You have a very tight townhome layout, and it is working efficiently with structure and function.

I assume your upper floor footprint looks something like this outlined in red:

So you will need a post at the blue circle. There may also be some ductwork in the ceiling (the green oval) that may lower the ceiling there.

So by opening up the wall, your sight line will be interrupted by a column, maybe a soffit (where the wall is now), the visual messiness of the change in ceilings (the 'L' flat ceiling intersecting the Great Room open ceiling), but you will have a gorgeous view of the vertical circulation area (the stair). Turning the island to achieve this doesn't lend well to the intent of having seating at the island, and opening the kitchen up to the family lounging area, to begin with.

Keep in mind that the eye perceives the space of a room based on what is happening with the ceiling plane. Likewise, extending one leg of the kitchen counter/pantry into the usable space of the Dining, you will perceive the dining area being much smaller.

Thanks @3onthetree for the input. Out intention for wanting the wall taken out was to open up the entire area. We weren't too concerned about maintaining the seating area at the island.

Am I correct in understanding that removing the wall would require that a soffit or column be put in place where the wall once was? The soffit or column would create visual messiness that would go against our intent to open up the space?

I take it from your comment that the kitchen is already efficiently laid out and any changes likely wouldn't be an improvement?

I've attached the upstairs layout for reference.

Thanks!

Ok, so there is a room over the GreatRoom. But yes, I don't see how a column (right next to original layout DW) would not be needed regardless which way the floor joists run. The soffits would be required to hide any ductwork that is running perpendicular to joists underneath them, but I do not know your HVAC layout (or even joist type). Also similar to soffits, most times beams are chosen to run under joists, not flush within the same plane, so you may see those "headers" following the demarcation of walls between Stair and GrtRm, Dining and Kitchen walls. That may break up a continuous flat ceiling if that's what you are looking for.

I have spent many hours in schematics with this exact footprint (very common townhome layout), and I can tell you it is very difficult to rearrange the kitchen to allow for an independent island without losing efficiency and affecting nearly everything else.

If you don't mind the smaller dining area, I prefer your alternate layout. Walking from the living area to the fridge would be much more direct and you get more storage space. But if you can't remove the wall, the aisle would be too narrow, so it really depends on that. I would be fine with a column if it was me. Sounds like you know what you want, so you just need to talk to the builder about if it's possible or if the issues 3onthetree mentioned prevent those changes.

If this is a builder's plan (and it looks like it is), I doubt you can make the kinds of structural changes you want to. You're probably removing a load bearing wall, which is a definite no in the land of tract builds. Plus, by increasing the size of your kitchen, you're not leaving enough room for a dining table and chairs. Your dining table will need space around it to get into the kitchen and to get to the sliding doors, and you barely have enough as it is.

I like your main floor plan. It's open but not too open. Agree that you don't want the kitchen completely open to the staircase. In your blind corner, be sure you have at minimum a 15" opening to make room for a good rev-a-shelf system, not just a lazy Susan. Not cheap but worth the money.

Upstairs, definitely don't put in a gas fireplace in the master - it will severely limit your ability to arrange furniture. For bedroom#2, could they make the closet a bit wider? And could they eliminate the notch in the corner to make it easier to arrange furniture.

Are you sure your 18'2" garage is wide enough for 2 cars?

Nice house plan.

Appreciate everyone's input!

@anj_p is correct, this is a builder's plan, and we have a meeting with them this coming Monday to discuss these changes.

Like @kayozzy mentions, everything really hinges on whether we can remove that wall or not. If not, I think we'll leave everything as is. I think even in that case, we would still want to 2-3' of pantry, even if it means eating up some room in the dining area.

@partim That's great to know! We did not know about the rev-a-shelf system, but it looks like a must have!

We weren't planning on the gas fireplace in the master for the same reasons you mention. I think the 18'2" garage should just be wide enough for two cars - it'll be tight for sure. It would be nice to have at least 20'x20', but we're working within a 36' lot and I doubt we'd be able to make any changes to the garage size.

As far as a pantry, it looks like you have stairs down to a basement. My son's house and kitchen are about the same size as yours, and they have a pantry cupboard right at the bottom of the stairs in the basement. It's a good spot for seldom-used kitchen appliances and Costco bulk items. You may want to consider leaving more free space upstairs and adding storage downstairs or in the garage.

We had our meeting with the builder yesterday and, as many had guessed, the wall to the right of the island is load bearing. Given that, I think we'll leave the kitchen as-is, but we'll see if we can at least have a pass through in that wall - I think that's the best alternative.

Unless this is an attached row house, I would want some windows on the sides too.

Small window over the laundry tub would be nice.

All the bedrooms could use a window on the side.

A window between kitchen and dining area

I just want to point out some things that affect the function of the kitchen. If form is more important, that's OK, too--it's just better to know before the plans are finalized.

1) Traffic to and from DR will be going through the work zones. Of course, it can go around, through the great room, so start early training everyone to bypass the kitchen. 2) You will have very little prep space beside the sink, where it's most needed, and a lot of space between the fridge and range. 3) Where do you plan to store dishes? Next to fridge? DW door opens into entry, as do the fridge doors. (Don't forget to account for DW return panel against the wall.) 4) Will you need a column where the perpendicular walls butt, where the peninsula connects to the wall? How will that affect a pass-through?

@mama goose_gw zn6OH

1) I agree - I think early training is all that we can. We rarely have more than 1 person in the kitchen now and walking through work zones hasn't really been a big issue for us. My dog always manages to nap in the most inconvenient spots in the kitchen, but I suspect that's not a layout issue ;)

2) I've written off having any prep space next to the sink (see picture). The only space available will be directly over the DW. I imagine most of the prep work will be done on the counterspace between the fridge and range. I think the workflow won't be ideal, but we'll have to make due.

3) We'll probably store dishes where you've marked out.

4) We're going to ask about the pass-through today, but I suspect it's a long shot at this point.

I certainly didn't pay too much attention to these details when picking the house, but they'll definitely be considerations for our next house - there's just so much to think through.

You seem bent on getting a view to the GreatRm whilst you are standing at the sink. A small pass-thru like 12x12 isn't going to do much except allow you to play drive-thru McDs. Really, the house is small, you can just lean in a little over the sink to see past that wall.

Kinda in jest, but sorta seriously, flip the kitchen and dining and you have all the views and island you want. Won't happen with the builder and his spec plan, but illustrates that there are plans available that address your needs and maybe this one isn't the right one for you at this time.

I love the plan Mama Goose posted. Normally I'd say avoid adding any corners but in this case the corner added can be used for dining room storage. It allows people to go from the fridge to the dining room or great room without cutting through the work zone.

The best part is it gives you a HUGE prep area along the right wall as well as plenty of room for toasters and coffee makers to the right of the sink.

The builder might not use this plan since U kitchens aren't "in" (or because it costs more) but they are doing their buyers a major disservice.

I love the plan Mama Goose posted. Normally I'd say avoid adding any corners but in this case the corner added can be used for dining room storage. It allows people to go from the fridge to the dining room or great room without cutting through the work zone.

This plan?

Do you guys realize how small these spaces really are? You do not need circulation right next to circulation - its an inefficient use of space when every SF counts. If you are truly looking for continuous counter space (since you aren't actually adding any), then make it a galley kitchen with the same entrance on the side, just like in a high rise building.

Do you guys realize how small these spaces really are?

Can't speak for all the guys, but I realize the space is too small for an island with seating:

There isn't much square footage but that doesn't mean you can make the best of what you have and want. I'm usually all for 3 walls in a kitchen but in this case I like Mama Gooses' plan. Doesn't feel cramped, has ample prep space, and keeps people out of the work zone.

I'd leave this layout "as is" ... except for one thing: I'd add the 24" pantry cabinet to the end of the existing cabinet run ... maybe even a 36" or two 24s. You do need the storage.

Why?

- The space is small, and this layout is about as efficient as it's going to get.

- You really can't afford to give up space in your dining room, especially since you have a door in that room.

- Go with a round (or oval) table in this space. It's not large, and a round table will allow for better circulation.

- Agree with the above posters that if you remove the wall, you'll be losing necessary support. I suspect you also have water lines in this wall.

- No to a pass-through in this wall. The wall backs up to a cased opening, and it just isn't going to work.

- I agree with the poster above who says this layout is open, but not too open. It's kinda ideally open, in my opinion. You will be able to hear the TV or the kids in the living room, but guests won't be able to see the mess in your sink.

Does the house exist yet? If not, I have a couple other small thoughts:

- I'd rather see the garage door open into the foyer. This would give you convenient access to the closet by the front door, and it would allow you to place a pretty table or storage cabinet where the current garage door is shown.

- Get rid of those winder stairs; they're dangerous. In the same space /for the same money you can avoid the pie-shaped steps.