In cases of severe damage almost the entire mass of roots is destroyed, thus water uptake is ceased. The result in an arid environment is rapidly drying leaves as seen in your photos. Tropic also has offered a plausible reason for your problem, but this could also be related to other causes of root damage (i.e. over fertilization) as well. In any case, you will need to examine the root system, as soon as possible.

Thanks everyone,

A few answers to people’s questions:

1) temperatures where I keep the plants indoors range from about 60 to about 75, usually low 60s at night and about 70 by the afternoon.

2) The grow lights are on for about 16 hours per day

3) I seriously doubt the plant is dry - I nearly completely bare-rooted the plant before potting it, and the soil is quite moist to the touch. I also used the dowel test throughout the rootball and it came out moist.

4) thanks for noticing the stake, I’ll take a look and loosen it up if it’s tight.


If this is indeed fertilizer burn, am I better off flushing the soil immediately or should I allow time for it to dry before flushing? It’s already quite moist.

If I take the plant out of the pot and examine the roots, what would telltale signs of fertilizer burn on the roots be? I know how to look for rotten roots.

I have heard that over watering and under watering symptoms can look the same so perhaps the medium is staying too moist for too long? Its hard to say because clearly this isn't your first rodeo so to speak and you have others in the same conditions doing just fine. I wonder if the ST is more finicky than your others in terms of care needed. I keep an eye on mine and let you know if I notice it has specific preferences.

I too am very sorry...Can you describe in as much detail as possible how you bare rooted your tree?

How long were the roots exposed to air?

How much soil you took out from between the roots?

How you packed in the soil into the roots?

Did you damage any in the interm?

How often you watered?

Too if the root stock gives out, then no matter what you do it's in vain. I don't trust certain places or certain root stock anymore..

And like in the real world, things can die, and sometimes without a plausible reason.

Well, I watered it with lukewarm water in the shower for a solid 6-7 minutes to try and flush the soil. If the plant recovers, which seems unlikely, it's going to be a slow road. Ruth from Harris Citrus said to expect all of the leaves to drop off before things start to get better, at which point I may see some buds break with new growth.

Fingers crossed, seems like it will be a long road.

Keep my fingers crossed for you too.

Did you say you recently repotted it?

I’d be surprised if it was the bare root alone, although that can certainly contribute to shock. I potted it when I received it from FW, first week in September. Didn’t start to see any real decline until second week of October after multiple doses of FP at the same concentration I give my more mature Yuzu and Rangpur. Lesson learned, don’t fertilize a brand new tree until it has started to push growth on its own or shows deficiencies.

Pac, It happened to my tree now too, I had a strong wind come through on Sunday and Monday nights and my tree was completely fine before that and now all its leaves are shriveled and the branches look like they are dehydrated. The 5-1-1 was still moist from being watered and this tree was in the most protected spot in my yard. The trees directly next to it were fine, it must be a really sensitive tree if a bit of wind decimated it. I had my Minneola completely ripped out of its pot and sitting practically bare rooted for 12+ hours before I found it and that tree doesn't look as bad as the ST. I pulled it inside last night ahead of my other trees coming in and fully expect it to lose all its leaves. I just hope it can make it through the winter, like you I don't want to lose this tree after hunting it down for over a year and a half. I guess i'll add my name back to the FW waitlist for another one as a back up if this one doesn't make it. I'll take a picture of it at lunch so you can compare it to yours.

Oh no Sammers that’s terrible! It must be a sensitive variety - like most lemons in containers, I guess. Here’s to hoping it recovers quickly for you!

I’m wondering if I should take a small cutting of Yuzu now and try to graft ST to it as a low chance of success backup option in case my ST doesn’t survive.

Thanks, I was really surprised because my Meyer tipped over and half of its mix was spilled out and my Vari Pink Lemon was directly next to the ST and it was just bare-rooted and re-potted after spending 7.5 days in a box shipping to me a few weeks ago, and they don't look affected at all.

I would, what do you have to lose? I have watched a few videos on grafting/rooting at the same time and it seems that bottom heat and proper humidity are the keys to success. So if you have a spare Yuzu branch it may be worth it to try and hedge your bets.

Here are some pictures of my tree. It’s not as crispy as yours but I wouldn’t put it past it to continue to crisp and decline.

Its still staked as it’s so lopsided it barely stands up now. I think I’ll trim back the lopsided new growth and hope it helps the plant focus more entergy on keeping what’s left alive.

How what a sad sight :(

That’s what mine looked like before it got really dry and crispy.

Keep us updated on it and be sure to let me know if and how you manage to turn the decline around!

If you trim yours then you would have some potential cuttings / budwood to play with.

Oh no, it is so sad to see your trees like that, guys! Why they do that? You would think the dense foliage is healthy and green, nothing bad could happen to the tree, but I guess some combination of events shocks them :(

I am so sorry you guys! I cannot think what on earth could be going on. I do think my ST is more delicate and fussy than my other trees (wilts more from sun and shows deficiencies sooner), but nothing like that. Why don’t you guys coordinate and contact FW?

A comparison between your plants and experiences amongst all the owners may help with narrowing the problem: seller, rootstock, how big is the root ball, when does it grow well and when it does not, etc. Sounds like the decline is rapid and something must be triggering it.

As Laura said, STs seem more fussy. Mine was repotted in full shade this summer and within 30 minutes all the growing tips had flopped over. It spent months getting only early morning sun before being eased out to a max of 4 hours. Now that it's settled it's handled the move inside well with few dropped leaves, still flowering and even out putting out some new leaves. Fingers crossed that your plants will improve if you keep them shady and warmish.

Maybe it is a rootstock thing? Both my trees are about seven to eight years old and the most robust from all my trees. MaybeFW used a different rootstock on mine? The only thing that always wonders me is the different leaf coloration. One seems always lighter with bigger leafs and one really dark but smaller. Almost like they are a different variety. They have been like that from the day they arrived. will see if I can find a picture

Here they are, the day they arrived in 2013. No matter what I did, the difference did never change. At the time, trees came bare rooted.

And pics from today, one is in the office and one in the grow room with the others.

Susanne,

I wonder if your two trees are on different rootstocks? That could explain some of the variation. I have no idea what FWG uses as a stock for Santa Teresa, as most trifoliate hybrids seem to be incompatible with lemons generally, which would seem to rule out c-35.

I already emailed FWG about my issues but they have been ignoring me thus far.

Sammers,

is your tree doing any better? I’m starting to see some branch tips die back unfortunately.

Pac, no unfortunately, the leaves are getting crispier and crispier. I haven't e-mailed FW because I got the tree mid September and assumed that they wouldn't be able/willing to do anything since the tree looked more or less ok (except for sever pest damage) when I got it. And was looking completely fine/the same until this week. I am going to evaluate more this weekend and get the pruning done. I may add a humidifier to help get it back on its feet. If this happened in spring I wouldn't be as worried but going into 4+ months of indoor conditions has me concerned. We plan on moving next year and my hope is to find somewhere with room for a greenhouse. I didn't think I would budget the funds for one for many years (retirement) but this year has shaken me and since I am only going to expand my collection I plan to buckle down and start saving now.

Well every leaf is probably going to drop, but none have so far - they're just getting paler and drier. Hopefully it will grow some new leaves and recover, but I'm going to take cuttings on Monday.

What does everyone think? I can do the following:

1. Root ST cuttings directly.

2. Root Rangpur and graft ST to it.

3. Root Yuzu and graft ST to it.

I bought a heating pad for bottom heat and grafting film.

I will probably only be able to take 2-4 reasonably sized cuttings of ST without taking too much off the tree (I'd still like to give it a chance to recover).

Small update - Tony w/ Pearson Ranch shared an academic study with me from Turkey evaluating the performance of ST lemon on various rootstocks - interestingly, it referenced some unusual rootstock choices including Sanbokan and Yuzu. So since Yuzu is apparently compatible, I'll probably try at least one cutting, one graft to Yuzu, and one graft to Rangpur.

Wish you all the best with your grafts!

My ST has a different growth habit than Susanne’s...very wide. Now that it’s inside, it takes up 3/4 the width of my sunroom! So wide!!! Sammers, I’m sorry about your tree!

Laura that sounds like a great problem to have! Does it have any lemons going?

Pac, it has six large, but green lemons. However, it is blooming and has little lemons on it on all the long limbs. I can’t wait to try the famous lemons! I’d take a pic of it for you, but in my crowded sunroom it blends with everything else.

Laura mine could be totally different varieties. One is growing very wide and one is growing up and narrow. What is up with that? You will love the lemons. In my humble opinion the taste is superior to other commercial varieties.

Pac I have sambukan. Did get some shoots along the stem that I did not remove. But coming spring I guess will not hurt to remove one for grafting purpose.

That's great about Yuzu being a good rootstock for the ST.I hope they take for you! My tree isn't any better but hasn't dropped any leaves yet. I had to delay taking cuttings from my ST as I have to scramble to get all my trees in over the weekend since out lows are dipping down to 33 and 32 today and tomorrow. I've got more to do tonight but hopefully I will be able address it soon.

Took 4 cuttings this morning. One was dipped in rooting hormone and placed into soil by itself, I attempted to cleft graft two to Yuzu, and I attempted to graft the last one to Rangpur. Wrapping the scion and rootstock together was pretty tricky! I have no idea if any of them are going to work out, but it was a fun science experiment. Yuzu was a nice and easy rootstock to work with - thick twigs and strong wood. Rangpur is so thin and willowy that the smallest ST scion I had was still bigger than my Rangpur rootstock cutting. All are on a heating pad with thermostat set to 80F and tented with ziplock bags to retain humidity. I’ll spray every day or two and water as appropriate and wait! I’ll share some pictures if people would like to see.

I did a few cleft grafts recently with some success. I used zip ties, pulled tight, to keep pressure on the graft and it has worked well. It can be tricky getting them off but not too bad if you're careful. I could never wrap them tight enough with rubber bands or parafilm and they would eventually fail. You should be able to remove everything after 2 weeks.

PacNor, update us on your grafts as they progress, I have never done rooting a cutting and grafting at the same time. It would be educational to observe your work and results.

Took a look under the hood today. No signs of growth but that would be really early. Nothing looked too dry or like it was blackening, though, so I'll call that a win. Interestingly, Four Winds got back to me and offered to send me a new tree if I cover shipping costs. I think I'm going to wait at least a week or so and see if the grafts take or if the main tree recovers, but I suppose I may as well take them up on it. I don't love the idea of having to either repot a new tree in 40-50 degree weather or keeping it in essentially sawdust for the entire winter, which is what FWG seems to ship trees in.

I just reported a half dozen trees in my living room. My plan was to drag the wheelbarrow inside and dump all my potting mix in it, but I was yelled at for that. So I put a blanket, then an old towel on my couch. I thought I’d be able to contain the mess...But it all wiped off/vacuumed up easily when I was done.

I am glad they offered to replace your tree Pac, that makes me kick myself for not contacting them about mine but perhaps I will send them an email and see what they say.

For Sammers and the more experienced growers, I'm wondering if this could be the cause of the sudden collapse?

http://ipm.ucanr.edu/PMG/r107100211.html

http://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postdetail.cfm?postnum=6587

Executive Summary: Dry root rot, a fusarium fungus, which teams up with phytophthora and girdles the tree, causing sudden death when exposed to heat stress, wind, or dry air. Symptoms include sudden death of the tree with dry, pale, wilted leaves left on the tree.

The symptoms definitely sound about right.

Yeah that sounds pretty spot on, I wonder what sort of treatment we could provide for our container culture? It seems as though they recommend inspecting the roots and replacing any soil that is preventing drainage but with mine being in 5-1-1 I am not sure how else I can improve drainage, my mix also doesn't stay wet/damp for very long usually 2-3 days outside and 3-5 inside.

Both of our trees collapsed at almost the exact same time, and we received our trees on the exact same day. If I had to guess, this is something the trees were already fighting long before they arrived at our homes. I'll probably make an effort to treat my new trees with agri-fos right away instead of on my normal quarterly schedule, but not sure if even that would have prevented this.

Yeah it definitely seems like more than coincidence. I emailed FW on Monday letting them know my tree was experiencing the same thing and haven't heard back, I figure I'll try again next week if I don't get a response. I would be happy to pay shipping to get a new tree but I'd be worried it would suffer the same fate.

Kendra got back to me and below is her response, I guess it could just be a coincidence that both Pac's and my tree are sharing similar symptoms at the same time and the wind damage is what hurt my tree. I don't know what else to do if that's not the case, I don't know how I would prove its dry root rot (or something else) and that it had it before I received the tree. I guess we will just wait and see if my tree recovers. I am reluctant to order another tree from them if its going to have the same problem but there doesn't really seem to be another supplier so I don't really have a choice if I want this variety. Here's hoping this tree makes it through winter. Pac how is your tree looking?

Hello there,

Thank you for sending over pictures it helps us understand what you are seeing.

I’m thinking that coming from our growing houses into a new environment and then getting blasted by some wind has cause this damage. Wind damage on citrus trees often looks like this. I wouldn’t be surprised if these leaves turn brown and crispy, unfortunately it may get worse before it gets better. So if that happens the leaves will probably fall off. You may even want to help them along. As long as your stems/branches stay green and have no die back, and it may take a while but the tree should push some new growth. The Santa Theresa’s are very hardy lemons. Because you live in Oregon this tree is going to need an adjustment period but it should bounce back.

Keep us updated!!

Kendra Just

Four Winds Growers

kendra@fourwindsgrowers.com

530-795-4670 Office

Well, as long as the branches stay green there is a chance it is not a root problem. I would just wait and see and if the tree dies, contact them again.

Small update: the original tree is almost certainly a goner. I haven't thrown it out yet, as the trunk and some of the main scaffold branches are still green and our weather has been too soggy to take the tree outside and chop it up, but most of the branches are dieing back from the tips / turning white.

Status of my attempts to propagate the tree and "save" it that way:

1 of 1 ST cleft-grafted to Rangpur failed after about 10 days. The rootstock twig I used just wasn't thick enough and it turned black before the scion did.

2 of 2 ST cleft-grafted to Yuzu are still green, but no buds have pushed. If the scions are still green, does this mean that the graft may have worked?

1 of 1 ST cutting is still green, and one of the buds has broken and looks like it is about to push some leaves, which is definitely encouraging. If the tree grows leaves, should I keep it where it is (consistently 65-70F but relatively low light) or move it (60-70F but higher light)?

Sorry for the loss of your tree :( Keep grafts humid and warm, lots of light, even when they start growing, wait until new graft leaves are more mature and slowly introduce to room humidity (poke holes in plastic bag for few weeks and then remove completely). For cuttings, it is such a fine line between keeping them in right humidity and warmth and not letting them rot, they take long time to root.

PacNor, here is my lime bud graft done at the end of September, after keeping it humid for a month the bud did not push and I removed the plastic bag, but I made cut on the bark, so the nutrition goes to the bud, but not beyond the bud- to the rest of the branch:

Small update:

ST Cutting has pushed out a little leaf, maybe about 1.5" long with some leaflets forming at the end of the growth. No roots from what I could tell as of yet, but maybe the leaf will produce enough sugar that the cutting will root.

Yuzu + ST Graft #1 has no growth and no roots as far as I could tell, but lots of callous tissue at the base of the yuzu cutting.

Yuzu + ST Graft #2 has no growth from the scion but the yuzu rootstock has a big 2" root at the bottom!

Some encouraging signs but certainly no viable trees yet!