Are they actually blooming the correct roses or rootstock?

Hi. The roses are own-root, so yes they are blooming the correct rose.

After my post, I studied the bushes again. There is no absolutely sign of bug damage, or something eating new growth. I see where I pruned off the first flush, then nothing has happened since, the plants are exactly the same, while my other roses are on their 3rd flush and have put out plenty of new growth.

I tried to search for "small rose leaves "as a way that I might diagnose their problem, but I found no info.

Thank you for any help you can give. : )

My rose leaves get small when they don't have enough water. Could that be a problem?

It sounds like rose midge but its odd that they are not infesting the other roses nearby. Check the growing points where the new growth should be emerging and compare to your healthy roses. You should see a little swelling or tiny new leaves or buds forming. We are talking stuff that almost needs a magnifying glass to see. With midge you will see that the growing points are just gone, eaten away. You might see a tiny dried up wisp where a leaf or bud tried to form. You will probably not see any midge. You will not see any other obvious signs of midge damage. The treatment is to spray the roses with imidclopterid (sp?) which is the stuff in the Bayer insect control products. Spray the roses and the ground around them. Spraying the ground is most important because you want to get the midge when its in the ground. Unfortunately, there is no organic or less toxic control for midge. Many of the pictures/descriptions of midge damage on the internet are incorrect. Midge damage is very subtle, almost microscopic. The good news is I find that one spray in May is enough to control midge for the growing season. The bad news is that the spray is very hard on worms and bees and may make spider mites worse,

Another thing occurs to me. Are you fertilizing enough? It could be that the roses that aren't growing are heavy feeders. Since they are on their own roots, different varieties may respond differently to soil fertility and pH, How is your soil pH? You can get a test kit at a well stocked garden center. You could give your roses a feeding of miracid if the pH is high or Miracle-gro if the pH is low. Give them one half to 1 gallon of solution depending on the size of the rose. If its fertilizer that they need you should see them looking better in a couple of weeks and then you can decide how to adjust your ferilizer program or if you have to correct the pH of your soil.

Brittie is right, water could be a problem.

Winter-damaged canes produce small, crowded leaves and blind shoots. Royal Sunset is said to be a tender rose, but I wouldn't expect that of Abe Darby in your area. You could also check the canes for canker and borers.

Probe the soil to see if there are a lot of mole tunnels or rocks.

How much light are they getting? Insufficient light can also cause stunted growth and a failure to bloom.

Also take a look for crown gall. If the plants are galled, it could be blocking nutrients and water from flowing up into the plant. Interference from tree or other hedge roots can create a water stress situation for the affected roses. Kim

Thank you for your thoughtful replies.

Lack of water is not an issue, nor is lack of fertilizer. Maybe ph is off... I decided to do a soil drench with the Bayer insect killer and also sprayed the problem plants because perhaps it is midge that is causing the lack of new growth.

I have a bee and butterfly garden so I was careful during application - glad to hear I might have to do this only once.

I'll report back if I notice new growth.

Thank you again!
Jennifer

Jennifer......

This may sound like a strange question, but did you do a perk test to make sure you had good drainage for each rose hole before you planted your roses ?

There is also a possibility, if you do deep watering weekly that the water from the other roses may be draining into the rose holes of these roses and the roses are being over-watered. I found that to be true for two roses in a long rose bed along a fence in which had a french drain in front of the rose bed. The last two roses in the bed were being over watered because the water was draining from rose hole to rose hole instead of into the french drain as planned. I cut back on deep watering those two roses and now they are coming back nicely.

Smiles,
Lyn

Check the soil with a pH meter. Check about 4 or 5 places around each bush. Sometimes, if you have fertilized well for several years, there is a section where pH gets very acidic - like 5.0. Add lime! If pH is off, the rosebush can't take up nutrients well.

Good luck. Kathy

Hi. I checked the soil to see if it was too wet and it seemed fine, didn't smell funky like overly wet soil might, so I don't think it is that.

BUT, I did check the ph w/ a rapitest meter and it is 7.0 ish around these plants and 6 to 6.5 around others. I thought 7.0 was in the OK range, but maybe not?

What do you think?

This could also be a sign that all the canes are old--wood that is a couple years old doesn't bloom as well as year old wood. I've been taking out old, non-productive canes and have been rewarded with new basal breaks. I try to do this early in the season, so the basal breaks have plenty of time to grow into big canes.

Royal Sunset takes a long while to build up in my garden. It's an absolute favorite, but he can be slow to mature. Then, if he's old, you have to selectively prune him so that he has some new wood, too. That sounds more complicated than it is, lol. He's just one to wait for, I'd say :)

I don't know if that's the problem here, but it's good to know, imho.

Hi. I found rose midge larvae on Lili Marlene today. A new shoot looked a little strange, not yet dried and burnt, but slightly off. I pulled apart the shoot and found tiny, perhaps smaller than coarse sand, white maggot-y looking things. I confirmed with photos from several websites.

I have been spraying the soil and affected plants (including Lili Marlene) every 10 days with the Bayer insect killer (says it kills grubs, too) with the assumption that this was prob. midge, but there has been absolutely no new growth on the problem roses and I still found the larvae on sprayed Lili Marlene.

I'm thinking I might need to treat all my roses and I'm worried about killing bees and butterflies. I love watching them in my garden. I'm off to research the grub granules to see if I can apply them now, and if the granules might be more effective than a soil drench/leaf spray.

I'll report back.

Very sad about this.

I've found dual action Grubex--cyfluthrin+imidicloprid granules on the ground to be moderately effective against midge--enough control to get a good bloom over several years now, but not enough eliminate canes without blooms.

While looking into midge chemical cures, I found disturbing information on merit and bees... sigh.

I found this info in the American rose Annual from 1918 on the treatment of midge at the time by Mr. Koch in Humboldt Park gardens in Chicago. I don't know where I'd get a load of tobacco stems, (ha), but I thought this organic treatment was interesting.

"He found many of the plants affected with mildew and stem-
blight, and, in 1911, rose midge had been introduced with new
plants in the three principal parks. Hybrid Perpetuals and Gruss
an Teplitz were found particularly susceptible to attacks of the
midge. After considerable experimental work, Mr. Koch adopted
mulching four inches deep with tobacco stems. It is applied
after the first summer hoeing, about mid-June, and spaded
under after frost in autumn. Where the mulch becomes thinned
or shifted in the course of the summer, additional appUcations
are made. This, he found, prevents hibernation of the pest.
Last summer but few larvae and few injuries were found. For
the greater security of other varieties, it was found necessary to
remove Gruss an Teplitz from Douglas Park entirely in 1915."

Any thoughts, my knowledgeable friends?

You know, that's really interesting.
I've heard that there's doubt that Gruss an Teplitz as we have it today isn't the original GaT.

Could be that the original was lost, in part, because of a particular susceptibility to pest problems.

Not that this helps you at all. :-(

Jeri

Applying merit to the ground doesn't seem to have any effect on the bee population--we have a variety of native bees in our yard.

That's good news Zack!!

I haven't gotten rebloom from Jude in 4-5 yrs, maybe this rose is like Gruss an Teplitz, and for the good of the garden, must be removed?

But, I found Midge maggots on the other side of my yard in Frederic Mistral, so the problem is larger than one plant.

I don't think it helps to remove plants--I think they will just move onto other plants.

I suggest applying granular insecticide to the ground as soon as it reaches the mid 70s in the early Spring and repeating every month through the growing season.

Don't prune as hard as you would normally. This allows you to cut back the rose to put undamaged buds at the top of the plant, if it is attacked by midge.