I don't know if there's any specific etiquette for approaching them with this proposal. How well do you know them? I'd suggest paying them a visit and simply let them know what you're thinking and ask them if they are willing to sell you a couple of acres. I have no idea what the costs would be, but I can't imagine it being that expensive.

Where I live, strangers just look up our phone # online and text us offers. If you know them, give them a phone call. If you don't know them, send them a letter.

In my opinion, it is difficult to answer these types of questions. There is likely a correct answer, but there is no way for anyone here, and possibly not even anyone there, to know what it is. When I want a property for development, I will go through an attorney. He will send a letter with an offer on the property but these offers tend to be lucrative for the sellers.

In the situation you describe, it can be tough to get the offer high enough to make it worth their while. Most people will be reluctant to split off parcels of their land for a few thousand dollars even though they are not using it. The money often just isn't enough to motivate them.

Have you considered leasing the property from them? This is often much cheaper than buying the land as they still own it, often leases on land like this will just be agreements to maintain it. Then in the future make the offer to buy it, this gets them accustomed to not thinking of the land as their own and then making it official later.

ETA: Almost every ag extension office (and like a thousand places on the internet) is going to have a template for grazing rights or pasture lease agreements. It is something you can likely do without an attorney and if you need an attorney it should be relatively inexpensive as these are fairly standard.

Bry has some good points. I too live in a rural area with lots of undeveloped and seemingly neglected and ignored land.

BUT the land is seldom for sale. Why? Lots of reasons: don’t need the money, tax implications, it’s been in the family for X generations, I’m going to do X and X on the land someday, I promised it to my son, I don’t want anyone any closer to me. Usually, around here: it’s mine and you can’t have it. Period.

All you can do is ask.

There is no reason you can't ask them etiquette wise. They may well say no and that could be about a lot of things. If you buy it--then sell your agreement with them is no longer valid. That would be enough reason for them to say no. After they sell it they have no control over what a future owner may choose to do with it. All property whether it is obvious or not is plotted by a town or a county. Depending on where you live they may not have the ability to make their lot smaller. We looked at building a home and all the lots has to be so many acres. You might want to consider discussing with them permission to use to to graze, and let them retain ownership.

To answer a few questions: we have never met the neighbors, although I believe our next door neighbor who we are very friendly with has met them.

Our concern with leasing the land is that there are a lot of expenses involved to set up the pasture. We would need to build a fence, convert the land, etc. Any lease would need to be for an extended period of time to justify the expense. Buying it outright would be preferable to us though I suppose the right lease could work.

It sounds like nobody has a opinion as to what's best, so far I've heard visiting, texting, and mail. I was thinking of doing a phone call myself. Perhaps visiting in person might be better? Or that might be over the top.

If their land value divided by their acreage is 25k per acre, anyone have an idea of what they think a good offer would be? 30k? 50k?

I totally understand reservations about not wanting to break up one's property. I am hoping 'free money' for unused, unseen land trumps that.

I just wanted to point out that so long as a restriction is legal, a seller of land can place use restrictions or obligations that bind future parties. It is called a covenant running with the land and must be recorded so thst it shows up if someone does a title search.

Easements are a common one and in the past covenants were also sometimes used for horrible purposes such as preventing sales to Jews or POC. Those types of covenants aren’t enforceable of course anymore but were until relatively recently. Land is often sold with a covenant that requires it to be kept undeveloped for example especially when the sales price reflects that kind of restriction.

Before you approach them, look up on sites like Zillow or Redfin what land sells for per acre in your geography, so you can get a pretty good idea of what you might be in for, cost-wise. I doubt your neighbor would consider selling at less than the going rate, so if the going rate is more than you want to spend, then there's no point to even asking.

But if that number is one you can handle, then bring your comps (reports of recent land sales in your area) to your neighbor and simply ask. "Hi Joe! We wondered if you might consider selling us X acres of land at $X per acre." Then negotiate from there.

You'd probably also have to do some investigation into having the property lines changes at your local government which may also include fees, not to mention getting either lawyers or title companies involved to create the official paperwork.

Jinx, you make some good points about using a letter to contact them. It's probably worth noting that the land in question is thoroughly property locked and not near any roads. That is, we wouldn't be able to really develop on it even if we wanted to. It would be far more likely this neighbor would sell their 12 acres to a developer and put condos behind us than vice versa. I absolutely agree most people won't want to split up the property, my hopes hinge on them desiring a cash influx more than they want the land. We'd be willing to sign pretty much any use covenant they wanted in regards to this property remaining pasture.

Again, one of the problems with these discussions is that there are wrong answers and no one knows what they are.

For example, I disregard any offer to purchase any of my properties that doesn't include an amount. So if you write me a letter, an email, or call me, then you better have a number or I am just going to write you off as wasting my time. If you knock on my door, then I might entertain a conversation with you about my willingness to sell, but that isn't without problems also as you are then letting me invent the number and my willingness or hesitation is going to be based on what I believe you are willing to pay without any indication of what you are really willing to pay.

If I wanted land that is not for sale, I would offer 1.5 times the market rate. That is a number that will generally motivate people past the point of indifference, but also weed out people who are going to waste my time asking for a mint. But I am also not grazing livestock on the land.

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Grazing rights have a date range set by the parties and it is usually quite long (ten years is the standard and fifty years is not unheard of). These are just encumbrances or easements on the property and transfer intact to new owners if the property is sold. If they wanted to terminate the lease they would have to negotiate to buy it out. So capital investments in the property are usually somewhat protected.

Solid advice @bry911, because you're right, I would naturally just want to suss out if they're even interested before I offer a number, in part because I'm open to various acreage dependent on price. But it's probably better for me to give a specific offer rather than a nebulous one and then negotiate from there on price and acreage if required.

We have some money set aside for this idea because we've been planning it for a while. But offer too much and it's impossible to justify on our side, spend too little and they'll never accept. As it is we know it's not exactly a 'money making' decision on our part (it will take us forever to make our money back) but more an investment in our own property to be able to do what we want. (It also would protect our property a from them ever selling and developing their own land).

It's your adjacent neighbor. Can you start out by stopping by his/her business, introducing yourself as a neighbor and begin getting to know them without making the first contact about a business transaction? It's good practice to know our neighbors anyway and as you conversationally exchange information, it's perfectly natural to find out how long they've lived there, how they use the property, etc. which may give you better context for framing an offer later on.

We get calls and letters which go into the trash. If someone I personally knew contacted me, I would at least give them the courtesy of listening.

Perhaps look into a grazing lease with the option to purchase in the future. How old are they and do they have children? Are there future heirs in the picture that might weigh in and nix the deal? In some cases heirs are happy to have the cash and have no desire to take on the property. You can probably learn a little bit more about them from the other neighbor and from a few dives into Google. I do have to say, the worst mistake made here was selling 1/4 acre to someone; I won't go into details, but a lot of heartbreak happened over that tiny bit of land.

If I received your phone call, if I answered even, I’d politely decline as quickly as possible. If I received your letter, I’d skim it and toss it. If an attorney contacted me I’d think scam. But if a mutual friend asked us all to meet for coffee and cake and to discuss the possibility I’d at least listen. If they say no not interested at any point then accept that as their final answer, even if it’s the first thing they say. You’ve planted the seed in their head and maybe it would just need time to germinate before they think about it seriously.

I guess we've determined that we're not the ones to ask: ) Throw a " neighborhood" party and ask everyone near.....

At least you'll have MET. Perhaps.

We get inquiries about our land all the time. Sometimes they're from realtors, sometimes from developers. Sometimes email or letters in the mail, sometimes phone calls. We usually throw away the letters, but will take a phone call just to get an idea of the market and what the going price is. If it were a neighbor we'd probably have a conversation to be polite, but unless we were willing to sell, we wouldn't spend much time chatting. As long as you're polite and considerate, your neighbors will probably respond in kind.

We just sold part of our land to our neighbor since it was "L" shaped and behind their house. They approached us and asked if we would be interested in selling IF it was possible and we said we would let them know once we had talked to township. No use going through all the trouble of talking sale when it may not be possible in the first place. Once we found out it was we talked with the neighbor and said yes we were interested HOWEVER we wanted a written legal offer and we would not pay anything out of pocket except for an appraisal to see its value and we would sell it to them for fair market value but they would have to cover all other expenses. They agreed. We then proceeded to get an appraisal which was $500. This was done for two reasons. It gave us a true value at that time and it would either interest them or let them walk away but it was to protect our interests as property values in our area were very high. Once the price was agreed upon a formal real-estate offer was in place and the sale proceeded. It took almost a year to complete but that is normal in this area. Hope my experience helped.

I personally would not advise meeting the neighbor socially in order to buy their land. That would annoy me and most people I know. If you haven't made social contact with your neighbors already, then don't make social contact in order to buy their land.

Nor would I send them a letter noting that you want to meet them and you have a business proposition for them. I have a small wood working Etsy shop and I get several "business propositions" each month, most of which are just someone wanting to add little value and soak up a lot of my profit.

I really don't know the best method (a.k.a. least annoying) to contact your neighbor and suspect no one here does. However, regardless of contact method, I strongly suspect the best way to get the deal done is full and honest disclosure. Tell the neighbor who you are, why you are interested in the property, explain you are willing to pay above market value but can't afford to make them rich, etc. Basically, say much of what you have said here to your neighbor. I can't guarantee it will work, but I would bet it has a higher success chance than any circumspect communication.

Good luck

ETA: I realize this is a bit contrary to my earlier advice, which was be be ready with a number... I have revised that opinion. I think simply noting that you are willing to pay above market value will suffice and has fewer risks.

My approach would be to send a letter, only because you never met them. They could be thrilled or not interested, but either way it’s not awkward. I would not go into any detail and just mention if interested, you BOTH could take some time to look into further and be in touch.

Assuming your neighbors are owners and not tenants, you have left out an important part of your plan. Engineering. It has to happen and it costs to have it done. So, add that into your budget.

Have you looked at their plot plan? Are there any restrictions already in place? Would conservation be involved? Go to your town office and take a look.

Years ago we subdivided 5 acres of property. The process was much more involved than what you are proposing, but we hit a temporary road block because in a back corner there was "wetland", which we didn't know about, but the stumbling block was when Conservation came out to view the wetland, they found ladyslippers. No kidding! The entire engineering had to be reworked because ladyslippers are protected.

Then there are abutting neighbors to the land. They will be informed by the town of your plan. If one has an objection for some reason, you're out of luck.

So, check on the obvious first. If everything looks okay, then write to your neighbor to see if he/she is interested. Give them a list of what you would be responsible for cost wise; you can't make an offer until you know what you are buying.

Forgot to mention the lawyer fees. It becomes a real estate purchase and it has to be registered at your county courthouse and the town will then add the assessment of your purchase to your tax bill.

We had a neighbor approach us to ask if we would be agreeable to sell him a portion of our land in order to give him room for a new Title 5 he would need in order to sell his home in the near future, We knew him and liked him, so no problem there. But, he had done his homework and his request included what the transfer would mean to us. Turns out it meant a lot to us. His offer to buy was so generous we split the legal and engineering fees. He got his land for the Title 5 and we got his frontage, giving us a perfect building lot...value to us $500,000,00 (water front).

If they are mowing it once a year, that would imply they are actively holding the land. Don't sound like they are developing, but holding the area open for the future. I say this as someone that has acres out back that we keep trails mowed open a couple times a year and a small medow mowed once a year. Some of the areas aren't meant for anything at this time, but rather mowed once or twice a year to prevent nature from closing the area or access up.

Our property was split before we bought it. We bought the house, then later was abe to buy the back property that had been split off. Then was abe to buy a property-locked chunk butting our back property. We were approached both times by the sellers. I would suggest you retain a lawyer for a consult before approaching the neighbor. They can help guide you with how a property gets split and how/where it gets filed, any easements or conditions of your area, and other legal accomidations. Once you have a good idea and a good offer, then you can approach the neighbors. I wouldn't approach them with just a notion that you might like to buy, I would approach with a solid offer.

Just want to second bry911's advice. Initiating a social event of any kind as a bridge to a business proposition is somewhere between annoying and creepy, and is likely to tank your prospects. However you decide to approach them, be up front and direct about your intent from the start.

I agree not to invite them to anything. They'll feel like the only reason you invited them was to get their land. I would just drop a letter off in their mailbox stating you might be interested in buying property and give them contact info if they want to talk about it. If you get no response, they're not interested.

Maybe if the house goes on the market, you could buy it, carve out the land you want and sell the rest. Losing a few acres doesn't always lead to a marked drop in value. Many buyers might feel 8 acres and 10 acres doesn't make much difference if all they want is a big yard.

I've been involved with a few of these transactions. Before you go any further you need to know if there are any encumbrances on the land, meaning is there a mortgage on the property or is it part of a tax abatement land or agricultural tax abatement program.

If either is the case, you will have a devil of a time getting a lender to agree to portion off a piece. If yes, do not pass go and do not collect $200. You can find out by going to the courthouse and looking up any liens on the property. The clerk will help you do this if it's a small county.

If the answer is no, there are no liens, you have a chance.

Next, you need to determine the cost of unimproved lots and land in your area. A realtor can obtain this information for you for a small fee. Many will do it for the goodwill alone but are not obligated to do so. As an appraiser, I will tell you that comparable sales will be few and far between and the best guess is a wild guess. No need to pay for an appraiser to give you a valuation range.

Now you are ready to approach the owner. You are armed with the valuation information and have a general idea of what you are willing to pay. You will need to be prepared to pay for a survey reflecting the new boundaries and the cost of a closing attorney to handle the sale and transfer. You will bear the cost of clearing and fencing, too.

At this point, you can approach the owner. Honey always gets more than vinegar. Go by, introduce yourself, tell them what you are thinking and ask them to consider the idea. Don't expect an immediate answer. Don't bind yourself to a price either. Just tell them that you are serious and would like to purchase x amount of land. This may take some time and multiple visits and letters. It's harder to say no to someone you know than a total stranger. You may want to ask your mutual neighbor for a read on the situation.

Good luck. In my case a second neighbor interjected themself into the conversation and wanted to buy the parcel I wanted. Now it's become beyond complicated. I walked away. I don't get into bidding wars. It wasn't that important to me. Only you can decide for yourself how much trouble it's worth.

How do you feel about running it by your neighbor that you are very friendly with. They might have some insight.

I live in a small town surrounded by rural area in the midwest. Around here it's common to wave at strangers. So if I were in your situation, I wouldn't do any homework or come up with an offer or write a letter, I'd walk back to their place (or drive if it's really far), knock on their door, and introduce myself as their neighbor. Then "we've got some livestock, and I was just talking the other day with my spouse about how it would be useful to have some additional pasture for them. I was wondering if you'd consider selling or leasing us an acre or two for that purpose." Keep the tone very preliminary, like you just got the idea.

Then let them respond. If it's an immediate no, then you're done. And since you were vague and preliminary, it won't be awkward. Just "no problem, thought I'd ask. If you change your mind down the road, let me know."

If they start asking questions about price or use, or whatever, then say "I haven't even gotten that far, as I didn't know if you'd consider it. And I'm not sure what it would entail to parcel off a chunk of land. But if you would, then let me do some research on values and come back with a proposal."

Let them express their concerns, needs, limits, whatever, and you can incorporate that into your proposal. And then do some prep work: contact a local real estate attorney to figure out all the potential pitfalls that some outlined above, so you know what work it will entail. Then set up a second meeting, say "here's what I found for comps, so that would mean $X. And we'd need to do A, B, and C before we closed." or whatever. It's a working meeting, you're sharing what you learned about how to do the process, and you come across as down-to-earth and reasonable, not a city-slicker scammer.

You can just “buy” a couple acres of a neighbors property. The whole property probably needs to be subdivided, new parcels recorded, liens paid off, mortgages refinanced, with all the associated costs and fees. If the neighbor has a mortgage with a balance of $200,000 on a piece of property with a 2000 sf house on 12 acres, the property secures the mortgage, and the owner can’t just sell off some of it.

CAN’T just buy. 🙄🙄

Most U.S. mortgages are fairly standard because of the pressure that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac put on the mortgage market. Any time after 1 year you can apply for a partial release to sell a portion of the property. These are pretty standard and typically granted.

If you lack equity the mortgage holder will ask for a principal reduction payment, but if you have sufficient equity it will not be required, if you have enough equity you will not even be required to get an appraisal.

There is typically a small fee for a partial lien release (around $250 - $400) and you will have additional fees for recording and for an appraisal if required.

So many great (and varied) responses. Can't possibly reply to all, but thanks for them all even when they directly conflict with each other - absolutely understandable in this case.

Some more info - the property Google's up as a business, though I am guessing the people actually live there as well. My neighbor has definitely met them, and I know he would support the idea as we've discussed how cool it would be for both of us to do this, though he's not in the financial situation to move on it.

The lots in this area are all zoned for agricultural use. It's my understanding it's pretty easy to split lots and basically do what you want though that's hearsay and I haven't researched myself.

I really like @weedyacres advice in that it definitely matches my own personality. The only issue is I would potentially be walking into a manufacturing business rather than knocking on someone's residential door.

To @homechef59 and @elcieg and @beesneeds and a few others... The area is essentially blackberry bramble currently and zoned for agriculture. So my hope would be no real snags in terms of protected species, etc. That it's cut down once a year does indicate the neighbor cares about it at least somewhat, but them having less maintenance could also work in our favor.. maybe?

Their lot is very odd, though many around here are. It almost looks like they may have sold land before because they are on a piece of land shaped like a P (not a normal flag lot though, the stem is decently wide). The area chopped out of the rectangle has six houses built in it (they have 13 neighbors!). Another lot is slightly chopped out elsewhere and might be a residential they use. so there's a chance they sold and developed that before. I have no idea if that works in our favor.

It sounds like I should contact an expert, and see what they have to say. I'll also ask my neighbor about it again since I know they know each other to some degree.

As with all things I think it comes down to money. If we can make the right offer it might happen. I was mostly looking for tips to avoid burning the opportunity before I even started by making some fundamental mistake. It sounds like there's no fixed opinion on the best way to proceed, but there's a ton of fantastic advice and personal experience throughout this thread, thank you all.

Here's hoping we are able to make this happen.

Last comment-if the property is mortgaged you will need the lender to approve the severance since they have a stake in its value.

My advice wouldn't change if it's more business than residential. That probably makes it easier, since they expect strangers to visit on occasion. In fact, I own a manufacturing business and just this week, a building down the street that's been vacant for a while had a couple cars parked out front, and a truck at the loading dock. So I pulled in, walked through the front door, and since the offices were vacant, went to the warehouse space where a guy on a forklift was unloading pallets. I flagged him down, introduced myself as a business neighbor and inquired who was moving in. He gave me the scoop, and I invited him to my place for a tour when he had a few minutes.

Note that I didn't "barge in," when the guy came over I was deferential and said "sorry for just walking in here, but my place is down the street and I just wanted to meet our new neighbors."

I'm not even a big extrovert or anything, and I would totally feel comfortable doing what I recommended above. Again, keep the first conversation casual and no-pressure and it'll be fine. Even if they say no, they might show you around their facility and you'll make a new friend. Or at least acquaintance.

I have experience in this from a prior career, I did research on properties companies and utilities wanted to purchase.

Educating yourself on zoning and subdivision regulations is the first step. Either and possibly both may restrict the subdivision of land to minimum acreage. For example, we own a property that is four acres. Half of it would make a great building lot but we can't split it off because the township minimum lot size for subdivision is 5 acres.

A mortgage of the property could complicates things as the bank would need to issue a collateral release. Its easy to find recorded property mortgages at the county register of deeds.

Do your research before you make an offer and when you do, state your offering price, the costs you will cover and the estimated timeframe for closing.

Given very careful consideration to your offer price. Its more valuable to you than the current owner. If land is selling for $10,000 an acre, offer at least 1.5 to 2 times more. You aren't just increasing the amount of land you own, you are also increasing the value of the property.

Good luck!

When researching values of the small acreage only compare it to similar size acreage for comparison. Generally smaller parcels such as 1-2 acres are not the same per acre price as a parcel that 7-15 acres, or one that is 15-25 acres. The prices tend to drop as you go up in the acreage size. So to consider what it might end up costing you look only at what 1-2 acre parcels with no utilities in your area is selling for. The no utilities is because I'm assuming there are no electricity or water to the piece you want to buy. If there are then you'll need to look at comparable 1-2 acre with utilities.

@lyfia is spot on in advising to compare apples to apples. A family member wanted to buy a 5 acre parcel to build a house. They were dead set on $25,000 because $5,000 per acre is the "going rate" for large tracts of farm and vacant land in our area. The lot sold for $85,000, which was in line with comparable large building lots in the area.

Go talk to them . How the heck do we know anything about this transcttion. Where I live is surrounded by farm land that is being protected so no parcels sold off less than 10 acres .

So I just talked to another mutually connected neighbor, and learned something very interesting. Some years ago the owners tried to sub divide and build houses in the back of their lot (what I want) without doing any zoning or City planning, and someone reported them and it got nixed. In my neighbor's words, they wanted some 'quick cash' for the land.

However we're not planning on building housing, nor providing any sort of utilities or car access to the land. I would also go through proper channels so likely won't have the same issue. But the point is is that they seem willing to part with the land based on what I was just told.

@pennfire thank you for the advice. I will look into any sort of minimum lot sizes. I'm hoping there won't be very many regulations given the lot is not going to be developed and it's more of just moving fences. Our municipal government is very small and does not have too many restrictions in general, but you never know til you check.

@lyfia very interesting point about apples to apples comparisons. In my head, I was just dividing their lot by acreage to get a general price. But you are likely correct that the land is worth more than that due to the value of a small lot in this area. The only saving math in my direction is this lot would be completely landlocked by many other properties and I think it's unlikely they could develop there without selling the entire property. The lots around here are a ridiculous mishmash of shapes and sizes, I wish I could share a map just for the fun of it but I don't give out my address online.

Investigate at the recorders office, or using GIS, online, to determine if the property is one parcel, or many.

The best scenario: the property is actually multiple parcels, and one of the parcels is exactly, or close enough, to what you desire.

The worst scenario is you desiring a bit of one parcel, and a bit of another parcel. Surveyors, lawyers, and ordinances may be involved.

Some questions:

Is a flood plain involved?

Do you plan permanent structures?

Why not rent it?

Are easements involved, or may be involved?

A minimum size may not apply if you are adding to an existing parcel rather than creating a new lot. County policy might not permit creation of a new landlocked parcel, thus needing a recorded easement.

I would make the inquiries about how to do the paperwork before approaching the owner. Then, depending on your budget, you could offer to buy a larger portion, perhaps 5 acres, a smaller portion or rent the land.

I called our local surveying office. Seems like it should be an easy property line adjustment, he looked up our property and basically told me if we work something out it's an easy thing. (For those wondering, he estimated something like 750 to the planning /zoning, 500 to survey dept, another 2-8k to private surveyor. I suppose there would be legal fees to get a contract in place though I don't even know if we technically need that around here since we both need to sign the paperwork above.

So now it's just back to the main point of this thread, which is how to approach. Going to see our mutual neighbor who has met him tomorrow and move from

@Lyndee Lee I actually called county Friday and was told it should be a simple property line adjustment. I gave some details in the post above. He was very nice and actually suggested possible ways to draw the lines.

@Steve Bausch to answer your questions:

1) there are no floodplains involved

2) the only structures we may build would be shade sheds for livestock. The way I build them I don't even think they would considered permanent. The land is zone for agricultural and we can pretty much do what we want.

3). We hadnt considered leasing it but I suppose that would be an option. In theory like the idea of owning a better only because that protects us from them selling their property, etc and needing to deal with some future legal issue. Though maybe I'm wrong, I am not an expert on any of this.

4). As per the post above, I did talk to someone from the county. They looked at my property lines and I described where our current driveway is and they felt that would solve the easement issue (it's a direct shot, if our gravel driveway was extended it would hit the other property). He said there could be obviously be issues with planning and zoning but that from a cursory look he didn't think there would be.

Good luck with the acquisition!

I wouldn’t wait too long now to approach the property owner, since you’ve made your interest public.

I don’t know how small your community is, but in mine I would have immmediately contacted the property owner after I hung up the phone with the county official.

Glad it’s not too complicated!!