I have been using it for some time for bananas and palms and have not had any problems. I have had a majesty palm in a mix of good potting soil and coir for 4 years.

I have been using it for some time for bananas and palms and have not had any problems. I have had a majesty palm in a mix of good potting soil and coir for 4 years.

I have been using it for some time for bananas and palms and have not had any problems. I have had a majesty palm in a mix of good potting soil and coir for 4 years.

I have been using it for some time for bananas and palms and have not had any problems. I have had a majesty palm in a mix of good potting soil and coir for 4 years.

Thank you for posting - extremely interesting, but I couldn't find your "Read More" link. Can you provide a link?

Al

Oh God. What now? I filled 3 large containers with what appears to be the most beautiful, airy mix using milleniumsoils coir. I wonder whether it originated in Sri Lanka, but, really, so what if it did. Am now considering trashing it and cutting my losses before putting it to a real test next season. Thank you for this info. I was also unable to find the "read more" link at the end of the paper.
Hi Al, I'm not surprised to see you here.
Amy

So sorry. I found this article on another forum. When going to the USU website, I got an introductory article which said to click on 'read more' to get more information. Well as it turns out this address happens to be the PDF file that the 'read more' refers to. Don't know if this makes sense but on this PDF file there is no 'read more'

I read the paper. Maybe I missed it, but I don't remember seeing a rinse/cation exchange process with the coir.

I wonder if you would have the same result if you did a triple rinse and cation exchange like we do with CHC...

I was thinking I could rinse it better. Maybe even direct the run-off from the upper roof directly into the containers over the winter, since the ground doesn't really get hard around here until, maybe, late Jan. What is CHC?
Amy

Coconut husk chips.

Al

Interesting study. I wonder if part of the reason why coconut coir performs poorly is that the complex organic chemicals in it tie up and store nutrients and minerals rather than releasing them to the roots, as good soil ought to. Anyway, thankfully not using any coir in my container garden at the moment.

Anybody ever think that maybe the paper was written to lobby against the use of coir? They sure were quick to push that peat moss site the first chance they got. Anybody out there using coconut coir and can tell us how its worked out for them?

True, it's always useful to know who has funded any study. But the kale I planted on Labor day (small but healthy plants) should be looking a lot better. Kale is even better after a little frost. And there shouldn't be hundreds of tiny green oval-shaped whatever they are on the back side of the leaves. Right? I just saw those today. Oh God.
Amy

I think phoenix7801 makes a very good point. The paper starts out by saying the only reason people might object to peat is because of the non renewable resource question (something they dismiss by pointing to the website of the 'Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss Association' - which doesn't inspire confidence in their agenda) when there are other reasons peat might be a source of trouble (root compaction, difficulties of rewetting, as well as the opposite, depending) that can be immediately disadvantageous. I grow maples in pots and the root compaction issue alone makes me look for other alternatives.
I wouldn't immediately junk all your coir products because of this study. They want you to use peat - this isn't about coir.

I am automatically suspicious of any study that seems to have a lobby behind it. But do you think the whole thing could be completely fake? The comparative photos are convincing. And then there is the poor growth of my kale, and the little green things. I have since pulled out the kale. I found, in my mix, a small luminous, green worm. Very bright green, looking young. What's that? But, I must say, the root system was extensive. The arugala seedlings, planted at the same time, are puny. It tastes good, and no bugs, but not much growth. When I first transplanted, it was as though everything breathed thankfully and grew perceptively for a while. What to do!
Amy

It's possible they have an agenda. More and more studies are funded by special interest groups now, and it's sad. Using science for the wrong aims or purposeful misinformation.

Another thing that rereading the paper brought to mind was the mention of a high C to N ratio for the coir. Wouldn't that make it somewhat similar to wood chips, which are high in C but lacking N, and have to steal it from the surroundings to decompose? There are a couple posts in the soil forum which warn against adding wood chips to a compost pile unless you can add rich N sources (greens or leaves) to help speed up decomposition. If coir is low in N, it could be locked in a three-way race between its decomposing self, soil microbes, and the plants for nitrogen use. And that's a race you don't want.

Hi, amyben-
a study doesn't have to be completely fake, it can be incomplete, simply - but misleading if it still hints at a conclusion, or invites other publications - on the basis of their study - to prematurely state a conclusion (peat is good - the message here, it seems to me). This study explicitly gives no causes for their results - what if they failed to take into account this or that aspect of their scientific set up?
An example:
I use a mix of pine bark, clay pellets (a bit like Turface), and a 'forest humus' type product (pine, woodchaff, etc) which also includes coir. The manufacturer told me about nitrogen fixation in relation to coco products - i.e. I needed to take into account the nitrogen deficit that occurs - a bit like maiko says in the previous post.
Now I didn't rush to add too much N, since I am growing mostly maples, and too much nitrogen doesn't make them healthier. I also used the mix for roses - big eaters, I'm told - and added a regular dose of fertilizer. Growth has been good, especially the rootdevelopment has been strong. I still need to find out about how quickly it breaks down, how long aeration is decently assured, etc, but so far results have been promising.

My point is also to experiment: find out what works and what doesn't. You need to repot anyway all the time, so vary your use of coir, use different brands, different ratios, more or less fertilizer and over the years you'll know what works best for you and your climate and growth conditions. I am all for science, so why not try some ourselves ;)

Hi schusch,
Yes, you're right. I was alarmed by the comparative photos, and found those growing in coir almost painful. I have decided to flush well, keep 2 large containers and add charcoal as maiku suggests, fertilize well w/ something fishy, and compare all my mixes by planting at least a couple of same plants in each. I was drawn to using coir as part of Al's mix instead of peat not only because it claims to be renewable, but also because it would retain water longer and break down much more slowly. I was hoping to not have to mess with the soil for a few years, except to remove old roots, add medium as neeed, and fertilize. So much for that. This keeps it interesting.
Amy

By the way, Maiku offers some very compelling reading in answer to my posted question: should I trash my medium.

The horror! I too was bitten by the coir bug....fortunately I didn't obtain any until after last spring's major re-potting. But there were 4 plants I ordered online that didn't arrive 'til midsummer, and I had coir by then. I re-potted them in a mix that was largely coir. The mix stayed very wet for weeks...I was hoping that the water-logging wouldn't be a problem because of the visible porosity of the mix, but the plants started looking awful and fungus gnats began breeding like mad. So I re-potted again, still using some coir but using pine "soil conditioner" bark as the main ingredient. It didn't occur to me that the coir itself could contain something harmful to the plants, only that it was just TOO moisture retentive (but the coir advocates are right about one thing, it certainly doesn't compact, to the point where I was afraid that the roots might not be in full enough contact with it! And when you water it you can't just pour the water on top and expect it to spread to the edges, it runs immediately out of the drainage holes before wetting any areas that aren't in direct contact with the flow of water.)

Anyway, after reading the USU paper things are falling into place. All of those 4 plants exhibited new growth that was yellowish and stunted. Even after re-potting them into a mix with much less coir, 1 died and the others are doing somewhat better but are still way below par. Until coming upon this thread I though maybe the problem was the just the plants themselves...all obtained from the same online vendor, in the same shipment.

I have a lot of coir that I no longer have a use for, so I'll try an experiment next spring. I'll root cuttings of the plants that need frequent tip-pruning in it. I'll report back with the results.

WOW. I wish I saw this sooner. I have to go off.

"Anybody ever think that maybe the paper was written to lobby against the use of coir? "

"I am automatically suspicious of any study that seems to have a lobby behind it."

"They want you to use peat - this isn't about coir"

Yikes.....are you people serious? The paper was written by an someone at the Univeristy of Utah. So I guess by suggesting that the "peat moss lobby" is behind it is to question the academic credibility of that university and authors. In my opinion that is a reckless and absurd thing to say. I might also point out that the data is in the paper - so if you had a legitimate problem with it why not talk about that?

Truth is, you are not smart enough or educated enough to do that, but have your own expectations and hopes about the material. I think you people are much more biased than the authors, and you attacked someone else for no other reason than they reached a conclusion (after conducting a controlled study) you didn't like. At least the authors had the decency to put some data behind their claims.

Some grad student, professor or whoever took the time to do the study and write the paper and you question their integrity with no evidence of impropriety. You're a bunch of reckless idiots. Do you have any idea what you've said about this school and authors? Gross.

First Tcharles, I was the first to respond about the paper in an alternative light. There were several people before I responded that seemed to read the article and wanted to toss their mix without having tried it for themselves. I was simply playing devils advocate in hope to try and get people thinking considering this is a forum. I even invited anyone who personally tried coir to comment yea or nay on whether it works.
Next, the simple fact that a grad student,professor, PH.D wrote the article does not release then from being scrutinized. In fact, I can guarantee that they're gonna be scrutinized a whole hell of a lot more considering its an academic article and for it to be published academics have to agree on its contents.
Last, I would say that though not all of us are intellectuals, a few of us have a strong will to do our own investigating and dont except everything printed(on the internet mind you) as ersatz. If a coalition of petroleum magnates got together tomorrow and told all of us its good to fertilize your garden with 93 octane, would you do you

So, we're a "bunch of reckless idiots" for being sceptical? Many a "controlled study" is lacking, sometimes unwittingly, sometimes deliberately. Do you, a self-proclaimed "belligerent know-it-all", automatically accept all university research as "pure"? Your candor, though, is refreshing. Fun, even.
And now for my most recent gardening strategy: I am going to remove my coir-based medium from the large containers, keeping it in test containers for next spring's comparisons. I decided this based on the abominable condition of most of the things I planted on labor day. Although it was late, it's still warm enough here for my neighbor's garden, for example, to still be doing some growing. So, I'll let it flush with water this winter, (it probably won't totally freeze), and see how it behaves with seedlings in April.

Amy

By the way: Why muddy a scholarly paper, supposedly neutral, with a link to a commercial website (.com)? Are there no university studies of peat outside of commerce?
Amy