news) when cooking. In my case it turns out to be closer to eye height and convenient. If it was down to the counter it would get splattered :) But my kitchen is tiny so there is no other place to put it at all anyway.

I think counterheight window does seem to open up the view. I agree that it can look a bit more modern than the ultra traditional look. I lengthened a window over sink to counterheight, with no regrets. It was one of the few things I knew I wanted from day 1 of planning. I don't have much of a view but somehow, it seems to open up my small, enclosed traditional kitchen. I switched also from a double hung to a casement window. This window eats into my small deck space, so we'll see this spring/summer if it was a mistake.

P.S. If going raised over sink area, work out height based on tile size and window trim size. Some photos I've seen, look like mistakes or more forethought should have been given in determining height.

Crl - good point about the feeling of more space. House's overall footprint is about 12' x 25', so every bit makes a difference! I can't go any wider with my window due to cabinet layout (not going to change that, at this point) but I could make it taller.

Laughable - got that. I wish I could figure out the calculation for how much view I'd lose/gain with, say, 4". Given that the bay is pushed out from the wall, I'm not sure that blocking off the view would be comparable, would it?

Lenzai - I'd probably end up with a plant or two (and/or a cat or two) on the windowsill, and, given cats, that means dirt. I also might put some pretty glass bottles up there. )ne of my cats is a champion plant dirt digger - I suspect that whether the plants are on the windowsill or the counter, there will be dirt on the counter/sink.

Mags - Really, really good point about trim/tiles. If I go with raised, I don't want it to be any higher than 4" off the counter. So, maybe a 4" tile, or maybe less... I think that I also will go with a casement window - and I have thought about it swinging out onto my patio. I think that it will be more over garden than actual patio, though, so that it won't interfere with traffic & no one will whack his/her head on it.

The best decision I made in our remodel was lowering the window to counter height and having the granite flow into it. It give a bit more space behind the sink and it just seems so much more open now. I love love it!

This may not be the most accurate drawing, but it was fun. ; ) I'm guessing that if the window sits at counter height, you'll be able to view your garden about 6' beyond the building. If you move the window up about 4" it jumps the view out to around 9' ish. The little pink line was my measuring stick. I sized it to equal the depth of the base cabinet. If your floor is more than around 30" above ground level, then this isn't very accurate at all.

Kim - so good to hear!

Laughable - I love your drawing - and you even included one of my cats! That's really, really helpful! Thank you so much. Plus, it's really, really cute.

This evening, I stood in front of my bay window & held my hand in front of me to represent where the counter would come up to, and then I raised my hand a few inches (I'd "measured" the counter height against my hip before walking over to the bay - all very scientific) and I didn't like the loss of down-view.

Give that my view is so shallow, that 3' lost due to a 4" rise is pretty significant - maybe tomorrow I'll measure that part of my garden, but it's no more that 15'. Even if I can see the garden beds with the 4" rise, and the only thing the counter depth height would give me in terms of view is that I'd be able to see more of the brick patio, having counter height could mean that I wouldn't have to be looking almost straight down to see the garden, and the garden would not be at the very bottom of my view.

ps: after the fact (ie: after I posted this topic) I searched this site for counter depth windows - there are a plethora of old threads on this very topic!

Glad you liked the drawing. : ) I got a kick out of making it. I just hope I'm not way off on my "measurements."

Hah - well, you didn't use your hip as a measuring tool. :) Tomorrow, I'll measure my steps to figure out just how high up the house is, and I'll try to be a little bit more conscientious with my hand measuring tool, too.

"It's kind of cool south Philly urban." Agree.
I just had my two kitchen windows equalized to counter height and casements put in. I haven't even bought my cabinets yet. I'm really shocked by how open it has made the kitchen feel to drop the bottom. I think you will be very pleased and it will give you a much improved sight line to your garden.

Carrie B., regardless of the view, I've always thought lowering the window by the sink to counter height is one of the best visual "tricks" for enlarging a small kitchen. Hope you go for it. By the way, I also greatly enjoyed the first line in your thread and can relate to it.

12crumbles - glad you like my view - I actually do like it, though I think my standards are, errr, odd.
valpogal47 - so good to hear that you and so many others like the idea (and liked my opening line.) :)

This morning's experiment... though the bay window is the closest in terms of view to the new window, because the back rear pane itself is set back 33" from the wall, I found it hard to experiment with to mock up the lower view. I used the back, existing, kitchen window to mock up how much lower view I'd have w/ counter height vs. 4" raised. I think it's about 2' difference, at least in my mockup.

While the front of my house is up about 24" from the sidewalk, the back is only about 16" up from the brick patio.

I marked 36" & 40" height with painter's tape, (the top line of the tape) and then stood about 25" back from the wall to take the below photo. While the actual difference isn't huge, I think that, plus the opening up of the space is enough to make me want to go for it.

I definitely want to maximize the window -- I currently have about 12" of wall below my window, which was typical when this house was built, and an extra foot of window would mean so much more light in my dark kitchen!

Having said that, I also see the point in protecting the wood around the window.

My plan for our new house, in which the kitchen window will face the front and have a lovely view:

- The window will come down to about 3" above the sink.

- The sink will be set in a "slightly deeper" cabinet to allow 6" or so between the sink and the window. This will make it easier to wash around the faucet and will mean fewer splashes will reach the windowsill.

- The window will "match" the one in the adjacent bedroom in terms of size.

Mrspete

I am having my sink bumped out about 3 ". My KD said I didn't need to pay for a deeper sink base to achieve this, they will just pull the base out from the wall 3". That small space doesn't need anything there to support the counter.

I'm doing an undermount stainless sink, and it's a fairly narrow sink - so I'm thinking that I'll ask my quartz fabricator to pull the sink as close to the front of the counter as safe - I think that will give me plenty of room behind it. I'd also be willing to consider the window (frame and/or sill) an inch or two above the sink, but 4" feels like giving up too much. Oh, and if I go with fiberglass (or vinyl) then I don't have to worry about wood rot.

So, say my countertop is the standard 25" (or is it 25.5"?) and my sink is 16 3/4" front to back (bowl dimensions), that gives me almost 9", if, say, 3 of those inches are in front of the sink, I still get 6" behind it, with faucet, I think that will be OK, whether it's counter height or slightly above.

Unless there's some structural reason why you can't do it, I'd really just take that window down to flush with the counter. The bottom window frame can be the countertop extended into the sill. You would really have to be messy with water and leave a lot of standing water there for long periods of time without wiping it up for it to drip enough under the counter-sill to worry about ruining any wood there. It's done too much without problems for me to believe there's all that much of an issue. Any good contractor should know how to build it to minimize/eliminate risks.

I think so too, funkycamper. I think so too. July view from the bay.

Oh, I really wish you were doing the whole backspash as a window. I think it would look so charming. Wonderful garden!

Thanks, funkycamper. :)
Budget creep has already, I'm afraid, probably doubled my initial stated budget.

We took ours to 3 inches above the counter and added an extended windowsill for plant pots. The window was put in first before the kitchen remodel. That left wiggle room for a slight change in flooring depth and small variances and does not significantly impede our view. The window to countertop idea is wonderful but needs perfect execution to work. Great if you can pull it off.

I wanted to share my counterheight window. I put a small plant there for some perspective. As you know, I love it and planned it from day one. The casement does eat into some of the small deck but what I gained from kitchen side was worth it. (A small kitchen). I can see into the yard and the sky!! I should have planned for window side trim, I did not. Oops, I think that causes the window to look more modern, since other openings are heavily trimmed.

Mags - that looks lovely! And it looks to be about the size (yours might be a bit bigger - how big is your window?) I'm thinking of. I met with the KD's contractor last night & told him I wanted counter depth casement & he said "we could make your counter top go right up to the window, make it part of the windowsill" I was so delighted that he knew exactly what I wanted!

I'm torn about the side trim. I think it looks nice, but I'm wondering if I can get a slightly larger window if I go without trim. My current kitchen window, the one that is going away, (pictured above, Saturday 4:34am) does not have trim, and I'm OK with that.

I didn't have the flexibility you will have; my window was existing. I just lengthened it to reach countertop. I needed the upper cab width/storage.

The one thing that works - pictures! Show pictures/drawings of everything you want to the contractors, designers, cab ppl, etc. Very little room for interpretation! Less room for disappointment at the end when it all comes together.

Although a little out of order, I didn't order my special-order counterheight window until near the end (after countertop installed). I wanted to make sure the window size matched the opening. I didn't want to eat the cost of a custom-sized window due to an earlier mis-calculation or change of design/construction. Maybe it was an unnecessary precaution, but as mentioned above, it seemed to require some level of exact measurements.

That's right, Mags438. Now I remember that yours was an existing window.

I really love the way that yours looks, and would love to save it & show it to my contractor as an example of what I'd like. As a matter of fact, looking at yours, if I went with a taller, pull down faucet, I could easily put it in the back right - about where your sprayer(?) is or an inch to the right and it would line up with the window frame & not obstruct the window at all. With the window counter height, it gives a good extra six inches or so behind the sink for faucets & such. Then, I could put my soap dispenser kind of where yours is (assuming that's what that is) on the left.

Good point about your extra precaution. Thank you.

Mags, are you able to show how that window looks from the outside? I'd love to a get a little space behind the sink without going to a bay window, but I'm not sure on how.

Denizenx - I have no idea how Mags' looks from the outside, but I do know that my exterior walls are probably about 8" -10" thick, so having the counter depth window, or having a standard window sill the thickness of the wall, would not look very different from the outside, I'd think.

Carrie, sorry to have hijacked, it was for selfish reasons. That's a nice depth you have to work with, I'm jealous. But Mags' is probably more like mine and she says the casement steals from her deck space, so I'm interested to see that.

Denizenx - if anyone hijacked... I tried to answer your question that was intended for Mags. Now I understand - you're talking about the casement when the window is open, I believe, which would jut out into the deck (as mine will jut out into my garden.)

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. When I crank open the window is where it eats up some deck space. It was a double hung window before remodel. I have a brick exterior and the window from the outside is just flat up against the brick.

I was so tempted to lower my windows to the counter until I remembered how dirty the sliding window tracks behind the sink got at my first house. Now if I had single hung windows, that would be a whole different ball game. Sounds like you'll have single hung, so I add my vote to go with a counter height window.

Lovely garden!

Directly out the bay:

Lisa - I'm thinking casement - is that the same as single hung? Chances are, it'll get dirty back there. I'll likely have a plant or two back there in winter (in summer, plants are outside) and a cat or two digging in said plant. Not to mention cat hair. I'll deal. I'm excited to have the counter height. Oh, and thank you!

Thanks for the explanation Carrie and Mags, sorry I was slow on the uptake. I was thrown by the thickness of my windows, not realizing a single hung might give more room.