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fabaceae_native

I'm giving up on Pawpaw, Hardy Kiwi... what has failed for you?

fabaceae_native
12 years ago

Well, I've finally admitted that some fruiting plants (pawpaw, hardy kiwi, ume) are not worth the effort. I'm not saying that they're impossible to grow in my area, but they certainly don't seem to thrive. I'd love to be shown otherwise, from someone else's experience, but so far, I've not heard of these plants being grown at all in my area.

Another category of plants thrive, but don't necessarily function as fruiting plants, ie., they rarely set fruit. For me, apricot is almost in this category because of late spring frosts, but I love these too much to forego them. Fig is definitely a disappointment in this way. The three plants I have in the ground have survived subzero winters with no protection, and come back nicely each spring, but have never set a single fruit.

What are some of the things you've tried that don't seem to work where you are?

Comments (20)

  • denninmi
    12 years ago

    Mostly things that I really shouldn't try to grow in the first place -- Che fruit survived the first winter, but was gnawed to oblivion last winter by voles. Figs have much the same issue, although last year they were fantastic because it was so hot, but many years they don't ever ripen. Both of my hybrid persimmons Nikita's Gift and Rossenyanka (or whatever) didn't make last winter, either.

  • Scott F Smith
    12 years ago

    Sweet cherries are on the verge of failing: cracking, rot, birds, canker, mildew, deer, aphids. Vinifera grapes had too many diseases. Cranberries all got burnt to nothing in the summer heat. Hardy kiwi are going soon, my kids don't like their taste (even though they are very easy to grow and are finally fruiting). Pawpaw only I like to eat but they are in a shady spot where nothing else could go and require no attention so I am just going to keep them. Red currants are greatly inferior to the blacks to me so they may not last much longer. Easy to grow though. Rhubarb I keep having to re-plant since it gets a root rot in my hotter climate; I'm on round 4 or 5 now and this may be the last. Che fruit keeps dropping after nine years, I may need to graft on a male or give up on it.

    Scott

  • northwoodswis4
    12 years ago

    I've tried peaches on three different occasions. All three trees winterkilled (Reliance, PF-24C, Contender). I had nearly given up on blueberries, when I finally had success, thanks to help from Garden Net members. Now I have many bushes covered with berries. Canteloupe is another I won't plant again, after years of failures.
    Northwoodswis

  • ltilton
    12 years ago

    Hardy kiwi died straight off. Blueberries produce so little I just let the birds have them. Nectarines were constantly diseased. Watermelon - I can get better at the store.

  • gonebananas_gw
    12 years ago

    Cornus kousa, "Big Apple" and other selections, that were tried in different years and from different reputable nurseries. All were a few feet tall and well rooted and all declined, withered, and died over the next year or so.

    That was in the right zone. As an experiment in partial shade I tried and failed with gooseberry, current, lingonberry, and cransberry but the failures there were not too surprising.

  • fruithack
    12 years ago

    Hardy kiwis- seven years in and no blossoms. Apricots- too ready to drop entire crop due to cold snaps, not even freezing. Japanese plums like Mariposa and Santa Rosa- more problematic than sweet cherries, Vinifera grapes like Flame and Thompson- too disease prone. All mulberries other than Illinois Everbearing- all suffer in comparison to IE in my z7 location. Blackberries- it's too easy to find and pick wild for free. Blueberries-no variety I tried can deal with the heat.

  • lkz5ia
    12 years ago

    Jujubes are the biggest failure for me. Tried them too many times and always died to the ground because of the winter.

  • mrs_emily
    12 years ago

    Oh don't give up! I came here specifically to ask about growing pawpaw. I'm in zone 8 in southwest Louisiana and apparently pawpaw is a native plant for me. I am going to give it a whirl unless this thread frightens me away! Any reasons in particular why you think your pawpaw failed would be greatly appreciated.

  • fabaceae_native
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Go for it with the pawpaw mrs emily! Mine failed because of my high elevation (nearly 7,000 feet) arid climate with intense sunlight. Most gardeners within it's native range find it to be very easy to grow (although they say it should be hand-pollinated to get fruit). The variety "Mango" is from Georgia and supposedly the most vigorous.

    As far as hardy kiwi, I thought my climate was to blame, but I'm seeing alot of problems with it from other parts of the country. It's somehow reassuring to know that others are going out on a limb with these plant trials, even if failure is quite possible.
    Thanks for the responses so far...

  • gonebananas_gw
    12 years ago

    Ignore all advice to plant pawpaw in full sun. Put it in partial shade. You need two, but try at least three, and don't be surprised at losing one. Certain of the northern pawpaws from farther west (e.g., "Sunlower") are reputed to be even more trouble prone in southern states so avoid them. I (and others) would advise starting with "Overleese" and "Mango" at these hot latitudes (and as I say, maybe another one or two. They can be planted close together. With my casual but now decade-plus experience, I would think the best options are beneath the open partial shade of pines. After some years, the pawpaws might tolerate or even benefit by removing more of the shading. Continuous mulch seems to help too.

  • gonebananas_gw
    12 years ago

    "Mango" was selected in Georgia but apparently came from Pennsylvania seed. Nevertheless, it is a fast-growing and very good eating large pawpaw that does as well as any in the south. My "Overleese" eventually caught up and is outpacing the "Mango" in growth though, and that with a bit less mulching and fertilizing to boot. It is, however, in full sun far less of the day.

  • franktank232
    12 years ago

    Nothing has really failed, but I will say after growing sweet cherries, sour cherries are for the birds. I'm getting rid of all of them I have left. Apricots, plums, apples and pears all do very well here (outside the constant battle with pests), but peaches are very iffy and I will probably remove all of them in the ground this fall and continue to grow them in large pots.

  • fabaceae_native
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    It's amazing what a difference climate can make. I noticed the comments about peaches in this thread, as well as the general comments regarding fruit tree pests and disease.

    Where I am, peach trees thrive without pest control and produce as long as there is no late spring cold snap. Others such as apricots, apples, pears, and pie cherries, seem to do similarly well (except for the ever present codling moth with the apples). Only sweet cherries and some plums seem to be somewhat bothered by pests and disease here .

    Oh, by the way northwoodswis4, my peach and nectarine trees survived a very unusual record-breaking -23 degrees this past winter! Only one 3-year tree that had volunteered from seed was killed. Though I guess there's a difference between a single night of zone 4 weather and that kind of cold on a more regular basis.

  • northwoodswis4
    12 years ago

    Fabaceae, We routinely get -23 F. for several days in a row, and have gotten as low as -34 F. several years. More typical is a max low of around -27 or so most winters. Northwoodswis

  • franktank232
    12 years ago

    Not to mention the peach leaf curl is beyond bad around here. We get a lot of cold wet rain in the spring and PLC thrives. I had a tree that lost almost every single leaf this past spring.

    Sooner or later we get a -30F and everything gets smoked.. we are due for that kind of cold. Hot summers (like this)=cold winters.

  • frugalgardener
    12 years ago

    I have given up on blueberries. I can't keep them alive let alone get them to grow bigger. There are a dozen pick-your-own blueberry farms within 20 miles of me. It's easier to let someone else grow them for me and to use my space for other plants.

  • Greg
    6 years ago

    I am really considering giving up on pawpaws. I have one seedling tree that is 6-7 years old and just over 5 ft tall it is doing ok but it has taken it so long to grow. The problem is that for what ever reason I cannot keep a grafted tree alive. I've tried NC-1, Potomac and Wabash. They always fail after a few years and now I am another 4 years out for a potential pollinator. I bought a Wabash back in 2014 that was growing like a weed. We had a late frost that burned off all of the leaves but like a champ it came back and grew like crazy just to die that winter. It's roots sprouted and grew nicely the next summer as well as up till today, it was about 3.5 feet tall when a micro burst blew it over right at ground level. I was so mad I chopped up it's remains with a shovel and the ran them over with the lawn mower. I had hoped it would flower in the next year or two. In 2015 I bought a Potomac and it has been in a steady decline ever since, it is almost dead now. It had lots of flowers on it in 2016, 1 flower this year and now no flower buds on it for next year. I do have 2 other seedlings from Peterson fruit that are doing good but they are only in their second season and years away from making flowers. I just don't know if I can dedicate the space and time anymore to fruit trees that are so unproductive. As a comparison my Elberta peach is a good 12ft tall and wide and it is the same age as my oldest pawpaw. I am really considering just going out and chopping them all down. On a side note I have started watering them a more than I did in the past and their growth rate has increased substantially especially on the old seedling. Sorry I just had to vent and I will probably will keep them but this has definitely been an exercise in patience.

  • nmfruit
    6 years ago

    I have definitely had similar frustrations, between the winter cold, late freezes, gophers, and stinking aridity, I have unfortunately further limited what I attempt to grow beyond what this original post mentions (yes, this is fab_native with my new name as of the houzz takeover).

    I'm focusing more now on the things that taste really good, do very well, and tend to be pricey and/or poor quality in the store. I just wish that could include things like pawpaw but unfortunately it is limited to things like raspberries, peaches, jujubes, and mulberries in my area.

  • eastmeetwest
    6 years ago

    Greg,

    Where are you? Pawpaw seems to be native to the mid Atlantic area and further south. There are people in the mid west who grow pawpaw successfully. Look like they like a hot, humid area. They don't seem to do well in a hot, dry, arid condition.

  • raee_gw zone 5b-6a Ohio
    6 years ago

    Pawpaw is fairly prolific in the woods around here and definitely stays out of full sun -- it is an understory tree, although where I see it is at the edges of paths and clearings, so I don't know if it grows farther into the woods The wild ones that I see are not big producers of fruit either, but these are native trees, not hybrids.