Bucky:

You have to better define what you mean by "not the best drained". Apple roots will do pretty well in soil that drains slowly, and a lot depends on your soil type as well. I assume you are dealing with clay.

I would have loosened up a wide circle of you soil, no matter how bad it may seem, and planted the trees at grade, perhaps a little high but surely not with the bottom of the roots just touching the surface. Until the roots begin to sink into the native soil, they will be very weak and the trees subject to blowover. A good rainstorm could also expose a lot the roots unless you give your mounding regular attention. Later on, when it gets dry, your mounds will dry out quicker than the soil beneath. I think you are setting yourself up for a lot of problems in the future.

M7i and EMLA 111 do not normally require external support; I don't know about the other two, but unless they are classified as full dwarf they should not. But the way you are planting your trees, all of them will need support for the foreseeable future.

I know you will find a lot of support here for the mounding technique, but unless you are in a real swamp there I would take those trees out, do some digging, and plant with the graft about 3 inches above the soil line.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Ah swamp, forgot about that. It remains very wet for the first few months of spring. I live at the end of a hollow so all the spring rain and snow melt drains onto my place. In the area in the area that i planted yesterday it was very yucky, some water on the surface. The others were planted a litte away from that in an area that is a lot of clay with some decent topsoil. If you were to dig down in to it this time of the year it would fill with water. I just want to stay away from creating a bowl for the water to stand around the roots.

I put the soil line up to about an inch below the graft line as I am expecting a few inches of my mounds to settle. This will leave a mound about 8 inches above the soil line in a circle about 3 feet across. Its very good top soil with a lot of organic matter and im expecting some very good root growth this year.

Should i dig them out? I have more apple, peach, pear, and cherry. Any advice on them?

hi Bucky-

I can't help but chime in here for several reasons...

First, I love your apple choices!
Second, the majority of my trees came from Century Farms. Another great choice. I have had 100% success with my trees from them, that is, 19 out of 19 are thriving. Thats pretty good.
Third, I definitely think you should take Jellyman's advice. I know it sucks now, to have to replant those 5 trees, but trust us. You will be so glad you did.

I planted 4 trees on MM111 stock and 15 on bud 9. The mm111 should not need support if planted correctly. Mine sustained 60 mph winds from Isabell and I sat on the porch and watched them sway. The bud 9's however, need full support for the life of the tree. You can stake or trellis them. If you stake them, buy 6 foot metal "t-post" stakes and bury the "t" 2 feet in the ground 6-8 inches from the tree during planting. 4 feet of the post out of the ground is all you need to support the trunk. Trellissing is prettier but requires more initial work.

I was very worried about my clay soil drainage but I planted mine in it, with the bud union 2" above ground level and man, when it gets dry in the summer they are good to go.

Did you test soil to see if you need lime? Apple trees can't uptake nutrients if the soil pH is too high or too low. I also add bonemeal to the planting hole (about a cup) which amounts to a straight shot of natural phosphorous = good root development.

Bucky:

You have a tough situation there. Water on the surface when you are planting does not sound good. Nevertheless, I still think you should get the roots into the actual soil.

With one exception -- and that is cherries. I don't think you should try to grow cherries on a site like this. They will not survive.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

I do not mind adjusting them a little. Should be to hard, ill just take the tree out of the mound and push the soil back and dig a few inches down into the the ground. I did not do a soil test, I limed the whole area 2 years ago, i grow food plots in the area for deer. I do have some bone meal sitting around, ill throw some of that in. I still have ove 30 trees coming, i meant to ask these questions before they came but these arrived before i thought they would.

Cherries are going to be planted at the highest point in the "orchard" this area is not wet. I am not planting everything in one big sqaure. It basically broke into three sections with different kinds of soil, yes all in a small area. I think when I get home im going to adjuest the so they roots are about 4 or 5 inches into the actual soil. That will leave me with a 3 or 4 inch mound. Sound ok?
Section 1 (All Apple)is what i described earlier, wet and messy most of the spring with clay.
Section 2 ( will end up mostly peach with a few pear and an apple or 2)the lower side of my driveway, already has some trees producing there, is very fertile soil that does hold some water, its the lowest point.
Section 3 (I will be planting 3 cherry and 4 peach) is above my driveway and isnt muddy even in the spring.

I'd like to tag on a question because it is related. I just planted a Northstar cherry, 2 plums and an almond. My question is about pruning right as it goes in the ground. My extention office suggests even though it sounds extreme to prune the plum trees at planting to a 30in whip. Will allow roots to grow and inspire open middle... I did that with the plums, but didn't know if I should do it to the dwarf cherry. Even though it is dwarf, I still want it shaped properly and hold as many as possible when producing...And the almond is just a whip anyhow, how and when do i prune it?

"i grow food plots in the area for deer"

All your work will be in vain if you don't fence these trees to protect them from the deer.

Bucky,

You asked about apple, pear, peach and cherry. In terms of water tolerance. Pear is most tolerant. I've not lost one yet, do to drowning, but they will abort their fruit if they sit in standing water too long. In terms of apples, 111 is pretty tolerant, but I lost an apple on either M9, or M7 (I can't remember which, without looking it up). Don't know about the other apple rootstocks you mention. Peaches aren't water tolerant at all. They need to be in a mound if you have standing water, or if you dig a hole and find it filling up with water. I've found cherries pretty tolerant of water, on Colt rootstock. I understand Mahaleb is not water tolerant. Mazzard is supposed to be fairly water tolerant (Have some of those going in this spring).

In terms of mound size, obviously bigger is better. I've built mounds by hand, and by Bobcat. Either way, they will keep young trees from drowning. It's a common practice for commercial peach orchards around here to plant trees in terraces, to get them up out of the flood zone. This is preferable to mounds because it takes longer for the terraces to wash down vs. mounds. However most hobby growers would be disagreeable to terracing their yards. Nevertheless mounds can be maintained by adding organic matter to them in the summer. This will protect them from washing away, and add volume, while helping to maintain moisture. Still, you'll want to monitor your soil moisture in the dry part of summer to make sure your trees get a drink if they need it. If your digging an hole and if fills up with water, you have the same problems I've had, and except for pears, and some select apple and cherry rootstocks, you need to keep your trees out of that standing water.

I replanted them just a few inches above ground. I think things will be fine, im going to elevate the peach a little bit and a few of the other trees a few inches. I just worry a lot, I have already tried this once with a lot of Autumn Ridge stock and want to make sure im doing this right this time. I have decided to replace every tree I got from them. They were transplanted to other areas around my property so I am still hoping they work out but dont want to to waste any more years on them.

I am planting the peaches around my exsisting peach trees, some will be in soil just a little more wet. I just get all worried. When I said standing water there is a just a little bit in the low spots, not graded very good, and that will dry up in May or June. A lot of area drains into my yard and I have plans to improve the drainage ditches this summer.

I know I have to fence, I already have some trees from Walmart and Sams Club fenced in(Their trees are actually doing very well, got my first apple, a Cortland, from one last year in just its second year). I use 4ft welded wire from tractor supply, cut it into 18'-20' sections and make cages about 6 ft diameter, they have work well so far.