The only logical place I can see would be on the Island. Prep sinks are smaller typically around 15" so you could put it on the island with no problems

Not every kitchen needs a prep sink. I sometimes prep on the short side of my 3'x5' island, so if you move the DW and sink toward the end of the peninsula, to provide a wider primary prep space between the sink and range, secondary prep could be on the end. Dishes could then be stored in drawers on the island, across from the DW.

Thanks @mamagoose!

How large a sink would you consider in such a set-up? I've had my eye on this large + multifunctional one from CreateGoodSinks.

The longer I look at this layout, the more I worry about having the clean-up zone between the refrigerator and prep zone, as my husband + I are often in the kitchen at the same time (one of us washing/unloading dishes or setting the table while the other cooks) - do you think this is a concern, or am I over-analyzing it?

You don't need a prep sink! Don't jam one in

Agree, the kitchen is not big enough to warrant a prep sink.

There is no place for a prep sink you have a nice big sink and clean usually happens after prep so no big deal.

You can add a prep sink to the island if there is existing plumbing. Adding plumbing can get very expensive, and if your house is on a slab, they would have to go through the flooring and slab to connect an island sink. Try living with one sink for a while.

I didn’t want a single bowl apron sink but only double was available when we were pressed to order so I got the double. Turns out I love it! One side for prep and one for cleanup, works like a charm. Suggestion: the trash bin would be better suited in the island in this thigh space with 2 people working.

Thank you for all the feedback!

We have a full basement under the kitchen, so adding/relocating plumbing isn't a major concern - we're also running a gas line up from the basement.

We've tried living with one sink in a similar layout to the one posted above (the only difference is that the range + fridge are currently side by side on the right wall), and found that access to the sink is our most-frequent choke point. That's part of why I'm interested in either a second sink or the large double-bowl (which is large enough to be a clean up and a prep sink with two faucets).

You might do a search on 'Scrappy' kitchen--IIRC, she put in a large sink with two faucets on a peninsula. If using such a large sink, you could put the trash pullout under the sink, beside the DW.

If you put a prep sink on the island, you'll have back-to-back zones anyway, and it doesn't look as if you have a very wide work aisle.

I totally agree that having back-to-back sinks doesn't work, and it wouldn't move the dishwasher.

Going way out on a limb - what about moving the clean-up sink + DW to the far side of the island, and keep a prep sink in the peninsula? I can't decide if that makes it better or worse!

No. You do not need any type of prep sink in a kitchen this size.

Prep sink -- yes or no? It's not the size of the Kitchen that determines the need or usefulness of a prep sink, it's the DESIGN of the Kitchen.

In your case, it would not make sense b/c your island is not oriented correctly to make it useful (the long side should be facing the range). In addition:

• The island really isn't wide enough. The smallest truly useful prep sink fits into an 18" sink base.
• You should have a minimum of 36", with more better, on one side of the prep sink and 12" on the the other side (18" works even better to minimize splashing water on the floor and knocking things off the island counter and onto the floor).
• That's 36" + 18" + 12" = 66" or 5'6"
• If the island is turned to face the range, your island will become a "barrier island" -- a barrier b/w the refrigerator and the Prep Zone on the island. If it is to be your secondary Prep Zone, it may not be that important; but if you want it to be your primary Prep Zone, it becomes an issue.
• If the island is not turned, then the Prep Zone in the island will be in conflict with the cleanup sink and DW -- unless your aisle b/w the island counter edge and the peninsula counter edge is wide enough, at least 48".

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Speaking of aisles, how wide are those aisles? They don't look wide enough. The minimum recommended aisle width is 42" for a one-person work aisle and 48" for two or more people working in the aisle. They look to be around 33" -- far too narrow! (Even narrower in front of the range!)

Remember...aisles are measured to/from the items that stick out into the aisle the farthest, counter edges, appliance handles, etc. They are NOT measured cabinet-to-cabinet.

• Cabinets are shown in 2D layouts with the box depth only (24"), not the doors/drawer fronts and counter edges (unless the counter edges are added -- and they do not appear to be in your layout.
• Doors/drawer fronts extend approx 1" beyond the boxes.
• Counters overhang the cabinet boxes by about 1.5" (to protect the inside of the cabinets/drawers, the exteriors of the cabinet faces, and doors/drawer fronts from spills).
• Appliance handles such as range/oven handles, refrigerator handles, etc., stick out even more.

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Oh, and if you plan to store your dishes in drawers in the island, then the aisle needs to be at least 45" to allow your DW to be open at the same time the drawers are open. 45" won't be wide enough to allow you to pass b/w an open DW door and an open drawer, but it will allow you to have them both open at the same time. You'll have to stand to the side an unload the DW into the drawers.

What is the use plan for those extra deep cabinets on the left wall of your plan? Things in the back of deep cabinets are hard to reach, hard to see, hard to even remember.

I just work next to the sink .. don't see the point of a second sink ? but I'm a Brit ..most kitchens here have only 1 sink or like me a 1 and a half sink

You do not have enough space--anywhere--in that kitchen for a 6-foot long sink unit that you linked to. You'll have no more countertop left on which to prep anything. That sink is ridiculous.

The work-station sinks convert to counter space, with the addition of integrated cutting boards. I'm not saying that the OP should use one, but the 68" sink will fit on the 8' peninsula (with reversed drainboard over the DW), if the DW is moved to the end of the peninsula. (Don't forget to account for a return panel to support the counter top.)

M/L in the same space as a 33" sink base and 18" trash pull-out cabinet, plus drainboard:

From the link:

Without seeing your adjacent spaces and traffic patterns not sure that this could work, but maybe might give you other ideas. Slide the refrigerator to the far left on the long wall, move the range across the kitchen so it is to the right of the refrigerator. Spin the island so that the long side faces the range and refrigerator and place the prep sink in the island. Something like this except your refrigerator would be tucked into the range wall.

Center Island With Sink Adds to Preperation Space · More Info

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/3144159/after-much-procrastination-my-reveal

I like mammagoose's 1st layout, because of the functional flow of cleanup makes sense; trash bin empty dirty plates , then left to rinse in sink, then left to load dishwasher.

I also really like the double faucet sink set up she posted. I cook a lot, so having all that space to clean my big pots would be ideal. I would rather have 1 big huge sink like that than a prep sink that can do so little since it is so small.

I see no major advantage to having a separate prep sink in this layout, because the main sink is close to everything. If decided to go with the bigger sink put the waste bin in island, so when prepping can easily swipe scraps away.

I rather have a pot filler above stove than a small prep sink in this layout. It's not neccesary, more of a add on feature.

I personally would not want a small prep sink. I rather have 30" wide single bowl prep or more counter space to prep on.

Good morning and happy Monday to all! OP here. Thank you for the abundance of feedback over the weekend - gives us a lot to think about! - and apologies for my absence in the discussion as I had to work. I'll try to chime in on relevant points here:

Re: work aisles - between the island and peninsula + range wall is 36" which we know is narrower than recommended; we're currently living with the recommended 42" aisles and feel like they're wider than we need. We are, however, concerned about having the DW in such a narrow aisle (see alternative layout below for a potential solution!). The passageways on the other two sides of the island are wider to accommodate main traffic flow in + out of the kitchen.

Re: deep pantry closets - these are the result of pushing that wall back to accommodate moving the fridge from its current position next to the range; we're going to work on creative storage solutions to make sure we can access everything in there (pull-out drawers? half-depth shelving? something else we haven't thought of yet?). We can't really reposition the fridge along that wall as 1) we like how the fridge is in line with the work aisle between the island + peninsula and 2) the far end of that closet needs a false bottom to accommodate headroom in the basement. We're thinking of using some of this space for our dishes.

Re: large workstation sink - as @mamagoose astutely noted (thank you!), if we pursue this option we will move the DW to the end of the peninsula, and have a large 30" clean-up sink attached to a 17" prep sink, each with their own faucet. It doesn't give us a ton of prep space left on the peninsula, but we currently have a similar set-up (minus the ridiculous sink) and do all our prep on the island, anyway.

@Buehl - thank you for weighing in! I appreciate the validation that simultaneous prep + clean-up is a common scenario - it's certainly how my husband + I work in the kitchen - and is why I worry about the kitchen as designed.

We came up with an unconventional alternative layout that relocates the clean-up zone to the far side of the island - any thoughts from you fine folk?

Would you use one of the pantries on the left for all your dishes, tableware, drinkware, etc?

Would the other side be strictly additional (shallow 12") counter space? - in other words, no stools or other seating

@DN - Correct on all counts! We're thinking of storing dishes + glassware in the bottom left pantry closet (actual storage solutions TBD) because it's sort of equidistant from the dining room (through the bottom-right passageway) and the playroom with peninsula seating (through the upper-left passageway) and easy to access without interrupting the main kitchen work aisles (prep + cooking). The side of the island behind the sink + DW would be strictly counter space (no seating, as we moved it to the peninsula) and probably end up being used mostly to "stage" dirty dishes generated during prep before they make it into the sink/DW as there won't be a lot of space to the right side of the sink. It's unconventional, but we can't find a reason why it doesn't work.

While unconventional, I think that would work, except that there is very little space to the right of the clean-up sink. I know of which I speak, since I have only about 9" to the right of my 33" clean-up sink, because of a doorway to another room. It's wide enough to set a stack of salad plates, a few coffee cups, or a handful of silverware, and I've adapted by sometimes using a large cutting board over the right half of the sink--if I need more temporary counter space. I used a positive reveal on the back of my farm sink, to make sure there was a ledge to support the cutting board--I have the DIY bargain version of a work-station sink. ;)

OTOH, when we have a large gathering, the 9" strip is great for placing glasses, which I fill from the drinks station on the island, and everyone picks up his glass on his way to the dining room, at the end of the buffet line.

I like out-of-the-box solutions, so I might consider adding a fold-down counter piece to the right of the sink cabinet, for extra landing space when needed. After the cooking is finished and the meal is served, the piece could be pulled up for incoming dirty dishes--or could be used as temporary secondary prep space before cooking commences.

ETA, this is the fold-down counter in plllog's kitchen, on the back of the island. I used the same principle, but lighter weight and less expensive hardware, on a couple of small fold-down counter tops in my home (neither in the kitchen). I re-used a plywood shelf on one, and painted plywood on the other. You could use butcher block or a custom cutting board.

One option for brackets/amazon.

Thank you, once again, @mamagoose! I appreciate your insight about having limited counter space adjacent to your sink and your strategies to manage it. Do you find that even though you have such a large sink, you still set dirty dishes next to the sink, rather than inside of it? If so, do you think we could use the space we'll have behind the sink as a staging area for dirty dishes?

I’m a big fan of a second sink otherwise you have such a bottleneck around sink. I would put a small prep sink in island, close to the fridge end, not back to back with the other sink. It will be enough to rinse fruit and veggies and wash hands.

Post your layout with measurements as well as how the kitchen fits into the rest of the house

Here's the entire first floor plan (renovation, not new build):

Do you find that even though you have such a large sink, you still set
dirty dishes next to the sink, rather than inside of it? If so, do you
think we could use the space we'll have behind the sink as a staging
area for dirty dishes?

1) I really don't have space on the right side for many items, as mentioned above. I have runnels on the left side, for easy draining of hand washed items, but we're in the habit of leaving the wire drainer in that area. (Although it fits easily in the sink.) One advantage to having a deep sink is the option to put the dirty dishes in it, rather than on the counter beside it, which is another thing that makes it OK for me to have only a narrow strip of counter on one side. Then--especially if I add the cutting board--no one can see the dirty dishes in the sink unless he is standing at the open side.

2) You can stage the dirty dishes on the counter behind the sink, but then won't you either need to walk around to retrieve each item, or reach all the way past the sink and faucets to drag items forward, or lift them above the faucets, sprayer, etc, when it's time to wash them? Maybe I'm misunderstanding? ETA, you could slide them to the area above the DW, as they are used, then they would be in a more convenient spot when time to wash them.

There have been times that I've stacked dirty dishes in a large enameled tray, on the island behind me, when I needed the sink. You could do the same with the range, and the small counter to the right. We are adaptable. :)

Is this a split level with the garage below the bedrooms? (sorry if already posted)

In other words, are the stairs beyond the island the entrance to the kitchen from the garage?

@mamagoose - I think you're understanding me correctly. I was trying to confirm that you mostly put your dirty dishes into your large sink, rather than next to it, as that is how we're thinking it would be okay to have little adjacent counter space.

@DN - you are correct! And there are a few stairs up from the basement level into the garage that are under the pantry closets, which is why those will have partial false bottoms to accommodate the headroom.

You mentioned storing dishes in the pantry cabinets beside the fridge. If you follow through with that plan, I think I'd use drawers for dish storage (not roll-outs behind doors), and leave some counter space beside the fridge. The MW could go in an upper cabinet between the fridge and pantry. Think about getting a snack, drink, or making a sandwich--counter space would be very convenient in that spot. If floor space allows, maybe have an extra deep counter, so that the coffee pot could be placed there, too.

Great suggestions, @mamagoose! We've actually been thinking about turning the skinnier closet (that will be full-height) into a functional tower with our microwave, toaster oven, and a coffee nook (assuming we can make it wide enough to accommodate). We love the aesthetics of the clean closet doors leading into the kitchen, but definitely worth considering function over form here - thanks for all the advice!

If you haven't seen cpartist's kitchen reveal, do a search and check out her 'hidden' cabinet.

Moving the sink and dishwasher to the island, especially on that side, would be terrible. When loading the dishwasher or standing at the sink for any reason you are blocking your main walkway between the kitchen and other rooms in your home. Not to mention that it would be the first thing you see from your entryway when entering the kitchen. It also gives you very limited space for setting things down from your cupboard or microwave while leaving a big expanse of countertop on the other side barely used. If you insist on having two sinks in your kitchen, go back to your original plan and put the prep sink in the island. You're wasting your island countertop, but at least you're not messing up your entire kitchen flow.

Just a side note on your master bath. You need a minimum of 21 inches in front of your toilet. Your layout does not look like you have enough room.

Can you recess the toilet one foot into the second bathroom by moving the tub down?

Some questions that came to me: Would you have trash cans/pullouts by both the clean up sink (scraping food off dishes) and the prep sink (peels, etc)? Would your prep sink be big enough to fill pots or would you run around to the other sink?

It's total sink overthink. It's not big enough. : ) Clean as you GO and there's no issue. Probably 80% of the worlds humans function with ONE SINK. They churn out great meals too,

Actually, it is serving that really messes up a kitchen.

A prep sink that is 12" front-to-back will accommodate most stock pots--mine is 12 x 17 inside, and all but my canner fit under the faucet. I would definitely want the main trash pull-out under the prep counter, but you could use a smaller, door mounted can for the clean-up sink.

Here are the traffic paths calidesign mentioned. For the record, I wouldn't design my kitchen with the clean-up sink and DW on such a small island (mine is exactly the same size--3x5--no sink), but I don't have to work in your kitchen. I do, however, think visitors and future potential buyers will think that's an unusual layout.

You are lucky to have a frequent helper in the kitchen. Me too! An extra sink makes all the difference when two are working. I would surely find a way to fit it in, but would not move it across the island. Can you move the island toward the stairwell just a few inches? It wouldn’t take much. I have 40” from island counter with prep sink to sink counter with dishwasher. Hubby and I can each be at a sink, with dishwasher open, and have plenty of room. Remember to put a garbage disposal in prep sink as well for greater flexibility. While this spacing obviously doesn’t appeal to everyone, it is really functional for me and my sous chef hubby. My friends and family all love my setup.

How much space do you need in the play room? Can the seating/prep peninsula move back into the playroom? You could then have another peninsula for the clean-up zone, but the dishes are still going to have to go on the fridge wall, unless you keep them in uppers to the right of the range hood. In the plan below, I'd keep them beside the fridge, even though there might be occasional conflict with traffic to/from the play room.

We have a similar sized island and have a small round sink in the corner so it can be used from either side.

I realized I never got the notification when you responded on your first thread... anywho, a couple of alternative thoughts that include swapping the kitchen & dining room... not 100% sure about some of the windows in the dining room, but nonetheless, some ideas that maybe you haven't considered =)

- Both layouts have the left wall of the now-dining room available for storage...

1) keeping rooms separate:

2) Opening up the wall between the kitchen and dining room (while still swapping them)

@damiarain - wow, thank you for mocking these up, I appreciate it! We did discuss this after you first suggested it, but we think it gives us a smaller kitchen, and we'd have to downsize our gorgeous tall mid-century windows that probably don't read correctly on the plans. From the listing:

I’m just going to throw this out there, and excuse how primitive it and out of scale it looks—just my fat fingers on my iPad. What about removing the peninsula to the playroom, expanding the kitchen and eating area into the playroom. Put the refrigerator on the wall beside the stove, lengthening the island with main sink on one end, DW and dish drawer in middle, small prep sink on other end. Move the wall behind the stove so that kitchen and old playroom walls line up. Behind island seating area, make the cupboards more shallow so you have more room behind the island stools ( I find that things get lost in the back of deep shelves, even with pullouts). Move the playroom to where the dining room is, and put French doors or pocket doors between new playroom and living room so that you separate the two rooms when need be. I put the mock up floor plan along side the original for comparison

ams15, that's very interesting. I think in that case the fridge should be closer to the living areas and incoming traffic, so that no one needs to walk past the range to get a drink or snack. If that little remnant of wall can be removed, maybe the range could move down far enough to vent to the exterior.

I had the impression the OP wants a connection between the prep area and play room, so I'd keep the DR, with those wonderful windows, as is.

The only drawback to this plan is the 'stadium seating' on the island--the length provides space for a work-station sink and two prep areas, but possibly only one seat on the short end.

This continues to be a lively discussion - many thanks to everyone who has weighed in! Your comments have given us a lot to think about as we consider what will work best for our family - which is ultimately what matters, right?

@calidesign, I totally hear your concerns, we had the same ones. The way we're thinking about it is that the walkway between the island + stairs is wider than between the island + peninsula, making it easier to pass behind someone cleaning up in this layout (plus it's not the only/main access point to the kitchen). Having the clean-up zone on the peninsula would be more restrictive to someone going between the sink/prep zone and the fridge/pantry storage. Looking at the traffic patterns @mamagoose mapped out, it looks better to me to have the clean-up zone separated from the prep zone given that we often perform both activities simultaneously. It does make the dishwasher much more visible, so we'd opt for a panel-ready model. We're thinking of putting the microwave on the other side of the fridge in the smaller cabinet opposite the peninsula, rather than in the larger cabinet opposite the island (like @mamagoose kindly mocked up), which gives a more appropriate landing zone for it.

@danette, good questions! I think we'd end up with small waste centers in both places, I'm hoping we'd be able to squeeze them in under the sinks to not lose too much storage space elsewhere. I wouldn't go for a tiny bar sink, so I'd assume I could fill pots at my prep sink, though the clean-up sink would be closer to the range if needed.

@janmoyer, total over-thinker right here! :) You're absolutely right that one sink is fine for most people, and would be most conventional in this kitchen, but I'm trying to be realistic about how we work - which is that more often than not, one of us is in the prep zone while the other is in the clean up zone, which makes overlap hard. We have made a lot of great meals this way, but it's frustrating for both of us when we're in each others' way.

@mamagoose, thank you for mapping out the traffic patterns! I had done that in my head, but it helps to see it drawn out. We're not super concerned about resale, as we bought this house a year ago and plan on staying indefinitely - which also helps me address your question about pushing the kitchen back into the playroom. An interesting idea for sure, but the playroom was an addition to the house (we think it used to be a patio or porch of some kind) and once kids are older we're planning on turning it into a screened-in porch again, so expanding the kitchen from its current footprint makes that more complicated.

@barrowp, we'd prefer to keep the island where it is, as the ends of the island align with the ends of the "L" making for straight walkways along the perimeter of the kitchen. Thanks for the reminder about the garbage disposal - definitely the right way to go!

@ams15, this is an impressive reconfiguration! We had something similar as one of three preliminary designs our architect proposed. Ultimately we decided to not pursue this option for multiple reasons, which is why we're trying to work within the footprint we have.