I am not familiar with any of the brand names or equipment you asked about. Neither are commonly associated here with food preservation. Would it be possible for you to provide info links to the products you are referencing?

I looked up their website, a company in Germany I discovered, but don't find any references there to canning, just a vacuum sealing drawer - which seems extremely expensive. So links would help make sure we are all on the same page. Thanks.

Dave

I have the Food Saver Model V3485 and I love it for meat. It is an older one, and stands upright instead of flat like some of the newer ones.

https://www.foodsaver.com/vacuum-sealers/refurbished-vacuum-sealers/foodsaver-v3425-vacuum-sealer---certified-refurbished/R-FSFSSL3425.html

However, I solved my stale chips and cookies at the camper by buying the small single serving size bags. I can keep a wide variety of snacks and they don't spoil. Yes, they are more expensive, but there is no waste, so really they are cheaper. If it is something my husband and I eat a lot of, I buy a larger size and store in these plastic containers. They come in several other sizes. They are a copy of the OXO, which probably work even better.

Dave, yes, it is a "just" a vacuum drawer and it doesn't appear to be do canning. Thanks. I think it's better to go with the more inexpensive kind as having it built in could lead to problems down the road.I was just wondering if anyone had the built in one and found it indispensable and magical. Thanks.

Sherry, that link did not appear to be working. What is the brand name for them?

Did you see this thread?

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5577661/chamber-vacuum-anyone-bought-or-considered#n=39

It has some of everything from commercial to Zero to Food Saver.

My inclination would be if I were giving the cabinet space to a built-in, I'd want the one that has the widest variety of tricks it can do and the most convenience. I'm guessing that's Zero, though Irinox doesn't have a big presence in the USA and Miele might be more practical at the point where you get into needing maintenance.

Part of it is style. Do you really see yourself rushing to seal everything in plastic? I'm going to get a new sealer that will give me a better seal for sous vide, but I still use containers, canisters and zip bags for a lot of stuff, and use my sealer just for long term things, items for the freezer that aren't suited to containers, and items for sous vide cooking. It's not a daily thing, and I wouldn't want to give up space for a built-in in my own medium sized kitchen. If I had a huge space or a separate pantry, I might.

It is the Better Homes and Gardens Flip Tite containers. See if this works.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Better-Homes-Gardens-Flip-Tite-Square-Container-4-5-Cups/885267818

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Better-Homes-Gardens-Flip-Tite-Square-Container-16-Cups/370961661

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Better-Homes-and-Gardens-18-6-cup-Rectangle-Container/743963660

The OXO I have seen at Bed Bath & Beyond.

thanks Sherry. that works. Pillog, a great thread, No. sorry, I mean a GRRRRRRREAT thread. I need to go through it in depth and study it. I don't know why when I do a topic search, it only seems to bring up old threads. I'm in the planning stages of my kitchen and if I want to do a built in now is the time to think about it. In one version of my plan I have room for another wall appliance and had loved the vacuum sealer when I saw it on my Miele show room visit. This was also the night that I had taken a whole side of Costco salmon out my freezer. I had thrown it into my freezer as is. When I took it out it had freezer burn and I did the sniff test to see if it was okay. Well, it didn't smell fishy but had a weird smell. So out it went. And out we went.....

For an appliance to be useful. it has to function as promised and be easy and convenient to use. My food savers don't seem to work well and storing them 45 steps away also guarantees that it wont be used often. Grocery shopping is also not convenient to go frequently where I live so I tend to stock up when I do go. If the built in ones really function well, are highly recommended and because of the placement , is easily accessible then it might be a consideration ..

The search function is weird, and Google has become nigh on useless. I had a hard time finding that thread, and ended up searching on Zero because I knew we'd talked about it.

You sound like you're the perfect client for the built in. I know people who are planning on Zero, but I don't know anyone with one installed. A year or two ago, many major appliance makers were showing them in Europe, including Gaggenau and KitchenAid. If you go for it, I'd think either Miele or Irinox would be fine, so just choose the features you like best. Or be cagey. Check out the dimensions of all of them, and plan your cabinetry accordingly, so you can switch one out if you change your mind about features, or have one fail and want to change brands.

An alternative, but not as lovely if you have the money to spend on Zero, is DIY. Find a countertop sealer that you like. Have a drawer built with the power in it (there's electrical hardware for the purpose of having appliances on slide outs). The drawer front could drop down with proper bracing to extend your work surface, and you could have storage for bags, rolls, cutters, pens, etc. Then convenience is well served, and you don't have to get the thing out of storage, or look for accessories or anything. Even if you get the Miele or Zero, you should plan on bag, cutter, pen storage by the unit, or by the place where you're prepping the food (ideally, all will be within a pivot or step of each other).

Pillog. you are awesome to put so much thought and time into detailed answers. You are ALL awesome for taking time to answer.

I looked again at the zero and Miele, Wolf, Gaggenau. I'm most likely going with the Miele xxl cso and a 30 inch oven underneath that. The Miele (at around 5 inches)would then fit in well (spatially and aesthetically) in that tower, between the two. I don't think the chamber for the Zero is any bigger than the others I have mentioned but the unit is much bigger so might require placement in another run of cabinetry. I have limited runs for tall cabinet placement (I have ONE wall in a very open plan kitchen. ) One question about the Miele is, does it require only Miele supplied bags? If so, then, knowing Miele, the bags would be very expensive as opposed to the generic cheaper bags that a vacmaster might use. Add that onto the higher cost of a built in and it might be overkill all round. On the other hand, one of the things I liked about the MIele is that it reseals snack bags. if it can reseal those bags, then why wouldn't it work with any bag? I will wait until after the weekend to call Miele to ask them about this point.

If I go with a Vacmaster or similar, it's a pretty large machine. I'm planning an island with somewhat taller garage for small appliance storage along the back. This was going to be 18 inches deep. This appliance garage would be the most suitable placement for this brute but the depth of it would require it to be at least 20 inches deep. This then alters other dimensions in the kitchen layout.

First world problems, indeed....

The actual sealing part of the unit will work on any plastic film. The big caveat is if the film is too dense or strong, the machine might not be strong enough to get a good seal. Cheaper wouldn't be the issue. :) For cooking, you need cooking rated bags, and those usually are more expensive and heavier, besides not degrading in heat.

Do some very careful measuring before you throw something between your ovens. I have a previous model Gaggenau CSO (the only one out there at the time!) and regular oven stacked. I so tried to fit them side by side but was short an inch, and they would have looked dumb. The last thing I wanted was to be pulling my cast iron goose pot out of an under counter oven! Not to mention there was no way I was making pizza on the kitchen floor! Not to be thought of. I had to compromise, and with the side opening Gaggenau doors, I didn't have nearly the constraints that a drop down door gives. Like how do you get your hands into an oven where the door drops to bust height?

My CSO is head high, when it should really be no more than shoulder high (i.e., mid-point is nose, not collarbone), but since watching it isn't very useful anyway, I went with it. I also have an ugly but safe and useful warehouse platform step for the shorties. :) That puts the big oven at hip high. Optimal would be with the center at the elbows, because that gives you your strongest lifting position, but this will do. I still do think, after nine years, that the one is too high and the other too low, but it works. The very last thing I'd want is another appliance between. There are a couple of inches of necessary cabinetry, but that's all.

Measure, measure, measure. Go try them out in a showroom if you can. Check how the doors feel. Figure out what your tolerance is in getting things in and out.

BTW, another location for a sealer, either built in or on a shelf, is in the upper section of a full height pantry cabinet. Unfortunately, to be of good use, the vacuum sealer should be between thigh and bust high, preferably waist. (Same as a warming drawer, btw.)

I'm more than happy to help. I certainly benefited from the old Kitchens forum when I did my kitchen. It's too big an undertaking to get wrong, and if you actually cook, way way too important to leave to a designer or architect who don't get that function must trump looks every time.

Absolutely true. That is true about the oven. I am waiting until a) i can get back to my other house where I have double full size ovens in one stack and an Advantium, warming drawer and large drawers in another stack to measure those heights as I have never had an issue with them being too high. And b) for when I can get back to the Miele experience center to play around with heights. Good point about the pantry being a good location. I have one more possible potential space in that wall in a pantry cabinet stack. And some possible under counter positions. Or another reworking of that back wall may be required.

Just as long as the functionality of the appliance justifies that expense. I just don't want to be like a member of a family I used to know who would buy the most expensive appliances to show off and then not use them because they were too cheap to pay for the running costs. Like 50 years ago they were the first people to have a dishwasher but didn't want the maid to use it so she washed all the dishes by hand. Or more recently wouldn't use a dishwasher because "it used up too much electricity". Or had huge expensive tv's in every room but wouldn't pay $5 a month for the cable box. So nobody could watch on them.

I thought ( and I haven't tried it out yet) that one could only use Foodsaver bags in the Foodsaver.

" I thought ( and I haven't tried it out yet) that one could only use Foodsaver bags in the Foodsaver. "

Nope. There are several sources for generic bags that work well in FS and often at a lower price. Even Walmart sells their own brand of them here.

Dave

That sounds like a big and expensive commitment to keeping munchies from going soggy! I store things like that in canning jars with tight lids and it works very well.

If I plan on a more long term storage, I vacuum seal the jars with my Foodsaver.

Vacuum sealing something in a clean mason jar with the Foodsaver works amazingly.

Last summer I vacuum sealed some watermelon chunks in a jar and because of circumstances it stayed in there for almost two weeks. I was ready to clean the fridge and opened up the jar only to find that the melon was in perfect fresh state! I was shocked! I fully expected it to be way past its time, but,...............

I sometimes cook stews and bake biscuits for my daughters family. I seal them in clean jars with the sealer and they will keep very fresh in her fridge for over a week.

I can't say enough good about glass canning jars for all kinds of uses in the kitchen. You can always see what is in there. They look nice and inviting. They keep things really cold. They don't absorb odors or stains. They can be sterilized. They can go in the freezer, with caveats. They can be vacuum sealed, and you can put them in a hot water bath to can with.

I store the ring on the jar and the lids are all the same, so there is no looking for the right lid.

If you really keep a stocked freezer, the real thing that would concern you is to not lose electrical power for too long. That can be a gamble with keeping a freezer full of stuff, depending on where you live.

Had you properly put your salmon in proper storage containers it would not have become bad.

Also, if vacuum sealing were that viable of an option for you, it would seem that you could find some way to use the ones that you say you have.

I suspect that you might be expecting too much of the vacuum drawer that you are considering.

I can't imagine setting up a whole kitchen just the way I want it. Well maybe after so much experience and many kitchens...though it did take me some serious time when I replaced my double wall ovens with a side door oven and a steam oven. It is perfect. The oven is clear glass and right at eye level. Steam oven below...opens at crotch level, no bending over.

I would want a vac drawer right where I prep bulk food. I use my cheap food saver maybe once a week or 3 weeks goes by sometimes. I did 6 packages of sausage quickly last weekend and love having it where I want it...not between my ovens. I would put it in a drawer or where you plan to prep. A restaurant quality vac costs starting around 6-700. A telescoping sturdy drawer could hold it easily. Bringing home bulk food would most likely be packed and processed on a big island area.

Take in a couple chip bags and see what it does. is it oil or dry? (motor)...bags for a chamber vac are pennies compared to food saver bags 30-50cents. They also work completely different. I would love to have one but no room really. 4-5000 is steep since that is 50FoodSavers. An 7-800 restaurant chamber vac would allow for bags for 20 years+. link HERE

First understand how they work. look at youtube...foodsaver vs chamber vac...

Digdirt, wednesday morning and sleevendog, you bring up very good points and all are something to take into consideration. All the comments and advice are greatly appreciated and exactly why I'm researching, asking questions and considering every option at this stage. I'm taking about a year to research and plan as much as I can and looking at every angle. I do all the what ifs, what I would like, what do I need , how would I use them, what might be possible, no matter how outrageous they may seem at this point. I have made the mistake in the past, not to consider every option and then once we have completed a major renovation, turned around and said. well, why didn't we include this in the renovation, And the answer is because we didn't look at everything we should have and kept our focus too narrow.

I love getting all your points of view and finding things I may not have thought of. Thank you.

Wednesday morning, great idea about using the canning jars for more options.

I love that vacmaster and similar machines and had watched a number of youtube videos on it. But the issue is where to store it. It's huge and heavy and at 60 to 80 lbs not portable. The chamber is not much of a different size to the built in appliances but the machine is so big that it would have to sit out on a counter taking up a lot of space for something which might not be used every day. I'm trying to design my kitchen with minimal appliances on the counter but are in a convenient location for us. Where do people who have this store it. In one video. the subject of the video stores his in the garage. That wouldn't work for me.

Waverly - what did you end up going with?

I ha e a VacMaster VA-112 but we are redoing our kitchen with the Miele CSO, Vac and plate warmer as a stack. The Miele drawer is a chamber vac.

A chamber vac is a million times better that any suck-the-air-our model. You can incorporate liquids. Can have much higher vacuum, which can really change the texture of foods if you want it to, and better infuses.

Nraizmansorry, I didn’t see this before.
I decided to go with A VACMASTER VP 112S.. it sits in a utility room just off the kitchen with a lot of counter space. Seeing that I don’t use it every day, it is a great option and saved me a few thousand dollars. I absolutely love it.
If I didn’t have that option I don’t know what the answer is. It’s big and takes up a lot of counter space and would be unsightly in a kitchen. Maybe a cabinet with an appliance lift. But then you have to weigh up the costs of that and losing a cabinet. It needs a lot of headroom.

Jeff Nolan, it will be interesting to see how you like the wolf CSO after the Miele.

Jeff Nolan - curious why not go with the Miele again? Was there something you didn't like? Or something that intrigued you about the Wolf option? Thanks for sharing. We are considering a drawer but still early in my research. Don't love my standalone sealer b/c it can't do liquids. And not sure I have the counter space for a Vacmaster or something like it.

Jeff Nolan. Going to be doing up our kitchen soon and also looking to get the Miele vacuum drawer all I go with our other Miele appliances. Do you think the cost is worth it? Any problems with it?

I would urge caution in buying the Miele vacuum sealing drawer. While I love the functionality there are potentially expensive downsides with this device being built-in. After 5 months of operation, our drawer will no longer stay closed apparently due to defective side rail closers. To repair, the entire unit needs to be removed (including in our case a Miele steam oven that sits right above it). This is a $1,300 repair to remove both appliances and do the repair. And I will note Miele's customer service is not as good as it once was with supporting customers with issues like this.

Bought another Miele vacuum drawer, along with a Miele XXL steam oven. We did not go with Wolf. Our range is a La Cornue Chateau 180. Happy with all the appliances we selected. True refrigerators and Cove dishwashers