Forget this. Just refinish your existing oak floors. In natural, with no stain. They’ll far outlast that arsenic powdered death look. They are a far more timeless choice.

Worst idea ever. You’d have to rip up those beautiful old oak floors to put down modern engineered. After redoing the subfloor.

You don’t get rid of classics like that until they are worn out completely and you must. It’s a useless expense.

Apreciate kind words towards old floor. It is indeed lovely but we don't like the look. :-) additionally, we are remodeling kitchen and bringing walls down so i had to deal with old floor either way.

Questiion is: If I don't demo the old floor, how to best install the new one on top of it?

Wood expands and contracts. If you glue on top of it, it cant expand and contract, and you will end up with a bubbled mess, and neither floor will be any good. If you just have to have the stuff like you put upstairs, then, remove it all, and do it right. Personally, I would leave it, and have new woven in where you are removing walls etc, and have it refinished. Others may go over the top, but, they are most likely doing a floating type floor, and even then could have problems before long.

OK...so here's what you want to do *IF you want to leave the old wood (not recommended ...ever...but it is your house and your bank account) and GLUE DOWN the new one:

1. Sand down the OLD WOOD...yep...all that dust you were trying to avoid is GOING TO HAPPEN!

1.a. Why? Because GLUE is NEVER ALLOWED over an old poly...one man's adhesive is another man's solvent. That's the very basics of chemistry. I'm not talking world-changing chemical formulas...I'm talking grade 11 Chemistry...

2. Remove banisters, floor trim, everything...possibly most doors.

3. Remove kitchen and the kitchen floor and RAISE it to the height of the old wood floor.

4. Install kitchen and then add flooring.

5. Pay $200 - $400/tread for the STAIRS to be brought up to code (not kidding AT ALL)

6. Pay $20/sf for the flooring job + extra cost of the stairs.

You are looking at $20/sf flooring job here. I'm not kidding. The cost of the floor is roughly 1/3 the cost of THIS type of job. And you STILL have to sand down that old floor...glue cannot sit on poly. Not unless you want this thing to pop up like Mexican Jumping Beans.

Now compare that to a TRADITIONAL sand/refinish + adding MORE wood to the kitchen.

The 'adding more wood' is SUPER easy with your flooring. I cannot stress ENOUGH how 'easy' this is. Your flooring is narrow strip oak (red or white..hard to tell) which costs $4-$5/sf to source. Super easy.

Adding in the wood (lacing it in) $4-$5/sf for labour...kitchen is a small space so it will add $1000 to the total...that's IT. The sand/finish is going to cost $5-$7/sf...depending on the colour and finish ($60/gallon orange-all-over-oil-based-poly vs. top of the line 2Part water based poly)

Now Here's how this breaks down.

$5-$7/sf TOTAL cost for sand/refinish (the entire cost of all floors being made the same colour/finish)

$4-$5/sf oak purchase for (assuming) 200sf - 300sf of kitchen

$4-$5/sf of labour to install/lace in that 200 - 300sf of kitchen.

That will bring up the TOTAL price to around $8-$9/sf for the ENTIRE FLOORING JOB....and you do NOT need to upgrade the stairs (stairs are a beast...they can add $5,000+ to a job).

Now compare that to the $20/sf job you are thinking of doing.

It's your call.

Dumb question from a non-pro:

Is it feasible to put down a thin plywood on top of the old floor and glue the new floor to that? i.e. an underlayment like you use with tile or vinyl plank. That way the new floor is not glued to the old floor and if someone wants to remove the new floor after awhile, the original is still underneath. No stripping of finish required either. Question is whether engineered wood flooring can be glued to an underlayment.

A very *thin* layer could probably be placed, yes. But, plywood is now very expensive and that would add about 3-4K.

How about cork, significantly cheaper. Could applying 1/4 inch of cork help? It's cheaper, easier to glue down to, doesn't ruin old floor. Can anybody who understands comment?

These people are understanding. SJ McCarthy is considered to be an expert on wood floors. I think its more like you are not understanding, or not listening.

"How about cork, significantly cheaper. Could applying 1/4 inch of cork help? It's cheaper, easier to glue down to, doesn't ruin old floor. Can anybody who understands comment?"

NO, it will be ruined and make just as much of a mess. No means no, you cannot put anything over it effectively.

Putting nothing is always easier and cheaper! :-) I have seen some folks recommend the addition of a very thin layer of plywood, particularly if wanting to lay the new floor in the same direction as the old floor.

Seems like you had the answer you wanted to hear before making your post. Carry out your plan and report back.

Hello @HO-UZZ812 -- I didn't bore you with all the background you could have had to judge me less. In all honesty, it's my contractor who wants to take on this quick and dirty approach of installing on top. the signed contract that I have with him, says he would demolish all floor thorought the house, level, repair the subfloor, etc.

he has since flipped completely and said: removing the old is a terrible idea as it will weaken your subloor / foundation. oh, and BTW, plywood prices have gone up 3X the last year and that material is your responsibility. even though as per the contract "customer was only to provide actual floor".

bottom line? i too would love to do it the cleanest possible way but this (dishonest) contractor wants to put all the burden of the additional cost on me when I have already paid him a mini-fortune for other work.

additionally, two floor specialists have both said: In california, with such dry climate, it's totally fine to install on top. your existing floor is in beautiful condition. you don't need to worry. My neighbor too got it done this way and has had no trouble whatsoever.

one has to weigh in PROS and CONS. Costs and benefits. It's very easy to suggest BEST possible approach when you are spending someone else's money.

between us friends, i much rather throw an extra 4K into a nicer kitchen counter than into a cleaner subfloor. I bet the most reasonable ones in this thread would agree.

thanks everyone for your opinion. i felt like $hit before and I feel worse and more confused now. if you would all start a GoFundMe I will go with the cleaner approach.

About the 'cork', I can answer that. I'm actually a cork flooring expert. So...here we go.

You cannot glue down cork underlay to 'finished' hardwood. Again, the glue has issues with the finish. So once again you are looking at a sand/refinish.

Now the floors are sanded you can glue either the new hardwood down or you can glue cork down. The cork gives it NO stability (not like plywood). You would still have to run the new wood perpendicular (the other way) to the current floor.

The glue you need will have to be a water based product. You will need DOUBLE the amount of product. You need to glue the cork (it will get SOAKING WET...that's OK...it will dry/harden in a FEW DAYS). You wait until the cork is dry and then you glue the hardwood, in the opposite direction, to the cork.

It won't give you the 'plywood option' of keeping the same direction of the old hardwood. The glue will 'almost' ruin the old wood. I've seen people try to 'scrape up' glued cork underlay. It takes days and days and then you have crumbled cork everywhere. And the sanding down of the old wood = huge effort because of the glued crumbs and the sheet of glue on the wood. Horrible. Just horrible.

I can see this is upsetting you and I'm sorry. What I HIGHLY recommend is you GET OUT of the 'floor part' of the contract. See if you can do the flooring using someone other than this guy. This person is using the ol' Contractor as flooring dude routine.

If you believe you are 'being had' you can see if there is a way to nullify the remaining contract (the stuff you haven't paid for). Then you can find a real pro to do the flooring. The way out of this = having a clause added that states, "All flooring to be installed to NWFA Handbook, Best Practices and to MANUFACTURER'S requirements per the installation instructions."

As soon as a 'flooring hack' takes one look at your requirements and they will run for the hills (at least for the flooring part).

You can always find comfort and direction from a local NWFA (National Wood Flooring Association) Certified Wood Flooring Installer/Refinisher. The amount you will SAVE by having your floors REFINISHED will be worth the extra cost you will pay to have an NWFA Pro on the job.

www.nwfa.org

They are extremely good. And I bet dollars to doughnuts they have heard of 'your guy' and his/her ugly fixes.

Hi there what did you do at the end? did you install on top of the old hardwood floor? I'm in the same boat at the moment and would like to install on top of white oak. Let me know what worked and what did not for you? Thank you,

@Blaze Zarev - We ended up installing on top of floor. Installer put nails on those areas in which the floor was creeking before. It's only been a couple of months but so far all is excellent and I am hoping it will stand the test of time. I think the floor purists that volunteered so many opinions above may have more to add. So far, so good and fingers crossed.

Thank you for your quick response. Did you nail, glue or float?

I think i will do the same I have been thinking and researching for some time an I want to use the floor as insulation also. I Have 12-16 feet high sealing so I have no height to loose.

We glued. A bit of nailing where the old floor was creeking but glued all around. I am kind of glad we didn't go with the very messy alternative... which my contractor had agreed to....

Hi I am in same dilemma. did you glue opposite direction? Or lay plywood then glue. Sigh...

"Complete flustercluck"?? I don't think you know enough to be certain of anything. Show me proof if you!

@Heavens Angel .- It's been a bit over a year and all is perfect. Creeks from original floor are gone. We applied new floor on top of old floor. In the same directionn. No plywood or anything in between. Just glue and nails where necessary. I figured that the occassional creek would bother me less than the "inorganic direction". I have a feeling we will be just all right. Good luck!

1. Weave in 100-120 new oak to total 350 old oak & stain.keep old moldings & height. Great price.

Told it will never match.

2. Install high quality 5/8 or 3/4 engineered ( too high😞) with 1/4 plywood. Keep moldings(noone thinks should be removed -old plaster walls.) What about door moldings too. Do they cut? 6000 or more 350 feet😱 seems a lot to spend on old house patch job versus rip out. New floor & moldings. Sigh....

@Candri Brizu I stumbled across your post as I'm about to embark on a similar flooring journey. We've received $$$$ quotes to redo flooring including full dust, "dustless" and most recently laying engineered hardwood over our existing slab+engineered hardwood. The latter was by far the most reasonable and enticing given the install speed and amount of dust (or lack there of) it would generate in our home with small children.

I was disappointed to read some of the above comments, and the elitist tone they took towards your genuine search for knowledge. I realize there's a "right" way to do things but multiple quotes have shown this option to be cost prohibitive for us (like 3-4x the price) and I'm open to exploring this "quick and dirty" option. Just so glad you said this because I feel the exact same way: "one has to weigh in PROS and CONS. Costs and benefits. It's very easy to suggest BEST possible approach when you are spending someone else's money."

Are you floors still holding up okay?

Yep, my floors have been installed for about 2 years; absolutely no problems whatsoever --yet. I put cork on the second floor and nothing on the ground floor. Installed on same direction as old floor. All feels and looks perfect. No drama to report for all the dear "floor purists" that left their well meaning and well informed opionions above.

Came across this thread and hope I can get some advice. I’m dealing with a situation like Kay L - dated engineered hardwood that is glued on the slab in the downstairs living areas. We would like to have all the downstairs flooring the same (except for bathroom). We also want new matching floor on stairs and second level, like Candri. My husband wants to diy the downstairs with floating engineered hardwood on top as he thinks this option eliminates the problem of potential moisture/mold issues from a glued EH floor or waterproof LVP (my preference). I am super hesitant to undertake this project.
#1 The cost of covering up all that perfectly beautiful, albeit dated, wood.
#2 Floating floors sound hollow when you walk on them.
#3 Covering the tile kitchen floor with wood increases risk of water damage, which is why I would prefer LVP. (We had a busted pipe in the bathroom 11 years ago that ruined carpet and led us to installing our current floor.)

We haven’t considered gluing down new EH over the existing glued down EH. I read somewhere that glue over the finished wood can cause problems. Not sure if nailing is an option since the base is concrete.
There is NO WAY we will take up the current glued EH. We’ve seen YouTube videos, and trying to get up 900 sq ft of glued down EH would take forever and create more mess than I want to deal with.
Any thoughts???