I like the concept. Even though I don't feel much of "hell". But i like the idea. reminded me.

mine'd be "hell in a garden" lol

I love red, it becomes me. Everyday..I wonder. If I had a house that'd support that-I can see having a red room.

If I added a few women with big hair, some black melmac ashtrays, a couple of guys with sideburns, a bit more wood and some rocks glasses here and there...it would look sort of like Cavelli's bar.

DV's room/apartment is explained by DV, who was larger than life. I wonder if the same is true of the Dallas homeowner. Intriguing : ) .

I found this 1975 AD story on Vreeland's NY apartment.

https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/diana-vreeland-new-york-apartment-article

https://www.architecturaldigest.com/gallery/diana-vreeland-new-york-apartment-slideshow

And here's a good article about the room,

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/sep/20/news/la-lh-diana-vreeland-eye-has-to-travel-20120920

I love her bedroom, which has a blue colorway of the same fabric on the walls.

I can appreciate DV's room-- and the one in Dallas, over the dour gray rooms, devoid of any personality, that one sees today

Another point to keep in mind was when this room was originally done. I believe it was finished in 1957.

Of course lots of the photos and other personal effects followed, but 1957. That puts it in a different perspective than if it had been done in the 1970s.

I know I am rambling, but another thing I notice about some of these heavily executed rooms that are expected to last forever is that the ceilings were often not ceiling white, but were sort of treated to look a little dirty and old as if they were taking into account the heavy cigarette smoking that was done in the period.

I like them both, although I like the Dallas one better, even though it is not quite as grand.

The other view of the room is nice, too.

The windows and the blue Delft temper the red somewhat

I much prefer the Dallas version. I do love red, though. My grandmother had a room done in Chinoiserie and red lacquer.

I like the other view of the Dallas room.

And I think I prefer the Dallas room to DV's. Even with the patterned rug vs. solid carpet, it feels less busy.

Is the ceiling lacquer in the Dallas house?

I think having a bit of the wood floor exposed helps relieve the eye in the Dallas house

Here's how to do a "red" room. This is the late Mrs Astor's famous library done by Albert Hadley.

I don't think the ceiling is lacquer. At least not like the other lacquer room in the house...

This is a pretty good lacquer job

I hear color is coming back in style!

I do like that they are RED.

Not burgundy, not brick, not some pinky-red Pantone color of the year, but Arrest-Me RED. Fire Engine RED. Crayola 4-pack RED. I'm tired of halfassed faded sorta colors. :)

A good shade of bloody red is never tied to a decade, though its application may be.

love it, love it, love it. not the red it is killing me, but i will die happy for someone having posted it. lol

I did crayola red in my hair once upon a time. I do love red. However these rooms make me feel a little migraine-y. Just.so.much.stuff. I am getting old. Need peace in my living enviornment these days, lol.

I am a big fan of Brooke Astor's red library and I've posted it a number of times over the years as an example of a room that is perennially a "good" room.

(And one of the interesting things about it to me is the upholstery fabric, which I guarantee would get shot down as "hideous" and "dated" and "bedbugs" in this very forum if a picture of the sofa were photoshopped into a Goodwill somewhere. To me this shows the importance of Context. It's perfect in this room.)

But I don't think there is a narrow definition on "how" to do a room in any color, so much. Diana Vreeland and Brooke Astor are two different sorts of people and they had two different outcomes in mind. I don't think Astor was looking for a vision of Hell, and I don't think that Vreeland was looking for something refined. Vreeland's grandson talks about the apartment being filled with smoke, incense, and perfume. I can picture that--I think she wanted sensory overload.

The furniture won't get shot down by me Pal. I particularly like the furniture in the DV room. However, as a whole the room is too unsettling for me. I'd need a break somewhere for my eye to land...even if it was just some lighter rugs layered on the floor or some large paintings with large scale folk art content on the wall where the sconces are.

I think the reason that it is so assaultive is that it is well lit for a real estate ad. Dark and dim, and intimate, it’s probably fabulous and moody.

It’s not a room for 8:00 a.m. Or, maybe it IS, and is just a substitute for coffee!

When we finished our basement long ago, I had the guest room walls painted deep red. The darkest color on the color strip red. The trim, doors, mirror frame etc. are bright white and the bedding is kind of nautical looking red and white. (Floor is engineered wood.) I loved it (still kinda do) but my builder said "Well at least your guests won't stay too long."

Sometimes a really nice room is only nice part of the day, and that's okay--I think it has to look its best when it gets the most use.

Some really nice rooms are hard to photograph well. Dark rooms can be nice in person, as can rooms with lots of mirrors or reflective surfaces...but they can look harsh in photographs.

I don't know which forum more people are reading this thread in, but I did post it in the Buying and Selling forum as one of the options.

This house is clearly not neutralized and depersonalized for resale, and I am not sure it will make any difference. While I think cleaning up and making sure things are in good condition are always important, I think the importance of making your house look almost generic has been overstated and is only important in some markets.

What I find interesting, and this may be somewhat regional is that many Gen Y and Millennials seem to be very set on new construction both for both purchase and rental. So trendy, impersonal and brand-spankin' new. This is somewhat problematic in an urban environment with a lot of older housing stock. My SO has had both buy and rent clients who will not look at anything which has been lived in before, and have called rental units completed as recently as 2000 "dated". I think this has something to do with the types of housing they had in college, much of which has become very elaborate and chock-full of amenities. (And those are the sorts of Y's and Millennials who went to certain types of schools that put them on a trajectory where they are able to afford to be this particular.)

Diana Vreeland and Brooke Astor are two different sorts of people and they had two different outcomes in mind.

This to me is the important part. Their rooms and homes are reflections of who they each were as people. You can't consider the rooms without considering the personalities, and I think not understanding this is one of the biggest problems most people have with decorating their own houses, and why they end up in a sea of similar greige interiors accessorized by TJ Maxx. If you search for "blah" in the Design Dilemma forum, you get more than 3,000 hits, in the GW Home decorating forum, almost 1,400 hits (and it would be more if the archives went back further).

Vreeland was, as The Guardian once put it, "never knowingly understated" and once said, “Too much good taste can be boring”; whereas Astor was good taste and understatement personified, hoping to focus attention more on her charitable causes and passions which centered around libraries, literacy, and learning. The focus for DV's red room is the general style and look of the room and her love of red (her trademark look was red lips and nails and rouged cheeks and earlobes, set off by severe black lacquered hair), but for Astor it was, as suggested to her by her designer Albert Hadley, highlighting her late husband's book collection (more than 3,000 volumes, many which had their original 19th-century Moroccan leather bindings) which fit in well with her passions. From a 1986 NY Times article about the room:

"Throughout the room, there is a tidy trail of objets d'art. Together with the books, there are excellent bronze and vermeil animal sculptures everywhere. They manifest the two subjects that have long pleased her the most, literature and nature. Everywhere in this most personal of the public rooms in her apartment, she has surrounded herself with tangible expressions of her interest. 'I never tire of this room,' she says."

What I find interesting, and this may be somewhat regional is that many Gen Y and Millennials seem to be very set on new construction both for both purchase and rental. So trendy, impersonal and brand-spankin' new.

You can see this in the Home Decorating forum as well, where new homeowners talk about "putting my own stamp" on an older house (almost 22,000 hits in the HD forum between my/our own stamp). And yet, as I just wrote in my previous post, their own stamps are everyone else's stamps, rife with Pinterest-approved neutrals and mass produced discount accessories.

I have a red kitchen, not dark red, but actual primary red. I love it, and I doubt I would ever change it. I tend to gravitate towards red for pretty much everything, but whoa, this is too much.

I can't find the quotation I am looking for, but Laurel Bern said something about the importance of understanding yourself before you can have a strong sense of personal style. She said she thought that was one of the most difficult aspects of being able to pull off successful rooms.

I have puzzled over this tidbit since reading it. I can't quite figure out how people cannot know what they like. I understand not wanting to make a mistake. And I understand being too timid for a red lacquered room. But defaulting to decorating in monotones with no personality, punctuated by Joanna Gaines's wall clock, I cannot quite figure out.

And I am not being snobby about this. I view all the traditional elements of a well put together house with tremendous suspicion. I see the cliché in my ginger jars and Persian rugs, and try to ensure that mine reflect something more than Ralph Lauren's vision of a certain slice of British life interpreted for American houses.

maybe it's partially a matter of exposure/lack thereof

it's hard to know whether you like something if you haven't seen it. or haven't seen it in its natural context. you don't have an "around" to give you enough assocciations that will start your inner proccess going

One blogger was always of a very strong opinion of how any patterned tile but subway is "trendy"

until she went to Italy and saw the context of said patterned tile

then one realizes it's never just a tile, a color, a whatever

it's much like any story I guess

if you see the word "and", for example.

it's a nice word)) well to me it sounds nice, (and I like its color lol), and assumes some continuity..there's certain interest in a word itself

yet you still don't have enough of a story

I don't know whether I'm making much sense right now

I think there are too many factors for me to be judgmental when someone is perfectly happy with generic trendy decor. I will explain why with some non-decor examples in a minute.

What does bug me though is when people who are into serial redecorating and constant replacement and updating imply that people who don't continually redecorate are neglectful and dirty. Think of all the dust mites in their sofas and the filth in their carpets.

When I was getting ready to sell my dad's house, someone sniffed that they would never look at a house last decorated in 1987 because they could only assume that someone who didn't care enough to redecorate regularly probably had substandard electrical, failing plumbing, a leaking roof. I can never figure out how these two are supposed to be related, but whatever. (My dad put on a new roof at age 90. Not that the old one really needed to be replaced, he just thought it would be a nice thing for the new owners not to have to worry about for a while--or 15-20 years).

----

But I think a lot of people may have interests and still not know what they want or what they really like:

My dad had a friend who loved to eat. He really enjoyed meals and his weight showed it. He routinely ordered what the person next to him ordered for dinner. Because, he said, he couldn't really taste enought to discern the differences or nuances between different sorts of decent food. He was not a fan of junk food or snacks really, he liked real food...he just didn't know what he liked about it. Conversely I work with someone who is borderline obese (and used to be morbidly obese) who is extremely picky about food. But everything she likes is terrible. She would choose buffalo wings or McDonalds (and I have nothing against the occasional McDonalds) and turn her nose up at the top ten best restaurants in town.

My SO is a former pastry chef who while making and enjoying some relatively high concept deserts (we had Bananas Foster during our family week at the shore for example) anyway the former pastry chef has absolutely no strong criteria for dessert and even a really bad dessert or dollar store cookies get a lot of attention.

So I know people who are very interested in decorating and binge on design shows and magazines, and yet their taste is whatever is current and whatever strikes their fancy. I had a sometimes client who never actually finished any decorating, and it was problematic because every time I went in his bedroom, one of the rooms we were supposed to be doing, he had a different bedspread. He had about seven bedspreads during the time I did work for him, probably two a year, each completely different than the last. But he's still very interested in the process. But the idea that it will take me several years sometimes between the conception of a room to the finished project and that I still like it all the way through and when it's done, is completely foriegn to him. (And I do not watch any design television, and I only look at one design magazine regularly).

maybe it's partially a matter of exposure/lack thereof

it's hard to know whether you like something if you haven't seen it. or haven't seen it in its natural context. you don't have an "around" to give you enough assocciations that will start your inner proccess going

Yes, this is what ID and textile designer Peter Dunham has talked about. I think I mentioned it on another thread (aha, I found it, this one, not so surprisingly on "[Deciding on home style??[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/deciding-on-home-style-dsvw-vd~5048398)"): "I see a lot of people in the States, who basically want to live in a hotel or have the look of a hotel. I think this comes because, and this is a really snobbish thing to say, the American experience is much more limited. I mean compared to England, where there is always kind of a fancy house in the country near where you grew up, even if you grew up in a little village. In Europe, at one point or another, you are exposed to these palettes and you see the pinnacle of the amazing beautiful chateaus in France or the great country houses in England. Whereas I grew up thinking my inspiration is Lord and Lady something-or-other, who had an incredible house with incredible colors and beautiful paintings and furniture and it was all mixed together, and it was kind of roses and 17th-century Chinese porcelain. A lot of people here want what they last saw at the Four Seasons Hotel."

There's also a quote I like from Albert Hadley (Brooke Astor's decorator) who said, "Obviously, you can’t have much of an opinion if you don’t know anything about what you are talking about. You have to have some education or some exposure. I am always interested in young people who have some kind of knowledgeable background about the business and about the people who have been involved in it over the years. … When I was growing up, I was educated mainly from magazines because in those days that’s where you could get at it. All of the magazines were so fabulous because they showed how the best of the best people lived — the ladies and gentlemen of style and taste, and what their houses looked like. The articles were wonderful and many of the magazines in the thirties had marvellous illustrations by the artist of the day."

I think there are a number of factors that have come together, from the lack of exposure you mention, April, which includes the decline (in quality and number) of shelter magazines, mass production and the rise of chain stores (Pottery Barn, RH, etc.) dependent on selling ever more product to keep their investment firm private equity hedge fund overlords (the Bain Capitals and Kohlberg Kravis Robertses et al.) happy, the resulting death of individual shops and companies helmed by experts in a field, to human nature. So much now especially with social media seems to celebrate trends, like chevron, grey, that white walls and baskets Kinfolk look, etc. And instead of individual "tastemakers" we now have, thanks to social media, "influencers" who are being surreptitiously paid to push product. I think this is also one reason why people come here asking how to avoid the trendy, only to be told "choose what you like", but then they don't know what they like.

Rita, I've had the same horribly consistent sense of style (varying amounts of money though lol) since I was a teenager. And yes, that style includes ginger jars and Persian rugs : ) .

I get frustrated when I see topics where someone wants to rip out hardwood floors and put down gray fake wood whatever. They don't get that the real hardwood floors are a much better long-term value, they just want what someone told them they should have.

Or any other variation of removing a timeless feature to replace with a trendy item.

oh my such a wealth of verbage, i have too many things torespond too, it has but my brain on the blink. so i will just give some pics and then go watch nick stellino, my current tv heart throb! lol

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me too, i have other painted floors

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To critique these latest photos, I feel like the Villanova room is well-crafted, but at the same time it does not go nearly far enough with the red. You could change the wall color to primary green or blue and it would still be the same: even though it's a nice room it still lacks some of the commitment needed, somehow.

pal, I'll just quote you here so I don't mess it up:

"And one of the interesting things about it to me is the upholstery fabric, which I guarantee would get shot down as "hideous" and "dated" and "bedbugs" in this very forum if a picture of the sofa were photoshopped into a Goodwill somewhere. To me this shows the importance of Context. It's perfect in this room."

How important is context, though? Or, rather, should context be important when choosing..stuff? It baffles me, somewhat, that many people can't see past the obvious. Maybe imaginations are suffering because of internet instant-gratification. No thinking required...and yes...as far as the first part of your statement I agree...the fabric wouldn't even be given a chance. I think that's why posters who are trying so hard to get help with goodwill pieces or grandmas sofa or mom's rug (because of budget or preference)...just get lost amongst those who only want to Gainsify a room....

Companies that make wallpaper , make fabric as well.

I like red, but this is way too much. I haven’t read all the comments, but I do like the library Anglo posted.

Don’t let Mtn see this! Or maybe she already has and is shell-shocked.

Context is always important.

I live in a neighborhood where there are graduate students and medical students and residents in and out, and furniture gets left of the street or rotates through used furniture places.

Medical students and residents frequently come from medical or other professional families and have grown up in "decorated" houses and you will see two sorts of sofas left behind. One type was brand new when they moved in (seeing this more and more) and cheap enough to abandon or give away after a few years. The other is a very good quality, but old and very specifically upholstered sofa that may have started out in the LR or in a decorated basement or something that has been held onto because it's a good sofa. Maybe it even came from their grandparents' decorated house.

Which looks worse sitting on the street or in a resale shop, divorced from its' setting?

It's not going to be this one, which is a cheap, generic and inoffensive sofa that upon closer look is not really well made:

It's going to be this one, which at some point was part of a fabulously and very specifically decorated room that was really committed to looking like something, regardless of whether it's your taste or not. I think it's similar to celebrities and models. Some celebrities and models are actually kind of ugly when they are not made up for work. Because beauty and ugliness are often just a few degrees apart, but they are usually at the other end of the spectrum from ordinary.

Companies that make wallpaper , make fabric as well.

And if they didn't you could get someone to make it for you easier and less expensively in the past than you can now. Vreeland's walls may actually be fabric.

It sounds as if the blue fabric in Vreeland's bedroom was made for her since she liked the red version so much. She certainly had the resources.

Thibaut is one company who makes a lot of fabric and paper combinations at not outrageous prices. Robert Allen will back most of their fabrics to use as wall covering. Quadrille is a very pricey company who makes fabrics and wallcoverings that match.

Vreeland's walls may actually be fabric.

I believe in my internet travels yesterday I read that it was a Gaston y Daniela fabric purchased from John Fowler in London, and selected because it was a reasonably priced version of a Braquenie fabric; and I think Baldwin misremembers it in his memoirs as Braquenie.

I re-Googled : ) . More here including the comments which are fascinating (with input from the late great Aesthete's Lament blog) along with the information that the apartment itself was relatively small and the hallway linoleum because while "Mrs V led an outwardly glamorous life ... [she] was financially restricted in many ways. The apartment shows that to a degree, which is inspiring in itself, ie a brilliant but inexpensive fabric used with flair but judiciously to achieve a grand effect."

Well there is really nothing the matter with linoleum or vinyl that looks exactly like what it is and many decorators used it to great effect.

I am putting VCT in the front half of my house just to annoy people. And as a protest that every two bit flip now has a marble bathroom and a chandelier in the kitchen.

Love the commitment in these rooms! DV's room is my favorite. I'd like it better without the carpet but it wouldn't be 1957 without wall to wall now would it?

I am putting VCT in the front half of my house just to annoy people.

Pal, I'm very curious. I've been trying to investigate VCT, but since it's always on the commercial side nobody bothers with any info on care on their sites. Do the new surface finishes still need waxing?

And yeah, I like both those rooms in the OP, although I like the fireplace view the best.

Pal, I'm very curious. I've been trying to investigate VCT, but since it's always on the commercial side nobody bothers with any info on care on their sites. Do the new surface finishes still need waxing?

Yes they still need waxing because they are not really new surface finishes. They are exactly what they have always been. But I am looking at using this, for less maintenance.

http://nanopowershine.com/

And of course, they will not get the use they do in a commercial setting. I know some people who have them stripped and rewaxed and buffed every year or two. But we may get a light-use buffer anyway.

Thanks very much. Mannington, in particular, seems to imply that there's something extra-special about their finish now, but they are very vague about it.

april, I was just thinking of your comment about lack of exposure while reading some articles and obituaries about the British antiquarian and dandy Christopher Gibbs who died earlier this month. And the dust remark made me think of pal's comment. From a 2000 NY Times article after Gibbs had, reluctantly, sold his family's estate,

He is also a leading proponent of that elusive brand of anti-decoration, high-bohemian taste favored by self-confident Englishmen, a look based on well-worn grandeur, disarming charm and unexpected contrasts. The magic is in the mix of masterpieces and oddities -- like an assemblage of refined and wild-card house guests who mysteriously combine to create the ideal convivial country-house weekend. The allergy here is to the banal, not to dust. ''It's an aesthetic that emanates from great culture and personal passions -- not from merely traipsing around the D&D Building,'' said Peter Dunham, a Los Angeles-based interior designer, who planned to trek from Beverly Hills for the sale. ''I'm going not just because there are wonderful things to buy, but because I expect it to be an incredible learning experience.''