milkweed is the only host plant of the monarch....tulip poplar is for tiger swallowtails

What viper said...

The decline of the monarch is so sad. I have tropical milkweed in my yard.

Sometimes I wonder which is worse, off-topic sensationalism or spam. Wish we had neither!

Right. Those connections to neonicotinoid insecticides are much less significant than such alarmist media would have you believe. also claimed to be the single-handed reason for the demise of honeybees, yet Australia, which has both healthy bees and uses neonics-but never had the Varroa mite-is a perfect case in point-to show the ridiculousness of these claims.

+oM

If only we all could hope to attain your level of wisdom.

Or common sense, whichever..

Actually the milkweeds and at least one relative are hosts to the Monarch that being Honeyvine, see link.Honeyvine thread

I think that the reasons for the Monarch's demise are variable and poorly understood. Many times I have watched the beautiful jade-like chrysalis form but for some reason the butterfly never emerges.

Paper wasps and yellow jackets are introduced. They kill larvae of lepidoptera and feed them to their young. Do not provide these wasps and YJ's a haven.

I grow the green flowered milkweed which is native here. It is easy to grow from seed. Wouldn't it be great to see long stretches of milkweeds along the highways instead of the garbage that we usually see?

Anyone who recognizes the Cecropia, Polyphemus, Promethea, and Luna Moths will have an appreciation for the host trees that they depend upon.

One relatively little-known or used Asclepias is red or "marsh milkweed", Asclepias incarnata, native to wet meadows. Often called "swamp milkweed", this name is a misnomer in that an herbaceous wetland plant like this would not be found in a swamp, which is by definition a wooded wetland. But a marsh? Heck yeah. This one is actually a preferred monarch host plant, even over other Asclepias species. Quite attractive too. Will do reasonably well in ordinary garden conditions.

+oM

Yes, I planted a clump of A incarnata this spring, I had a thriving marsh clump of it on/in the pond overflow verge at my previous house.

I may try A. tuberosa despite fears it would be too wet for it to survive here (I've always had tuberosa).

Tuberosa has not worked well for us in our heavy and often wet soils. Add in that species' resentment of being moved and it adds up to a rather fussy plant. Sure is a looker though.

+oM

Yeah, and it's native here...but I recently moved to a less well drained area :)

Lol good ol' Wisconsin Tom - I think I figured out you work for Monsanto

Btw - Mites have always been around honeybees but it's the Neonics weakens the bees to fight them off.

A recent study from Penn State says Neonics does kill the bees, and the amount needed is very small.

http://ento.psu.edu/publications/are-neonicotinoids-killing-bees

Viper and Jalcon,

I never said Tulip Poplar was a host to the Monarch, I said it was a good tree to plant for them. Monarchs do feed on the flowers of the tree.

The only host for Monarch eggs and Catapillars is milkweed except in Hawaii they host on Crown flower leaves.

Joeinmo, if you would have spent just a day or two reading posts in this forum before posting your rant, you'd know that +oM does not work for Monsanto. Stop being silly. Most of us take our discussions here a little more serious than you seem to. Also, if you'd do just a little research (review of the scientific literature on the subject), your understanding of the topic would greatly improve.

News flash-Major group of insecticides......has ability to kill insects!!! Read all about it!!

Joe, the varroa mite-that specific organism, not just some vague amalgam of all you've ever heard or read about-is relatively new in N. America, is known to wreak havoc on honeybees, and is absent from the entirety of Australia, where honeybee colony collapse syndrome never occurred. They do use neonics in Austrailia, BTW. You johnnys-come-lately to the environmental front make me tired. Do you honestly not understand that neonicotinoids were developed to get us away from far worse chemistries-things like organophosphates (general wide-spectrum nerve poisons)? Do you believe that prior to the development of neonics, no pesticides were being used on crops here and elsewhere? So very limited in scope is your rant, it automatically shows you to be a novice in this field. Neonics are, BTW, not manufactured by Monsanto, so why that tired reference? You don't know what you're talking about, friend.

+oM

Yo Wisconsanto, wake up. LOL.

In Europe, where neonics were banned several years ago, bee deaths have actually increased, as farmers and others there turn back to more primitive chemistries, like the organophosphates I mentioned above. Meanwhile, in the US, honey production is up 14% and the number of bee hives has increased by 4%. the total number of hives today is higher than it was in 1995, when neonics were introduced to the market. Sorry for all the facts, Joemoe. I know it gets in the way of your convenient and simple-minded heaping of blame on one single factor.

Additionally, a new meta-study of all previous neonic studies purporting to show harmful effects on bee health used levels of exposure to the chemicals orders of magnitude beyond what would actually happen out in the field. So, if I were to somehow continually inject water into a bees body, and that bee ultimately died from this, I would have "proven" that water is killing bees?

One wonders how we will ever come close to solving the huge, crushing weight of environmental problems we've caused and continue to cause, when all a lot of folks want to do is jump on various bandwagons, employing scapegoat tactics which only obscure what's going on.

+oM

Wild honeybee populations fluctuate rather wildly around here since the "bee-death" era began. From nearly absent to normal levels. Last couple yrs show pretty normal populations, evidenced by the large numbers of them feeding on asters/goldenrod in early autumn.

That said, last yr, I only saw a couple monarchs in early autumn -- none in midsummer. Seems like the previous bitter winter had something to do w/it, as many insect-species were hit badly (but surprisingly, not honeybees).

Monarch numbers have plummeted about 95% in less than 20 years. They are being considered for the endangered species list. I love this butterfly, have raised them since 2008 and my property is a registered Monarch Waystation. I find these numbers very depressing.

There is obviously something big going on and various causes have been proposed - habitat loss from development, roadside mowing and spraying, logging in the overwintering grounds, invasive species of wasps, systemic pesticides, and agricultural practices, etc. It's probably a combination of all of them, but IMO one of the biggest culprits is indeed the blanket spraying of herbicides associated with GMO crops. Milkweed used to grow intermingled with and around the edges of the farmers' crops, now everything that isn't glyphosate-resistant is killed.

The US midwest is the primary breeding ground for the eastern migratory population of Danaus plexippus in North America. If they don't have a substantial habitat there, they are toast. The jury is still out, but this population will probably be extinct by the time the causes are no longer deniable, with the stranglehold big ag has on our political system.

At the same time, a completely honest look at Roundup-Ready cropping systems would include the fact that with these strains, lots of older and very damaging herbicide usage has been eliminated. Atrazine anyone? That chemical use is completely eliminated in a Roundup-Ready corn or soybean system. That is but one example. I sure do wish all the folks-well meaning as they are-would realize the simple truth that herbicides, fungicides, and insecticides are not a new idea, that some high-profile technologies getting a lot of bad press today replaced far more damaging items from yesteryear. But I fear I hope for too much.

+oM

Well, glyphosate is supposedly the least harmful of the herbicides widely used, and they no doubt couldn't grow the sheer quantity of food that they do without pesticides (not to mention water and fossil fuels) - and expect to feed the sheer masses of humans crawling the earth in the style to which they have or wish to become accustomed. Lots of corn and soybeans have to be grown to feed livestock so people can eat cheap animal products. Genetic engineering may also become essential to that level of food production (and that is probably Monsanto's plan).

We need more local and organic food production. Oh, and this subject doesn't have much to do with trees, haha.

Brandon and Tom "from Monsanto" - you have no clue what I know or don't. I know I'm way more versed in the ins and outs of pesticides, as I have a close family member who works for Monsanto here in Missouri. I'm sorry you feel guilty for using the poisonous stuff.

The truth is you two get freaky and wacked out when someone ever mentions Monsanto, GMO's or Neonics.

That tells me a lot.

As for the Mite Tom, your theory has be debunked awhile back. Bee keepers who do not allow their bees to be used as pollinators over various crops do not see colony collapse, but those that lease out their bees to farmers using various pesticides, Neonics especially have been hit hard with colony collapse.

I think you and Brandon might have thought cigarettes where one time a healthy product too.

But hey the mega corporations never lie, they would never patent a crop and sue farmers for cross contamination of non-patented crops with their patented crop.

Lol you guys -

Terrene,

Many crops that use roundup ready corn and soybeans are already being overrun with weeds that are immune to roundup now.

In addition, studies have now shown that organic farming cost the farmer less and therefore they make more money per acre. Monsanto has basically cornered the market on soybeans and corn and they started by flooding the market with a cheap product to knock conventional crop growers out. Now that they control the market they have made the costs outrageous to farmers.

This is a great documentary to watch with some basic info.

www.gmofilm.com

Joeinmo is what many refer to as a flamer. He couldn't care less about facts, butterflies, or acting appropriately in a public forum. He just wants attention and probably gets off on acting stupid when someone makes a genuine attempt at supplying real research results and using logic. At this point, I doubt he even believes any of the nonsense he presents. He just knows it will attract those that do care about the reality of the situation and draw them into a debate. I think he's doing this to get attention, but what he really does is make himself look foolish.

I've been organically oriented since the mid 1970s, Joe. When did you get started? Your attitude suggests much more recent vintage. This thread-ostensibly about the monarch butterfly-has roamed all over the place now, hitting each talking point you have in your quiver. a lot of it I already know, for example, the emergence of weed land races having acquired a resistance to glyphosate. But why do you have such a need to wave your arms around as you are doing? I'm reasonably convinced that I could talk about these and related matters until our keyboards melt, but what has this to do with trees? You are at least correct about one thing-I don't know what you do or do not know. Can it be, you fail to realize the same of me?

For my part, this will be my last entry in this thread, The web is crawling with truths, half-truths, and outright nonsense. Why add to the pile by humoring this discussion?

+oM

Brandon is what they refer to as a "Know it all" I have seen Brandon's rants on other people in other threads. I could care less what Brandon spits out.

Yawn

Well Wis Tom, NO I have not been organic gardening since the 70's lol, but I did garden during that period. There is no need to convince you of my qualifications on Monarchs, GMO's, Monsanto etc., but I'm glad you read my talking points, hopefully it helped.

What does it have to do with trees?

Well I did qualify the post with which tree would best help the Monarch, or did you not read that?

But you and Brandon made the thread a war zone not I. Let's look at the first responses of Brandon and yourself - shall we?

"sensationalism/spam" from ol' Brandon

"Alarmist media"

"Attain your level of wisdom" from you Tom

The reality is you two psuedo-intellectuals have no idea whatsoever as to what your talking about in this matter or in your case Tom you may want to get back to the sales dept of Monsanto.

Joeinmo, I'll give you one thing...your completely non-intellectual approach likely makes it easier for future readers to evaluate the value, or lack thereof, of your argument.

Interresting article in yesterday's Washington Post. We have several great farmer's markets. I NEVER see worms in the sweet corn. Last year, when I asked, the vendors told me that all of the corn varieties were GM, without exception. BTW, does anyone know if honeybees collect pollen from corn tassels?Washington Post Article

Wind pollinated.

+oM

Ohio Country Boy answered my question in this youtubeYouTube Link

I have a bunch of milkweed seedlings that are near transplanting size but now I need to know - what are these tree milkweeds that can sustain thousands of monarch butterflies in their branches? This thread wouldn't be in the tree forum otherwise.

By the way, I too long for the days before GMOs when farmers didn't use herbicides and encouraged milkweed growth on their land to benefit the monarchs.

I do hope that was sarcasm, rusty! That last bit, I mean. Otherwise, an amazing example of ignorance.

+oM

In Mexico, Monarchs will collect and rest in Oyamel, which is Abies religiosa. In California, they are often found resting in Eucalyptus globulus, an introduced tree from Australia. It may be more about the location of the tree than the particular genus/species.

Oyamel and Monarchs

Re: "tree milkweeds", see the link below under Calotropis gigantea (giant milkweed) and Calotropis procera (milkweed tree). There is some debate however about the potential negative effects of planting tropical milkweeds for Monarchs.

https://monarchbutterflygarden.net/milkweed-plant-seed-resources/

Also an interesting posting just today on Michigan Radio:

http://michiganradio.org/post/how-help-monarch-butterflies-without-poisoning-them

Too funny, there is a difference between a host plant and trees that attract butterflies including Monarchs. In Mexico, that's where Monarchs winter, (trees) not milkweed are where monarchs roost together to survive cold nights.