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mama2princess

Anyone knowledgeable with the IRC, please answer...

mama2princess
8 years ago

We have had several problems with our addition and GC...

What are the codes/what does the IRC say about inaccessible spaces? What are the IRC codes for a space that is above concrete (not earth) but inaccessible with water, a drain line and ductwork underneath??? We had an "expert" say what is wrong with our addition, citing certain parts of the IRC, but then the contractor has his expert cite certain parts and the city inspectors cite certain parts... I wish I could just read the IRC myself, but I can only find bits and pieces.

Our contractor originally submitted plans to built an addition with a crawl space that included the concrete footers and 3 CMU blocks, here in GA. There was a stone patio there with cement underneath and he didn't want to tear it up. He decided to change the plans (only told me "I'm going to make it all concrete instead of concrete and blocks because it's a better application" when instead what he really meant is "I figured out there's not enough room to put in a crawl space, and I don't want to tear up the stone and go down, so you're going to have an inaccessible space"...) He built it different than the plans, the city approved it on the 3rd go round, the Chief Building Officer later said it shouldn't have been approved, but they say it's fine... He put in the cement footer ("above ground exposed footer", he calls it) and then put the walls directly on top of it, but more like "on a shelf"...) It's not solid concrete, but the parts of the stone that had been cracked and had moss in it, he poured concrete onto... The city inspectors said it was fine because it's "encapsulated" and we don't have to worry about termites or moisture because of the concrete...

There is a laundry room in there as well, so we have the ductwork for 2 vents and the hot and cold water and a drain for the washer all inaccessible. What are the IRC codes for a space that is above concrete (not earth) but inaccessible with water, a drain line and ductwork underneath???

Also, does the IRC say anything about return air for the vent hood if you have a vent hood with 660 cfm? (Our contractor knew nothing about it and we had to pay an additional $1200 for it since he said it must be a new code...)

Also, is there anything in the IRC (or elsewhere) about pretreating for termites when you put on an addition? Our termite company will only warranty the addition if we drill into the foundation and it will cost $1200. If it had been pretreated, it would have been only $250. They said that all new builds and any additions need to be pretreated... should my contractor have known this? And what documents/codes say what standard protocol is?

Sorry so long and I hope someone with experience with the IRC can help me. Thanks!


Comments (9)

  • Kris Mays
    8 years ago

    These kinds of things are different everywhere. I can comment on the termite pretreatment, though. (We are pest control operators with experience in CA and OR). They are normally optional and I find contractors woefully ignorant on this issue; it's not even on their radar.


    Are you saying he built your addition on top of an existing slab? Then, yes, you can't treat your sub area, but you are also less likely to have a problem as long as you don't have a moisture issue. Treatment for subterranean termites can be done by injection on a slab patio/pathway around the outside of your addition, or by trenching. I would not drill into your foundation.


    What is the clearance? Here, clearance should be about 18" from bottom of floor joist to ground or 12" from bottom of girder to ground. There should be some kind of access available to get in there and there should be vents. Any laundry venting should be outside the building. Please make them build you an access, and I'd also consider crawlspace encapsulation at some point.

  • mama2princess
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Lots of things have been done wrong @krismays... It's not exactly a slab, but it's an old slab and stone patio that was cracked and had moss in it, and he poured concrete on top of the parts that had moss, grass or dirt. So we THINK it's only concrete under there. The one expert is saying that termites can find their way in the cracks of concrete and that the area is going to get humid... There's no venting to the outside, though there's venting into our basement. There's only a couple inches between the base of the floor joist and the concrete so you can access anything other than tearing up the hardwood floors of our addition... he even left in the wood forms, even after I asked several times if they should be removed. And the city inspectors had no problem with it since "it's all concrete..." I feel like we're just asking for trouble...

    Will see if they can get under the addition w/out drilling? My hubby is really worried about drilling into the foundation... Thanks for the info!

  • lucidos
    8 years ago

    This is a link to the IRC pertaining to additions. https://www.iccsafe.org/cs/codes/Documents/2007-08cycle/FAA/IRC-RB2-RB105.pdf

    With attention to Table R302.1 in your particular instance http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/st/ca/st/b400v10/st_ca_st_b400v10_3_sec003.htm

    As a note in a high humidity location such as Ga. vents actually cause more of an issue in a crawlspace. Encapsulation is used to reduce the relative humidity in the space. http://www.energyvanguard.com/crawl-space-encapsulation-features

    If you are running dryer vents. heating,air or plumbing through this area there should be interior floor access. Traditionally this is built into a closet in the new structure.


  • mama2princess
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Are there any particular codes in IRC that talk about having access to vents and plumbing? (I know it's common sense, but my contractor didn't think so...)

  • lucidos
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    From SECTION R408 UNDER-FLOOR SPACE


    R408.3 Unvented crawl space.
    Ventilation openings in under-floor spaces specified in Sections R408.1 and R408.2 shall not be required where:

    1.
    Exposed earth is covered with a continuous Class I vapor retarder.
    Joints of the vapor retarder shall overlap by 6 inches (152 mm) and
    shall be sealed or taped. The edges of the vapor retarder shall extend
    at least 6 inches (152 mm) up the stem wall and shall be attached and
    sealed to the stem wall; and2. One of the following is provided for the under-floor space:2.1.
    Continuously operated mechanical exhaust ventilation at a rate equal to
    1 cubic foot per minute (0.47 L/s) for each 50 square feet (4.7m2)
    of crawlspace floor area, including an air pathway to the common area
    (such as a duct or transfer grille), and perimeter walls insulated in
    accordance with Section N1102.2.9;2.2. Conditioned air supply sized to deliver at a rate equal to 1 cubic foot per minute (0.47 L/s) for each 50 square feet (4.7 m2)
    of under-floor area, including a return air pathway to the common area
    (such as a duct or transfer grille), and perimeter walls insulated in
    accordance with Section N1102.2.9;2.3. Plenum in existing structures complying with Section M1601.5, if under-floor space is used as a plenum.

    R408.4 Access.
    Access shall be provided to all under-floor spaces. Access openings
    through the floor shall be a minimum of 18 inches by 24 inches (457 mm
    by 610 mm). Openings through a perimeter wall shall be not less than 16
    inches by 24 inches (407 mm by 610 mm). When any portion of the
    through-wall access is below grade, an areaway not less than 16
    inches by 24 inches (407 mm by 610 mm) shall be provided. The bottom of
    the areaway shall be below the threshold of the access opening. Through
    wall access openings shall not be located under a door to the residence.
    See Section M1305.1.4 for access requirements where mechanical equipment is located under floors.

  • mama2princess
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Is there anything in relation to an inaccessible space that isn't above earth? They (contractor and city and contractor's hired "expert") say that since it's above concrete (we think there's no exposed dirt...) that it's not covered under that code... But seems crazy to have water, a drain and ductwork where it can't be reached w/out tearing out the floor. But I can't find anything about an inaccessible space that is above cement...would be like a crawl space, but you can't crawl in there... You can look in the space from our basement, but there's maybe 2 inches between the floor and the floor joists...

  • User
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    R408.5 Removal of debris.

    The under-floor grade shall be cleaned of all vegetation and organic material. All wood forms used for placing concrete shall be removed before a building is occupied or used for any purpose. All construction materials shall be removed before a building is occupied or used for any purpose.

    Here is the link.

    http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2012/icod_irc_2012_4_sec008.htm

    Here is the entire 2012 IRC. There really are not many significant changes from year to year, so if you are going by another year's code, you can usually assume it is the same. (Checked, GA is 2012)

    http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2012/index.htm

  • User
    8 years ago

    You may want to contact this person.

    GA Dept of Community Affairs:

    Office of Construction Codes

    Ted Miltiades, Director

    60 Executive Park South, N.E.

    Atlanta, GA 30329-2231

    Phone: (404) 679-3106

    Ted.Miltiades@dca.ga.gov


    More GA info

    https://www.iccsafe.org/about-icc/government-relations/map/georgia/


  • mama2princess
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    thanks so much Fred S!