Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
donelle900

Front foundation shrub dilemma

donelle900
last year

Zone 4
Full( bright) shade- the porch blocks the sun all day
Max 4’ tall shrub

We originally purchased the house with an Annabelle foundation planting. This is located under a gutter and the Annabelle would flop onto the sidewalk without fail. We replaced with 6 arctic fire dogwood which have done very well in the location. The problem is, they grew 5+ feet, larger than expected, and now overwhelm the foundation and generally look untidy. I would like to replace them but am stuck between two directions.

  1. Panicle hydrangea- razzleberri. This is an ideal size hydrangea and has been bred for sturdy stems, which I believe would hold up under the gutters. This strip of foundation gets no direct sunlight so I understand blooming might be somewhat diminished. Would I be dooming myself to leggy, unattractive hydrangeas in this space?

  2. Cleotha- summersweet. The shade would be fine, and the pollinator boost is attractive, but other than blooming time I am not sure how attractive this shrub would be. I’m also not interested in doing much supplemental watering beyond the first year.

Help!

Comments (21)

  • Embothrium
    last year

    As you mentioned almost no foundation is visible. So you don't really need to plant a lot of shrubs in an attempt to obscure unattractive foundation walls. Also evergreen shrubs are best for this because otherwise the foundation becomes visible during winter. And since you are concerned about shrub heights maybe just continue primarily with herbaceous perennials like you have showing in the first picture. With shrubs only at corners.

  • donelle900
    Original Author
    last year

    Thank you, I suppose I called them “foundation plantings” in error, as you pointed out there isn’t really a foundation to hide. I continue to seek a row of shrubs, as that provides some vertical interest in zone 4 during the winters. I don’t love having the entire porch exposed for half of the year simply from an aesthetic standpoint. A yew or other evergreen is not the look I am going for at this point in time.

  • partim
    last year

    Are there any shrubs/plants that are native to your area, which you like? They would have the benefit of attracting butterflies/bees etc to your property.

  • decoenthusiaste
    last year

    My first step would be to dig out all the gravel; it is the worst of "mulches!!" My landscaping prof vouched for natural cypress mulch as a neutral background for plants, a great insect repellent and it degrades nicely into the soil eventually. No dyed or colored mulch, please!

  • Embothrium
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Unlike the solid and comparatively simple wall at the end where the foundation shows a little the deck and railings are too much of a feature themselves to function well as a backdrop for winter bare shrubs - it's never going to look good to have see through plants sticking up as it were in front of the red deck and the white railings with spaces between. Too busy and which are we supposed to look at, the shrubs or the architecture? Whereas herbaceous plants mostly of below deck height can be looked down at from above, as you have tended to do when taking the shots of the existing ones you have put up here. With the deck etc. and the plants being seen therefore in separation.

  • donelle900
    Original Author
    last year

    Thank you, Embothrium. You have given me a new design consideration that I clearly wasn’t aware of. I have been set on something with height for winter interest and had not thought of whether it would be busy or not.
    I’ll have to revisit alternative perennials that don’t necessarily present a winter silhouette.

  • jlouise54
    last year

    We are also Zone 4 with full shade on most of the front of our house. I have yew shrubs, Annabelle hydrangeas rhododendrons, and hosta. The nursery where I go told me that the Annabelle’s were probably the only hydrangea that would bloom well in the deep shade. I have never used the particular dogwood that you mentioned, nor have I ever used dogwood in shade. But I do have a number of dogwood in other places and one nice thing about them is that they can be pruned way back to keep them under control. Since you are starting somewhat with a blank slate, you may want to consider having a nursery or landscaper create a plan for the area.

  • Olychick
    last year

    Some of the red twig dogwoods do very well being pruned...in fact the red bark appears on new growth, so if they are pruned heavily, they will be more vibrant and kept in check for size.

  • Embothrium
    last year

    Cutting down of "twig" dogwoods is best done at multiyear intervals or only part of the stems at one time because otherwise they may be slow to come back well afterward.

  • Yvonne Martin
    last year

    I was about to make the same comment as Olychick. Indeed, heavy pruning will keep those dogwoods in shape and may encourage more shoots, plus they will be a nice red for winter interest. You could also consider clumps of Prarie Dropseed, a grass that is about a foot tall. You might get inspiration from the Prairie Nursery website. A visit to your local library might also provide inspiration. Your garden is wide enough to have several different clumps of plants (see the suggestion below about geraniums, but wild ginger would be a nice contrast to the grass). Of course, you might choose a different grass or even a sedge.


    If you aren't interested in natives, consider hellebores. I think that they would survive in your area. They are shade-loving with nice winter interest. In my zone 5 garden I also grow lavender and sedum that provide winter interest. As do seedheads of purple coneflower.


    The advice to get rid of the rocks is spot on. Replace the rocks with an organic mulch. When you remove the mulch you will be able to plant much more closely--maybe interplant a border of perennial geraniums. There is a native one that grows well in my garden and is green(ish) all winter.

  • littlebug Zone 5 Missouri
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Agree with laceyvail - your pictures #3 and #4 show plantings much much too close to the porch. A plant with an expected mature diameter of 3’, for example, should not be planted closer than 2.5’, (measured from the center of the plant) from a structure.

  • donelle900
    Original Author
    last year

    Thank you all for the thoughtful feedback.
    Some comments:

    1. The rock mulch is staying. Removing it from the entire perimeter of the house is a non-starter. I also have two 100’x5’ perennial gardens in the back that I cypress mulch already. I am not adding more annual mulching to my gardening list.
    2. The photos are misleading. I do have 6 fully grown dogwood planted. The shrub center is 36” off of the porch and the dogwood do not scrape at all. When we get a major rainstorm water will rush off and over the gutter onto whatever is planted underneath, hence the need for sturdy plantings. I’m not sure perennial flowers would hold up.
    3. I do prune the dogwood at this time, but they still end up looking too “wild”.
    4. I am considering a panicle hydrangea, cleotha, or possibly diervilla. I want to plant the panicle hydrangea but am really concerned about how leggy it could get.

  • Embothrium
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Many popular deciduous shrubs have dwarf cultivars on the general market these days. Making it unnecessary to plant unsuitably large-growing kinds in small spaces, whack them back repeatedly. That said it remains that there is nothing that becomes twigs only for months at a time that will read well against the visually dominating backdrop the involved part of your house produces - only evergreen shrubs will work. And that is because these would hide the red-and-white porch wherever it is directly behind them - the fundamental situation there is that the associated architectural features have been designed and painted to command attention. So any plantings that have enough height to grow up in front of them yet not entirely block them from view for much of the year will produce a confused or messy appearance. During those times that the porch etc. can be seen through the plants.

    In fact many individuals would have grass or paving come right up to a house front like that. (Or at least have the simplicity of a low evergreen groundcovering plant throughout*). Instead of comparatively deep and flowing beds like you have there now. That a body would have a mixed planting in. With all manner of different kinds of plants, an important property feature on its own. And needing a plain backdrop that supports the border rather than conflicts with it - if it were me I would take out most of those particular beds and plant my hydrangeas etc. out where I was looking at them from inside the house. Instead of against it. Against at least that part of it, where the building itself has so much going on already.

    I would still plant evergreen shrubs at the one corner where that downspout extender sticks way out. Unless it was possible to use a much shorter one after the bed was removed.

    *Even with this there would be the practical concern that has not been discussed directly that built features that need upkeep involving standing and walking next to them become much more of a bother to work on if there are flowers and shrubs in the way

  • violetsnapdragon
    last year

    I planted two clethra two years ago. It's just an okay-looking shrub, nothing special.

  • PRO
    Dig Doug's Designs
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Here are a few suggestions:





    I do not believe it is necessary for everything to be evergreen .

  • Nancy R z5 Chicagoland
    last year

    Since you like hydrangeas, you could also look into mountain hydrangeas (Hydrangea Serrata). They are the size you wanted and there is a choice of several different colors.

  • Embothrium
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Doug's scheme does nothing to keep the red deck from showing through all winter - the Clethra that are hiding it in his mockup will turn to thin brown sticks after autumn leaf drop each year. And the variegated dogwood is of course deciduous as well. Leaving only the mugo pines to provide yearround screening of the backdrop. Which they won't do at the front of the border. And will soon grow together and conflict with another using the spacing shown, unless pruned to slow their growth every spring. Of course, mugo pine is also a full sun plant. As are Hylotelephium. If that is what the pink flowers are supposed to be.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    last year

    Hydrangea serrata is a no-go for zone 4! Won't survive the winter.

    And while I would always lean to evergreens for year round interest and ease of care, if you get a lot of snow cover - which I imagine zone 4 does - that is less critical if the plants are buried under snow for months each winter.

    Clethra will get taller than you want or need and has a limited season of interest. Diervilla is a decent choice, as is dwarf fothergilla. There are also dwarf or very compact panicle hydrangeas on the market but they will not bloom well if the area receives much shade.

  • donelle900
    Original Author
    last year

    Wow, I’m blown away by how awesome everyone’s advice is! The photo mock ups were so unexpected, thank you.

    The corner where the long gutter runs is where all utilities come to the house. I have an autumn serviceberry on the very corner to bring some three season interest. I may just resign myself to never having winter garden interest, im afraid. I’ll just have to get more holiday decorations :)

    Diervilla may just be the ticket to replace the dogwood that looks overgrown. Thank you to violets for the feedback on the cleotha being somewhat blah.

  • Nancy R z5 Chicagoland
    last year

    Oops! I humbly retract my suggestion. Apparently, the zone limit for mountain hydrangea is 5 (I have two).