They still have heat coming from heating elements from different directions depending on the mode. They have a choice in direction of airflow, from the top and from the back

This video might have more info.

https://youtu.be/Orqs28aWqBA

This is from the manual.

One thing I would be afraid of is the porcelainized coated racks. It seems like they would chip.

I like mine, I bought the Monogram version; identical to the Cafe interior wise. Have not had problems with racks chipping. Unlike many on this forum who clean their ovens by hand instead of using self clean, HATE scrubbing ovens and grates by hand but like a clean oven.

I've been known to leave racks in the oven during self clean even though you're not supposed to.

Consequently, porcelain coated racks are a helpful improvement for me.

Inga

Inga, how long have you had your oven? Can you comment about using the direct air vs the conventional convection and how they are each useful?

How is the broiler?

My fear about the enamel is that the racks get moved around a lot at my house. I put cast iron in mine sometimes. If you have any flexing, I'm not sure how the enamel would tolerate that. I've had enamel issues with three brands, 2 after the self clean, so I am a little wary. It would be nice to have self clean that did not destroy the oven and that you could leave the racks in!

That CT9570SLSS oven with the Mini Cooper doors appears nearly identical to the CT9550SHSS oven with a standard door but costs $2300 more, list.

My GE Profile range (2004) has porcelain racks. I'm not a heavy baker but no damage has occurred thus far (either to the racks or to the oven cavity regards to self-clean). Porcelain racks can be left in the oven for self-cleaning, although they typically will become a little hard to slide in/out.

I have never used self-clean on my ovens..and I have kept clean, rarely-serviced ovens. My last double oven (Thermador) lasted 15 years and that's pretty impressive considering it was the first generation of "hidden" bake-element ovens. The tech that came out for a new oven (My control panel on my Thermador needed a tweak but there were no longer parts for it) confirmed what I always knew...told me that self-clean is the quickest way to shorten the life-span of an oven, told me to never use it ;). Note-the new oven is a Dacor and is being replaced on Tuesday by another brand because of immediate flaws/issues within the first month

I believe manufacturers put the Self-Clean option on ovens not because there is no other good way to clean an oven, but because 1) customers want/demand it....but more importantly 2) because THEY benefit (the industry prefers you are replacing your appliances every 5-8 years rather than hang onto them for 15-20 years. ...otherwise they would allow for extended warranties BEYOND the 5 years..self clean will stunt the life of the oven)

Keeping a clean oven: No foil EVER on the bottom of the oven but directly beneath a dish (example foil on cookie sheet with pie dish on top) to catch spills. Beyond that, sweep or vac out crumbs and then soap and water on a rag AFTER the oven cools down. White vinegar and baking soda if you need some added oomph. Today's hidden-element ovens make it too easy to maintain a clean oven, self-clean is not necessary... just convenient (though I disagree with that too).

Hi wekick,

I had to do a search (on Google) for my post of the new oven and installation to tell you how long I've had it. Can't find anything searching on Houzz. https://www.houzz.com/discussions/removal-of-gaggenau-bo-280-installing-ge-french-door-wall-oven-dsvw-vd~3471537

Looking at the picture of it finished and installed in our Fl house brings tears to my eyes. I'm in Utah with really crappy appliances and kitchen design. While I've used it a lot and used the self clean function a number of times naturally not as much if I was there full time.

I fully understand your concern about enamel chipping. I've followed your horrible story of "blue enamel" and the grief, time and money all of that has cost you. Enamel is basically glass as you know which is NOT good to ingest. I have a couple of cast iron pans but mostly I use Le Creuset gratin pans (also cast iron) in my oven for finishing meats that I started on the range top.. One tends to pick them up by both ends maybe that's kinder to the grates. Don't know.

The broiler is OK but I thought it was nicer/better on the Blue Star French oven, which as I recall is under glass. It works OK has low and high settings as I recall. I also burned a few things trying to get used to which setting to use and how far to have the items from the broiler.

The convection is something that I rarely use preferring the "old fashioned" way. You know, old dogs new tricks :)) I had everything nailed down with temp time to do for example pork rib roast.

My friend said I really should use the convection mode it evens all of the temps out. I did and everything was overdone albeit evenly overdone. Probably the cooks fault not the oven.

I know you're an avid baker so convection and even temp is important. I rarely bake anymore with the occasional tart, cake or pie for dinner parties. I do still make french bread. I feel the oven heats evenly and cooks evenly with normal setting. I've checked it with my RA gun. I also throw a half a cup of water in the bottom to create steam when making bread.

I suspect I'm not very helpful. I will however, have another GE French door oven when we remodel this house. As I previously mentioned I generally left my racks in during self clean. I know some of the newer ovens won't clean with anything left in the oven. Personally, I hate machines telling me what to do. I also have to occasionally leave a rack in as I put my Kiln Shelf/pizza stone thru a self clean. Have been doing that for YEARS without any problem to the rack..

People, Don't do that with your pizza stone. My kiln shelves are rated to 2400 degrees F

your pizza stone will probably fall apart if not actually melt at 900 degrees self clean temp.

I believe GE was the first to have enamel coated racks but other brands are now coming out with them.

Inga

ccwatters said

" I believe manufacturers put the Self-Clean option on ovens not because there is no other good way to clean an oven, but because 1) customers want/demand it....but more importantly 2) because THEY benefit (the industry prefers you are replacing your appliances every 5-8 years rather than hang onto them for 15-20 years. ...otherwise they would allow for extended warranties BEYOND the 5 years..self clean will stunt the life of the oven)"

I would disagree with that statement. Yes customers want self clean function. It is after all 2019 and self clean function was developed in the 60's I think. It's old technology. What's new and the problem is electronics in all of the ovens. My first self clean oven was in the early 70's. All of them lasted. Mind you all you had was a temperature knob and the self clean start stop and a clock. NO electronics. Zero, that's why they lasted.

Do manufacturers benefit from ovens breaking in 5-8 years? Of course they do. It's also the consumer who wants more and more gadgets and things all of which are more likey to break.

I can't understand why anyone in this day and age of convenience and wonderful products wants and thinks they must play the Cinderella role scrubbing ovens. It's kind of silly. Personally I have better ways to spend my time. (I guess many on this forum have cleaning people so they are not doing the scrubbing. ) Instead, we should DEMAND manufacturers make better ovens that last with self clean functions. GE and Gaggenau seem to know how to build ovens that work using self clean. In addition, I can't recall any manufacturer in the past having warranties that lasted for 5 years. Generally, warranties have been 1 year. Has nothing to do with self cleaning functions. Now some of them actually offer 2 yr warranty.

Inga

To the OP(robertgoulet) - I apologize I didn't respond to your initial question about convection, it seemed that the first response did that quite well. I thought that my thoughts on self-clean mode - in response to another poster - would be helpful to any oven owner :)

****Also, be sure to locate a service tech and do the due diligence of asking about their experience with the oven you are considering for purchase, issues, repair time, etc.****

Per Inga:

"I can't understand why anyone in this day and age of convenience and wonderful products wants and thinks they must play the Cinderella role scrubbing ovens. It's kind of silly. Personally I have better ways to spend my time. (I guess many on this forum have cleaning people so they are not doing the scrubbing. )....."

Hi Inga - I'm not sure what I said that caused you to feel defensive, but I can assure you I was trying to be helpful, which is what I think the goal of this forum should be.

In owning and using [Hidden-element] convection double-ovens for the last 15+ years (electronic control panel and all), I assure you I do NOT want more gadgets on my ovens. Convection bake, Convection Roast, and Proof are the settings I use most. It's my opinion the abundance in settings-options have gotten carried away, but overall, convection ovens are far-superior to the basic ovens of 25 years ago in the way they:

1) Save me a time and money in that I can make my own bread, pizzas, etc very easily (ie par-baking multiple racks of pizza dough to freeze and use at convenience later)

2) Allow me to make more things all at once with the convection settings and save a lot of time for my family's busy schedule (3 kids from 11-19 has been a lot of soccer, volleyball and lacrosse schedules over the years)

And yes people want self-clean, but because I have seen a lot of issues due to self clean on here (chipping etc)....and I have had such success over the years with the cleaning methods described...I thought I would share in an effort to help people who didn't know that there's a potentially-better way. I don't see myself as any kind of slave to my oven with these methods (no "cinderella" scrubbing needed). In fact, being a very busy mom with NO cleaning lady, I need the easiest and most effective way to do all things I have to tend to in my life!

So.....

1) Putting some foil or a baking sheet beneath sauces, pies, spillover items, (NOT on the oven floor) and

2) Wiping a cooled oven down with a piece of damp paper-towel or a soapy rag a few times a year

....is MUCH more convenient and logical to me than being captive to a 2 hour clean cycle that

1) is at such extreme high temps that it makes me both uncomfortable staying in the house with, or nervous to leave because of

2) would not be as good for the performance of my oven as just wiping it down.

3) I honestly don't have time wait for

4) gives my oven a better chance at performing better for longer

None of theses reasons seem "silly" to me and I clearly have no extra time to waste....nor money or time on repairs.

Finally, just an FYI.....As I mentioned, some companies offer "extended" warranties. For example, Miele offers extended warranties for purchase. Their original warranty is 1 year on their ovens, 2 years if installation is by authorized/certified...and then they offer additional 3 year warranties to cover up to 5 years (around $350 for their double ovens).

Wolf offers an initial 2 year warranty, 3 years if installed by certified/authpurized installer. Yet they do not offer extended warranties, BUT your appliance store likely does...and that is up to 5 years.

In my opinion, knowing the brand's warranty details (length of time, if parts are easily available, etc) is a very important thing when considering your appliance decisions.

As I said, my ovens lasted a long time, and I believe it has much to do with not using my self-clean mode. People can take or leave that opinion, but t's my thought that the goal of Houzz should be to help others, I hope that's what this and any of my posts do :)

ccwatters,

Sorry if I came across as defensive. Not my intention. Peace!

Inga

No apologies needed Inga, I just wanted to clarify that I was trying to help anyone looking for any helpful info on ovens....I am in the midst of replacing my own ovens, and I found that so much about the subject isn't as covered as much as it could be. So I was just trying to add some helpful info for anyone who may want it :)

GE brought self-clean to the market in the 1963, labeled as the P7 -- P being pyrolytic and 7 being the KW of electricity used by the cleaning process.

dadoes,

Thanks for the info. I didn't know it was GE who brought self clean to the market.

Inga

Thanks Inga, your post was very helpful. I always like to hear what people are doing with their ovens.

I just use convection when I want browning and maybe not for the whole baking time. I use it even with a closed container to bring it to tempersture faster. It sounds very interesting to have the options of airflow from the top or the back.

It it is sad that something like self cleaning that has worked well since the 1960s now will destroy your oven. My mother had one of the first self clean ovens (GE) and it lasted at least 20 years and was still going strong when they sold the house. I learned to bake in that oven and I'm sure she bought it for the convenience. For more years than I care to think about, ovens worked and I never gave them a second thought. We stay at some condos on the beach and they would run the self clean if the ovens were used at all every week. I hate cleaning ovens too. I wait until the weather is nice and throw the attic fan on and run the self clean. Now I make a baking powder paste and let it set all night which works ok.

ccwaters, my last remodel started with Dacor ovens and they were the most ill designed appliance I have ever seen as far as the way they work. The experience made me start looking very closely at how ovens work. I do like the open radiant element on the bottom though for pies. Dacor did at least buy them back after a lot of back and forth. We moved on to Wolf because of its reputation for the range and were very disappointed that they did not stand behind it when it chipped.

Self-clean has had no adverse effect on my 2004 GE Profile (electric).

My neighbor has three rental properties. One has a Frigidaire gas range with self-clean (less than 5 years old). Rental tenants, being as they are, tend to not clean anything very well. I helped him clean/prep between the last tenant change. Ran self-clean on it, the oven turned out pretty much pristine, other than a drip on the glass inside the door from something spilled down the front. The cooktop, I had to scrub with an SOS pad.

One of my sisters has a gas Kenmore range (sourced from WCI/Electrolux/Frigidaire) in the house they bought a few years ago. I was there a couple months ago to investigate a dishwasher problem. She mentioned needing to clean the oven so I got self-clean going. No trouble involved, other than we needed to go to town for an errand and didn't want to leave the oven running so I cut the cycle short and the results weren't as good as if it had to run to finish.

Wekick

Thanks, I will remember to switch on convection when I want more browning.

As for self clean.

Every repair person claims self clean will shorten the life of your oven.

Recently, I had a guy come to fix the hinges on the door (not my GE oven) He's brand new just a kid and spouts off that the self clean function shouldn't be used. I'm glad they are training young people to repair appliances but this kid clearly hasn't seen much of anything.

I think it's a mantra among appliance repair people and now is a fact "self cleaning will shorten the life of your oven or destroy it.)

Things for whatever reason don't seem to last like they used to. I say it's all of the do dads but I have no science to back it up. I do know most appliances from years ago lasted and lasted. Our previous house had a Frigidare side by side. It had no service calls and was still going 25 years later when we sold the house. Same with the self clean oven, can't remember the brand probably GE. The dishwasher was still running and had only one repair in 25 yrs (the soap dispenser wouldn't open)

I cook! My appliances are tools that I use like everything else in my kitchen.

When I roast a chicken, I have a mess in the oven as I roast it on high temperature. I find it hard to believe a wipe down when the oven cools will clean the mess that is now baked on. My Gaggenau oven had a rotisserie which I absolutely loved. The mess it made was awful but the chicken was devine.

I guess we all have a different way of doing things. Its also interesting how people look at things.

Example: Reading recent reviews on GE Advantium a number of people complained of how much trouble it was to change the plate from ceramic to metal when using the speed cook function. I find that laughable since I've owned one since 2000. You take one plate out and put the other one in. It's that simple. I do have a drawer right under the Advantium where I keep all of the dishes, plates etc so I don't have to rummage around the kitchen looking for the metal plate.

Inga

To the OP - I hope the ongoing discussion is only helping in your decision making process. Something I forgot to mention, Monogram was one of my contenders because of its ACTUAL large capacity...and I thought it was a great option at a great price-point. I ended up going with Wolf, however, for its convection method that I preferred over the Monogram. Again, call your service techs in your area (that service different brands so you know they are not only GE techs) and ask them directly for their input, but my two cents is GE is a good option to consider.

Wekick - I know about your disappointment with Wolf, your story has played a part of my research and concern about the Wolf I'm about to get on Tuesday. I didn't know though that you started with Dacor...they are taking my oven back as well because the issues are irreparable as noted by service tech. From that experience of having a brand new oven installed and used and failing all in one month's time....pushing me back again to researching another new oven to buy (ugh)..... I "tried" to make an educated decision that would help me avoid this situation happening again. And I came up with one conclusion: there is just no guarantee that ANY next oven will be as reliable and maintenance-free as my last.

I ended up narrowing my selection down to Wolf, Miele, and GE Monogram.After doing my due diligence with calling each manufacturer, speaking to outside techs, etc...I chose Wolf for the best "chance" I have at getting an oven that has the main settings I use regularly along with a reliable, solid warranty that I hope will hold up if I use it the same way I did my Thermador. But I know there is no guarantee....

Interesting fact through my selection process....I did discuss the blue chipping with both Wolf, two outside service techs, and looked into the class action lawsuit as well....all responses and [lawsuit] evidence point to the self-clean mode being a major culprit. To be honest, I don't know why Wolf doesn't just lose the blue enamel. Nevertheless, I am cautiously worrying a little less knowing that I never use my self-clean mode....and I really never had to "scrub" my oven with anything more than a little extra elbow-grease on some rare spots........it was never perfectly-just-like-brand-new clean, but it was clean ;)

Additionally, it struck me that there were many people online who DID have issues with their Thermador (the same one I had loved). And I - again - thought back to how I never used self clean. I also thought back to a service tech who has been in the business for YEARS telling me to never use self clean because it can cause issues and it WILL shorten the overall life of the oven. And honestly, it's only logical. So the self clean mode may have been around for a long time, but that doesn't mean it's good for an oven.

I'm just sharing in hopes to help my fellow-consumer...I'm definitely not trying to frustrate anyone, only hoping to help people have a potentially better chance at keeping their ovens in better shape and for longer. An extremely hot oven that gets so hot it is required to lock you out to save you, and that they suggest getting small pets out of the vicinity of, and that you are scared to leave unattended as well.....yes, I think it's a safe guess/opinion that this could add additional wear on an oven that would not occur if you didn't use it.

One last point: Do NOT put foil over or even let any foil hit the bottom of your hidden-bake-element ovens. Foil directly on an oven floor will act as an "oven" to that oven floor. The bake element is heating beneath the oven floor, the foil is covering the oven floor....therefore the oven floor is then literally "baking" between those two points. I have mentioned that I do put foil beneath a pie plate, a pan full of sauce, a roasting dish etc...but that foil is on the actual RACK I'm cooking on, not the oven floor.

Wekick - I truly hope that your issues with Wolf get/got resolved in a satisfying way to you and that whatever oven you have/get next. that it is an absolute dream for you to bake in! I've had my share of battles with big-ticket items companies (a GM car years ago), and getting it resolved can be like another full-time job....you deserve a good baking experience :)

ifoco,

The repair techs you've run into may say not to use self-clean ... but that does not comprise all of the repair techs in the industry. I know at least one that makes it clear he does not support that restriction.

GE does recommend to avoid using it more than once per month.

Myself, I would never buy a self-clean oven and not use the feature. That's silly. How do you explain that my range at 14 years of age has not been damaged by it?

Anyway, everyone should and must do whatever makes them happy and secure, that's what gathering information and consumer choice is about. :-)

i dont know who is right and who is wrong, but a 14 year old range would have considerably less electronics in it then a modern range which I think is ifoco's theory on why self-cleaning damages these ovens...exposure of sensitive electronics to extreme heat?

I think this is an interesting discussion point.

Funny story, when I FIRST was thinking I wanted a wolf rangetop instead of range...one reason was concerns over bluechipping ala wekick...and the other concern was not having a self-cleaning feature which I assumed my wife would find important. I also took the self-clean feature as sort of a table-stakes feature of an oven...like having a timer. Small things that fancy pro-style ovens didnt offer...so in small part I was also saying, I dont know what features I NEED in an oven, but I would like a modern oven which is current with features and capabilities (I have never owned a quality or newer range)...whatever those features and capabilities may be...I just know if the oven doesn't even offer self-cleaning, its not going to offer any of the other features and capabilities I am going to want when I realize everyone else's ovens have them.

Flash forward to now, and I am learning more and more about the potential risks associated with using the self-cleaning feature on your oven and i find myself realizing that in my entire life...(not a considerably long life to this point but whatever)...7 years in a condo after college, 3 years in another condo after that, 5 years in our current home...I have never once run a self-cleaning cycle on a range....so maybe, as stupid as it sounds, it would be wise to not START using a self-cleaning cycle on a new fancy range with sensitive electronics that I could later find out I was damaging.

Final 2 cents on the subject...didnt occur to me until reading this thread and other conversations like it on the houzz forums, but my parents bought new jennair appliances for their kitchen a few years back. They were only in the house for maybe 2-3 years after buying the appliances but I do recall when it was pretty new, my mom ran a self-clean cycle on her new wall oven (nicest she ever had) and it shattered the glass in the door.

The only non-electronic controls on my range are the cooktop burners. Oven control is a computer board and touch panel. All controls are on a top/rear console.

When I bought my ovens, I knew it they had electronics but also felt like if they offer self clean, you should be able to use it. I did not expect the actual structure of the ovens to be damaged.

are those enamel racks ok with sliding big cast iron pieces on them?

I have had no issues with my Le Crueset Dutch ovens. I use the glide racks mostly and pull them out on that. My 12 inch Lodge also has no issues.

Boschboy- hope you see this. We now have the GE Cafe oven , just installed, and I’m wondering when you use the convection mode (roasts or?) and when you use other options . Also, I haven’t set up the wireless option because I don’t see the advantages for my everyday life. I used a professional grade oven thermometer to test the oven settings and they are accurate. Very pleased by that.

Hi! Glad you are liking the oven so far. I use the convection bake single rack when baking a loaf of bread or a single sheet of cookies. I use the convection bake multi-rack when doing 2 sheets of cookies at once. I use the convection roast when cooking meats. The convection broil I use when reheating things that I want to crisp like pizza slices. For both the meats and pizza slices I usually elevate them on the pan so the air can circulate underneath.
Things like cakes, casseroles or anything in a baking dish I use the regular bake without convection.
Yes, I cook and bake a lot. It is my ‘hobby’.

Boschboy- in case you’re keeping track of his thread, I promise not to keep asking questions but I’d appreciate a tiny bit more input .

I’m wondering about rack placement. For instance, the top rack, probably meant for broiling, seems extremely close to the top oven coils. Do you use the rack in the the highest possible position for broiling? I’m wondering about excessive grease splatters on the coils.

Also, none of the racks in the top oven are placed at the middle of the oven but it looks like there is an option for adjusting the racks do that a pan can be in the middle?

The racks which aren’t on rollers did need to be rubbed with graphite ( which came with the oven) before they rolled smoothly. I know it’s off topic but I love to cook so if there are any cookbooks you recommend for baking bread, cookies, or holiday meals I’d appreciate the info.

i won’t keep asking for mor info, promise! You’ve been very helpful. I made some excellent baked fish in the oven tonight. A simple recipe but everything turned out evenly browned on top and perfectly tender.

Hi J Corn. The top rack is too close to the broilers and I have not used it. For the middle rack I use the 4th rack. The glide rack height combined with the food in the pan place it in the middle for me.
The broiler is very strong so make sure to watch it closely. I did have an oops moment where I was broiling burritos to crisp them and set them on fire twice. In our house it is known as the twice flambeed burrito meal. LOL
I am a huge America’s Test Kitchen fan. For cookies I use their Perfect Cookie book. It has over a hundred recipes with color pictures and exact descriptions. For breads I use their Bread Illustrated book. This really gave me the confidence to bake almost any bread. There are pictures showing each step and that really helps. Both books should be available from your library if you want to check them out first. I also have their Holiday Meals book. It gives good ideas for planning entire menus.
Hope that helps.

This is a very helpful post. I’m wondering what rack I would use to broil steak. . Actually, we might not ever want to broil a steak in the Cafe oven because my spouse has an excellent stove top method for cooking a steak whigh results in an excellent charred exterior and a tender and juicy interior. I’m puzzled as to why they’d put any rack that close to the broilers but that’s a minor thing, all in all.

Also, I dont know if your rack position #4 matches the photo...they number the rack positions starting from the bottom of the oven...which means the top rack in an oven is rack 6., the one below that is rack 4, etc. My racks were automatically inserted in rack positions or levels 2,4, and 6...counting ftom the oven bottom up.

its a bit confusing because the recommended rack position is #1 for a chiffon cake but also for broiling a chicken breast ( on high). I know a lot of the fun is learning as I go But wow...does that #1. rack position ( lowest in the oven) seem counterintuitive for chicken breasts.

Oops, photo..

Hi J Corn - Excellent point. Based on the drawing it would be position 3 that I use as the middle. It is the 4th from the top.

Thanks!