Yup. What previous poster said. Kick this guy out now. Clearly not capable of doing this project correctly.

The contractor said there was waterproofing underneath the concrete. Should there be another layer between the concrete and the tile?

Also wanted to add that this is a first floor bathroom, so the floor underneath the bathroom is concrete slab. There is no subfloor or crawlspace.

Waterproofing is also needed on the walls and should be continuous with the floor.

SO bad. Find someone with a clue...a piece of wood used as the curb?...sure sign of a hack. Yes, you must waterproof over the existing walls. Go to an independent tile shop for a referral. Be prepared to pay for expertise...and be prepared to pay for quality....and be prepared to wait at least 4-5 weeks as expertise is in demand.

Yep your eyes are correct...it’s a hack job! I’m so sorry that some contractors don’t know their skill sets or when they are out of their league or worse yet have s license but no skills, talent or desire to learn. I hope you are able to get this corrected

Full stop on this. This is not the work of a professional. The tile installation is the LEAST of the problems here.

Stop work, pay no more, demand a sit-down meeting with contractor, have another person there. take notes. Educate them on what parts of local plumbing codes, ASNI and TCNA standards and manufactureing instructions they are not complying with. Then ask them to re-do the whole thing correctly. Hopefully they will quit (violating your contract) after you question, question, question and question. My GC said they would fix their mess, but then they decided to quit instead. If your contractor quits, or after they fail to re-do it correctly (which they will), send a demand letter asking for all your money back. Then hire a real pro who can do it right. Say bye-bye to your wasted money, at least temporarily, and concentrate on getting your bathroom re-built. You can sue the bad contractor if you want. It's a PITA, but it can be done. Read this:

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5725013/what-to-do-when-a-project-goes-completely-south

This is hard to hear but be grateful that you found out now before they finished the job and you paid them. This would leak and cause untold problems in a very short time, and then everything would have to be torn out.

Shower floor first , please ! Not THAT shower at all.

"Educate them on what parts of local plumbing codes, ASNI and TCNA standards and manufacturing instructions they are not complying with."

With that little skill and lack of knowledge there is no time for "teaching". It's tough to help someone when NOTHING they have done seems correct!

And Mimi as others have stated, anything is fixable but that from what your one picture shows is not anything worth attempting to fix and your next tile setter will not want to go over a substrate he did not prepare as he will own the mess.

Is there even thinset under there? Maybe he’s just laying them out to see if he has enough? Because that shower is nowhere near ready for tile of any kind. Either way, you’ve no doubt been advised that penny tile is best left to a skilled tile pro. Get one of those in there before anything else happens.

The “education” is to demonstrate to the contractor, in your upcoming business meeting, that you know they are a hack, and to move the conversation along to get them to 1) admit it’s wrong and agree to fix it; or 2) quit because they know they can’t.

If 1) let them try. After they fail again you can fire them

If 2) they’ve quit

Next, demand your money back, then move on to find a real pro who is not a hack To do that you can go in CTEF, and there are some others but I don’t know them

It helped me a lot to read the TCNA handbook which is not hard to understand, but a bunch of pros on here say that’s too hard for ordinary homeowners. I agree it’s hard to execute the work, but I disagree that it’s hard to read and understand this particular handbook of industry standards. It gave me more knowledge than the contractor had which helped us in the critical meeting after the botched hack job.

At the very least, in your meeting, ask him to describe his waterproofing materials and methods to you, take notes, and post what he says here. In your meeting, keep coming back to waterproofing and what the contractor’s plan is to fix things and move forward. Meeting is not over until contractor articulates plan or quits.

https://www.ceramictilefoundation.org/find-certified-tile-installers Look here for someone competent. Unfortunately, that’s about the most incompetent job I’ve seen, and I’ve seen a lot. Good job catching that before it went any further!

Appreciate all the advice. We are meeting with the GC tomorrow and will report back.

Write your questions down before the meeting. For example,

We're concerned about the waterproofing; how did you do the waterproofing on our shower?

What's that brand? Ok, thanks, how is that product used?

Why is there a wooden curb? Is that waterproof?

Why are the concrete shower walls bare; they don't need anything on them to be waterproof?

Let them talk and take notes. If you have time tonight look up on this forum some of the threads that explain proper waterproofing. Only heed the pros when you are reading. If you don't read at least a few pro threads you'll be less equiped, so try to do a little of that. (Note: if there is a pro on here who as posted a primer for homeowners about waterproofing, please post the link). If you can do that, then when the contractor gives you wrong/bogus answers, you can say something like:

Well I read some waterproofing information and it says....

Are you sure that's an approved way of doing it, you know, like following buidling standards and the things that inspectors look for? We certainly don't want the shower to leak into our walls.

We hired you to build our shower so it won't leak, will it leak?

When/if the contractor goes off on tangents, always listen, take notes and wait for them to stop talking, or interrupt them if they go on and on. Then bring the meeting back to what the contractor proposes to do to re-build the shower properly - straight flat walls, waterproofing, nice clean tile installation - using materials and methods that are in keeping with industry standards and manufacaturer's instructions. When/if he goes off on tangents again, bring it back again to the matter at hand.

I found it helpful to not let the meeting end until the contractor agreed to fix the problems. A few times they said they had an appointment (probably the bar), and I said, of course, I understaind, if your appointment is more important than this meeting. Our meeting (on a Friday) ended with the contractor agreeing to come up with a plan to proceed over the weekend and we would talk again about it on Monday. On Monday they quit. Lucky for us because that was the main reason the judge gave us all our money back multiplied by 2.

If you have some time tonight try to look up basic waterproofing info.

When you're ready to hire a new pro, you can start here:

https://www.ceramictilefoundation.org/homeowners-guide-to-hiring-qualified-tile-installer

Wow this is a mess for sure and I am not talking about the floor . A meeting yes to fire this guy thats it and you will probably have a fight on your hands to get money back so could be a live and learn issue but you need this guy gone.

In my state, you have to give the contractor 1 chance to fix things before firing them (or they can sue you and will probably win). In my state there are 3 main things you have to do: 1) give a chance to fix; 2) make work site available; 3) don't interfere with the work.

Check the construction laws in your state. If you don't have time to check before your meeting, just to be safe, give him a chance to fix things. After he fails again you can fire him. Or maybe he'll just quit. Document your meeting like this (believe me, the judge took this eveidence very seriously, and it's a big reason why we got 2x our money back). Document like this:

-- Have your meeting, take notes, like I said above.

-- If he quits, document that in an email saying something like this: "Dear so and so, Thank you for meeting with us yesterday to discuss how you propose fixing the waterproofing and tiling problems in our shower. We were hoping you would choose to proceed with the repairs and continue the project. We're disappointed that you decided to quit the project instead of attempting to remedy the situtation. Good luck in your future endeavors. Sincerely so and so." Then send a demand letter asking for a refund, saying something like this: "Dear so and so. We were hoping you would choose to continue our bathroom remodeling project. Instead, since you have decided to quit, you have breached the contract between your company and ourselves. Please refund us in the amount of $xxx, which is the amount of deposit and draw money that we have paid you so far. In addition, we now have to re-purchase tile and other materials in the amount of $xxx. The total refund we are requesting is $xxx. Sincerely, so and so." (make a copy, send it certified, return receipt and keep the receipt that comes back to you).

-- If he says he will attempt to fix it, let him. Document that agreement in an email saying something like: "Dear so and so, Thank you for meeting with us yesterday to discuss how you propose fixing the waterproofing problems in our shower. We were pleased that you decided to do x, y, z as an attempt to fix the waterproofing and tiling problems. We look forward to proceeding with the project. See you on Thursday at 8. Sincerely, so and so"

-- Then after he fails again and it's still a hot mess, document that with an email saying something like this: ""Dear so and so, Thank you trying to fix the waterproofing and tiling problems in our shower project, as we agreed you would do at out July 8th meeting. We appreciate your attempt to fix the problems your first work crew created. Unfortunately, the shower is still not waterproofed properly. Since this was your second attempt, we have lost confidence that your work crew is capable of building our shower to industry standards and manufacturer's instructions. We have decided to go in a different direction, and hire a new contractor to proceed with the project. Our contract with you is terminated. Good luck in your future endeavors. Sincerely so and so."

Then send a demand letter asking for a refund, saying something like this: "Dear so and so. We were hoping you would able to fix the waterproofing and tiling problems in our shower. Since both of your attempts failed, we have to hire a new contractor. Please refund us in the amount of $xxx, which is the amount of deposit and draw money that we have paid you so far. In addition, we now have to re-purchase tile and other materials in the amount of $xxx. The total refund we are requesting is $xxx. Sincerely, so and so." (make a copy, send it certified, return receipt and keep the receipt that comes back to you).

Save any and all email or text replies you receive.

Good luck with you meeting.

Even if you lose $$$ now it will still be way less than the combined total cost in the near future.

If you think hiring a professional is expensive wait until you see the cost of hiring a amateur.

I will also provide the same link as above. Providing this link was my very first post. I felt it was that important for homeowners. Please use it. Nice to see it being shared by others!

https://www.ceramictilefoundation.org/homeowners-guide-to-hiring-qualified-tile-installer

What happened?

OP, did you meet with the contractor? What happened? Don't let them push you around.

Sorry about the delayed update- much contractor drama at our end. Anyway, so we bought the TCNA handbook and educated ourselves (thanks AJCN, such a useful resource). We both take the day off from work and are driving to meet with GC when he calls and cancels (a tree toppled over on his property), says he will get back to us to reschedule shortly. Radio silence for the rest of the day. At this point we assume he is going to quit, so we figure the best strategy is to get what we can for our $. He is also working on a few additional things in the townhouse, so we decided to not let him work on the shower until he comes up with a satisfactory plan but let him finish the other stuff. In the meantime his painter who still showed up lets slip that he is not our GCs regular guy, this is his first time subcontracting with him and that the tile in the shower was not laid by GC. DH looks up GCs license and finds a city permit has been issued around the same time our work started for a complete building demo and rebuild. I suspect he is trying to wing things with our project (or delegate to his flunkies) since he has bigger fish to fry.

Anyway, surprise surprise he actually shows up today morning! DH is at work so I am hesitant to discuss shower waterproofing technicalities solo. We come to the mutual decision that he is going to finsh the other work so we can move in, and then fix the shower. To his credit, he admits that the tile job is botched by his guy, but still insists shower pans on concrete subfloors do not need waterproofing. The two items that are remaining for him to complete are:

1. grouting the kitchen backsplash
2. reinstalling tile around the master bathroom tub flange. The plumbing for the tub was done by his plumber (again not his regular guy).

I want 2 since I can grout a backsplash and 2 seems more critical to making the place liveable. This is where things go further south.

Continuing in a separate post since I have pictures.

The original tub was a standard size jetted tub, flagged during inspection due to corrosion, we wanted just a non jetted tub that was usable. GC said standard size tub is fine, he could put new tub in without replacing entire tub/shower surround only the first row of tiles. I go in to see how things are going and see he is installing tile directly on the flange with backer board only on the top half, nothing at all between the tile and the stud for the lower half (first picture). Also, shouldn’t the tub actually be nailed to the stud or something? This is my first time seeing a stud, but even to me that seems off. I ask him what is going to protect the studs, he says grout and 100% white silicone which incidentally is not what he has on hand (picture 2). I tell him that is unacceptable. He says RedGard, I ask what he intends to put it onto? I ask if he can remove and reinstall the backer board so the flange can go behind it but he says then it will not form a level surface for tile because the tub is too short. I am at my wits end at this point, so I ask him to come up with a plan and get back to me before proceeding. After he leaves, I find that the other two sides of the tub also are not sealed with the tub flange. However tile has been laid over it. I proceed to spend the next half hour removing tile so it can be laid right (picture 3,4). At this point he is going to send us another plan on how to proceed with this bathroom tomorrow and we will meet to review Thursday morning. Is there any merit to his approach? Am I being paranoid?

Adding a few more pictures to better illustrate. As far as I can tell from TCNA there should be a waterproof sealant connecting the backer board to the flange and tile/grout/silicone caulk should go over it as an additional protection? (AJCN you are a rockstar)

I am sorry you are dealing with such a horrible GC. If I were you I would stop with him, can you imagine what other things in different areas of the home you are not seeing. please tell me he didnt do any electrical work

To take a loss right now of $$ will be cheaper than fixing the issue that will arise down the road from this. :(

Mimi,

Good on you for not letting A-holes push you around. It's your house.

Document, document, document.

I say good on Mimi !! for reading, learning and advocating for herself. I'm a real nerd who actually reads. I'm glad I'm not the only one.