Tilts tent/pop up 3 month after installed vinyl planks over tile

3 years ago

last modified: 3 years ago

Basic summary (TL;DR)

3 Months after installing vinyl plank flooring over tile, the vinyl floor suddenly buckled up 1/2." The floor installer cut open the vinyl and found that the tiles underneath has shifted and tented.

Any idea what caused this to happen? The same issue popped up 2 feet away. How should I fix this next issue so I won't have another popped up tile?

Expanded scenario with details

I am the original owner of a Los Angeles area house built in 1989 (mild year-round temp, low humidity). We installed tile (ceramic or porcelain? Not sure). Each tile is about 12" by 12" with 1/4" grout. We have never had a tile come loose or "tenting" up. December of 2020 we installed vinyl plank flooring over the tile. See the photos of the detail of the vinyl boards we used. They are the click lock type with 1/16" foam backing. The installers just put the board directly on top of the tile, no glue or additional foam pads.

3 months later in March the vinyl floor suddenly buckled up 1/2." The floor installer cut open the vinyl and found that the tiles underneath has shifted and tented.

He has since glued down the tile and replaced the vinyl floor. It is now 2 weeks later and now I'm noticing the adjacent area 2 feet away starting to buckle up.

This area is in a hallway next to the washing machine. Before the vinyl flooring, we have had a few instance where the machine has leaked in the past, but we always wipe up within the hour. There has been no leaks since we installed the vinyl (new washing machine).

I'm very certain the same situation is happening. I've never really understood the root cause of the first tile buckling. My concern is that still will happen again at any part of the 800 sqft of tile we have. The concrete underneath is ok, no cracks of raised edges.

Here are my questions

Any idea what caused this to happen? Recall we have had this tile for 30 year and never had a loose tile
How should I fix this next issue so I wont have another popped up tile? This new tent area is 2 feet from the original tent area so I'm wondering if the issue just propagated down

Featured Answer

millworkman

3 years ago

More than likely trapped the moisture with the vinyl. I see no prep work on the tile (filling all grout joints and leveling) so this in my opinion was probably doomed from step one. The fix is to remove it all, tear out all the tile, prep the concrete and install a moisture barrier and then the floor.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (9)

Han John Tse
Original Author
3 years ago
Thanks for the feedback, definitely wish I knew before installing over tile
Related Professionals
Henderson Kitchen & Bathroom Designers · Rolling Hills Estates Kitchen & Bathroom Remodelers · Mountain Top Kitchen & Bathroom Remodelers · Normal Kitchen & Bathroom Remodelers · Mooresville Kitchen & Bathroom Remodelers · Abington General Contractors · Arkansas City General Contractors · Moses Lake Flooring Contractors · Oxford Flooring Contractors · Palm Springs Flooring Contractors · DeKalb General Contractors · Montclair General Contractors · Red Wing General Contractors · Statesboro General Contractors · Toledo General Contractors
PRO
Charles Ross Homes
3 years ago
Have you read the manufacturer's installation instructions? Did your installer?
Han John Tse
Original Author
3 years ago
I didnt read the installation, I didnt even see the boxes. I just hired the person to do it. I trusted the installer (I thought that them having 10 years of experience was safe to give them benefit of the doubt that they know what they are doing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
PRO
Ripped Jeans Construction
3 years ago
Sorry to hear this. Most LVP with attached foam is spec'ed for direct install over tile, so I don't think your installer is necessarily at fault, though I certainly would have explored the problem a little further than just gluing the tile back down.

I would agree with @millworkman: it's moisture that caused the problem, combined with a poor tile installation. Some ceramic tiles are very absorbent and will expand as they absorb moisture from the slab. This wasn't a problem when your tile was exposed and was able to release the moisture into the air, but when you put the new flooring on top, it trapped the moisture, and the ceramic kept absorbing and expanding. The tile was poorly bonded enough, that it popped.

:(
millworkman
3 years ago
"Most LVP with attached foam is spec'ed for direct install over tile"

It is? Please show where it says that as from what I know it is not.
PRO
Ripped Jeans Construction
3 years ago
@millworkman

Admittedly, I probably shouldn't make such a blanket statement. More like "most of the LVP I've worked with" or something like that :) Here are the first two I looked up:

https://images.homedepot-static.com/catalog/pdfImages/5f/5f5c2498-553d-4023-ab50-d1929a74c500.pdf

Shaw LVP: "This product can be installed over existing ceramic/porcelain tile products with up to a 1/4 inch wide grout joint. If the grout joint width exceeds 1/4 inch, a cementitious patching compound should be used to fill the grout joint to make it smooth with the surface of the tile."
millworkman
3 years ago
Still don't buy the fact that this will work You more than likely will get a reaction between the floor finish and the vinyl. The grout lines will telegraph thru in short order as vinyl will seek its only level to some extent even at 1/4" or less. When these things do happen I guarantee they will find another excuse to not warranty their product and Shaw is notorious for this as are most flooring companies.
SJ McCarthy
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
I'm very sorry for the OP. This is the FIRST TIME, that I've seen, the manufacture's 'allowed' installation has been directly contradicted by a situational install over tile.

That is to say, this is the first time I've seen/heard this happen. This is a MIGHTY day in the flooring world (sorry OP....I really wish this had not happened to you...I really do)! This is the day we, as upstanding floor pros can POINT TO and say, "See here! This is what CAN HAPPEN if you go DIRECTLY OVER TILE with vinyl! Do the right thing and remove the tile!"

OP...again I'm so sorry this has happened. I can't tell you how much my heart breaks for you.

Your installer did everything properly (assuming this is the only issue). Vinyl products state these floors can go directly over tiles so long as the tiles are well bonded to the substrate (yours were...so all good there).

Sadly, the only option now = Remove the vinyl (be prepared to lose 25% of the planks due to edge breakage), remove the tile, lay $0.13/sf vapour barrier and install vinyl once more.

I'm so sorry....but this is the only thing you have left. Sadly, you will have to pay for the vinyl removal, the tile removal, the vinyl installation and pay for more product because of loss to breakage.