The company that probably has the greatest variety of rare old roses is Vintage Gardens, although they've had to cut back somewhat. I've ordered from them many times and have always been completely satisfied. They have an impeccable reputation. The same can be said of the Antique Rose Emporium in Texas and Chamblee's, also in Texas. Rogue Valley Roses in Oregon is another vendor to consider.

Ingrid

If you're up for a road trip, you're in for a treat. Cliff Orent operates EuroDesert Roses out in Morongo Valley. I was there for the Mother's Day open house and had a great time. If you would like to go visit, Cliff just likes a call ahead so that he will be there. Of course, you can also order online!

As with most bands, they are small by definition, but the ones I got were WELL rooted and ready to GO! He also had some larger sizes for sale at the open house, I dunno what he has now.

Last month not all the roses were in bloom but should be now. The HPs in the display garden were all in bloom as were many others including the species roses around the perimeter. Each type of rose has a large display area.

In addition, he has many roses imported from Europe that are not offered elsewhere in the U.S. As with any rose grower that is not a 'big box' operation, not all will be in production at one time.

Finally, if you are in need of perennials for your border, you might consider some of the absolutely stunning small floribundas that Cliff has for sale now. I fell in love with them from his last couple of newsletters. The ones that I brought home that were in bloom were large singles that stayed bright and held their petals for over the following week. I picked up Daisy O, The Impressionist, Anne-Aymone Giscard d'Estaing, Dancing Pink, Mrs. Robinson, Night Sky, Rosarian Gregg Lowery, and Wild Rover. Many of these were introduced by Cliff, himself.

If you would like to know more about his roses, you can go to HMF, click on the Nurseries link in the frame to the left and type in EuroDesert. When that page loads up, click the Plants for Sale tab on the top.

Here's another vote for EuroDesert Roses.

Other than Cliff Orent's Euro-Desert Roses, I know of NO rose nursery in Southern CA propagating and offering Old Roses. Cliff's imaginative imports have really broadened the list of what is available to us. In particular, he offers some magnificent Polyanthas -- and of course, for those a little more inland than I am, Hybrid Perpetuals. And there's a lot more.

The next-closest is Vintage Gardens, up Petaluma way, and after that it's probably Rogue Valley Roses, up in OR.

We have lost so many fine vendors of Old and Rare roses, I feel strongly about supporting the ones we have left to us.

Jeri

I just have to say that I ordered 2 roses from EuroDesert Roses and was unhappy with the size given the cost of the bands. They were VERY VERY small, like I remember what you'd get from Heirloom in Oregon, which is why I stopped ordering from them. I will now think twice before ordering from Eurodesert again. I just wish growers would give us a break and grow their bands to a larger size. I must say that most of the bands I've received from Vintage have been ready to put into gallon pots.

As Jeri said, it's important to support our antique rose vendors but the vendors also have a responsibility to us to provide quality roses that have a chance of surviving in less than optimum conditions like mine.

Diane

I most often order from Vintage Gardens in Sebastopol, though I have purchased roses form Euro Desert and Rogue Valley as well. The bands from Rogue and Euro were very small and one has not survived so far. That said, the other bands are hanging in and I have high hopes. All of the bands I get from Vintage are big and well grown and I rarely have any problem with their bands. Also, the selection at Vintage is hard to beat. All of these vendors are worth utilizing, but my favorite is Vintage.

Here is a link that might be useful: Vintage Gardens

Wow! So much great information to digest. I would LOVE to take a road trip and visit a nursery that sells unique roses. I am actually due for one as I will be going away for a few days for my anniversary. I think a serious rose garden has to incorporate Old Garden Roses. Its unfortunate that there are so few vendors.

Also, I have to agree I wish the vendors would give us a break and grow the roses to a bigger size. My husband propogates roses differently than the usual way I see them propogated and within the first year, many of his cutting bloom and can be put in big containers. He is not a professional and he can do this. I can't imagine why vendors don't use a different way to cut so that the bands can be bigger.

Its pretty dry and dusty anymore to buy from the online vendors. I guess they had to cut back with the economy bottomed-out like it is. I have real good luck on ebay, you might want to look there.

Good value from Chamblee's in Texas. Though they do not ship in summer due to heat considerations.

You must take the drive to EuroDesert Roses. I had the pleasure last year to take a side trip to EuroDesert Roses when I was in San Diego on business and it was a real treat. I picked two roses to me after I visited and Cliff shipped them back to the east coast for me they are doing great. I just ordered 4 more and I am looking forward to their arrival.

Liz

What pleases me is customer service. OGR mom & pop's defy economic sensibility doing what they do for the love of it and to keep OGRs in production for generations to come.

Of course, if a band fails you should call the vendor and they should replace it. I've done this with a band that I got from Vintage with no problem. Personally, I don't believe in the Home Depot policy where they should be responsible for the plant in my care for a year, so after a reasonable period, I assume responsibility (and usually know what I did wrong).

With respect (honestly), I think much of the, er, 'expectation issues' above are cross-over notions from the years and years we've had ordering (large) bare root roses or buying them locally bagged or potted from multi-beaucoup bucks corporate operations. This is obvious intellectually, but when one goes to buy we start comparing apples to oranges looking at our own cost/value without considering production cost on the other end. Operations like Weeks are big Ag businesses - not only do they average production, they can also average shipping so we all see the same price. They also save by selling mass quantities to the masses. Specialty OGR mom & pop's cannot compete with this business model and are lucky to make a profit let alone a living. They are also lucky to sell enough to even afford employees!!!

Maybe if we all knew about more about how own roots are produced, expectations might change, especially with regard to how long it takes for a slip to become a salable band. Time on the ground in stock is also money as is money and time invested in 'momma' stock and how long it's been able to be amortized. I know I expect to pay more for an aged specialty cheese from a mom and pop than I do cheddar from Kraft and I know why.

My husband had similar questions when we went out to EuroDesert - he didn't understand why Cliff didn't have every single rose he had in production (bless his heart, I think he thought all of these roses should be as popular to the general public as they are to us ;-). I had to explain that smaller operations can only afford to start what they hope to sell in quantity AND variety. If the bands don't sell, when they get root bound they should really be potted up which decreases attractiveness for mail order because shipping costs increase dramatically. Ultimately, you have a bunch of stock you may have to throw away if you can't sell them at discount. And, of course, cuttings are also limited to what the momma plant(s) can offer.

Back to shipping. Cliff is using the new USPS shipping boxes that cost the same no matter what the weight is - this should make his roses equally attractive to folks on the east coast so personally, I think it's a brilliant idea. For those shipping-local to Vintage or RVR on the same coast, the smaller size to fit the box may not be a savings. Otoh, mine from last month are thriving like nobody's business. None of our OGR mom & pop's can please everyone across the country on the individual parameters each operation uses to follow it's shipping model.

Personally, as mentioned in another post, I'm most happy if the bands are well rooted as the top will catch up quickly much more than the other way around. Your mileage may vary.

Nadia, you need to share how your husband propagates. How many plants can he propagate off of one bush?

Given that vending OGRs is a great labor of love and a very poor living and given how willing the vendors are to replace a bad band, I think we owe our vendors a great deal of gratitude and ought to stow the complaints.

If you don't mind paying for the shipping I've bought established 5 gallons and gallons from Rogue Valley Roses.

Hi Nadia. Can't help you with local California info but I can turn you on to a couple of good Texas Nurseries & one in Oregon where you can order online. Antique Rose Emporium in Brenham (TX) has a huge selection of lovely heat-loving roses, all the teas & chinas you could dream of. Chamblees Roses up in Tyler (TX) is another good one, not specializing in antiques but still have quite a few & also a good selection of Griffith Buck roses which do as well in the heat as the cold. They ship in gallon pots though they're done shipping for this season. Heirloom Old Garden Roses in Oregon has some stuff others don't, but not near as much as they used to & they're all fairly young cuttings and expensive. They're mainly into breeding their own these days, it seems. . . I hope you have success closer to home but these are all good sources. Here are the links. Betsy

http://www.antiqueroseemporium.com/

http://www.chambleeroses.com/

http://www.heirloomroses.com/

I just bought 3 more OGRs from Heirloom. I know a lot of people complain about them, but I bought my Barrone Prevosts and a Rose de Rescht from them and they are great plants. Yes they are small, so you keep them in a pot for a few months and then plant them when they are bigger and you have the time/place. I've learned that it's better to be patient and let them grow in your yard.

I've also bought from Vintage, Ashdown and Roses Unlimited with success. I didn't have luck with the one purchase I made with Chamblees. Of 8, 4 didn't survive the winter and 2 I think are the wrong roses.

"2 I think are the wrong roses"

I've not ordered from Chamblee's so I don't have a personal opinion, but did you call them to see what they had to say about the ones that look like the wrong thing?

Reason I ask is that one of my Noella Nabonnand's that I ordered from Vintage had for it's first bloom the most shocking *hot* pink bloom you'd ever want to see (she's supposed to be red). I emailed Gregg about it and he said that sometimes the first blooms aren't quite true to color, to wait a bit and see and then get back to him. (I thought to myself, yeah, right, HA!) Well, much like your parents were always right, so was Gregg, next ones were fine. I would have bet big money (more than my usual nickel) on it, too, so good thing I didn't ;-)

Obviously sometimes there really is a mistake, we're all only human, but it's what your vendor does after that is what makes them great or not.

Obviously sometimes there really is a mistake, we're all only human, but it's what your vendor does after that is what makes them great or not.

*** Someone cast that in bronze, and put it up for everyone to read.
Because that is God's Honest Truth.

Jeri

I totally agree with lagomorphmom and jeri!

When I received a rose from Chamblee's that I thought was mislabelled, I called and the owner answered the phone. He said to give it time (Baron Girod de l'ain was the one in question) because that variety can take a few flushes before it shows the white edge. So I waited even until the next season (the rose I did receive was very fragrant so I was patient!). So I call again a year later and got someone else on the phone. She checks with the owner. He says "I remember her. We don't carry the Baron anymore, but send her a replacement, whatever she wants."

So my experience with Chamblee's has been: very nice customer service to go along with great prices.

Maybe they send the small bands because of what someone said about it being easier to mail than the 5 gallon pots.

lagomorphmom,
I will be taking pictures come fall.. It has to do with cutting at a specific point after certain lines. I don't know really, I wasn't paying attention to how he did it last fall. But this time, I will take pictures because a friend of mine wants a tutorial and I promised her the pics. Hopefully if I am still doing my blog I will post them there and you can learn his way. Its his dad's way. We were very successful with it this year. Like I said, I didn't expect them to bloom so fast and a few of them bloomed already.