Charades, totally agree with NaF naf who said “In my opinion, the architects that frequent this forum are better that the average residential architects out there.” Our experience with hiring an architect on this forum was awesome, and we don’t even live in the USA. !

The big mudroom (not counting the goofy angled closet) is one of the nice things about the first draft plan. The dining room is too small for one door to the outside, much less two; both the deck and covered porch are too small to be much use; double doors to a bedroom are just silly (how do you find the light switch?); the bulbous closet stuck on to the front of the house is ridiculous. I think you'd have a hard time getting furniture into any of the bedrooms.

Presumably this was the same person who drew the other plans? Please, get yourself a real architect! You deserve to have a house that is a pleasure to look at and a joy to live in - set that as your end goal.

Cherades, for every jut in and out on the exterior wall, you are adding a RIDICULOUS amount in building costs. And the exterior, with all the fancy roof juts here and there add a ridiculous amount to the building costs.

You need to read these 2 blogs. They are a fast read. They will help you....

http://mcmansionhell.com/post/149284377161/mansionvsmcmansion

http://mcmansionhell.com/post/149563260641/mcmansions-101-mansion-vs-mcmansion-part-2

Find an ARCHITECT that can build you a simple rectangle with a garage and you will reduce your costs immensely.

Sun coming in thru glass does not have UVA or UVB rays.

A little thing, but both plans feature a bed or beds sharing a wall with a water closet (the Master bedroom in the first posted plan shares TWO walls with toilets! *sad face*)

I agree with the other posters that you need to start over. Completely fresh. Leave this plan behind and put it out of your mind. It's just so complicated and not good.

Regarding windows and light. When it comes to selling your home, even if it's 50 years in the future and your kids are the ones selling it, the windows and good light are the biggest selling points. Cause you can re-do a kitchen, but to add and subtract windows are a whole other thing, and buyers will just move on to the next house that has better light.

Having said that, my kitchen faces northwest and has a lot of trees. There's a big window in the kitchen which I love, and it's kind of a relief not to have sun pouring in when the oven is on, or you are stumbling around first thing in the morning. Yeah, don't want to have the morning sun to squint into before morning coffee. I just wanted to give an alternate viewpoint from people here saying kitchens should have southern exposure. My living room though does face south, and that is something for you to shoot for.

I’m so sorry that you spent so much time on this to be deflated by it. I hope before you start again you can go back to the architect and ask their opinion. If that doesn’t work then start again. Good luck

I know nothing about architecture but as an experienced parent i would think that having two kids share a room, especially into their teen years, is asking for conflict.

If I've got this right you've been working with an architect on this design for three years. You've just gotten a cost back from your builder to build it which is over the budget. Some have advised you to go back to that same architect and explore ways to economize. At the risk of raising the ire of architects following this thread, I think that's part of the reason you are where you are.

Architects don't typically build stuff and don't write checks for construction materials or labor. If they have cost data for construction of a similar home it's probably a couple of years old. They won't likely know that dimensional lumber is up 30% in the past year, or what the pending cost increases are for concrete, drywall, garage doors or anything that contains steel or aluminum (thank you, Mr. President.)

Using old cost data to predict the future cost of home construction is like driving by looking in the rear view mirror. You needed to get your builder on board as part of the design effort--not after the fact. If you're going to attempt a re-design make sure your builder is on board from day one of the redesign effort.

Yes. My girls are now 15 and 16, and shared a room until 3 years ago. If they still had to share, my sanity and nerves would be shot. Them sharing a bathroom is enough complaining. Now if I had to share it with them...I don't even want to contemplate...

In my opinion...

American teens are totally capable of sharing and frankly society might be better off if more were expected to do so.

I get that, but op is thinking of putting them together to save some money upfront. A 3 vs. 4 BR house is significant, and he (or they) could always make the decision to share without be forced into it.

When we designed our house, currently building it, we had the designer and builder sit in on all meetings. Yes we paid the builder for this but he knew our end game budget and was able to help us make choices that kept us in that. He told us where it was worth it to just go with the plan and where we could adjust and save. This advice was invaluable.

We also have three kids. 10,9,6 and we are purposefully building so the two girls do not need to share. Of course they can. But since we are building why not make it possible for them not to? For us having the space, should we need it, and I think we will, is worth it.

With all the space you have, acreage wise, you don't need to feel tied to this plan. Build something that you can afford but meets your needs. Clearly this is neither.

I just wanted to give an alternate viewpoint from people here saying kitchens should have southern exposure.

No one is saying the kitchen needs to face south. What we are saying is the HOUSE should have most windows facing south.

Like you my kitchen windows face north and east but I have windows in my kitchen. The back of my house faces south.

On a tight budget? Lose the garage for now; add it later as a separate building -- perhaps to be connected to your home via extended porch -- either front or back.

Are there any adults in your home other than you and your spouse? If so, that matters. If not ...

A less complicated floor plan would be to put a great room in the middle -- front entry w/closet on each side; living, dining, kitchen -- with a back mudroom w/laundry behind the kitchen; two bedrooms (with a bath and a half between them) on each side of the great room.

Note: I prefer an eastern exposure for my kitchen -- no hot afternoon sun heating the room while cooking supper or shining directly in my eyes while I'm at the sink doing prep or washup.

Charles Ross based on how this design looks, I'd be very surprised if an architect designed it. And if it is an architect who designed it, it is clearly one who didn't do well in school.

Providing a home for your children that necessitates sharing a bedroom is *not* a hardship for them. Teach them to fight without rage and to disagree with respect.

Damairain hit the nail on the head.

The first thing I noticed was the bed against a wall with a toilet on the other side--AND, a closet that takes up a prime corner location that has to be shared with another bedroom only because the wall would hit the window!!! Those are the 2 stupidest bedrooms I have ever seen.

This house is a mess, and it screams "McMansion!" The only McMansion box the architect didn't check off was Palladian windows.

Tatts...I thought it would be fun for the girls to share one big closet

Lori...our basement won’t be a full basement (well it wasn’t going to be)...I’ve never been a big fan of them, dark, cold etc. and feel they are totally under utilized most of the time even when they are finished off (based on having one growing up and with people I know now). I don’t want bedrooms down there for sure, if we can manage getting them on main level. If we feel we want to and need the space we can finish some of it off down the road.

One thing I forgot to mention was we wanted a house that’s fairly symmetrical...not a fan of big parts of the house jetting our way further (usually the garage)...I realize there is probably a good reason for this most of the time, it’s just not pleasing to my eye. I want the front door and porch to be a focal point not a huge garage door which is what my eye is drawn to on a lot of houses.

Cherades, what is the total Square Footage of the house? Where in southern IL are you? (I am in central in IL) but go to St Louis often, and I know an excellent architect in Carbondale

I grew up with the basement you have pictured in your head—one used only for tornado shelter and storage. The basements of today in Kansas are much different. With a view out or walk out, the basement is no longer dark and dreary. The basement becomes additional living space, finished to the same quality as the main level.

Get in touch with Naf Naf, stat.

Among other things, a good architect can help you live large in a small space, and can also help you maximize natural light and make use of passive solar (important on a farm in Illinois) without subjecting sensitive eyes and skin to discomfort.

I grew up in a small NYC apartment, sharing a bedroom, and all five of us -- three adults and two children -- shared one very, very small bathroom. Everyone learned to be quick, and at times learned to actually share the space. It's doable, definitely fosters closeness, and no-one suffered any lasting harm or trauma : ) .

If you can get full size windows in the basement without window wells I would encourage you to consider space down there. Our new house has 2 bedrooms down there and it is as dry, warm and bright as the first floor. You would want to do a second HVAC zone, foam insulation on the concrete walls (and maybe under the concrete slab) and open stairs to above. I find our basement space very comfortable. Much cheaper to build down rather than up or out.

Maybe it what you grow up with, but basements can be far from dark and dreary. They can have high ceilings, walk outs, full windows, a lot of light. I know they are a love or hate, but bilevel/split entry houses are very popular where I am as they allow builders to take advantage of “having” to build a basement but combined with high ceilings (8-10’), big windows, often walkout they feel far from “basement like”. They are a great (cheaper) way to add space for more bedrooms, family rooms, playrooms, finished the same as any other level, without expanding the foot print or adding more complication with a second story, etc.

Funnily enough my husband on the other hand wanted a very basement-like basement in our new house, more appropriate for a dark cozy man cave. Too many of the basements he saw as we were looking around were too open, bright, and spacious! We stuck with 8’ ceilings and dropped lots of windows so he would have more room for a big fireplace, television, wall to wall built ins, etc.

Is it cheaper to build up instead to reduce the footprint ??

How do you send messages to someone on here?

You can only send messages if you follow one another. Or you can message a pro.

Allison, you can send and receive messages from anyone if you check that option in advanced settings. You do not have to follow anyone. Down at the bottom, select allow anyone to message me.

Some people on here, like Naf_Naf, have a big white "Message" button on the right side of their page, under their Facebook and Twitter icons. Just click the Message button, and off you go : ) .

Interesting Sherry! I actually looked it up before I posted and what I found implied otherwise.

Yeah I just checked and I don’t have an advanced settings option. Maybe only from desktop?

Don't know, I only use desktop. Click on "Your Houzz". "Click on Your profile" "click on edit profile". "Click on advanced settings." Scroll down to "who can message me". select "allow anyone to message me".

ETA: It is on my Ipad.

ETA:#2 If it is on an Ipad it is on anything.

You can also access the Advanced Settings area from the website if you go to it from your phone's browser.

That's how I always use the mobile site, always through the browser. I found the app disappointing.

App woes it is! Good to know it can be done.

House costs are ALL OVER the place thruout the US. It might cost $125sf in the SE, TX or mid west and $350sf in the NE and CA...or more for the same house excluding land!!! Why do you want the MB facing the front street??? Instead of the backyard? GC's want to make the MAX amount they can get away with. That's business.

Cherades...I'm from southern Illinois as well. I definitely have a few words of wisdom to share with you if you would like to message me as well. I know that it's almost impossible to find an architect in our neck of the woods but it can be done. Don't build this house. You can do better.

I'm in a lower cost area in Southern California. That house with the same square footage, without the office and with a simpler outline resulting in a simpler roof line basically IS my house. If you owned the land, you could build it here for just about $1M in construction cost as long as you keep it simple. Don't forget $1,800/month for property tax when you are done............

MBR goes in the BACK of the house, even in my neighborhood with a minimum setback of 50ft from the street.

I didn’t want my MBR in a back corner I feel like I wanna hear and know what’s going on in my house lol

In most plans the garage is in the front, and master in back..I always want to flip flop them...would be convenient to have access to garage while you are in backyard and with bedroom in front I can hear what’s happening, someone at door etc. better....but at this point I don’t really care anymore where anything is

So I know you've got a couple of posts going...you asked about flow over on your other one and it got me thinking.

Do you think it would help to take a breath and visualize the things that will make a real difference in the day to day livability of your house?

For example, I'm looking at your mudroom and keeping in mind the facts that you farm and you have kids (and maybe nieces/nephews, since it's a family farm). We farm too; when I planned our mudroom (which was one of the first rooms I planned, after the kitchen) I thought about where are we most likely to come in off the farm? And what will we do when that happens? So I placed our mudroom at the back, by the fields, and I put a washer, dryer, and big utility sink in it. So when we come in dripping with mud we can strip down and throw our clothes straight into the wash or the farm hamper. We can do a cursory scrub in the utility sink and my bathroom sinks stay so much cleaner now and we're no longer bumping into each other at the sink. My husband can carry in the bucket of milk, bottle it, tuck the bottles into the fridge outside on the lanai, wash his pail in the utility sink and my kitchen stays cleaner. There is a door from the front porch at that end of the house too, for the times we drive to work so we don't have to come through the "nice" parts of the house when we're gross. We can pop through the less public and always untidy playroom and head straight to the mudroom.

Where do you usually come from when you're coming home after farming? Do you walk out to your fields, or drive? Do kids run in and out all day? Will your kids store their school bags there, or at the front door? (hint: there is no place for them to store that stuff at the front, in your plan) What about when they have been playing outside? Would it be nice for them to be able to access a sink and maybe even toilet before coming into the main part of the house? As drawn unless they come through the front door they will arrive in all their glory right in the middle of the dining room. Do you, like us, have Farm Coats, Town Coats, Rain Coats, Coveralls, Snow pants, Rain pants, Winter Boots, Farm gumboots, Town gumboots...you get my point. You mentioned that your first draft mudroom was too big, but my feeling is that with a young farming family that room is a pivotal choice in the function of the entire house.

When you come in for lunch can you easily get your hands scrubbed, grab your sandwich, and get back at it? Without getting in the way of whomever is simultaneously feeding the kids their lunch and possibly prepping supper? Or if it's one of Those Days, still trying to get cleaned up from breakfast?? I don't know what your customs are there; here when we are haying or doing other things that require a big crew the farm that is being worked at provides lunch and/or supper. If that is your custom too does your kitchen allow for all your helpers to get those meals out efficiently? What about when Johnny from down the road needs your bathroom. Does he use the master or the kids'? Where can he wash his hands before he eats?

Just some things to think about when you're making these tough choices. You've made the decision to farm with all its accompanying joys and challenges. Your job will be a heck of a lot easier if your house is working with that choice and I'm not sure either this plan or your current reno-ready home will do that (haven't seen the floorplan of the other but I have serious doubts about this one).

Please know I realize this is a lot of words. If I'm out of line you can tell me (or not lol) and I'll back off. Sorry if I sound patronizing, I truly mean it with care. Maybe you've thought of these things already. I know so many people (sadly, mostly women) for whom the "dream" couldn't be reconciled with the lifestyle and it has made things so tough for them and their families. Not saying this is you, I mention it so you have some background about where I'm coming from.

Another vote for, Keep the same concept ... but simplify it. Simplify the footprint, simplify the roofline ... and it'll make a difference.

Pointing out the obvious: Don't "downsize" to your budget; rather, downsize a bit further. If you don't, you'll find yourself in the same hot seat a few months down the road, but it'll be worse (because you'll have started the project and won't have the same option to make changes without consequences).

Lindsey, given thought to lots of what you’ve mentioned...first plan had a door from backyard directly into mudroom. Current plan is they would come back and forth from garage into house...but it’s not a huge concern as my kids are already 12, 10 and 6 now and at this rate will probably be in college when we start building haha. We will have utility sink in garage not laundry room (to clean muddy or dog poopy shoes etc)

Right now we have one door that is used on our house...it’s our back porch door, which is in our kitchen. Anything is an upgrade from here. The longer all of this is taking, the less picky I’m becoming! That’s a good thing I think :-)

I am encouraged that most of you think we could get the price down simply by simplifying the roof etc...I showed our architect the style of homes we were drawn to, which is what he did. Exterior curb appeal is pretty important to us, but we obviously need to be more open to cheaper possibilities now

I think your guardian angel was looking after you. I am having a hard time believing this was designed by an architect because the bedroom design violates several basic premises of design. Get on to You Tube and watch the 3-4 minute lessons on design by Slow Home.

Charades, I too am in southern Illinois. I don’t know if you are building in a subdivision or on farmland, but if you are building in a subdivision, you do not want your master bedroom at the front of the house. Next, if you put the kids bedrooms upstairs and the master down, your foundation costs will go down. Then when the kids start going off to college you can close the upstairs off and keep it cooler or warmer and live on one floor. As a point of design, bedrooms should have windows facing the front to back versus on the side. When you walk through the door you should face the bed and you should not be walking into a wall created by the closet. Fussy roof lines and high pitched roofs cause an upcharge in this part of the world. Union labor will upcharge significantly if the pitch of the room exceeds certain parameters - I found this out when I went to build and there was a 30% upcharge. And if you use anyone in the St. Louis area they will not be familiar with the building codes in Illinois.

"Union labor will upcharge significantly if the pitch of the room (sic) exceeds certain parameters." As a union guy I would like to point out that steeper roofs are more dangerous for the workers and therefore require more precautions, safety gear, time and likely workers. Around here there are no union roofers doing residential work and we have an upcharge for steeper roofs.

Here's 2 cents. You are living in Tornado Alley, make sure your basement is well built for safety in severe weather. Another consideration, wildfire. You should have at least 2 escape routes off your property and a water supply firefighters can use; ie a pond, well or lake.

Schreive dave, thank you for explaining further my comment - that is how it was explained to me at the time - so it supports have the GC in the meetings with the architect as some of the professionals suggested.