Connie, there are people who say that the RRD is not caused by the mite as most of us believe, but it is due to using Round Up or a similar product.

I have read so much of what has been written about this condition, but what bothers me is the time element.

Once we see the growth, does it mean that the mite attacked within a couple of months? Does it mean that Round Up was used by me or a neighbor? I find it difficult to try to think back to when the rose would have been vulnerable, and try to make a decision as to what it was.

In other words if a mite attacks the rose, it must penetrate the rose, influence the growth, and the rose must grow. How long does it take to go through the rose, and once it damages whatever it damages, how long does it take to see the damage. If the answer is 4-6 months whether it be the mite or Round Up, then what was I doing? What company did my neighbor hire to spray?

If I don't remove my rose, then the mite could possibly invade my other roses, but possibly I am removing a good rose that got some droplets of Round Up.

Around here there are quite a few Consulting Rosarians who think there really is no mite that can have this effect.

Also I wonder how much good it does to spray Wilt Pruf. I know an excellent rosarian who does this and feels she has excellent results.

Sammy

Round Up damage can appear to be RRD, but it is very different. While RU damage causes wispy and stunted growth, RRD usually presents with over growth of canes and thorns and witches brooms. They are very different. What sometimes happens is that people have RU damage and think it's RRD because it's 'weird' looking. But if you really have RRD, you know it's very weird.

I had RRD (I'm very sure) on 2 roses years ago, before I was on GW and knew what it was. I thought it was PM but it just would not be controlled. I finally got rid of the roses when spring came and they started out as funky looking as they were the year before. I guess my instincts were good. I didn't take pictures but plenty of people here have.

I do have pictures of RU damage, and have become quite familiar with it. I have use RU near my roses a lot, so I know when I see it what causes it.

I agree that when you are familiar with both RRD and RU damage, it is usaully easy to make a call on what is it.
I don't ever use RU and got multiple cases of RRD in my garden. My sister who also doesn't use RU has RRD cases each year. I lost close to a dozen roses during last 5-6 years. I can't explain it well, but when you see obvious case of RRD it gives you creeps. It is so obviously wrong, you almost get sick. Here in MD RRD became very wide spread approx 7-8 years ago. It used to be a lot of multiflora along the roads, creeks, in the parks when we moved to MD in 1996. When RRD started its run it was like fire here. In two years almost all multiflora patches were infected and started slowly dying. It was really sad to drive around, you could see RRD everywhere. About the same time first cases appeared in my garden. Now most of multiflora infected areas are gone. I had a big multiflora area behind my house along the creek. I saw this area move from healthy multiflora to RRD infected and finally dying sad place, almost like in a horror movie . There are other weeds growing along the creek now. Basically no multiflora at all.
I have several roses now in my garden that showed obvious signs of RRD. I cut the infected canes to the ground and hope to save the plants, but this is just a hope. Theses are my most precious roses, Lady Hilligdon, Yolade de Aragon and Albas Semiplena.
Olga

I usually cut mine, but this year I cut out one, and left the other. I did as you said, and cut the barely infected cane way back.

So is the difference that the newer cane, possibly 4 feet from the ground, will be much larger than the cane it originated from?

Is it true that the larger growth does not happen with Round Up, but with RRD?

Sammy

buford, can you send me photos of your Round Up damage. These will be great for me to have!

Olga, not RRD on your Lady Hillingdon? I know how much you enjoy this rose, and I am so sorry to hear this.

Sammy, with RRD I have almost never found a case that is so subtle that it required great thought about its diagnosis ... it is never just ONE thing that leads me to the decision that an infected rose is RRD vs. Round-up, but a combination of symptoms. I have a great photo of Round Up damage that I found on my Sombruiel, but I can't locate it on my computer right now ... grrrrr. It shows perfectly the characteristics of RU damage of thready growth and twisted leaves, and I know for a FACT that it's Round-up ... because I'm the one that got a little bit careless with the sprayer in that spot just a few weeks before while I was spraying weeds.

The larger caliper growth you talk about is ONE symptom of RRD that MAY contribute to diagnosis, but it can also happen on perfectly healthy roses that are growing happily ... my Jean Guichard (wichurana rambler) scared the crap out of me this summer with a cane that was larger than I thought it should be that was growing from another cane, but it turned out to be perfectly normal. I did what I council others to do ... if you're not sure, wait and see what happens. In this case, the cane grew out perfectly normally, and I expect that it will flower beautifully in May.

Here are a few examples of RRD that I photographed this year.

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This is an unknown OGR. I noticed this while winter pruning in a garden recently. I removed this cane at the ground, and I tied a piece of survey tape to the rose to mark it for observation this spring when it breaks dormancy.

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This is an infected stand of roses outside a Best Buy store in Central Park in Fredericksburg, Virginia (I have notified the management of the problem, and they blew me off.) See how the growth is concentrated, and thorny, and contorted and large? This is advanced disease, and it's been there for a while.

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This is in the same location, in a nearby rose. What I found fascinating about this one is that the growth is a completely different color and it is almost thornless on most of the diseased canes. It's the same variety as the rose #2 above, a small-flowered dark red landscape rose of some sort, and the disease manifested itself a little differently in this rose.

GW folks are a bit more educated about this than most. A month or so ago, when I was talking to another rosarian, I mentioned that I was working on a program about Rose Rosette Disease. Her response was, "Rose What Disease?" Many rose gardeners are unaware that the weird growth on their roses is something to be concerned about ... I hope to change this for as many folks as I can.

Can we bring this thread back to its original intent. As of now, my program only contains stories and photos that I have gathered in person. I know there are others that will be good to include, especially from folks in other parts of the country. If we want to talk about RRD and diagnosis and treatment, can we start another thread to do that or search and bring up all the other ones that are here. (If anyone wants to discuss this privately with me, just shoot me an email.) RRD is scary, and this program I'm working on is (hopefully) going to empower rose growers with education and images ... to help replace the fear they feel with information and a plan of action, and maybe help them breathe a little easier.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ann Peck's RRD e-book ... Have You Read This Yet?

Connie, here are some of the pics. I will also email them to you:

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This was my Reve d'Or, which is a big as a house now. I had sprayed RU nearby and a few weeks later saw this. I cut the canes off and after a few weeks it was fine.

Roundup damage on my Aptos looked just like Buford's first photo. Tiny, skinny little leaves. Didn't even cut it off, because it was a young plant and tiny leaves making food were better than no leaves. It's fine now.

THANK YOU!!! It is wonderful to have such great photos for comparison, all in the same thread!

Connie

You know how Olga said "when you see it, you feel sick"....I seriously became nauseated and had to sit down when I saw that I had RRD on my beautiful Penelope. I felt sick, really sick, in an instant. I knew it was RRD and it showed up on 4 more roses in the next month.

Last fall was rough....I fear the spring.

Ronda

Yes, I have had RRD in my garden too and I'm sure it wasn't round-up. There is some parkland bordering my neighborhood and I have seen wild multiflora in the parkland get the disease and slowly die from it, it took about 2 years for a large bush to die off. I have lost about 8 bushes from it in the past few years, usually attacks the largest and climbing climbing roses.

Not yet, thankfully, but sure plagued with other problems.

I took all my pages down but hope to put some of them back up when I can retrieve my data from backup and buy some more space on my server.

You were the one who identified my Shailor's Provence. I'll be eager to see how some fared the winter in the spring, as many of mine weren't established well yet. I had to have my huge tree cut down as well as my lilac and apricot tree, lost my apple tree due to a huge limb falling on it, also lost one cherry tree from same, so I'll have plenty more sun in the backyard. But it grieved me to lose my huge tree and the nice dappled shade.

And I'm fed up with trying to plant around them and other problems and am going to shovel prune or give away most of my repeat bloomers. It's more rewarding and easier (and cheaper) for me to grow perennials.