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Posted by ilovemytrees 5b/6a Western, NY (My Page) on
Mon, Jan 6, 14 at 10:07

It's going to be swallowed completely up in the snow.
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Not a bad thing as long as it doesn't get bent down. Snow insulates from the frigid cold.

Two words - cold duration. Lows in themselves don't mean anything. Its how cold for how long. Orange groves can be in the teens for 4 hours before fruit will freeze and even longer before tree damage.

In addition are you using USDA zones (which are mainly for plants) or Arborday zones (which are for trees)?

I am borderline 6b-7a SW Missouri, USDA 6b and Arborday 7a

We were at zero degrees from 2am until 4:30 am then -1 for 2 hours then -4 for 1 hour then -6 for an hour, then sunrise and rebounded to -1 for an hour then zero for 2 and above 4 degrees then to 11 degrees for rest of day.

So even though the we fell below zone 7a temps 0-5 above for a few hours, it wasn't long enough to do any damage. Tomorrow near 40. So a one day blast for a few hours is totally different from let's say Chicago in border 5b-6a that was below zero -15 low and -11 high for 24 hours plus the next day below zero all day again.

Or if you hit zero for 5 days in a row and don't get above 5 degrees (even though that technically qualifies for zone 7a) it's far far worse than hitting -5 for a couple hours for 1 night. My zone 7 Crepe Myrtles will have no problem with the temps as well as other borderline trees and plants.

Yes, go Seahawks! Only team left for me to route for.
As you can imagine I'm a big RW fan.

We'll finally get above 0 by noon on Wednesday. The 30s coming up this weekend are looking real nice!

It is cold enough I have my gloves on all the time and haven't taken any cell phone photos of the snow cover! I might have to power up the old digital camera lok.

My Thujas have a bit of browning going on. The Ilex whatevers seem unimpressed. Tough to tell with the deciduous trees.

Just my Live oak "late drop" seedlings. We have had -5F last night -5F so far tonight, but is supposed to be -10F eventually tonight. And -5F tomorrow as a low. I have a Q. Fusiformis that may get damaged. I will look at them Wednesday, when we should be in the 20's. It all is just within the zone 6 temps. We are having harsh winds too. I haven't covered anything but one palm tree, if the live oaks are going to live here for years they need to take these temps occasionally. Oh, Duh, the palm trees, and hardy banana.

They called for 2ft of snow for my specific area, and we didn't even get 1 inch of snow!

In fact, the high gusty winds, because of their direction, blew most of the snow out of my back yard!

Where there was 2ft of snow around my golden raintree and my shrubs, today, there is NONE.

Late this morning they still had their snow warning for us, even though the skies were bright blue and the sun was out, not a cloud in the sky. It was gorgeous! People all around my area on social media were blasting them for their over-hyping our area for snow. It's ridiculous!

Now Buffalo is getting socked with snow, for once! The I90 is shut down from PA to northern NY all day and evening, driving bans everywhere.

This post was edited by ilovemytrees on Tue, Jan 7, 14 at 15:49

My "late drop" live oaks look okay, well, the 2 nearest to the house. My Magnolia Grandifolia looks unaffected, as does the Bracken's brown beauty, they aren't really marginal (mags) but I added that. I am happily surprised by the Late drops being foliated still, but there will be -5F tonight yet.

-4F yesterday morning & breezy (good thing). What was surprising that the sun was out & the temp still barely moved -- hardly above 0F at noon. Today not so bad....

It was below zero from 7pmish on Sunday and just today Wednesday around 11am it went above zero. That was a brutal stretch no matter how you cut it.

Yes, cold, but not, as the news/weather dopes are putting it, anything like unprecedented. I remember back in '94 or '96, whenever it was, a day where the high temp was 20 below 0 (Farenheit). That was a cold stretch. To hear these folks yabber on, you'd think this was some kind of new phenomenon.

Incidentally, one or two of you may be reading this and thinking that, well, new low temp records are being broken, so this must be a new thing......but please do realize that new temp records, whether high or low, are routinely broken for any given date. IOWs, within a completely "average" or "normal" year, there will be individual days/nights wherein new record low or high temps will occur. Together, these then go into making up the average for that given year or otherr timespan.

Those idiots on TV and radio are completely out of hand with all their stammering. I can't believe how stupid and wussified we're becoming!

+oM

No surprise there. The media's goal is to sensationalize weather events to increase viewer ship.

Certainly doesn't change how cold it was. '96 is the year we last had a cold snap like this. I believe '82 was the prior one to that. Look at it this way, you may only see a cold snap similar in nature 4-6 times in your lifetime.

I have to say weather is certainly one of my peeves to complain about. No shocker there! Can't say I think too much about it outside this forum unless there is a drought. That is a time killer for me.

Here are the lows from the past 5 days.

-8
-18 (-50 wind chill)
-17
-13
-15

I'm curious how my little Coast Redwood (Sequoia sempervirens) in New Jersey will end up after winter is over. Its done fine the previous 4 winters, but this winter has gotten a couple degrees colder (1, versus 3 degrees back in 2011) and also featured a really extreme temperature drop (57 degrees Monday morning to 3 degrees Tuesday morning). I presume the Giant Sequoia (Sequoiadendron giganteum) I also have planted nearby will be alright.

Well, we did have -10F right on the button on Tues eve-Wed morn, and my 2 closest to the house Live oak "late drop" have made it fine in true zone 6 for 2 1/2 days. One looks just slightly rough, but fully foliated with buds that look like they are fine, although small. The other one in the back yard has tan leaf edges on about 1/4 of the lower leaves, but otherwise great. I am glad so far that I did the zone pushing with these live oaks, Q. Fusiformis look like 1/2 the leaves are gone.

For all the hysterics, locally at least, winter has not been that bad. It was 72 degrees F. a few days before Christmas, then there was a snowstorm, then the "Polar Vortex", bringing a minimum of 5 above. Today, is 60 with heavy rain and tomorrow sounds delightful--sunny and clear around 50. The cold, when it is here, seems very short-lived, then are a very mild periods. As much as I hate the cold, I can live with this. Japanese fan palms went through the vortex just fine too.

Hey, I took and uploaded these 2 pictures, I may as well post them here. Taken today Jan 14, 2014, my 2 oldest Live oak "late drop" in zone 6 Pa. This is winter #2 for these 2 trees: {{gwi:325163}} {{gwi:325164}} Not too bad for Live oak in Pa zone 6, huh? I shouldn't get too confident, right?

" Isn't your all time record low around 15 degrees?"

Nowhere in the PNW has all-time record lows that mild except for the coastal parts of SW Oregon that are currently rated zn 9. You can just get such enormous domes of cold air there...the ones that do manage to cross the Cascades. Seattle's all time record low is 0F.

Overall damage at 3F was not as bad as it might have been. For one thing, most of the East coast came into it from relatively cool conditions. We didn't have a long mild stretch as happened in some of the famous freezes of the 20th century, like the one in the late 70s that killed almost all the camellias at the National Arboretum. Yes, there was a very brief mild period between the freezes but not enough to wake plants up.

A December or February freeze is often more damaging than January - in December, some plants may not be 100% dormant yet, and in February, their chilling requirements are usually met, so any bit of warm weather before the cold snap can quickly deharden them.

David, I was being sarcastic.

The record low recorded for Seattle is 11 degrees set in Feb 1989.

Not surprisingly it's hard to find NOAA stations with long periods of record in the young Pacific Northwest.

0F is correct for Seatac Airport, which is the current official station for Seattle.

The figure you cite is a downtown station with a shorter period of record.

Oldest downtown figures are at the University, since 1909. All time low there is 5F in 1939.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/cgi-bin/cliMAIN.pl?wa7478

I'll be making an unscheduled trip back east this coming week so I'll check out the Sequoia sempervirens and post back.

Up here in NW ontario, its been cold. The coldest december in 32 years. Its decieving though because the last 20 years have been so warm. Although it was that cold we werent shattering records every day.

The bonus was that even though it was a long fall again, the cold settled in rather then hammering us, which means that by the time it got real cold the plants were already dormant. Recorded temp was -39C at the airport, proably closer to -30C in my yard. New years eve had a windchill of -55C.

This is a lot closer to the winters I remember as a kid. We have amazing snow cover this year. Probably close to 4 feet

My zone 7 rated Live oak "late drop" are still hanging on in several (2 or 3) below zero nights and very cold daytimes, so far. We are possibly going to go into -12F soon. This will be zone 5 temps. It may not go that low, but is forecasted to do so. My "late drops' have still got nice buds and still are holding their tannish, burgundy leaves. I am hoping they keep healthy buds til spring, and do great next growing season. Hope that isn't too much to ask.

How are others faring this winter? I am excited about my Live oaks not dying and defoliating yet, but, how are other folks in zone 5,6,7 doing? It will be BRUTAL for the next 7 or8 days at least.

Redwood (Sequoia sempervirens) in NJ has been through multiple days with highs below 20 and lows below 10. Coldest night had a low of -1, coldest day had a high of 11. Its foliage is a bit tinged but still mostly green, but really it won't be til after we're out of the deep freeze before I will have a sense of what damage may have occurred.

I won't be able to tell until late April and May. However I've observed burning on many pines for example P. parviflora and bosnian pine. Doesn't mean the buds are cashed though.

My main concern is root damage. Snow cover just blows (pun?) because of how windy its been. I can see the damn mulch in several areas of my yard.

Here are Dec and Jan zero or below zero temps. Granted these will be put into two different years but we average 9 days below zero. We're at 25 and still have the entire month of Feb and even March for that matter to go. Generally speaking most of these lows are 20-30 degrees lower than average. Its been sunny and windy on these days too boot.

PNW here I come!

0
-4
-8
-6
-5
-2
-7
-10
-13
-1
-7
-14
-8
-18
-17
-9
-14
-6
-4
-4
-6
-9
-20
-14
-5

> Here are Dec and Jan zero or below zero temps. Granted
> these will be put into two different years but we average 9
> days below zero. We're at 25 and still have the entire month
> of Feb and even March for that matter to go.

No that's alright to do that. Since you can run the cold season July 1 to June 30, its really identical to the January 1 to December 31 average.

Farm, looks like you're right...low and behold I see an article on the front page that with the upcoming forecast this week, Milwaukee will see the most sub zero days since the winter of 80-81'.

Still getting slammed here in Pa with some bellow zero's and singles and a few teens and twenties. This is cold we haven't seen for 30 years. I think my Live oaks are ok, the foliage is still on amazingly, the evergreen Mags are still foliated.

Poaky,

If they can survive this, they can survive anything.
My live oaks have their leaves on too.

Joe,
Good to hear yours are holding up. I don't know exactly what you have been getting, but I have been -3 to -6 a number of times. Everything seems to be OK, but beginning to wonder if the Oklahoma redbud flowers will be toasted this year. Funny thing is with it being subzero and single digits about a third of the nights, we still have lots of bulbs poking their heads us. Strange.

Arktrees

Arktrees,

been pretty lucky, 8 degrees low on the 28th and 10 tonight (29th), no below zero except those 2 nights a few weeks ago with the arctic jet moving south, and then for only a few hours per night.

Hopefully this is it as a huge jet stream split is suppose to occur and we are suppose to be on the warm half.

Joe,
I may be wrong, but I don't believe we are done yet with the winter weather. It will probable get less cold, but there still seems to be plenty of hints of continuing north flow in the long range models. Of course those are subject to change. I know most everyone in the east is tired of the cold. Not much you can do about it???

Hate to say it, but 10-15 is not feeling that bad any more. Was 10 at my house last night by 8PM. Ended up at a steady 1 for several hours overnight. The temp CRASHES due to being in a valley, when the sun goes down in winter. Sometimes temp will fall 5-8 degrees in 15 minutes.

Arktrees

0F again here. This is not dissimilar to Jan 1977 -- endless clippers out of the Canadian arctic w/little precip (all snow). Also drought in the west and Alaska mild. Nasty pattern & in 1977 led to dry weather thru the entire yr.

Good point, beng. That was a few months before I was born, but I've read about it.

I'm really hoping it's not a dry summer though...it seems the last 5 years, even when we've had sufficient annual precip, we always have a long, bone-dry period in summer (not necessarily a full on drought).

The cold continues unabated. Takes a while to load/run:

Here is a link that might be useful: Next 2 weeks NA forecast

We are finally warming up pretty good. Twenties, thirties and (gasp) some 40's. We have gone -9 about 3 times, but I think -9 was the worst in my yard. I saw some ornamentals at my doctors office with plump buds, and one of m y rhodies has a tiny one inch flush of new growth, and plumped buds. One live oak has let go of some top leaves, maybe about 8, and the buds are bigger than the "still leaved" ones, but not quite plumped, maybe just more visible with no leaves. The Live oak buds wouldn't have me worried if it weren't for the Rhody3 ft away having growth and fat buds. I am hoping I am wrong about those buds, we haven't warmed enough for that to really happen, it's still dark by 6:45 PM.

I noticed that my Magnolia grandifolia has brown under the leaves, and last year they were green. The tops are still green though. I bought the Bracken's BB, to get the brown undersides, and now I see the wild EG Mag has it now.

Out of the last 117 winters, there are only 11 winters colder than this one thus far.

Lets see what Feb brings us. Not a good start...a sampling of the next 10 days.

1, -7, -8, -5, -2, 0

42 days of sub zero weather is the all time record.

We'll be at 28 after the forecast above.

Punxsutawney Phil saw his shadow this morning, so we have six more weeks of this!

I hope you didn't putting any stock into Farmer's Almanac and Phil's accuracy, lol.

FA = 50% correct (generally speaking)
Phil = 39% correct

I predict spring comes early since winter rolled in so early. How is that for a coin flip!

Getting a little OT here, but they aren't exactly truthful with whether he saw his shadow or not. I went one year and it wasn't sunny, but they said he saw his shadow. I was like, "huh???"

Climatologically speaking, he would probably not see his shadow most of the time since that part of Pennsylvania is cloud most of the winter. So I guess they have to fib a little to make it interesting.

The thing about whether "groundhogs" see their shadows or not that I find most amusing/pointless....take your pick, is that here in sconnie, there's always at least 6 weeks of winter weather at this point. It would be a magically early spring if that weren't so....just as predictions from sources like FA, etc. are also completely useless, in that they ascribe a certain prediction to a much too-large geographic area to have any meaning. Complete and utter bunk.

+oM

Keeping fingers crossed that our fall 2013 planted Deodar Cedar Aurea and Dynamite Crepes, planted 3 years ago make it. the CM's have a western exposure, the Cedar is Northeast.

Our temps aren't too bad now, but we are getting snow dumped on us pretty good. I don't mind that as much as the arctic cold crap. We had it in the fifties last weekend.

Poaky1, did you all fair well with that ice storm last week, or did it miss ya?

Update to my earlier post re the Deodar Cedar. Not looking too good. More pronounced on the top half. If it had to happen might as well be in its first year planted.

Deodars can sometimes lose most or all needles and recover, however, being newly planted makes that less likely.

If it's any consolation on the Cedrus front...my stenocoma and Karl Fuchs look awesome right now. No needle burn at all. My hollies (I. pedunculosa & opaca) have slight leaf damage but my 7 year old M. bealei is in rough shape.

For context, we have not had a day above 32F since the 1st week of January and have had multiple windy nights with lows of -15F. Lots of snow is (fortunately) keeping all the roots well insulated.

"Deodars can sometimes lose most or all needles and recover, however, being newly planted makes that less likely."

I sure hope this is the case with my Cream Puff. It lost many of its needles by the end of the growing season and lost the remaining needles this winter. I have left it planted to see what happens with it this spring. I should have given it shade cloth last year to protect from intense afternoon sun. I won't make that mistake again.

Jonqpublic, and anyone else. We had lots of snow and cold, I didn't see a lot of ice on things, but I would say it was freezing temps sometimes, but then one day we had it slushy for one afternoon before the evening froze it all again. Today, I took pics of my 2 older Live oaks, the 2 year olds that I posted above. My most borderline plus some, plants. The bigger one has brown leaves, but they are still attached. The second tree has it's leaves still, and they are less brown, but still pretty ugly. I am happy they have done as good as they have in this horrible and NOT OVER winter. {{gwi:325165}} {{gwi:325166}} I took the second pic from the porch with the zoom, but with the snow you can see it good enough. After today we will be getting single digits at night and 20's in the day for the next 3 days/nights. Then 20's and 30's after . I would say this winter makes me say zone 6 is fine for these Live oak "late drop". If they last the rest of the winter, which I think they will.